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CS Gass
22nd December 2009, 16:42
Hello all,

Could any members of the PDF provide any examples of the advantages of being Other Ranks in the Army over being an officer? I'm sure there are plenty, perhaps its the courses open to you or the chances of getting overseas more often etc

Cheers

red arse
22nd December 2009, 18:28
well now more than ever you have to look at the long term picture, pension and promotion conditions are very good for officers (practically guaranteed commandant rank) college education for free etc. Good overseas prospects when you finish college (USAC).
However on the other hand if you are an other rank and are interested in your career you have excellent prospects for courses for overseas.
So with everything there are pro's and con's, you just need to decide what would appeal to you more

Hello Alaska
22nd December 2009, 18:45
We're better at soccer.


That's about it. :-D

MikeHunt
23rd December 2009, 00:21
A lobatomy is optional?

knocker
23rd December 2009, 11:06
Alaska
Do the enlisted scum play the officers at rugby / football at any time during the year ? We have a tradition that there is a game just before christmas leave

hedgehog
23rd December 2009, 11:30
No 2 ways about it- Go Officer if you can


apart from the easier ride- you never have to worry about paying your car insurance- ( Come on Kermit you know you want to)

Hello Alaska
23rd December 2009, 15:59
Alaska
Do the enlisted scum play the officers at rugby / football at any time during the year ? We have a tradition that there is a game just before christmas leave

The Officers and NCO's played against each other today in a game of soccer, which the Officers won.

Privates aren't allowed play against the NCO's and Officers because it would most likely end in a fight of some sort. Plus, we'd hammer the lot of them.


Like HH said, if I was to advise anyone on the choice between General Enlistment or a Cadetship, it'd be a Cadetship every time.

hedgehog
23rd December 2009, 17:38
Privates arent allowed

because who else would hold our towels and be there to wipe the sweat off our brow at half time-

Privates are allowed use the pitches when its dark and no one else wants them.

Privates know your place-

balkanhawk
28th August 2010, 17:56
I think the contract is longer for officers though.12 years as opposed to 5 years

Rudolf Neff
15th May 2011, 12:15
The question you must ask yourself is "do you want to command or do you want to be commanded".
The officer will decide on what is to be done and the enlisted man is the one who is charge with doing it.

timhorgan
15th May 2011, 12:54
The question you must ask yourself is "do you want to command or do you want to be commanded".
The officer will decide on what is to be done and the enlisted man is the one who is charge with doing it.

RN,


You might be interested in watching a speech by Captain Patrick Hennessy at the Royal United Services Institute where he covers some very pertinent points- especially from 10 mins.+ in the 14 min.video. Patrick Hennessy was the youngest Captain in the British Army and saw service in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is the author of "The Junior Officers' Reading Club" and will also appear in the BBC series on the war in Afghanistan to be broadcast in June.

He is a credit to the British Army and here gives some modern thinking into the demise of the class system in the army and has some interesting thoughts on the capabilities of junior officers/Nco's.

http://www.rusi.org/analysis/commentary/ref:C4CC94EBAE679E/




Independent review of TJORC by PH.


A tech-savvy Oxford graduate of the iPod generation spends the day spaced out on a high-decibel, high-adrenalin activity that leaves him feeling that "nowhere else sells bliss like this". As for the chilled come-down after those hours of brain-tingling rapture, it resembles "the end of some massive night in a hardcore warehouse". What has this ultra-cool dude, who drops phrases such as "post-modern irony" as readily as he customises Amy Winehouse lyrics, been doing?


He has been commanding a platoon of the Grenadier Guards as they turn the firepower of the British army (Nato approvals and UN resolutions all present and correct) on Taliban ambushers in the parched badlands of Helmand province, in southern Afghanistan, in May 2007. Mullah Omar's driver, it turns out, would not come home from that rave in one piece. "Something", this officer decides in the downtime after a near-orgasmic fire-fight, "was needed to shake us out of the dangerous enjoyment we were getting from it all."

dahamster
15th May 2011, 13:07
[QUOTE=hedgehog;281987]No 2 ways about it- Go Officer if you can


QUOTE]

+1

Jungle
15th May 2011, 13:35
Old thread I know, but here goes: as a young Officer, your service will alternate between short periods of command and long periods of staff work. As a NCM, you will spend most of your career in units, going on courses, exercises and deployments that most Officers have little chance of doing.

