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easyrider
27th April 2010, 10:09
The UK has selected the Austrian/Spanish ASCOD Uhlan/Pizarro AFV to replace the Scimitar CVR(T). (General Dynamics owns the Austrian and Spanish companies involved, so in the UK it will be known as a GD vehicle.)

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ascod/images/new2.jpg

The Scimitar is an 8 tonne light tank with a crew of 3, whereas the ASCOD is a 30 tonne AFV with a crew of 3 and an 8-man infantry section. Seems like the ASCOD is much more like a Warrrior than a Scimitar.

http://www.chieftainmodels.co.uk/images/fv107_scimitar-0.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/warrior/images/warrior1.jpg

Is this just a new toy for the toffs in the pointless cavalry regiments? Why isn't the ASCOD to replace the Warrior? Maybe some of our resident British Army recruiting sergeants could explain?

Aidan
27th April 2010, 11:20
The version to be purchased by the UK is actually 4 separate vehicles.

The Scimitar is seen as too light to offer any real protection against IED type threats, to be too small to carry a proper sensor fit, and too lightly armoured and armed to get itself out of trouble.

The thinking is that the larger chassis can carry more armour, more electronics, and offers a far superior platform for sensors. As well as carrying a 40mm gun, in a properly stabilised turret with a modern sight fit. Apparently the ASCOD, in some versions, will actually weigh up to 40 tonnes in BA service.

The Americans have been using a version of the Bradley as a Recce track for decades, there should be no great surprise that the UK are following a similar pattern.

easyrider
27th April 2010, 12:07
But in that case, why not replace Scimitar with Warrior? Isn't Warrior going to be upgraded - new turret, new gun etc.? Or is the ASCOD going to replace Warrior also? The US Army uses the Bradley both as an infantry and a recce IFV, but it seems the Brits are going to have two different but similar vehicles - doesn't seem to be very efficient.

paul g
27th April 2010, 13:16
ASCOD SV will actually be a big development over the original ASCOD, new power pack comes from the German Puma vehicle for example.

As for them not using Warriors, its almost 20 years since they were in production, the assembly line has long gone as warrior didn't fare well in the export market, and resurecting an old design wasn't worth it, especially as the ascod offered more potential for growth. For example its turret ring is larger than the warrior.

it is intended to have a complete family of vehicles, block one is just the beginning, including a version with a 120mm gun in the medium armour role, which will weigh over 40 tonnes, with an AVLB, hence why its a lot bigger.

However, there are no orders as yet, and after the election it might be canceled.

easyrider
27th April 2010, 15:41
....
it is intended to have a complete family of vehicles, block one is just the beginning, including a version with a 120mm gun in the medium armour role, which will weigh over 40 tonnes, with an AVLB, hence why its a lot bigger....

Challenger replacement? So different variants of one vehicle will fulfil tank, IFV and recce roles?


.... However, there are no orders as yet, and after the election it might be canceled.

Everything will be cancelled after the election. :rolleyes:

paul g
27th April 2010, 16:09
Challenger replacement? So different variants of one vehicle will fulfil tank, IFV and recce roles?



Everything will be cancelled after the election. :rolleyes:

Nope, it not a challenger replacement, its a replacement for the scimitars in the medium armoured squadrons in MBT roled regiments. the five MBT regiments the british have all have three MBT squadrons, and a Squadron of Scimitars.

challenger is getting the Rheinmetall 120mm gun, and is being updated.

There is going to be a strategic defence review after the british election, and lots of things are going to be up for review, one of them being FRES and the survival of the british army's heavy armour force, the others being Trident, the Carriers, the 25000 troops in germany, F-35, some have even suggested the survival of the RAF as an independent service is up for grabs.

