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Gunner
15th March 2009, 23:02
have a look here
no comment

hptmurphy
15th March 2009, 23:45
My first reaction is that is Bv202.

My instant reaction knowing you.. you have purchased one. Given it has an irish Reg its privately owned and you either bought it as part of a military vehicles gruop of just for your own amusement

ias
15th March 2009, 23:45
The first and third photos are of a BV 206? Has their role, and quantity purchased, been released yet? Do we know who the previous operators were?

Gunner
15th March 2009, 23:56
I think 5 this one has Irish Camo been applied to Wrong green base
No I could not afford a "new" BV ex war stock never used

I have some more pics of it if you want to see


Gunner

ias
16th March 2009, 00:00
Yes please!

Gunner
16th March 2009, 00:11
1st set

pym
16th March 2009, 00:12
Are these the new vehicles for the Air Defence regiment? :)

Gunner
16th March 2009, 00:13
more

Gunner
16th March 2009, 00:15
last
no comment

pym
16th March 2009, 00:19
Could be a folded Giraffe on top, but I'm not qualified to know.

I'm sure we'll be finding out soon enough.

Great pics, thank you!

Connaught Stranger
16th March 2009, 07:01
Nice pictures, thanks for posting.

Hopefully its not hijacked to get some lard-assed political around in the snow :tongue:

Connaught Stranger.:biggrin:

ias
16th March 2009, 09:05
Great photos, many thanks!

These vehicles are unarmoured, correct?

DeV
16th March 2009, 09:15
Doesn't look like the Giraffe currently in service on the MAN.

Unarmoured (hint look at the windows)

Gunner
16th March 2009, 10:00
some more info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandvagn_206

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72RDKRxxGfk

gunner

Gunner
16th March 2009, 10:07
Sweden, 1970's, Hagglunds, a large industrial manufacturer, won a contract to build a military motorcycle. Husqvarna took over the production of the Hagglunds designed motorcycle

Gunner

ias
16th March 2009, 10:08
My understsanding is that only the BV206S is armoured, this also has a reconfigured front.

concussion
16th March 2009, 12:43
Why is it registered as 1993?

Gunner
16th March 2009, 13:05
as 1993

no the year it is aquired

gunner

hptmurphy
16th March 2009, 18:21
Interestingly enough my post about the other potential owners has ben removed ..hmmm

Truck Driver
16th March 2009, 19:31
Yep, spotted these twice in the DFTC area. First time on the back of a low loader parked at a garage in the Newbridge area well known to truckers, and second time, on the road near Kilcullen - and by, those things can move !

Surprised me that there's a steering wheel, given that it's a tracked vehicle

Goldie fish
16th March 2009, 19:37
Its articulated....

Truck Driver
16th March 2009, 19:45
Its articulated....

I must be brain dead... :rolleyes:
(no, a reply to that comment is NOT needed.... :smile:)

Cheers for that, Goldie

mugs
16th March 2009, 20:14
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4176&d=1237162497

TV/Radar Screens ???

Goldie fish
16th March 2009, 22:06
Sky+

paul
16th March 2009, 22:21
Them screens reminded me of :biggrin:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HXKOsajNZY4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HXKOsajNZY4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXKOsajNZY4

California Tanker
17th March 2009, 21:50
Surprised me that there's a steering wheel, given that it's a tracked vehicle

Why can not a tracked vehicle have a steering wheel?

Just thinking M113A3, M3 Bradley, M60 tank, even the old Bren Gun Carriers had a steering wheel...

http://abqscalemodelers.com/Bovington_British_Bren_Gun_Carrier_1.jpg

NTM

hptmurphy
17th March 2009, 23:45
think wing!

turbocalves
18th March 2009, 00:04
i wanna bren carrier....

fred the red
18th March 2009, 03:28
Just give it to the biggest bloke in the section :biggrin:

turbocalves
18th March 2009, 12:54
Just give it to the biggest bloke in the section :biggrin:

:biggrin:

but on a slightly serious note, i got a go in a willys/willis jeep a few years ago, and it was deadly, really nippy, and no seat belts,

but i always wanted a go in a bren carrier, just looks fun!