I don't know about your Army, but we have Commissionning-From-The-Ranks programs that permit a transfer for those NCMs who wish to do so. One of the programs is aimed at Sgt-Maj ranks, and permits to transfer directly to Capt. This is what I am doing this year, and I will be a Capt sometime in June. I am happy with this, as I have done many things in my first 27 years of Service that are very difficult for Officers to get, but commissionning now gives me new challenges for the last 10 years of my career.

knocker
15th May 2011, 13:45
Old thread I know, but here goes: as a young Officer, your service will alternate between short periods of command and long periods of staff work. As a NCM, you will spend most of your career in units, going on courses, exercises and deployments that most Officers have little chance of doing.

I don't know about your Army, but we have Commissionning-From-The-Ranks programs that permit a transfer for those NCMs who wish to do so. One of the programs is aimed at Sgt-Maj ranks, and permits to transfer directly to Capt. This is what I am doing this year, and I will be a Capt sometime in June. I am happy with this, as I have done many things in my first 27 years of Service that are very difficult for Officers to get, but commissionning now gives me new challenges for the last 10 years of my career.

Excellent news jungle congratulations \:)|

danno
15th May 2011, 13:49
Good Luck on the next stage of your career.

RoyalGreenJacket
15th May 2011, 17:17
The question you must ask yourself is "do you want to command or do you want to be commanded".
The officer will decide on what is to be done and the enlisted man is the one who is charge with doing it.

i disagree - even JNCO's are commanders - be it a LCpl in charge of a Fire-Team or an RSM heading up a battalion. they both command men - granted under instruction from officers but all JNCO's and SNCO's are very much promoted as being commanders and we are all well versed in initiating and issuing our own orders.

and well done on the commissioning Jungle.

holdfast
15th May 2011, 17:20
great post tim

timhorgan
15th May 2011, 19:28
great post tim

Thanks HF- but all credit to Patrick Hennessy - bearing in mind he was putting it to probably the complete General Staff.

knocker
15th May 2011, 19:39
As the original post was asking about the enlisted V officer career in the irish army , your post just goes to show that you enjoy posting irrelevant links. How about posting relevant links or if you have none - post nothing

Goldie fish
15th May 2011, 20:38
The best comparison I saw with civvy street is NCOs are supervisors, Officers are management.

knocker
15th May 2011, 20:43
NCOs also have a wee thing called experience that no amount of time in the lecture hall will prepare an officer for. Irrelevant of nationality , it would be a very foolish officer, at unit level ( be that company / batallion ) who doesnt consult their relevant ncos

timhorgan
15th May 2011, 22:12
As the original post was asking about the enlisted V officer career in the irish army , your post just goes to show that you enjoy posting irrelevant links. How about posting relevant links or if you have none - post nothing

If you are referring to my post Knocker then please understand that I was referring to Captain Patrick Hennessy of the Grenadier Guards who

a) Has an enviable academic record- Oxford & Sandhurst
b) Has extensive combat experience commanding men both in Iraq and Afghanistan.
c) Made a point of referring in his interesting lecture specifically to the fact that he thinks that more thought should be given to the subject of senior NCOs and Junior Officers level of responsibility.

I thought that it would be interesting for people on here to look at his lecture-that is all. People can then make up their own mind- or do you see yourself as being one of the sole interpreters for us of what goes on in the British Army or who we should listen to.

For my part, I will continue to think for myself. I will always be happy to quote yourself if you are invited to address RUSI and it is relevant to a thread here. In the meantime, it is difficult to see how you consider your contribution as being more important than that of the talented young Captain and why you should want to censor it.

timhorgan
15th May 2011, 23:07
The question you must ask yourself is "do you want to command or do you want to be commanded".
The officer will decide on what is to be done and the enlisted man is the one who is charge with doing it.


"The one aspect that puts the officer apart is that, NCOs, in general terms, do not command soldiers"

RN- you are of course quite right and you are in pretty exalted company.
General Sir Mike Jackson wrote this paper- as you know he was CGS of the British Army, and the above quotation is from his paper. Worth reading in the context of this thread.


http://www.ukdf.org.uk/assets/downloads/CP46TheRoleoftheNonCommissionedOfficer.pdf



RGJ: i disagree - even JNCO's are commanders - be it a LCpl in charge of a Fire-Team or an RSM heading up a battalion. they both command men - granted under instruction from officers but all JNCO's and SNCO's are very much promoted as being commanders and we are all well versed in initiating and issuing our own orders.

I am afraid, like you RN- I am with the General on this one.

