Question about admirals...

[hedgehog]

all well and good shelling out a fortune for new boats

they also need to shell out a few bob

to recruit a few more salior laddies and laddess

and they need to throw a few bob into pay in order tokeep these

much and all as I slag the Navel Service and there un natural sexual urges

they do a hell of a tough job in all weathers and in all hours of the day or night

I wouldnt be able for half the shit they put up with (not talking about there unnatural

sexual urges)

but in all seriousness its about time that the first sea lord of Irish navy went and got his

people a decent pay rise to compensate them for the amount of time spent away from

their families

well done to our Naval Personnel

BTW why isnt the top navy guy here ranked as an admiral

[Goldie fish]

Short answer: Not enough ships for an admiral.

Oh and the Navy has ships. The ships have boats.

[hedgehog]

We need 12 ships for that.

what rule does that come from

and

what about

rear admiral or even a vice admiral

[Goldie fish]

what rule does that come from

and

what about

rear admiral or even a vice admiral

From the same place that decided a colonel can't be in command of a section.

I think there is provision in the organisation of the defence forces for the rank of Rear admiral, but that is off topic.

[hedgehog]

From the same place that decided a colonel can't be in command of a section.

and that is

[Barry]

and that is

The Brits sent it over on a piece of paper

They sent it along with some bergens.

[hedgehog]

They sent it along with some bergens.

Well done

I suppose I had that coming

[Goldie fish]

A short explanation of the Naval rank structure:

Nato Code as it relates to the irish rank structure.


OF-7 =Commodore
OF-6 =Captain
OF-5 =Commander
OF-4 =Lt Commander
OF-3 =Lieutenant
OF-2 =Sub-Lieutenant
OF-1 =Ensign
OF-C =Cadet

In the US the OF-6 is a rear admiral(lower half), While the OF-7 is a Rear Admiral(upper Half). The RN has a Commodore, but no ensign.

However Our Naval service has an extra grade of officer(ensign), therefore our Commodore would be equivalent to a Rear Admiral(upper Half) in the US Navy, or a Rear Admiral in the Royal Navy.

A flotilla (from Spanish, meaning a flota of small ships, and this from French flotte), or naval flotilla, is a formation of small warships that may be part of a larger fleet. A flotilla is usually composed of a homogeneous group of the same class of warship, such as destroyers, torpedo boats, submarines, gunboats or minesweepers. Larger warships are grouped in squadrons.

A flotilla is usually commanded by a Rear Admiral, a Commodore or a Captain, depending on the importance of the command. A flotilla is often divided into two or more divisions, each of which might be commanded by the most senior Commander. A flotilla is often, but not necessarily, a permanent formation.

A naval flotilla has no direct equivalent on land, but is, perhaps, the rough equivalent in value of a brigade or regiment.

[hedgehog]

From an excellent web site

http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/trivia04.htm

[QUOTE] Naval Historical Center home page.



NAVAL HISTORICAL CENTER
WASHINGTON NAVY YARD -- 805 KIDDER BREESE SE
WASHINGTON DC 20374-5060


The Origin of the Ranks and Rank Insignia Now Used by the United States Armed Forces
Officers:
Admiral

Admiral comes from the Arabic term amir-al-bahr meaning commander of the seas. Crusaders learned the term during their encounters with the Arabs, perhaps as early as the Eleventh Century. The Sicilians and later Genoese took the first two parts of the term and used them as one word, amiral. The French and Spanish gave their sea commanders similar titles. As the word was used by people speaking Latin or Latin-based languages it gained the "d" and endured a series of different endings and spellings leading to the English spelling "admyrall" in the Fourteenth Century and to "admiral" by the Sixteenth Century.

King Edward I appointed the first English Admiral in 1297 when he named William de Leyburn "Admiral of the sea of the King of England." Sometime later the title became Lord High Admiral and appeared to be concerned with administering naval affairs -rather than commanding at sea. Admirals did become sea commanders by the Sixteenth or Seventeenth Century. When he commanded the fleet the Admiral would either be in the lead or the middle portion of the fleet. When the Admiral commanded from the middle portion of the fleet his deputy, the Vice Admiral, would be in the leading portion or van. The "vice" in Vice Admiral is a Latin word meaning deputy or one who acts in the place of another. The Vice Admiral is the Admiral's deputy or lieutenant and serves in the Admiral's place when he is absent. The British Vice Admiral also had a deputy. His post was at the rear of the fleet so instead of calling him the "Vice-Vice Admiral" his title became Rear Admiral. He was the "least important" of the flag officers so he commanded the reserves and the rear portion of the fleet. Sometimes he was called "Admiral in the rear." The British have had Vice and Rear Admirals since at least the Sixteenth Century.