and there was 113000 of them built, so i reckon i may get a chance someday!

paul g
18th March 2009, 14:28
From Janes

The Giraffe 50AT-search radar and C3I system was developed by the then Ericsson Microwave Systems (now part of Saab AB) under a contract placed by the Norwegian Army in 1983.The first prototype system was delivered to the Norwegian Army in 1987 for extensive trials and, in 1989, a production order was placed valued at SKr 615 million. First production systems were delivered to the Norwegian Army in 1992.For the Norwegian requirement, the Giraffe system has been repackaged and installed in the Swedish Alvis Hägglunds Bv 206 all-terrain vehicle. In addition, it also incorporates many improvements to meet Norwegian operational requirements.The system is also referred to as the Norwegian Army Low-Level Air Defence System (NALLADS) or the NO/MPY-1 radar system.Used only by the Norwegian Army in conjunction with Saab Bofors Dynamics RBS 70 and Brazilian surface-to-air missile systems.Most users of the Saab Giraffe radar have the system installed in a container mounted on the rear of a two- or three-axle truck.

Victor
18th March 2009, 16:53
50km radar range is an improvement, yes?

http://www.one35th.com/attc/bv_spec.htm

Deployed pic here: http://www.segurancaedefesa.com/Opportunities_BrzDefMkt.htm

Data sheet here (page 7-17): http://www.scribd.com/doc/12231115/Worldwide-Equipment-guide

paul g
18th March 2009, 17:50
I seem to remember that some of the old Bren gun carriers were sold off to Bord na Mona

concussion
18th March 2009, 19:05
25% increase in range (50km from 40km) - thanks for the scribd link.

hptmurphy
18th March 2009, 21:57
I seem to remember that some of the old Bren gun carriers were sold off to Bord na Mona

Correct

Goldie fish
18th March 2009, 21:59
So since when are we buying second hand Military vehicles?

Does this mean we are finally going to buy those leopards that have been sitting waiting for us?

concussion
18th March 2009, 22:26
I suppose because it was a small number of vehicles with a quite specialised role. The DF also recently bought X number of Y's second hand.

turbocalves
18th March 2009, 22:29
I suppose because it was a small number of vehicles with a quite specialised role. The DF also recently bought X number of Y's second hand.

is this the X and Y thats in an cos???

concussion
18th March 2009, 22:30
I dunno, haven't seen the latest issue - what are the Y's mentioned in said publication?

turbocalves
18th March 2009, 22:31
mortars

concussion
18th March 2009, 22:33
Nope. Were they second hand? I had assumed they were new, but there you go.

turbocalves
18th March 2009, 22:35
they are second hand, but they were, war stores or moth balled or some such, so they are pretty much new...

paul g
18th March 2009, 23:03
So since when are we buying second hand Military vehicles?

Does this mean we are finally going to buy those leopards that have been sitting waiting for us?


Well, they were really bought for their radar equipment. The EL/70, Leyland DAF, Comet abd Churchill tanks, Peacocks, 25 pounders, Vampires, Fougas and most of the 105mm all had one previous owner

Assume references to X and Y mean this.

Turkey
18th March 2009, 23:27
Well, they were really bought for their radar equipment. The EL/70, Leyland DAF, Comet abd Churchill tanks, Peacocks, 25 pounders, Vampires, Fougas and most of the 105mm all had one previous owner




Loads of stuff in the past was previously owned, not sure if all the Vampires were, but was'ent there some directive there about 6-7 years ago that only new stuff would be purchased in the future...I think it was in connection with the PC-9m purchase...

turbocalves
19th March 2009, 12:59
Well, they were really bought for their radar equipment. The EL/70, Leyland DAF, Comet abd Churchill tanks, Peacocks, 25 pounders, Vampires, Fougas and most of the 105mm all had one previous owner

Assume references to X and Y mean this.

105 were new, short barrels were second hand,

and X and Y arent moratrs......
apparently

fred the red
19th March 2009, 14:59
I hate algebra.:confused:

ias
19th March 2009, 20:14
Anyone know what engine is in these?

Aidan
20th March 2009, 09:08
136hp OM603.950 Merc is the standard fit in the 206D - so I presume that's what these have?