X-RayOne
27th April 2010, 16:14
The Scimitar is seen as too light to offer any real protection against IED type threats, to be too small to carry a proper sensor fit, and too lightly armoured and armed to get itself out of trouble.

taking that further...and closer to home also. all the above stands for the scorpion then also.

time to retire it off and go with something that integrates better with our current cavalry fleet and still fulfills role??

paul g
27th April 2010, 16:17
taking that further...and closer to home also. all the above stands for the scorpion then also.

time to retire it off and go with something that integrates better with our current cavalry fleet and still fulfills role??

its called the Mowag MRV

X-RayOne
27th April 2010, 16:35
...so thats a yes then! :rolleyes: i am aware of the MRV.

the point being the scorpion is being kept for what reason exactly?

it isn't suitable for deployment (except down o'connell st on parades) and doesn't have the capability of the rest of the cav recce fleet.

the arguement of keeping tracked vehicles for the experience gained doesn't hold water. we haven't bought tracked vehicles in decides and aren't likely to the way the DF is structured. the same arguement could have been made for jets in the air corps but the fougas were got rid of and they restructured towards the roles they developed i.e. more heli ops.

better to use the money thescorpions expand on more suitable vehicles, perhaps other mowag MRVs or another variant? or something else?

paul g
27th April 2010, 16:47
All depends on what happens to the Cav corps in the next white paper, and if we end up with an ISTAR battalion to replace the present set up.

As for keeping the scorpions, there is also the question of the df wishing to retain the basics of a Direct fire support capability, a training tool and the billets up at the AC squadron. But without an upgrade they're pretty useless,

Portugal have just ordered some OTO melara 105mm turrets for their Pandurs for example , and we might do the same eventually.


i

X-RayOne
27th April 2010, 17:07
possibly regarding direct fire support capability....but no use having it if they can't deploy.

and it could also be provided on a wheeled, modern, well protected chassis. cheaper also.

RoyalGreenJacket
27th April 2010, 17:54
easyrider - i was only 'Armoured Infantry' for a short while so i'm not the best man to comment on this subject however i know the Scimitar has been 'Left Out of Battle' in many instances in Afghan for some of the reasons Aidan rightly pointed out.

our battalions Scorpions were upgraded to Sabres - great bits of kit, low profile and go anywhere.

however new this new platform will provide a much better base for enhanced sensors coming into service as well has having a pretty decent low profile turret.

if it's good at what it does and beat the Warrior in trials then so be it.

as for why it was chosen instead of the Warrior - only those trialling it will truly know.

seems a decent bit of kit tho - will be good to have some more of these on the battlefield again.

Goldie fish
27th April 2010, 19:07
The Scorp was never deployable, recently due to the fact it had a thirsty petrol engine while the rest had diesel. Before thet, the AML90 had a better bang than the weak 76mm.

When it comes to offroad performance though, the scorp nails it, indeed it could be said that a tracked AFV would be able to continue during Chad's rainy season, where the Mowags would have difficulty.
It looks as if light recce will be done by the RG32M from now on, with the Mowag bringing a bigger bang to the game. But the upper end of the scale, once carried by the AML 90 is still to be filled, and it would make sense to have a tracked AFV, should a Scorp replacement be considered.

Border Bunny
27th April 2010, 20:59
i know the Scimitar has been 'Left Out of Battle' in many instances in Afghan for some of the reasons Aidan rightly pointed out.

Will it not be better to keep the Scimitar and have the Jackal 'Left Out of Battle'?

The Scimitar is not much more in weight or size over the Jackal and can be transported by the same RAF aircraft.
They have both the same 3 man crew.
Better allround armour on the Scimitar.
More firepower, 30mm auto cannon and 7.62mm MG Vs .5 MG/40mm AGL and 7,62mm MG.
Better off road performance and similer offroad speed.

SwiftandSure
27th April 2010, 21:14
Will it not be better to keep the Scimitar and have the Jackal 'Left Out of Battle'?

The Scimitar is not much more in weight or size over the Jackal and can be transported by the same RAF aircraft.
They have both the same 3 man crew.
Better allround armour on the Scimitar.
More firepower, 30mm auto cannon and 7.62mm MG Vs .5 MG/40mm AGL and 7,62mm MG.
Better off road performance and similer offroad speed.

Anti-Jackal and an interest in the Rhodesian Bush War...... You seem very familiar for a new member.

Welcome to the board

paul g
27th April 2010, 21:24
.

if it's good at what it does and beat the Warrior in trials then so be it.

as for why it was chosen instead of the Warrior - only those trialling it will truly know.

seems a decent bit of kit tho - will be good to have some more of these on the battlefield again.