Orion
15th May 2011, 23:10
Captain Patrick Hennessy at the Royal United Services Institute


He has a very thinly veiled dig at the Typhoon during his talk, wonder how that went down with his audience.

sofa
15th May 2011, 23:24
Old thread I know, but here goes: as a young Officer, your service will alternate between short periods of command and long periods of staff work. As a NCM, you will spend most of your career in units, going on courses, exercises and deployments that most Officers have little chance of doing.

I don't know about your Army, but we have Commissionning-From-The-Ranks programs that permit a transfer for those NCMs who wish to do so. One of the programs is aimed at Sgt-Maj ranks, and permits to transfer directly to Capt. This is what I am doing this year, and I will be a Capt sometime in June. I am happy with this, as I have done many things in my first 27 years of Service that are very difficult for Officers to get, but commissionning now gives me new challenges for the last 10 years of my career.

Sounds like an interesting next ten years. Congratulations and best of luck.

ZULU
15th May 2011, 23:33
I agree with Rgj. Mission command and strategic corporal theories combined with 3 block war will see jnco and snco making some very serious command decisions

danno
15th May 2011, 23:47
Capt Hennessy said as much in his after dinner as Tim H has posted.

timhorgan
15th May 2011, 23:50
He has a very thinly veiled dig at the Typhoon during his talk, wonder how that went down with his audience.


He is not afraid to speak his mind- debate here with Gen.Richards.

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/tag/patrick-hennessey/

excerpt:

Clarke: But do you worry that the Wootton Bassett effect may make the soldiers look like victims of government policy instead of instruments of government policy? It’s very individualised.

Richards: No, I haven’t really picked that up myself, but I can see why that is something we should be wary of. But on the whole it’s been a huge bonus for us.

Hennessey: Is there not a danger of what one might call “Diana-fication” of our culture, being less stoical about death and injury? There might be quite serious consequences here for the army—there are things coming through the courts at the moment where the MoD is being sued by mothers of people who’ve died, who are challenging tactical decisions made on the ground that have led to the death of someone. And there are tabloid outcries about payouts to soldiers who have been badly injured being too low. But in the event that we ever did have to fight a conventional war, the sums would be prohibitively high.

hptmurphy
15th May 2011, 23:59
Congratulations Jungle..what Rank are you commissioned at given your previous service and will your rank be capped in light of the fact you have come through the ranks?

Orion
16th May 2011, 00:08
He is not afraid to speak his mind- debate here with Gen.Richards.

Yes can see that.

On the one hand he is a radical thinker but on the other he will uphold the traditional/establishment line. Either way he seems comfortable speaking his mind.

RoyalGreenJacket
16th May 2011, 00:53
this 'only officers command' is utter bo||ox.

as a soldier with 22 years experience, 17 of those years as an NCO, i've commanded soldiers literally hundreds if not thousands of times - as has any other experienced NCO in the British Army (i can't speak for other armies but i guess it's the same).

even basics like a Guard Commander commands his men, a Section Commander commands his men, a platoon 2ND IN COMMAND (2IC) is always a SNCO - the word 'commander' kind of gives it away.

when my Boss is away is the platoon left without command? no it is not because as a SNCO i am also a commander and i run the show and command the men on a daily basis - as happens regularly everywhere throughout the Army.

every course i have attended on leadership as an NCO has harped on about our role as commanders - and every NCO must complete and pass his CLM (COMMAND, Leadership and Management) course for each rank range. unless you pass the command (and every other phase) of CLM you will be stripped of your rank as an NCO because command is very much a core skill and daily business for any NCO.

so if you want to believe that only Officers 'command' - then dream on because in the real army with real soldiers - they are very much commanded by NCO's.

Hello Alaska
16th May 2011, 01:01
Of course NCO's command troops.

A Platoon Commander will take you towards the Obj but for those last 200-300 metres you spend in contact, taking the fight to the enemy or as you work your way through compounds, it's his NCO's that will be leading the fight and getting the sections working.

If a Section Commander has to fight through a building, he's not gonna take off his Marconi and hand it around to each Private saying "Here, the Boss wants to tell you what to do".

To suggest NCO's don't command troops is wild.