Truck Driver
20th March 2009, 13:01
Why can not a tracked vehicle have a steering wheel?

Was thinking along the lines of a Caterpillar tracked earthmover. These type of vehicles
typically use a pair of levers for controlling the tracks - and a similar arrangement in some
tanks aswell, in the past - dunno about the present day though......

Goldie fish
20th March 2009, 20:12
But this vehicle is articulated. Consider them not as tracks, but as 4 wheels. The steering system is more like what you'd see on one of those Earthmoving dump trucks, articulated behind the cab..

luchi
20th March 2009, 20:57
Really with modern control technology you could nearly request wif you wanted stering wheel, levers or joy-stick

Scorpy
9th April 2009, 02:52
They've been in and out of Baldonnel recently. Thought initially when I saw the radar that they were Giraffe, but the boom length and dish are different. Must do more snooping.

concussion
9th April 2009, 10:31
Did they look like this?
http://foto.terpe.lt/inkelti/20080131/Girafe_isskleistas.jpg

That's the Giraffe 50, different dish and shorter mast length than the current truck-mounted unit.
http://www.nome.no/radar/airdefence.html

mugs
12th April 2009, 14:16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVFfhTmr2-o&feature=related

DeV
25th May 2009, 18:21
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/showpost.php?p=254069&postcount=155

Victor
28th May 2009, 18:51
Yay! We can now adequately defend one target from helicopters. :smile:

warthog
9th June 2009, 00:23
can we mount a GPMG or 40mm on these for defense?

knocker
25th June 2009, 20:07
apologies if its already been stated, are the missiles used with these vehicles & systems fire and forget or are they guided onto a target ?

Goldie fish
25th June 2009, 20:11
Depends on the missile. SRAAW is fire and forget, but not really guided, but still considered a missile...even if it is more of a Single use Recoilless rifle. Javelin is fire and forget.

paul g
25th June 2009, 20:24
The Giraffe Radar will be used with the RBS-70, which is laser guided.

DeV
25th June 2009, 20:25
RBS70 is laser guided (firer has to keep target in sights)

knocker
27th June 2009, 19:11
Any idea why the new vehicles & equipment arent being used durning the air defence week at gormanstown ?

Come-quickly
27th June 2009, 21:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ1wH7Oet_w&feature=related

Would this be the upgraded system that various aircraft botherers have been anticipating then?

Hitting ground targets sounds like expensive fun.

Jetjock
27th June 2009, 22:16
Any idea why the new vehicles & equipment arent being used durning the air defence week at gormanstown ?

No live RBS firing in this neck of the woods. ADR members have gone to Sweden in the past to let loose some nearly expired missiles.

Maybe the new radars will get a run out in Gormo for range control etc.

The Flycatcher is a short ranged fire control radar for the EL70, absolutely necessary for the shoot, but the Giraffe is a search and track radar used at longer ranges and does not guide the missile onto the target-it merely sees the target and sends information on that target to the best located remote firing site to engage. Firing live RBS rounds is an expensive/stock depleting exercise.

concussion
27th June 2009, 23:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ1wH7Oet_w&feature=related

Would this be the upgraded system that various aircraft botherers have been anticipating then?

Hitting ground targets sounds like expensive fun.

Love it :biggrin:

Incidentally, anyone know what the cost of a Mk2 RBS 70 missile is compared with Bolide and Javelin AT?

Edit: Also Ireland does not have a big enough range for an RBS live shoot.

Warthog: A 40 mm would be way too big to mount - unless you mean a 40mm grenade launcher for local ground defence??

GoneToTheCanner
28th June 2009, 16:16
There's a strange logic there. Buy a weapon that you claim you can't fire on your own soil and then spend thousands sending troops to the manufacturer's facility to do the same, whilst another missile maker, based on the same island, can happily fire his products at will. Why not ship the missile and it's operators to the Navy's Danger Area off the SW coast and fire it there? No danger of collateral damage.
regards
GttC

Goldie fish
28th June 2009, 16:48
But then, you'd have to fire your own missiles...

concussion
28th June 2009, 17:30
GttC - your guess is as good as mine...