Those trialing it would be surprised to find that it was better than the warrior, as the warrior hasn't been built in over 15 years, andwasn't entered in trials where that the only two entrants were the ASCOD 2 and CV-90.

Border Bunny
27th April 2010, 21:38
Anti-Jackal and an interest in the Rhodesian Bush War...... You seem very familiar for a new member.

Welcome to the board

Thanks for the welcome SwiftandSure.

Im not Anti-Jackal (or similar vehicles) but I think the Scimitar can fill the Jackals roles and be better at it.

SwiftandSure
27th April 2010, 21:46
Thanks for the welcome SwiftandSure.

Im not Anti-Jackal (or similar vehicles) but I think the Scimitar can fill the Jackals roles and be better at it.

Would the Scimitar not be a lot bigger than the Jackal, more cumbersome for the purposes of transport and a lot louder in the field? What's the range of each vehicle?

RoyalGreenJacket
27th April 2010, 21:54
i'm not getting into the whole Jackal thingy again but the Jackal is about the air in your face, situational awareness and eye contact with the locals as well as a stable support weapons platform - Scimitar doesn't offer this and either will it's replacement.

different kettles of fish.

paul g
27th April 2010, 21:54
The Scorp was never deployable, recently due to the fact it had a thirsty petrol engine while the rest had diesel. Before thet, the AML90 had a better bang than the weak 76mm.

When it comes to offroad performance though, the scorp nails it, indeed it could be said that a tracked AFV would be able to continue during Chad's rainy season, where the Mowags would have difficulty.
It looks as if light recce will be done by the RG32M from now on, with the Mowag bringing a bigger bang to the game. But the upper end of the scale, once carried by the AML 90 is still to be filled, and it would make sense to have a tracked AFV, should a Scorp replacement be considered.

The only thing about buying a tracked vehicle to replace the scorpion is the numbers you'd have to buy.

An intresting comparison is with Denmark, who have got a troop of Four leopard 2's deployed to Afghanistan. In their recent white paper they've re-structured their tank fleet to one regiment and will keep 34 leopard 2's operational, as that is the amount of tanks they need, allowing for training etc, to deploy one troop of just four tanks overseas.

The canadians, who just want to deploy a squadron of about 20, argue that they need over 100 leopard 2's.

Closer to home, look at the number of Mowags needed to ensure that there is an infantry company available for overseas.

I'm not denying that there is a need for a direct fire support vehicle to replace the AML-90and that a tracked vehicle might be better than a wheeled one, but the politicians ain't going to buy them.

the only thing about the ASCOD 2 is that its not going to be in service for another 5 years, and won't be available for export ufor a few years after that. it,

SwiftandSure
27th April 2010, 22:03
Just compared the two via the medium of wiki, and the scimitar is over a ton heavier than the Jackal, is longer and wider than the Jackal and only capable of 80kmph, compared to the Jackal's 130kmph.
The armour on the Jackal looks a lot more modular, compared to the Scimitar, thus easier to repair and replace.
The Jackal's primary and secondary weapon systems can operate independantly of each other, whereas the Scimitar's weapon systems are both directed by the turret.
The Jackal appears to offer more situational awareness than the Scimitar.
A tyre is easier to change than a track too.

These are just observations, I've never worked on either vehicle (well, had a jolly in a scimitar once); but from first impressions the Jackal is far better suited for operational purpose than the Scimitar, which would explain why the Brits have left them in the garages.

Following on from what RGJ said, let's not turn this into yet another pissing contest

paul g
27th April 2010, 22:29
Just compared the two via the medium of wiki, and the scimitar is over a ton heavier than the Jackal, is longer and wider than the Jackal and only capable of 80kmph, compared to the Jackal's 130kmph.

Following on from what RGJ said, let's not turn this into yet another pissing contest

The Scimitars have recently been upgraded and now come in at more than 15 tonnes, a lot heavier than the Jackal.

SwiftandSure
27th April 2010, 22:32
The Scimitars have recently been upgraded and now come in at more than 15 tonnes, a lot heavier than the Jackal.