Our Navy did not have any Admirals until 1862 because many people felt the title too reminiscent of royalty to be used in the republic's navy. Others saw the need for ranks above Captain. Among them John Paul Jones who pointed out that the Navy had to have officers who "ranked" with Army Generals. He also felt there must be ranks above Captain to avoid disputes among senior Captains. The various secretaries of the Navy repeatedly recommended to Congress that Admiral ranks be created because the other navies of the world used them and American senior officers were "often subjected to serious difficulties and embarrassments in the interchange of civilities with those of other nations." Congress finally authorized nine Rear Admirals on July 16, 1862, although that was probably more for the needs of the rapidly expanding Navy during the Civil War than any international considerations. Two years later Congress authorized the appointment of a Vice Admiral from among the nine Rear Admirals. That was David Glasgow Farragut. Another bill allowed the President to appoint Farragut Admiral on July 25, 1866, and David Dixon Porter Vice Admiral. When Farragut died in 1870 Porter became Admiral and Stephen C. Rowan Vice Admiral. When they died Congress did not allow the promotion of any of the Rear Admirals to succeed them so there were no more Admirals or Vice Admirals by promotion until 1915 when Congress authorized an Admiral and a Vice Admiral each for the Atlantic, Pacific and Asiatic fleets.

There was one Admiral in the interim, however. In 1899 Congress recognized George Dewey's accomplishments during the Spanish-American War by authorizing the President to appoint him Admiral of the Navy. He held that rank until he died in 1917. Nobody has since held that title. In 1944 Congress approved the five-star Fleet Admiral rank. The first to hold it were Ernest J. King, William D. Leahy and Chester W. Nimitz. The Senate confirmed their appointments December 15, 1944. The fourth Fleet Admiral, William H. Halsey, got his fifth star in December 1945. None have been appointed since.

The sleeve stripes now used by Admirals and Vice Admirals date from March 11, 1869, when the Secretary of the Navy's General Order Number 90 specified that for their "undress" uniforms Admirals would wear a two-inch stripe with three half-inch stripes above it and Vice Admirals the two-inch stripe with two half-inch stripes above it. The Rear Admiral got his two-inch stripe and one half-inch stripe in 1866. The sleeve stripes had been more elaborate. When the Rear Admiral rank started in 1862 the sleeve arrangement was three stripes of three-quarter-inch lace alternating with three stripes of quarter-inch lace. It was some ten inches from top to bottom. The Vice Admiral, of course, had even more stripes and when Farragut became Admiral in 1866 he had so many stripes they reached from his cuffs almost to his elbow. On their dress uniforms the admirals wore bands of gold embroidery of live oak leaves and acorns.

The admirals of the 1860s wore the same number of stars on their shoulders as admirals of corresponding grades do today. In 1899 the Navy's one Admiral (Dewey) and 18 Rear Admirals put on the new shoulder marks, as did the other officers when wearing their white uniforms, but kept their stars instead of repeating the sleeve cuff stripes.



The blue bits are mine

I dont see anything about so many boats = Admirals

[Goldie fish]

I think my earlier post(had you read it) would have clarified the initial question as to why we don't have admirals.

[hedgehog]

there was a lot to read

at least i highlighted the relevant bits for you

[andy]

no mention about admiral + ship numbers in the wikipedia. I think any amount would do.

[hedgehog]

I say lets promote

what ever the chaps name is

[Barry]

I say lets promote

what ever the chaps name is

Well his current title is "Flag Officer Commanding Naval Service", and nowadays Flag Officer is mostly used as the Naval equivalent of General Officer (ie it refers to Admirals), so whatshisname is really an admiral in all but title.

(And yes, before goldie starts, I am aware that a flag officer is actually an officer entitled to their own personal flag, etc etc etc)

[Barry]

A Commodore is the equivalent of a Brigadier General

Depends on how you define Flag Officer, I suppose. From my short glance at google, most navies seem to consider Commodore as not being a flag officer rank, but obviously the NS do (as seen in the title "Flag Officer Commanding Naval Service")

General Officer Barry.

I highly approve of this sort of talk.