Jetjock
28th June 2009, 18:34
It was the first ever live firing of the RBS-70 by the Irish Army..it makes sense to go to the company range and get the know-how of the manufacturer.

ZULU
28th June 2009, 18:37
I thought that would have been a standard practise when aquiring the weapon system BEFORE you bought it!?

concussion
28th June 2009, 21:50
Fair point Zulu, however there is a full simulator in the Curragh so maybe this is the reason they waited until the missiles were near expiry before firing them.

knocker
28th June 2009, 22:03
great clip from come quickly - i take it the recent purchases were the improved missiles ? its quite a system, with the radars and the number of launchers the country is comong dangeroulsy close to having some sort of air defence

Come-quickly
28th June 2009, 22:34
Enough to be able to deploy a troop overseas without denuding the "national air defence"

Victor
29th June 2009, 18:57
Using public information only.
Incidentally, anyone know what the cost of a Mk2 RBS 70 missile is compared with Bolide and Javelin AT?Original RBS70s bought in the 1980s cost something like IR£60,000 each - I don't know if that is rounds only or whether it included launchers, training, simulators, etc.

That translates as about €80,000 and I get the impression it hasn't changed much. The recent buy is rather distorted as they bought an awful lot of other stuff a the same time.

The initial contract for Javelin was about €100,000 each (70+ missiles for €7m+), although the value of the dollar has dropped since, so you can now get more bang for you buck (well euro :)).

RoyalGreenJacket
29th June 2009, 19:46
The Hagglunds BV-206 is also an excellent platform - they literally go anywhere - I've been driving them since 1994 and took one to the Falkland Islands.

It's good kit you have there lads.

RGJ

GoneToTheCanner
29th June 2009, 20:18
Hi there
Firing them at the manufacturer's site, when the project is new, is all very well but not making provision to fire them at home is dumb, especially if you have to continue funding trips to Sweden. Junket lovers might like it but it's inherently wasteful.Plenty of other Armies using seawards-facing ranges for firing artillery and other long-range weapons.Perhaps it's time for a fundamental upgrade of ranges and the usage of them, given that the DF is getting more guided weapons into it's inventory as time goes on.
regards
GttC

paul g
29th June 2009, 20:42
Speaking from ignorance, but do they have sutiable target drones for the RBS-70.

Jetjock
29th June 2009, 20:48
Maybe something to do with the once in a blue moon nature of firing them, rather than it being an annual event. It is a cost orientated practice and it is not until a batch has reached the end of their storage life that they have been fired in the past. Due to the relatively low stock numbers and the market orientated "we'll buy when they are going cheap" erratic nature of stock replenishment(wise enough in this benign security environment), then there could be anything up to 10 years between actual live firing.

Upgrading a range and buying suitable targets wouldn't be cost effective in that scenario. If there was an annual firing "junket" to Sweden then there would be a case for upgrading the ranges and hiring in someone like FRS Aviation to tow targets, but compare that to the relatively inexpensive cost of filling a Casa with a couple of missile teams and launchers to Vikingland once every few years.

Due to cost,live training with guided weapons is alays going to be a rare occurance and dictated by the imminent prospect of the missiles themselves becoming unusable. Thats why sims were bought-to remove the need and cost of requiring actual firings to qualify/stay current on expensive weapons like the RBS/Jav, and it's not really a bad practice.

concussion
29th June 2009, 20:57
No drones, but the Swedes simply use a towed drogue. Granted a Pilatus is probably the fastest aircraft we have though.

Jetjock
29th June 2009, 21:47
You dont necessarily need a fast aircraft to tow drogues. A small slow target is representative of a larger faster moving aircraft.

concussion
29th June 2009, 22:03
Yep, for the most part a smaller target with a high crossing speed/rate of change of bearing (don't know the proper term) will do. However, given the nature of short range AD systems, most targets will be approaching with smaller changes in bearing so a faster target would be desirable. I'll take anything I can get though!!

Jetjock
29th June 2009, 22:11
I'll take anything I can get though!!

God help the Gormo seagulls!