All the more reason to leave them behind, imagine trying to recover that lump!!

easyrider
27th April 2010, 22:40
Couple of thoughts: how come the ASCOD won against the CV90? Anyone know? Was it capability or costs or politics? and would it not be a good idea to include a couple of Javelin ATGM launchers on the ASCOD SV turret, same as Bradleys have a TOW launcher?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/CSA-2005-10-03-101023.jpg/781px-CSA-2005-10-03-101023.jpg

ZULU
28th April 2010, 09:43
.

we haven't bought tracked vehicles in decides and aren't likely to the way the DF is structured.



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4250867624_e1107be59c.jpg

Aidan
28th April 2010, 10:01
I think the point remains though - the army seems to be firmly wedded to the PIII chassis for the foreseeable future. It makes sense too - rather than try and mimic a range of capabilities and actually attain none of them, they've tried to push for a relatively easily deployed force that can be used in a range of scenarios, albeit with a limited role in high intensity warfare. Then again, just how likely is that?

The figures for the ASCOD suggest that they'll run to about €3m per, and more for a higher end one. And to add to that, they would be far more expensive to run, not least due to the need for transporters to move them around. The Army can probably get at least 2 MRV Piranhas for that price, and the whole of life costs are probably cheaper still.

A tracked vehicle like this has a lot going for it, and this kind of capacity would be a welcome addition for the DF, but it is very difficult to justify given the nature of the gaps elsewhere. That said, if someone was shooting at me, I know which one I'd rather be in!

X-RayOne
28th April 2010, 12:27
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4250867624_e1107be59c.jpg

yes we do have these......but they are not frontline fighting vehicles.

you're comparing apples with oranges there.

the scorpions are supposedto be front line cav recce vehicles...however as has been said are unsuitable for their role and as aidan stated the DF have moved in another direction for armoured vehicles.

plus as has been stated the numbers required for a tracked armour capability realistically rule out any meaningfull future purchase....unless somebody decides we are going to have a token effort or strong paper army.

ZULU
28th April 2010, 12:39
On 27 March 2008 the Dutch Parliament decided in favour of sending a 60 men strong Marine reconnaissance unit to Chad in support of the EUFOR peacekeeping mission in the region. The marines will function as the eyes and ears of an Irish battalion. This will be the first operational deployment of the BvS 10 Viking in Dutch service after exercises in Norway and the UK


I understand what your saying XR1

I'd be in favour of MRV as opposed to scorpions or if they want to keep tracked vehicles go down the SRT Bronco route.

X-RayOne
28th April 2010, 12:51
lol...fair enough!

but wouldn't want to be trying to keep up with a mowag in it:)

ZULU
28th April 2010, 13:50
Neither would I.

Can our MOWAGS swim?

Barry
2nd May 2010, 22:23
No matter how crap you might think scorpions are, seems the Brits are making more CVR(T)s: http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=148882.html

RoyalGreenJacket
3rd May 2010, 00:06
No matter how crap you might think scorpions are, seems the Brits are making more CVR(T)s: http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=148882.html

wow - i didn't see that one coming!

turbocalves
3rd May 2010, 00:22
wow - i didn't see that one coming!

you'll hear it though :P

RoyalGreenJacket
3rd May 2010, 09:44
you'll hear it though :P

nah - CVRT's can sneak up on ya!

nothing compared to the earth rumbling noise of a Chally2 as it approaches then drives over your trench as you pray you rivetted it well enough so the walls don't collapse on you!

i don't miss those days!

timhorgan
3rd May 2010, 10:41
Nope, it not a challenger replacement, its a replacement for the scimitars in the medium armoured squadrons in MBT roled regiments. the five MBT regiments the british have all have three MBT squadrons, and a Squadron of Scimitars.

challenger is getting the Rheinmetall 120mm gun, and is being updated.

There is going to be a strategic defence review after the british election, and lots of things are going to be up for review, one of them being FRES and the survival of the british army's heavy armour force, the others being Trident, the Carriers, the 25000 troops in germany, F-35, some have even suggested the survival of the RAF as an independent service is up for grabs.