Truck Driver
16th May 2011, 03:43
NCOs also have a wee thing called experience that no amount of time in the lecture hall will prepare an officer for. Irrelevant of nationality , it would be a very foolish officer, at unit level ( be that company / batallion ) who doesnt consult their relevant ncos

Reminds me of an interesting fictional article in An Cosantoir years ago, narrated
from the point of view of the newly commissioned 2/Lt, about to go out to
send his first barrack guard on duty


I don't know about your Army, but we have Commissionning-From-The-Ranks programs that permit a transfer for those NCMs who wish to do so. One of the programs is aimed at Sgt-Maj ranks, and permits to transfer directly to Capt. This is what I am doing this year, and I will be a Capt sometime in June. I am happy with this, as I have done many things in my first 27 years of Service that are very difficult for Officers to get, but commissionning now gives me new challenges for the last 10 years of my career.

Well done Jungle, congrats
Am pretty sure the Brits do much the same thing, CFR geared for
Sen NCO's (read WO1, WO2 level)

To answer your question, CFR does exist in the Permanent Defence Force, however,
these have been far and few between, and this subject has been debated
elsewhere

The last CFR course was run about 2 years ago, after a significant enough gap
to the previous one, if memory serves me correctly

I did recall the Vox Pop in the article, the most junior rank on that CFR course
was a Corporal of 12-14 years service, the most senior was a Company Sergeant

timhorgan
16th May 2011, 05:47
Capt Hennessy said as much in his after dinner as Tim H has posted.

Thanks Danno, you have the intelligence to understand the point that Patrick Hennessy was making so well, as was Gen.Jackson- both distinguished soldiers that we can relate to.
I find it interesting, but not surprising that some on here were in such a hurry to challenge a straightfoward discussion point made by Rudolf Neff who joined only recently - it seems some people like to hog every debate and pretend they know better than us as they have some experience in the BA. But they need to raise their game by some measure if they want me to listen to their view instead of the views of professional British soldiers with verifiable combat and leadership experience such as Hennessy or Jackson.

Danno-Thank you for understanding the subtleties of the arguments put forward by those two fine soldiers.
Rudolf-you are right -keep up the good work.

Jungle
16th May 2011, 06:04
Congratulations Jungle..what Rank are you commissioned at given your previous service and will your rank be capped in light of the fact you have come through the ranks?

Officially, I will be commissioned in the rank of Second-Lieutenant, with simultaneous promotion to Captain.

I will enter the promotion zone to Major 4 years after, and nothing is stopping me from going up in rank. I will never command a Rifle Coy or an Infantry Battalion, but pretty much everything else is open.

timhorgan
16th May 2011, 06:08
Officially, I will be commissioned in the rank of Second-Lieutenant, with simultaneous promotion to Captain.

I will enter the promotion zone to Major 4 years after, and nothing is stopping me from going up in rank. I will never command a Rifle Coy or an Infantry Battalion, but pretty much everything else is open.

félicitations, mon vieux!!

RoyalGreenJacket
16th May 2011, 09:36
so i'm just making this all up am i Horgan?

the fact that you believe only Officers command men shows how little you understand about the modern military and how redundency is built into everything we do - and that includes having the Boss of a platoon taken out where his SNCO will take command of the men.

we always train 'one up' and in any promotion course exercises where Corporals become Platoon Sergeants and Sergeants will become Platoon Commanders - we do this so we can all do the job of - wait for it - "commanding men".

but i'm glad you said you won't listen to me so be a good lad and put me on your ignore list please.

now excuse me while i command my men on this journey from Northern Ireland to our base in England, and guess what - our Boss remained in England - how did we ever get this far without him?!

hedgehog
16th May 2011, 09:45
I agree with RGJ on this one-

Privates are expected to be able to take over and run the show should the need arise, thats why

on simple things like Bk Gd when the BOS/Gd Comd are away the senior man takes over,

likewise all Soldiers irregardles of rank are under command of someone- the chief is under the

command of the minister etc etc etc.

hedgehog
16th May 2011, 09:46
Well done on the promotion Jungle- it is great to see lads who have worn the tshirt and walked the walk

get promoted.

RoyalGreenJacket
16th May 2011, 09:55
thats right Hedgie its what soldiers like us the world over know as the 'Chain of Command' and it certainly goes way beyond officers - right down to the level of seniority among Riflemen as you rightly pointed out.

timhorgan
16th May 2011, 17:22
so i'm just making this all up am i Horgan?

the fact that you believe only Officers command men shows how little you understand about the modern military and how redundency is built into everything we do - and that includes having the Boss of a platoon taken out where his SNCO will take command of the men.

we always train 'one up' and in any promotion course exercises where Corporals become Platoon Sergeants and Sergeants will become Platoon Commanders - so we can all do the job of - wait for it - "commanding men".

but i'm glad you said you won't listen to me so be a good lad and put me on your ignore list please.

now excuse me while i command my men on this journey from Northern Ireland to our base in the England, and guess what - our Boss remained in England - how did we ever get this far without him?!

