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  • UK TA Drivers Hours

    Interesting from UK
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Originally posted by Steyr Fan View Post
    Interesting from UK
    Indeed it is, Steyr Fan.

    Shows a level of cop on from the British Government

    But it isn't in the legislation here as yet, so RDF drivers could still be feasibly done
    for exceeding the driving hours requirements in a given week - and probably DoD
    aswell, for putting them in that position ?

    (.....waiting for Luchi to jump into the pond.......... )
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

    Comment


    • #3
      It is not an exemption but more of a fudge.

      This document infact does exactly what all RDF drivers are supposed to do but makes it officia were as here we can fudge.

      The Tacho regs do not apply to military vehicles ANYWHERE in the EU or the EETA. SO you can do your weeks work and then stil drive military vehicles.

      For professional drivers at the end of your military service period you then Must take a an 11 hour daily rest. I'm sure employers will love that considering the number of hauliers that try to make the early ferries.

      Then 6 days after your training you must take the 45hr rest which again shortens your working week. All employers be happy the BA are eating into your employee's availability.

      But RDF drivers need not worry. The DF ignores all this legislation. And since we are voulenteers the employer can ignore it too.

      By the way, we talk about drivers but if the HSA were to enforce the legislation governing working hours everyone would be in a similar boat to drivers.
      Last edited by luchi; 1 March 2009, 14:52.
      Without supplies no army is brave.

      —Frederick the Great,

      Instructions to his Generals, 1747

      Comment


      • #4
        what legislation in particular do the MA ignore in this regard Luchi

        are Tachographs on Military vehicles disabled or merely ignored

        and what about the new digital Tachograph card- who holds the master card
        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
        Are full of passionate intensity.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hedgie this has been discussed.

          Lets start with.

          MOST RDF drivers hold a licence to drive a vehicle constructed to carry a maximum of 16 passengers.

          The man 4x2 is constructed to carry 20.

          Thats one of the basic ones.

          If you want to you can look through the vehicles thread and see others.

          But I should correct what I said, I already noticed an error that has been corrected.

          In this instance it is the employees and employers that are ignoring the tacho regs. If a professional driver does his weeks work and then serves with the RDF (paid) at the week end then at the end of the period of service that driver should not drive until they have taken their mandatory rest period.

          So really above should read
          >>The MA in this instance has NO responsibility and so can ignore all this legislation
          Last edited by luchi; 1 March 2009, 15:05.
          Without supplies no army is brave.

          —Frederick the Great,

          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

          Comment


          • #6
            The DF ignores all this legislation
            what legislation
            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
            Are full of passionate intensity.

            Comment


            • #7
              BTW Hedgie I reread your question.

              Tachos are not disconnected. Strangely enough although military vehicles are exempt from the tacho regs, if a vehicle is fitted whit a tacho it must be in a servicable condition.
              If it is a card or disk type tacho then the card or disk can be left out. If it is the new electronic type then it must be servicable but there is no requirement to down load data.
              Without supplies no army is brave.

              —Frederick the Great,

              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry I was typing
                Road traffic acts
                - main act (maximum driving hours)
                - construction and use of vehicles
                - licencing of drivers

                Do you want the SI numbers or will you look them up yourself?
                Without supplies no army is brave.

                —Frederick the Great,

                Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by luchi View Post
                  Sorry I was typing
                  Road traffic acts
                  - main act (maximum driving hours)
                  - construction and use of vehicles
                  - licencing of drivers

                  Do you want the SI numbers or will you look them up yourself?

                  NO thanks - the reason I was asking was for some obsecure reason I was reading this

                  European Communities (Road Transport) (Recording Equipment) Regulations 2006
                  1. The purpose of these Regulations is to give effect to Council Regulation No. 3821/85/EEC as amended by Council Regulation No. 2135/98/EC and Commission Regulation (EC) No. 1360/2002 on recording equipment in road transport. The Regulations provide for the introduction and enforcement of digital tachograph technology that will gradually replace the existing analogue tachograph devices used to record information on driving times, breaks and rest periods for professional drivers.
                  or to you and me

                  S.I. No. 089 of 2006

                  20/02/2006 [No. of pages 28] [FL12006]
                  European law, Regulation, Road Traffic, Transport

                  and reading your piece

                  The Tacho regs do not apply to military vehicles ANYWHERE in the EU or the EETA. SO you can do your weeks work and then stil drive military vehicles

                  and

                  Strangely enough although military vehicles are exempt from the tacho regs

                  the exemptions from the Tachograph rules as contained in the SI- are as follows

                  Exemptions

                  4. The following categories of vehicles are exempted from the provisions of the Council Regulation in respect of carriage by road effected solely within the State:


                  (a) vehicles used for carrying passengers, which by virtue of their construction and equipment are suitable for carrying not more than 17 persons, including the driver, and are intended for that purpose;

                  (b) vehicles used by public authorities to provide public services which are not in competition with professional road hauliers;

                  (c) vehicles used by agricultural, horticultural, forestry or fishery undertakings for carrying goods within a 50 kilometre radius of the place where the vehicle is normally based, including local administrative areas the centres of which are situated within that radius;

                  (d) vehicles used for carrying animal waste or carcasses which are not intended for human consumption;

                  (e) vehicles used for carrying live animals between farms and local markets or from such markets to a local slaughter house;