Paul G,
The Swedes and the Swiss seem to have arrived at a slightly different conclusions with the CV90.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAqw5-6h-1Q



Tim

paul g
3rd May 2010, 12:28
Paul G,
The Swedes and the Swiss seem to have arrived at a slightly different conclusions with the CV90.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAqw5-6h-1Q



Tim

CV-90 was the competitor for FRES SV, ASCOD 2 I believe outperformed it both as as vehicle in the british trials, but also in terms of industrial offset. BAE were reduced to mounting a propaganda campaign in the british media about the decision, giving the impression that it would remove the british manufacturing capability in AFV, but failing to point out that BAE were planning to build the CV-90 hulls for the british army in Sweden.

the basic ASCOD performed quite well in trials, the new one has the power pack and transmission the germans developed for their Puma AFV, and is an all round better vehicle than the CV-90

As for restarting CVR(T) production, FRES isn't going to be available till 2015 at the earliest, and there is a need for the vehicle. The CVR(T) are not only getting on in age ( they were delivered between 1972 and 1986), but have been heavily modified from the original design. It makes perfect sense to build new hulls, as an interim measure, which take into account lessons learnt from recent operations.

easyrider
3rd May 2010, 16:09
......
the basic ASCOD performed quite well in trials, the new one has the power pack the germans developed for their Puma AFV, and is an all round better vehicle than the CV-90

As for restarting CVR(T) production, FRES isn't going to be available till 2015 at the earliest, and there is a need for the vehicle. The CVR(T) are not only getting on in age ( they were delivered between 1972 and 1986), but have been heavily modified from the original design. It makes perfect sense to build new hulls, as an interim measure, which take into account lessons learnt from recent operations.


So the ASCOD will have a German engine and a German turret.... At least the paintwork will be British.

Restarting Scimitar production is a complete waste of taxpayers' money. Scimitars are mainly used in the five (?) so-called "formation reconnaissance regiments" (=cavalry). Most of those regiments are not needed. A squadron of Scimitars is the most that has deployed overseas at any one time.

RoyalGreenJacket
3rd May 2010, 16:57
i don't know much about the ASCOD as the new kid on the block but i still like the Warrior and whilst i know they are tasked with different roles for us i still reckon this is a good bit of kit:

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i wonder if we will see their roles overlap at all?

more likely to see an ASCOD as a Battle Taxi than a Warrior as a Recce platform i suppose.

paul g
3rd May 2010, 19:00
So the ASCOD will have a German engine and a German turret.... At least the paintwork will be British.

Restarting Scimitar production is a complete waste of taxpayers' money. Scimitars are mainly used in the five (?) so-called "formation reconnaissance regiments" (=cavalry). Most of those regiments are not needed. A squadron of Scimitars is the most that has deployed overseas at any one time.

the M-1 Abrams has british designed armour, a german main gun and belgian machine guns, but few would say its not an american tank. Very few "national" AFV designs anymore.

As for restarting the CVR(T) production, its only the hulls. You've got to remember that the hulls were built in the 1970's and 1980's, they're of the same vintage as our AML-90/20. Again you've got to remember that the ASCOD SV is not going to be ready till 2015, or probably later, and they've got to deploy something before that. Buying new hulls and putting the turrets, which have been updated, on them, is a good interim solution.

I would have said that reconnaissance/ISTAR is far more important now then it was twenty or so years ago, hence why the british have five reconnaissance regiments. If you look at the DF, look at the amount of resources and effort they've put into training and equpiment on the ISTAR role in the past five years.

DeV
3rd May 2010, 20:48
Again you've got to remember that the ASCOD SV is not going to be ready till 2015, or probably later, and they've got to deploy something before that.

Why it is an off the shelf purchase ? or are they putting lots of Made in Britain stuff in it?!

RoyalGreenJacket
3rd May 2010, 20:59
Why it is an off the shelf purchase ? or are they putting lots of Made in Britain stuff in it?!

Dev - we can't even buy chocolate off the shelf without b@stardising it for the Army!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2589/4157563374_48a2b4440e.jpg

but fair point mate - if we can get UOR's in pretty quickly then why the 5 year wait for this?

turbocalves
3rd May 2010, 22:21
nah - CVRT's can sneak up on ya!