Hi RGJ,
You are putting words in my mouth- what I did was quote General Sir Michael Jackson and Captain Patrick Hennessy who I know for a fact have distinguished military careers and substantial real combat experience. Please read Jackson's paper and stop trying to be too clever by half-we all have access to the thinking of the men on the ground such as Jackson and Hennessy, they have walked the walk so can talk the talk.

timhorgan
16th May 2011, 17:28
Congratulations on the promotion Jungle.

As for "NCOs, in general terms, do not command soldiers"; it would be my experience that while an officer may well be in charge, I as a Private soldier (or indeed a Signaller) would very much be under the command of my NCOs.

I believe George S. Patton said it best.....

"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results."


S & S,
I fully agree with as Gen. M. Jackson also outlines in his excellent paper:



There are many ways of describing the role of the NCO and the place he holds in the Army. In simplistic terms the commissioned officer leads, commands and directs; the
NCO organises and administers and the soldier executes.

timhorgan
16th May 2011, 17:31
The best comparison I saw with civvy street is NCOs are supervisors, Officers are management.

GF,
Another comparison might be that of Doctor and Nurse- both professionals but with clearly defined roles.

RoyalGreenJacket
16th May 2011, 17:41
they have walked the walk so can talk the talk.

elaborate on this please Horgan.

does not serving in Afghanistan exclude me from 'walking the walk' or even 'talking the talk' for that matter?

i guess my experience in Iraq or two tours of Bosnia, nearly 7 years in Northern Ireland tempered by 22 years colour service as a serving SNCO is not a patch on your boat service in Rhodesia.

i am soon to be posted back to battalion to serve in Afghanistan, but i have already 'walked the walk' - just down many different paths.

what ever will you do when i have served there?

Hello Alaska
16th May 2011, 17:52
i am soon to be posted back to battalion to serve in Afghanistan.


Enjoy it mate, I'm rather jealous.

hptmurphy
16th May 2011, 18:02
Officially, I will be commissioned in the rank of Second-Lieutenant, with simultaneous promotion to Captain.

I will enter the promotion zone to Major 4 years after, and nothing is stopping me from going up in rank. I will never command a Rifle Coy or an Infantry Battalion, but pretty much everything else is open.

Seems fair enough, seems the system takes your track record and proven abilities into consideration in your promotion the fact that you won't be capped.

Used to be the case here that CFRs were non staff qualified and held at Cmdt or Lt. Cdr even though they may have held posts above the rank.

I believe that CFRS can now be staff qualified these days although I don't know of anyone who crossed over the line.


i guess my experience in Iraq or two tours of Bosnia, nearly 7 years in Northern Ireland tempered by 22 years colour service

the 7 years in NI is very poignant when you put it into perspective..one third of your career .

What was the lenght of tours in Iraq and Bosnia just to quantify how much time you have spent away from home so to speak.

I think that alone would shut some up when it comes to comitment to the job and experience gained.

DeV
16th May 2011, 18:37
Seems fair enough, seems the system takes your track record and proven abilities into consideration in your promotion the fact that you won't be capped.

Used to be the case here that CFRs were non staff qualified and held at Cmdt or Lt. Cdr even though they may have held posts above the rank.

I believe that CFRS can now be staff qualified these days although I don't know of anyone who crossed over the line.


The most recent course had modules to qualify them as Adjutant etc


http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/showthread.php?t=10943&highlight=CFR

RoyalGreenJacket
16th May 2011, 19:49
the 7 years in NI is very poignant when you put it into perspective..one third of your career .

What was the lenght of tours in Iraq and Bosnia just to quantify how much time you have spent away from home so to speak.

I think that alone would shut some up when it comes to comitment to the job and experience gained.

Iraq was a 6 monther, so was Bosnia (twice). i also served for 4 months in the Falklands aswell as 3 tours of 6 weeks each in Jordan, aswell as a month in Italy and weeks here and there all over Europe, aswell as 6 months in Canada from where i have just come back, aswell as 3 other tours of 2 months each out there and not forgetting 2 tours of Cyprus - each of 2 and a half years and 4 years in Germany. oh and there was 2 months in Kenya too.

not to mention the amount of time spent on exercise or on build-up training for operations in other barracks away from home.

in all i spent only 2 years of my first 10 years in England and also only the past 2 years in England with 2 years in Wales before that.

a total of only 6 years of my 22 years service have been in Great Britain, 17 of those years as a an NCO, not worth jack sh|t though to certain people who 'talk the talk' but will never ever 'walk the walk' of any military service.