ZULU
29th June 2009, 22:15
"he's coming straight for us!"

concussion
29th June 2009, 23:13
Strangely enough, I have seen a seagull fly past 2 HMG detachments just as they opened up - I can't decide whether it's survival was due to excellent reactions and technique or a reflection on the gunners themselves :eek::smile:

sofa
29th June 2009, 23:40
Was looking at a shoot in Gormo about twenty years ago. when a clown in a Aer lingus jet over flew the area after leaving Dublin airport, a lot of shouting at the guns to stop them firing at the towed target. It was a RDF ADR yearly shoot from C.B.















.

.

GoneToTheCanner
30th June 2009, 01:04
I assure you, the clown in the Aer Lingus jet, just like any other airline pilot operating from Dublin Airport, would have been well aware of the range being operational, just like the people in the Tower in the airport wouldn't have sent him into harm's way...........think about it, who decided to put an anti-aircraft range on an airbase, just a few miles North of the busiest airport in the State?..........also, ask any Air Corps Cessna pilot how close the AA fire has come to the aircraft, at times.
regards
GttC

GoneToTheCanner
30th June 2009, 01:13
Hi JJ,
The State should be able to fire all of it's weapons on it's own territory. After all, if at one time, it could routinely fire a 9.2 inch shell out of Cork harbour, then a piddling little missile shouldn't be a problem. If they have a sim, why do they need to go to Sweden? My inherent cynicism always smells junket when it comes to the DF, having seen them first-hand. If one of our missiles is coming to the end of it's shelf-life, then there is no earthly reason why it should not be fired here.
regards
GttC

Truck Driver
30th June 2009, 07:01
The Hagglunds BV-206 is also an excellent platform - they literally go anywhere - I've been driving them since 1994 and took one to the Falkland Islands.

It's good kit you have there lads.

RGJ

The ones I' ve seen knocking about are "seconds" - with 1993 Reg plates
- all State vehicles, including DF vehicles, have standard DoE reg plates,
unlike the BA vehicles, as you probably know, anyway...

Truck Driver
30th June 2009, 07:04
Was looking at a shoot in Gormo about twenty years ago. when a clown in a Aer lingus jet over flew the area after leaving Dublin airport, a lot of shouting at the guns to stop them firing at the towed target. It was a RDF ADR yearly shoot from C.B.

This is irrelevant

As the Canner has said, the noification of Exclusion zone would have been made well
in advance of any firing in Gormanston

On the subject of AD firing in Gormanston versus proximity to Dublin Airport
- which was there first ???

GoneToTheCanner
30th June 2009, 14:43
The airport, since the 30s.... Gormo's rifle range was probably there in the Brits' time.
regards
GttC

hedgehog
30th June 2009, 15:21
Gormanston camp was there before the Airport

but that wont matter

the pecking order is

Civies

Cattle

Horses

Inanimate objects

Soldiers

Truck Driver
30th June 2009, 17:51
Gormanston camp was there before the Airport

but that wont matter

the pecking order is

Civies

Cattle

Horses

Inanimate objects

Soldiers

Reminds me of the unofficial motto of the Paras:

" If it moves, kick it. If it doesn't move, kick it until it does move "

Victor
30th June 2009, 21:48
Hi JJ,
The State should be able to fire all of it's weapons on it's own territory. After all, if at one time, it could routinely fire a 9.2 inch shell out of Cork harbour, Last time they tried that, they messed up big time.


then a piddling little missile shouldn't be a problem. If they have a sim, why do they need to go to Sweden? My inherent cynicism always smells junket when it comes to the DF, having seen them first-hand. If one of our missiles is coming to the end of it's shelf-life, then there is no earthly reason why it should not be fired here.Junket includes a training course. Presumably high level training course only done by the manufacturer.

hptmurphy
30th June 2009, 22:19
Was looking at a shoot in Gormo about twenty years ago. when a clown in a Aer lingus jet over flew the area after leaving Dublin airport, a lot of shouting at the guns to stop them firing at the towed target. It was a RDF ADR yearly shoot from C.B.


Something inherintley wrong in this post especially if its in relation to a scheduled flight leaving a controlled airport.

Those who fly will know about N.O.T.A.Ms..Notices To Airmen.

All aeronautical charts of Ireland show the 'R' ( restricted) and 'D' ( danger areas) in red hatching. Notices are posted to to the operations and A.T.C s to say when these areas are active..pilots don't have to read the national news papers to find out.

