PDA

View Full Version : Creche facilities on ships.



hptmurphy
19th September 2003, 12:22
I see that some of the female members of the NS who also happen to be mothers are up in arms about the conflict between their carreers and the maternal role from Todays examiner.

What the **** do they think the navy is ......

These were always the issues that disbarred women from the navy in the past and are starting to come back to haunt them now.

Was it not explained to these women that going to sea on patrol was an integral part of the navy.

If they choose to have children that the service should not have to change its patrolling arrangements to suit them.

Every other navy in the world that has seagoing female personnel has similar circumstances but the bottom line is if you are seagoing personnel you must go to sea.These females joined on the pretext of being equal to their male counterparts and now that mother nature has kicked in they want different terms to their male counter parts.

Now thats real discrimination.

Would they like creche facilities on Naval vessels ...maybe the night watches could include a member to do the feeds and change nappies.......sorry sir where do I put the car seat in the RIB.


This is totally out rageous.....they signed on to do a specific job and if they cannot do the role that they enlisted for they should leave.

Civilian employers may be able to make allowances for such happenings but to think that the NS may even consider altering its routines for such matters what is the world comming to.

Just as well men can't have babies...the whole DF would be in the shit seeing as it is mainly made up of males.



I magine if Nelson was holding a baby at the battle of trafalgar...who wo have beat the french............Where do you put prams in a gun turret...........

Whats the world coming to........

I know this will piss off some of our female contributers but I saw this coming years ago and everbody said it would never happen....well it has!

John
19th September 2003, 13:04
The Irish Examiner

19/09/03

Navy women complain of discrimination

By Sean O’Riordan
THE Equality Authority has warned the Navy it must introduce more family-friendly policies after women sailors complained they were being discriminated against.

In a letter to the commander of the Navy, the Equality Authority said it had been contacted by a number of women who complained of discrimination on the grounds of gender and family status.

The letter, a copy of which was obtained by The Irish Examiner, said: “It is of particular concern to the women that there are no proper procedures in place to deal with childcare issues. A number of women have felt harassed and intimidated by being called in continually by management and pressurised to return to sea.”

The Equality Authority went on to say the Naval Service appeared to have no family-friendly policies or arrangements in place to deal with childcare difficulties experienced by “a number of parents and women”.

With the likelihood that more and more women will join the service in the coming years, the Equality Authority suggested that difficulties need to be addressed as a matter of priority.

A Naval Service spokesman acknowledged they had received correspondence from the Equality Authority, but denied there was any discrimination against women.

“The Navy fully recognises that seagoing requirements for parents raises specific challenges. Seagoing is a fundamental part of a naval service career. There’s a planned approach to seagoing rotation of personnel based on a two-year assignment to a ship followed by two years based on shore,” the spokesman said.

The Navy said all of its 1,100 personnel, including around 100 women, were given full statutory entitlements and a range of family-friendly policies, including maternity, parental and adoptive leave and career breaks.

The allegations contained in the letter have been forwarded to Defence Force headquarters. A Defence Forces spokesman said anyone with a grievance can avail of an internal complaints procedure.

The average time away on ship patrol in Irish waters is two to three weeks, which makes it difficult for the Navy to provide créche facilities.

However, a county councillor who lives near the Naval headquarters in Haulbowline, near Cobh, Co Cork, said she had also received several complaints from serving women.

“I have been approached by a number of them who have expressed genuine and serious concern at the navy’s archaic employment systems which revolve around single men, or married men whose wives are at home,” said Cllr Deirdre Forde. She said pressure on single parents may result in them having to buy their way out of the navy, at substantial cost to themselves, and to the Government, which invested a lot of money in their training

ias
19th September 2003, 13:48
Is it April 1st?


IAS

sba
19th September 2003, 14:05
Is this some sort of joke? I can remember when women were first introduced to the NS...as Murph says, everyone knew this would happen. What's their moan about now? They are serving DF personel..get on with the job, or get out. I'm not anti-female; but I am anti moaners.

While I was still serving, we had a number of occasions when women got transfers/courses ahead of men so that the NS would not appear discriminatory...who is being discriminated against now?

Yes, those of us who are parents can understand the anguish mothers must feel when seperated from their children for extended periods of time. Believe it or not, most fathers feel the same. Yet, the men are expected to put up or shut up. I wonder how many of these women woould have complained if they had been offered 6 months with UNIFIL, or 12 months in Cyprus? Maybe I'm too much of a cynic, but I cant imagine too many of them passing up on a nice tour in Cyprus. Anyone disagree??

Goldie fish
19th September 2003, 16:39
Hang on..they are complaining because they are being pressurised to RETURN to sea..
They are complaining that they are in fact being treated the same as men? Do they now want special treatment just because they have a uturus?

Earhart
19th September 2003, 18:33
Hpt Murphy - Didn't realise that mens inability to have children excluded them from the duty of care for a child! Remind me why male naval personnel are not burdonned with the care of their children. Perhaps this is not a female specific issue but a parental issue. Businesses now grant paternity leave to fathers in order to allow them to look after their children.
Obviously a ship is no place for a child as your misinformed naming of this thread suggests! (Earhart's body tenses with rage) The issue of childcare affects both men and women alike. (I'm going to stop now, and take this up with you personnally before I explode)

T.I.M.
20th September 2003, 08:43
Eh, why would there be a child daycare center on a battleship? what would you teach the kids? arent irish naval vessles cramped enough without clearing out room for a "ball room"? :)

Dan.
20th September 2003, 12:12
Everyone knows that in the navy you have to spend weeks at a time away from home at sea.
These women knew it so they should have thought twice about it.
If they have such a big problem with the way the navy works why don't they leave?
Or they could transfer to the army where they would have most evenings and weekends off to be with the kids.