GoneToTheCanner
16th May 2011, 20:12
Let's get back to basics, shall we? Go for a Commission anyday, instead of joining the enlisted ranks. You bear more responsibility but earn far more, enjoy much better terms and conditions, will recieve much, much greater opportunities for sport,education , promotion and advancement, overseas tours (and jollies on the State nipple;)) and will automatically be treated with a much greater level of personal respect. You'll earn it but will gain entry into a superb post-Service network, which will ease you into a good number when you leave.
regards
GttC

The real Jack
16th May 2011, 20:17
Do the DF ever pay for other ranks to do night courses/part time degrees?

Hello Alaska
16th May 2011, 20:26
Do the DF ever pay for other ranks to do night courses/part time degrees?

Yes, there's a yearly allowance given to each Brigade from which personnel can recieve funding for earning a degree, doing a course etc.

I don't think they pay the full amount of fee's but they certainly cover some.

The real Jack
16th May 2011, 20:27
Yes, there's a yearly allowance given to each Brigade from which personnel can recieve funding for earning a degree, doing a course etc.

I don't think they pay the full amount of fee's but they certainly cover some.

Fair enough, so thats why so many bods do the physio night courses etc.

spaceghetti
16th May 2011, 21:07
The best comparison I saw with civvy street is NCOs are supervisors, Officers are management.


GF,
Another comparison might be that of Doctor and Nurse- both professionals but with clearly defined roles.

I've always thought of enlisted vs commissioned to be like a family.

The officers are the parents who look after all the bills and boring stuff while all enlisted folks are children.

The older children are the NCO's who look after their younger brothers and sisters.

Being a child is way more fun :biggrin:

danno
17th May 2011, 00:06
Thanks Danno, you have the intelligence to understand the point that Patrick Hennessy was making so well, as was Gen.Jackson- both distinguished soldiers that we can relate to.
I find it interesting, but not surprising that some on here were in such a hurry to challenge a straightfoward discussion point made by Rudolf Neff who joined only recently - it seems some people like to hog every debate and pretend they know better than us as they have some experience in the BA. But they need to raise their game by some measure if they want me to listen to their view instead of the views of professional British soldiers with verifiable combat and leadership experience such as Hennessy or Jackson.

Danno-Thank you for understanding the subtleties of the arguments put forward by those two fine soldiers.
Rudolf-you are right -keep up the good work.

Tim,I was only stating what PH said,not a thesis on who can or cant post here
Are you sure Gen Jackson has any combat experience,if so it is not in his memoirs which do confirm him serving in hotspots but no actual contact.

timhorgan
19th May 2011, 09:57
elaborate on this please Horgan.

i am soon to be posted back to battalion to serve in Afghanistan, but i have already 'walked the walk' - just down many different paths.

what ever will you do when i have served there?

You may not even need to go. There is talk of deploying TA battalions now to Afghanistan, enabling the tired and overstretched regular force to reconstitute. The UKSF have led the way here already.

The argument is to avoid a repeat of the too-hasty "exit" from Maysan in Iraq. As we all know, the "rushed" departure there let to a 5-fold increase in the flow of Iranian mines to Baghdad with a horrific rise in US casualties.

This was followed by a race from Basra before the job was done. The US does not want a repeat of Basra where the situation was saved by tough US combat Teams and "The Charge of the Knights".




what ever will you do when i have served there?

I will read it with interest but when I need to make up my mind I will rely on the professonal papers produced for RUSI etc. and keep up to date with the sitreps.


In the meantime, if you do go, I wish you safe home.
An Irish Blessing -A Blessing from St. Patrick

May the road rise to meet you,
May the wind be always at your back,
May the sun shine warm upon your face,
May the rains fall soft upon your fields,
And, until we meet again,
May God hold you in the hollow of His hand.


2 notes:
1). This is a genuine Irish salutation- the "ndeiri an bothar leat" bit is integral- I did not choose the blessing because of that-it is a phrase we still use in Kerry.
2). On a more light-hearted note- if a strange man offers you a McFlurry icecream and a lift in his nice Jackal, decline politely and walk. Tell him your mammy said never to take lifts from strange men- and the exercise will do you good.

DeV
19th May 2011, 18:35
MOD: Keep to the thread or points will be issued!