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easyrider
20th March 2008, 12:16
Tracks are better!

Wheels are cheaper!

Tracks never get bogged down!

Wheels are faster!

Tracks...!!!

Wheels...!!!

... At which point the civil servant chairing the meeting, noting that it was past lunchtime, proposed a compromise:

http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/47198/kgbm-5.jpg

GoneToTheCanner
20th March 2008, 17:08
Looks like a BTR-60 had unlawful intercourse with a BMP-1! Didn't the yanks and germans do the half-track thingy a while ago? M-3 anyone?
regards
GttC

Fireplace
20th March 2008, 19:20
Looks like a BTR-60 had unlawful intercourse with a BMP-1!
GttC

There's no shortage of strange goings-on in Russia

http://englishrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/cooltractor.jpg

California Tanker
20th March 2008, 20:39
Not quite the same, but this sort of vehicle, the wheel-cum-track would give you the option of either only wheels or only tracks.

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/GreatBritain/GB-VickersArmstrongWheel-cum-Track.jpg

http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/Pictures/adg10.jpg

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/spain/CS10.jpg

I'm not counting BT tanks here, either.

NTM

easyrider
28th March 2008, 11:14
Cross a Land Rover with a Scorpion and you get a Centaur:

http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/Verschiedenes/Centaur_P1.jpg

Fireplace
29th March 2008, 01:36
Panhards we never had...

1929 AMC P 16 modèle 29

http://www.chars-francais.net/new/images/stories/galery/1929_amc-p16/p16_m29_003.jpg

http://www.chars-francais.net/new/images/stories/galery/1929_amc-p16/p16_m29_001.jpg

1951 EBR PANHARD FL11 75mm

http://www.chars-francais.net/new/images/stories/galery/1954_ebr75/ebr75%20007.jpg

Lordinajamjar
29th March 2008, 08:06
!

[I]Wheels are faster!




I wouldn't be so sure about that. :biggrin:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=v9NJZyIXeqY&feature=related

The following are unmanned fully computer controlled concept designs based on the RipSaw 1.

http://www.howeandhowe.com/snow/PAV1/Full%20Ripsaw%20MS1%20minigun%2010.12e.bmp

http://www.howeandhowe.com/snow/PAV1/Full%20Ripsaw%20MS1%20minigun%2010%20e.bmp

The Sultan
29th March 2008, 10:26
That youtube link is pretty cool!

GoneToTheCanner
29th March 2008, 11:01
Rant mode on: quite why the DF is so against have tracked AFVs of any kind is beyond me.It seems the horseowners of the Curragh have more sway than the needs of the troops.Wheels are nice but there are some terrain types where wheels just will not cut it.In the Falklands( which is basically Ireland moved South by a few thousand miles) the AMLs bogged down but the Scorpions covered the ground.
regards
GttC

DeV
29th March 2008, 13:26
Tracks are more expensive, harder to maintain and cause more damage to the road surface.

Fireplace
29th March 2008, 13:57
Tracks are more expensive, harder to maintain and cause more damage to the road surface.

It's worth noting that Soviet Union brought most ot their infantry and reconnaissance units around in wheeled vehicles - BTR60/70/80, BRDM - even after they developed the BMP. The French are to replace the AMX10-P with the VBCI. Despite the economic and maintenance advantages there will always be a place for tracked IFV/reconnaissance vehicles, albeit a smaller percentage than wheels. Also of significance, the Soviets only trusted tracks(PT-76 and BMP-1) to carry heavier guns, something the Russians are continuing with the BMP-3, BMD-4 and Sprut-sd.

California Tanker
29th March 2008, 17:11
Also of significance, the Soviets only trusted tracks(PT-76 and BMP-1) to carry heavier guns, something the Russians are continuing with the BMP-3, BMD-4 and Sprut-sd.

In fairness, BTR-90M carries the same 100mm/30mm/7.62mm combo as BMP-3.
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/btr90-4.jpg

NTM

Fireplace
29th March 2008, 20:20
The BTR-90 with the BMP-3 turret would be as good as any wheeled vehicle. Only small numbers with the BMP-2 turret have as yet entered service in Russia, unconfirmed reports say Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan have also ordered them. At this stage the variant with the BMP-3 turret is likely to be primarily aimed at the export market(especially countries that have the BMP-3).

http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Venik/p1192730.jpg

AMV with BMP-3 turret

http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen_orient/Emirats_arabe/IDEX_2003_Pictures_Gallery/IDEX_2007/images/IDEX_2007_Dynamic_Demonstration_006.jpg

Victor
30th March 2008, 16:55
In fairness, BTR-90M carries the same 100mm/30mm/7.62mm combo as BMP-3.The "gun for everyone in the audience" approach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-3

Primary armament: 100mm gun/launcher 2A70, 30mm autocannon 2A72
Ammunition: conventional HE-Frag shells (40 rounds) and
9M117 (AT-10 Stabber) ATGMs 8 ATGM are carried and
2A72 dual feed autocannon with 500 rounds.

Secondary armament: 3×7.62mm PKT machine guns,
Ammunition: each 2,000 rounds

Also on board are:
6 smoke grenade launchers 81mm 902V "Tucha".
one RPG-7 and
five RPG-18's and
two MANPADS "Strela-3" or "Igla" and
10 hand grenades F-1.

AND

7 passengers

Fireplace
30th March 2008, 18:14
On the smaller BMD

Gross combat weight, kg 13,200
Weight of universal fighting compartment, kg 3,200
Personnel capacity (crew and mounted troops) 7
Ammunition load:
100mm 3UBK23-3 rounds (guided munitions) 4
100mm 3UOF19 rounds (unguided munitions) 18
30mm rounds, including 3UBR8 350
7.62mm cartridges 2,000

Paratroopers must be very small in Russia!

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/expo/interpoltech04/IMG_0657_.jpg

Goldie fish
30th March 2008, 18:25
I'm wondering what kind of ammo stowage that turret has. Hardly any extra space behind the crew space, where main gun ammo is usually stowed.

Fireplace
30th March 2008, 22:51
I'm wondering what kind of ammo stowage that turret has. Hardly any extra space behind the crew space, where main gun ammo is usually stowed.

The autoloader carries 22 rounds, another 18 stowed under the commander and gunner.

http://www.kbptula.ru/eng/bron/light/bakhcha.htm

Fireplace
30th March 2008, 23:37
40 of these Sprut-SDs please!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-CNASN-G1U

Damn YouTube won't let me embed it. :mad:

Goldie fish
31st March 2008, 01:53
The autoloader carries 22 rounds, another 18 stowed under the commander and gunner.

http://www.kbptula.ru/eng/bron/light/bakhcha.htm

Fancy.
I take it only small people need apply to operate the turret.

GoneToTheCanner
31st March 2008, 08:23
Hi there
A missile called a "Stabber"! Must be from Limerick then:)
regards
GttC

paul g
31st March 2008, 20:37
It's worth noting that Soviet Union brought most ot their infantry and reconnaissance units around in wheeled vehicles - BTR60/70/80, BRDM - even after they developed the BMP. The French are to replace the AMX10-P with the VBCI. Despite the economic and maintenance advantages there will always be a place for tracked IFV/reconnaissance vehicles, albeit a smaller percentage than wheels. Also of significance, the Soviets only trusted tracks(PT-76 and BMP-1) to carry heavier guns, something the Russians are continuing with the BMP-3, BMD-4 and Sprut-sd

its also intresting that the British FREs programme is divided between a wheeled utility (Boxer, Piranha V or VBCI) vehicle, but a tracked reconnaissance vehicle ( Cv90 and Ascod).