Earhart
20th September 2003, 17:33
LORD all mighty!
Kermit - all I was saying that it is not a female specific issue. Dan, same point to you. The naval serving men who have children surely face the same issues! They knew what they were joining - should they leave the Navy when they become fathers?
This thread is causing me a lot of stress....

hptmurphy
20th September 2003, 19:06
Didn't seem to be a major issue in my day!

Its about time that all this liberalism bollocks was swept aside and the DF be recognised as a serious occupation.The people involved knew what they were in for when they joined the navy......The Navy will be a far worse places if it were to change its profile to suit a few distressed mothers.

This is an occupational issue that is accepted worldwide in Naval and military institutions and if it is to change because of the few well we might as well all stay at home and watch Barney with our Kids.

How do you think I feel going away on camp for three weeks leaving my family ....buts that the hobby I chose and my family accept it.

I went to sea for longer patrols and yes people miss their loved ones but I don't think there were too many bleeding hearts ashore to fight the cause......This is primarily a womens issue.....but it galls me to think that they are even going to try champion this cause because they can't handle the job they signed up for.

Goldie fish
21st September 2003, 06:00
I remember the Jockeys wife rared a family of 6 while Jockey was off sinking spanish trawlers...and nobody asked him if he wanted time off the see the kids...


It may as you say bea non gender specific issue earhart,but it only became an issue when the females came aboard....thats where the problem lies..
Its positive discrimination.

Smity
21st September 2003, 11:06
I've heard everything now! If the NS doesn't stand up to this and insist on all personnel being equal they may as well hand over Irish Ferries.

Goldie fish
23rd September 2003, 02:02
Hand over what? To who? Why?

Smity
23rd September 2003, 07:19
Sorry, I meant "to" Irish Ferries

Bailer
23rd September 2003, 17:48
<font face="tahoma" color="#ff9900">GRRRR :mad: :mad: :mad:

Earhart do you think fathers get paid "Paternal" benefit to take time off for their kids Pah! I'm entitled to take time off unpaid to look after my kids. Can I afford to NO!! If their mother's sick I look after them!! payt childcare and work!!

Now as for the Naval service women complaining about childcare provisions!! The Multi Billion Euro Company I work for doesn't provide Childcare options for us. Me and my female Colleagues have to sort that out before we come to work. If you don't have someone to mind your kids you don't work. If they are Single mothers with no father to help with the child then I don't think the NS is for them. I know a good few female soldiers in the PDF and RDF who have children, some of them aren't married and even some don't have partners to share the childcare with. they still manage to have full time careers, go on courses, etc without complaining to their superiors or the equality commision.

Your childrens Care is your own responsibility. Not the Army's or the Naval Service's. If you want to be in the NS then you have to do your job that involves patrolling for 2-3 weeks everyone knew this before they were sworn in or signed the dotted line!! If they want a job where they can go collect junior from the creche every evening. join the Cleaning Services!!!

Equality works both ways!</font>

Goldie fish
24th September 2003, 02:27
Exactly..what he said!
Not long ago,the Review of the Naval service and air corps identified one of the major inefficiencies of the Naval service being the amount of staff who did not go to sea. This was only recently rectified. Now as i see it you have this selection of female personell who feel that because they have kids they should not have to go to sea? What then do they want to do?
I have in the past often spoken of my friend who was in the GASU. She,being Married and female,decided the time was right to hear the patter of tiny feet. Maternity leave followed soonafter,and due to the nature of the job,was longer than normal maternity leave. Due to the small size of the unit it was impossible to replace her during this time,and consequently it was often the case that an aircraft had to remain grounded. She returned to full duty but as often is the case with a young married woman, she became pregnant again. This time she decided that the needs of her family came before that of the unit,and she resigned from the unit and returned to mainstream policing. It has since been decided that the GASU is no longer open to female applicants. The reason being,ben do not require 6 months maternity leave.
It is time for these ladies to decide what comes first. The needs of their family or the requirments of the NS. I am sure the army would be more than happy if they transferred. I know of male personell who have transferred to army when the NS was unable to provide them with a 9-5 job.

Earhart. Try not to make this a personal crusade for womens rights..its time to change the record. Nobody gave a care about the wives left at home over the years bringing up children when husbands were at sea or even overseas. Why should things change now because of a few single mothers? Being away from ones children is part of the Job when it comes to careers such as the naval service or defence forces. Making the decision to have children(assuming such a decision was made in a sober and planned occasion)should include consideration of how it will effect your career. If it was not "planned" then it is stupid to assume the employer will make allowances for you. The NS,like every employer has a job to do. Individual problems should not,and do not compromise that task.

Sluggie
24th September 2003, 03:09
The actions of the NS in this case are being watched with interest by every member. Each father and mother who missed a first birthday, fist communion or first day at school because of a patrol, is paying attention.

These disruptions to family life have always been taken as part of the job by all (seagoing) personnel. The alternative is chaos.

I have been informed that the NS intend to take an extreemly firm line on this matter.

Goldie fish
24th September 2003, 03:19
Proper order too. Its time the military authorities stood up to the PC brigade,before all that remains of our defence force is the laughing stock of the world.

Sluggie
24th September 2003, 03:25
The inital response was not perfect, but when the consequences of setting a precedent were realised, there was no option but to hold the line.

Legally this girl has no real case.