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Silver
3rd January 2003, 18:46
I posted this topic on Frank's board last night -

I suspect that it is Smithy's intention not to re-equip the Air Corps with medium lift helis for SAR duties. He once made a comment/quote to the effect that "...the Air Corps cannot expect to get both.." (i.e. medium lift helis AND jets.)

I reckon his plan is to allow the Coast Guard assume full coverage for heli SAR and therefore the Dept of Marine will have to fund this - not the Dept of Defence.
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Our "friend", fianna fail ,responded saying that I was correct, and he even went on to state that the Air Corps will be equipped with "Attack Helicopters" in the future for RRF missions !

andy
4th January 2003, 23:44
Air Corps to get new planes to protect Euro 2004 summit

NEW Swiss-built aircraft armed with rockets and machine guns are to protect Euro summits and other VIP events in Ireland from terrorist attack.

In a major boost to the anti-terrorist capabilities of the Defence Forces, eight armed trainers are to be ordered in a €40m deal. They will be used for armed patrolling of air-exclusion zones, as well as training duties at Baldonnel.

Defence Minister Michael Smith is due to announce in the New Year that the Pilatus PC-9M trainer has been selected for the Air Corps, to replace Marchetti aircraft bought in the 1970s. Contract negotiations are almost complete.

More than 230 PC-9Ms, which the company claims offer "jet capabilities at turboprop costs" and come with "Swiss-made precision and quality", are in use by 12 air forces.

Army officers had warned that because of our largely "non-existent" air defence there would be "public embarrassment" if Ireland had to host a Euro summit, as we would be unable to protect our airspace.

But the new trainers, being purchased at a cost of about €5m each, will provide a limited air-defence capability for the Defence Forces, which will also deploy anti-aircraft guns and surface-to-air missiles, for the Euro 2004 summit.

Don Lavery

Silver
5th January 2003, 16:09
Ok, andy.
But what has that got to do with the topic - SAR vs Jets.

Silver
5th January 2003, 16:26
SAR vs Jets?:confused:

hptmurphy
5th January 2003, 16:43
ok lets save a few qiud.If the eurobuddies want a week on the piss in 2004 and are worried about their safety let them bring their own air defence.
There not short a few planes.If push came to shove we could lease them complete with crews.Even if smithy paid cash upfront for the PC(s there is no way in hell taht the unit would be fully operational before the summit.Who are theses people trying to fool.
Better idea altogether lets put the wholee military aviation needs of the entire country up for tender.

Bailer
6th January 2003, 09:18
<FONT fACE="TAHOMA" color="royalblue"><b>Sorry Murph But I'd Prefer If we Did Spend a rediculous amount of Money on New Jets for the European heads to go on the Piss at least we'd get to keep them Maybe we can get a few Cheap say a few Harriers or something else (you know a week on the beer in Temple Bar (or 6 months) in exchange for say 10 Jets)

</b></font>

Big Al
6th January 2003, 09:20
at temple bar prices? that would be the AC's budget for the next ten years!

Come-quickly
6th January 2003, 12:00
Ireland is going to keep isolating itself with it's idiotic defence policy, just like in the sixties when we were internationally critiscised for staying outside of NATO while failing to develop as a credible military neutral.
In my area of non military expertise it's the same story spend a tenner saving a fiver and make the citizen suffer for the pleasure...i.e. Ireland should have had care in the community but corruption and costcutting mean that the elderly and infirm are largely dumped in huge industrial scale homes wherein they are often deprived of their human dignity...
And people thought I got angry about defence
Eventually all the diplomatic leverage that our selfishness and helplessness culture has generated will be turned against us and the people will suffer even more....we are not as popular as people like to think, and I can't name a European country other than England that would actually bother to defend us if conventional ADFs were needed, and even the latters latent paternalism might not be enough

FLYING RIFLEMAN
6th January 2003, 14:20
To get back to the original topic at the stage we are at with regard to trainers for a squadron sized fighter force we're going to be starting from scratch. Its crazy! We need a two type minimum to get to that stage, an advanced trainer(turbo prop) and the jets them selves which to do as you know would cost to much.
The sar helos would need to be backed up by new trainers/more gazelles.
To have to make a choice in itself is crazy, funds should be allocated for both programs.

Is IR 237 being replaced?