                  (f) vehicles used -
                  (i) as shops at local markets,

                  (ii) for door to door selling,


                  (iii) for mobile banking, exchange or saving transactions,

                  (iv) for. worship,

                  (v) for the lending of books, records or cassettes, or
                  (vi) for cultural events or exhibitions,
                  and which are specially fitted for such uses;
                  (g) vehicles for the carriage. of goods, which have an unladen weight not exceeding 3,048 kilogrammes, used for carrying material or equipment for the use of the driver in the course of his or her work within a 50 kilometre radius of the place where the vehicle is normally based:. but only if driving the vehicle does not constitute the main activity of the driver;
                  (h) vehicles operating exclusively on islands not exceeding 2,300 square kilometres in area, which are not linked to the mainland of the State by a. bridge, ford or tunnel open for use by motor vehicles;

                  (i) vehicles used for the carriage of goods, which have an unladen weight not exceeding 1,524 kilogrammes, and are propelled by means of gas produced on the vehicle or by means of electricity;
                  (j) vehicles used for driving instruction with a view to obtaining a driving licence: but only if a vehicle so used or any trailer or semi-trailer drawn is not carrying out a journey in connection with the carriage of goods or passengers;

                  (k) tractors used exclusively for agricultural and forestry work

                  Now I really cant see where the DF have been granted an exempted either implied or implicit in that regulation-

                  so as a Soldier with an AF 154

                  I am a bit confused

                  as to whether or not the Tachograph rules apply
                  Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                  Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                  The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                  The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                  The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                  Are full of passionate intensity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The DF may ignore it but can RDF drivers employers?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      the DF cannot ignore anything

                      unless they are mentioned in one of the exemptions then they

                      are as bound by the regs as Mr Trucker in civy street-

                      my point was and still is

                      the SI contains offences which are prosecutable-

                      If I am I/C of Tpt and one of my dvrs is involved in a fatal crash

                      and the Gardai ask for his Tach readings

                      I cant turn around and say - well umm umm well ummm
                      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                      Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                      The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                      The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                      The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                      Are full of passionate intensity.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hedgehog View Post

                        so as a Soldier with an AF 154

                        I am a bit confused

                        as to whether or not the Tachograph rules apply
                        Exemption 4(b)vehicles used by public authorities to provide public services which are not in competition with professional road hauliers;

                        Well as we all know we are in the public service, and we're definitely not in competition with the road hauliers so there's the exemption, as provided by your good self
                        CRIME SCENE INSTIGATOR

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Nope

                          we are not a public authority

                          and we dont provide public service
                          Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                          Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                          The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                          The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                          The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                          Are full of passionate intensity.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The SI itself gives the hint at the end.
                            In a prosecution for an offence under these Regulations it shall be presumed until the contrary is proved that -
                            (a) none of the exceptions to the application of the Council Regulation contained in Article 4, or paragraphs (1) and (2) of Article 13 and Article 14.1 of Council Regulation No. 3820/85/EEC of 20 December 19854 is applicable to the case, and
                            (b) none of the exceptions contained in Regulation 4 is applicable to the case.
                            21.


                            See http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...5R3820:EN:HTML

                            Article 4

                            This Regulation shall not apply to carriage by:

                            1. vehicles used for the carriage of goods where the maximum permissible weight of the vehicle, including any trailer or semi-trailer, does not exceed 3,5 tonnes;

                            2. vehicles used for the carriage of passengers which, by virtue of their construction and equipement, are suitable for carrying not more than nine persons, including the driver, and are intended for that purpose;

                            3. vehicles used for the carriage of passengers on regular services where the route covered by the service in question does not exceed 50 kilometres;

                            4. vehicles with a maximum authorized speed not exceeding 30 kilometres per hour;

                            5. vehicles used by or under the control of the armed services, civil defence, fire services, and forces responsible for maintaining public order;

                            6. vehicles used in connection with the sewerage, flood protection, water, gas and electricity services, highway maintenance and control, refuse collection and disposal, telegraph and telephone services, carriage of postal articles, radio and television broadcasting and the detection of radio or television transmitters or receivers;

                            7. vehicles used in emergencies or rescue operations;

                            8. specialized vehicles used for medical purposes;

                            9. vehicles transporting circus and fun-fair equipment;

                            10. specialized breakdown vehicles;

                            11. vehicles undergoing road tests for technical development, repair or maintenance purposes, and new or rebuilt vehicles which have not yet been put into service;

                            12. vehicles used for non-commercial carriage of goods for personal use;

                            13. vehicles used for milk collection from farms and the return to farms of milk containers or milk products intended for animal feed.



                            HTH

                            T
                            Last edited by trellheim; 1 March 2009, 20:06.
                            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ah trell you beat me to it. I was going to wait till tomorrow when I would have the relevant legislation at hand!!

                              S.I. No. 392/1986: this gave effect to Council Regulation No. 3820/85/EEC to which trell refers.

                              This is still in effect. The exemptions that HH refers to are in addition to exemptions given by article 4 above.

                              So as I said they ignore this because they can.

                              As you say Hedgie the DF is not a public (or local) authority. So they can't authorise learner drivers to drive on the public road but they do.

                              There is much that happens, as you well know, that you will find dificult to find "authorised" in legislation.

                              Without supplies no army is brave.

                              —Frederick the Great,

                              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                              Comment

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