A.T.C would advise operators that the zones are active on any given date and route traffic around them if all flightplans had not already been amended to re route traffic anyway.The Air lines ops department would have submitted the intended routing and advised the crew as to this routing well in advance.

Closest I saw to it was guy routing from Waterford to Cyprus and wanted to route over Sarejevo ( in a G.IV owned by Louisiana Pacific) at 35,000 ft.Shannon were on the phone like a bullet advising him..even before he left the ground ..so wandering into 'D' or 'R' zones isn't as simple as posted.Bear in mind this was about 1992 and there was something of war in progress in the region at the time.

How do I know this happened..I submitted his flight plan via fax to Shannon who were on the phone to me immediately..

The proceedure for NOTAMs and the issuing and receipt being fairly comprehensive so the wandering of say an Aer Lingus flight into a D area on a active day would be all but impossible

warthog
1st July 2009, 00:06
Love it :biggrin:

Incidentally, anyone know what the cost of a Mk2 RBS 70 missile is compared with Bolide and Javelin AT?

Edit: Also Ireland does not have a big enough range for an RBS live shoot.

Warthog: A 40 mm would be way too big to mount - unless you mean a 40mm grenade launcher for local ground defence??

yeah i mean for local defence,it seems like these would be quite exposed if we sent them to Chad etc

concussion
1st July 2009, 01:42
They have roof hatches, I wouldn't think it would be much of a problem adding a weapons mount. I would prefer a HMG to a 40 mm AGL as you'd have some form of AD capability. Which gets me thinking, [WALT ALERT] if an AGL has comparable range to a HMG, why not introduce a proximity fused round for use against helicopters etc?[/WALT ALERT]

That's it, I've put the whiskey down and I'm going to bed :biggrin:


Edit - said HMG

http://www.haaland.info/norway/recon/bilder/bv206frm.jpg

paul g
1st July 2009, 09:00
Last time they tried that, they messed up big time.

Junket includes a training course. Presumably high level training course only done by the manufacturer.

if my memory serves me correctly, the live firing in Sweden took place around the time the CONDS was brought into service with the RBS-70, and the course was probably connected with training members of the ADR with that. perhaps somebody who has past copies of An Cosantoir might confirm

paul g
1st July 2009, 09:05
They have roof hatches, I wouldn't think it would be much of a problem adding a weapons mount. I would prefer a HMG to a 40 mm AGL as you'd have some form of AD capability.

Given that they carry air defence radars and operate closesly with RBS-70 SAM, why would they need a HMG for air defence.

Also if they were deployed overseas, they'd be escorted outside the base, as they are such valuable assets. Really no need for close defence weapons on these vehicles as they'd operate with a lot of security operationally

Come-quickly
1st July 2009, 10:10
I'm curious to know if we have the Bolide version. Being able to hit ground targets would sort of fill a gap at the top of our ATk tree.
Not an ideal use, but better to have something than nothing.

GoneToTheCanner
1st July 2009, 12:39
HH
the camp was there before the airport, right enough, but was it an anti-aircraft range back then? Probably not.......
regards
GttC

hedgehog
1st July 2009, 13:37
There was an Anti Air craft range established in 1897

at Gormanston

they put on a display of AA equipment for the visit of Arch Duke Ferdinand

who was here to see his horse race at bettystown on the same day.

Barry
1st July 2009, 13:38
Chucking rocks at seagulls was what passed for air defence back then. It counted as all arms air defence if you threw with both hands.

Truck Driver
1st July 2009, 17:07
There was an Anti Air craft range established in 1897

at Gormanston

they put on a display of AA equipment for the visit of Arch Duke Ferdinand

who was here to see his horse race at bettystown on the same day.

So now you know, 'Canner !!! :biggrin:

concussion
1st July 2009, 18:22
Given that they carry air defence radars and operate closesly with RBS-70 SAM, why would they need a HMG for air defence.

Also if they were deployed overseas, they'd be escorted outside the base, as they are such valuable assets. Really no need for close defence weapons on these vehicles as they'd operate with a lot of security operationally

Because the HMG or eqivalent is the close range "oh fcuk they're coming right at us" weapon that most militaries equip their vehicles with. The radar is a priority target in any air battle, why not equip it with something?


I'm curious to know if we have the Bolide version. Being able to hit ground targets would sort of fill a gap at the top of our ATk tree.
Not an ideal use, but better to have something than nothing.

We bought the Mk 2 missile which offers increased range and better penetration against armoured airborne targets. Bolide is a further development of the Mk 2 and can be used against armoured ground targets. How much armour is another matter, I don't think it would be very effective against an MBT whereas the Javelin is designed for these kinds of targets.


Chucking rocks at seagulls was what passed for air defence back then. It counted as all arms air defence if you threw with both hands.

Was there any 'air' to defend against in the 1890's?? Nice one on the AAAD :tongue:

Victor
1st July 2009, 19:13
Was there any 'air' to defend against in the 1890's?? Nice one on the AAAD :tongue:Balloons and Zepplins.

Balloons had been used in the American Civil War and Francoi Prussian War for artillery spotting. I suspect the first use of Zepplins was in WWI for shipping observation and strategic bombing. A few Zepplins nearly put the Royal Arsenal out of production becuase they were seen as invincible, as they were out of AAA and aircraft range. People don't like being attacked by invincible weapons.

concussion
1st July 2009, 20:48
Whatever about balloons, I didn't realise they had zepplins back then, thanks.

GoneToTheCanner
1st July 2009, 21:54
Nice one, HH...been reading your kid's history books then?.........if you are in AD, watch where they put the radar and then dig your slit trench as far away as possible.
regards
GttC

concussion
8th July 2009, 20:01
According to the Australian Army's magazine, the missiles (they use Mk 2 and Bolide) cost AU$150,000 or €83,000. About 30% more than Javelin AT, going on a cost per missile of €60,000.

The results of a live fire (which appears to be rare enough over there aswell) - 6 hits, 2 misses and 2 launch failures. A 20% failure rate is not comforting to be honest.

Page 14 - http://digital.realviewtechnologies.com/?xml=defencenews_army.xml

DeV
8th July 2009, 21:11
It isn't a case of point and shoot, the RBS is laser guided (ie keep the target in the cross hairs no matter what the target does) also the missiles have a proxmity fuze that would peppered the target with sharpnel.

Said article also says the target was half the size of a cruise missile and was travelling at 125 metres per second (450 kph).

concussion
8th July 2009, 22:29
What I mean is that 2 out of 10 missiles didn't even leave the tube - with only seconds to engage I don't see much chance of reloading in time. These missiles are stored in their launch tubes and guaranteed for x number of years - maybe they were near their expiration date

knocker
11th July 2009, 15:56
Does the RBS have a fire and forget option ? As mentioned above - the operating time discounts the number of missiles available to launch

DeV
11th July 2009, 18:25
Does the RBS have a fire and forget option ? No

madmark
12th January 2011, 22:33
what price did we pay for the bv 206 we got???
they should have looked up done deal first lol

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/othermotor/1770060

hedgehog
13th January 2011, 09:29
Maybe some Councils should be waying that off for the snow in April.

Post 101 in this thread- I apoligise to GTTC

what in the name of God was I inhaling that afternoon.

Jetjock
13th January 2011, 10:22
If you remember put me down for a case!

Goldie fish
13th January 2011, 10:31
what price did we pay for the bv 206 we got???
they should have looked up done deal first lol

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/othermotor/1770060

That doesnt have the nice radar we got with ours...

That said, you can pick up all shapes and sizes of nearly new versions for about £20k.
Disadvantage being petrol engines mostly of course.

http://www.leavesley-international.com/all-terrain-vehicles-c11

GoneToTheCanner
13th January 2011, 11:07
Hi Hedgey,
Too much sherry in the trifle;)
regards
GttC

madmark
13th January 2011, 13:29
That doesnt have the nice radar we got with ours...

That said, you can pick up all shapes and sizes of nearly new versions for about £20k.
Disadvantage being petrol engines mostly of course.

http://www.leavesley-international.com/all-terrain-vehicles-c11

i know, but dam you will find anything on that site