I once had the interesting experience of hearing a Scorp at about 500m, It sounded like a gang of Harleys graping a Honda 50....

where as i nearly got run over by a panhard the thing was so so queit....

Goldie fish
3rd May 2010, 22:26
The main difference there was the Panhard engine is at the rear, while the scorp has the big lump of petrol burner up front next to the driver.

paul g
3rd May 2010, 22:33
Why it is an off the shelf purchase ? or are they putting lots of Made in Britain stuff in it?!


Why it is an off the shelf purchase ? or are they putting lots of Made in Britain stuff in it?!

Basically there are no factories left in the Uk that actually make AFV anymore. All being closed down, with the BAE plant in Newcastle only carrying out repair work

The idea is that the bare vehicles will be build by Santa Barbara in Spain,

They'll be shipped to wales, where the turret and many of the other systems will be built and will be fitted

From there they'll move to Donnington in Shropshire, where all the systems will fitted together and where long term support will be carried out.

about 73% of the vehicle will contain systems made in the uk.


Its also important to remember that only a contract for development has been signed, there have been no orders.

there is nothing to prevent the deal being cancelled. They might decide on Jackal and new CVR(T). A lot will depend in the strategic defence review, if the heavy armour force goes along with the BAOR, then FRES SV looks a bit cold war like.

RoyalGreenJacket
3rd May 2010, 22:35
thanks Paul G - you are all over this stuff.

GoneToTheCanner
4th May 2010, 08:51
A Panhard? Quiet? Not the M3, surely. It was about as quiet as an Alouette and they had a noise signature like an alarm-bell having sexual relations with a cement mixer.
regards
GttC

turbocalves
4th May 2010, 12:38
A Panhard? Quiet? Not the M3, surely.
regards
GttC

Sorry boss i'm a young lad (ish) M3 was before my time....

It was an AML, after the diesel conversions- though I'd say the loudest thing I ever heard was the 20mm canon letting loose, I was up in Knickeen minding a gate once when i heard this huge rap rap rap rap and fcuk me was it loud-
This is coming for somebody who fired the old Brandt 120 mortars, 25pdrs and long and short 105's. The 20mm was way louder, though this might be because i wasnt expecting it

RoyalGreenJacket
1st July 2010, 13:06
this is what we are getting, the MoD signed a £500Million contract today for the new Scimitar replacement to be called 'Scout':

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/948978CF-E76D-41A7-B6ED-050E5BECBD95/0/ASCOD_5.jpg

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0E2A1FA6-D5B8-4230-99EB-8FF54D12C9C9/0/ASCOD_2.jpg

it's a design derived form the successful ASCOD.

Read more here: www - British Army Scout (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/EquipmentAndLogistics/ModSignsContractForNewArmouredVehicle.htm)

Goldie fish
1st July 2010, 13:13
Cavalry Fighting Vehicle it is then.

paul g
1st July 2010, 15:00
Cavalry Fighting Vehicle it is then.

nope,

what RGJ failed to point out is that they've only ordered 7 as prototypes, and the project is still under review.

Given that cuts of 25% are going ahead in the uk across the board, its likely to be binned

DeV
1st July 2010, 16:47
this is what we are getting, the MoD signed a £500Million contract today for the new Scimitar replacement to be called 'Scout':

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/948978CF-E76D-41A7-B6ED-050E5BECBD95/0/ASCOD_5.jpg

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0E2A1FA6-D5B8-4230-99EB-8FF54D12C9C9/0/ASCOD_2.jpg

it's a design derived form the successful ASCOD.

Read more here: www - British Army Scout (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/EquipmentAndLogistics/ModSignsContractForNewArmouredVehicle.htm)


RGJ why are they looking to replace the Scimitar with the Austrian/Spain equivalent of a Warrior? Ie an IFV/MCV

RoyalGreenJacket
1st July 2010, 17:31
this stuff isn't really my bag but i'm guessing the plethora of ISTAR and COMMS and ECM equipment is growing and a chassis like this allows it to be fitted and operated comfortably. our Recce Platoon often commented on how cramped and crowded their Sabres were.

although the low profile offered by the CVR-T family was one of it's strengths, this vehicle no longer offers that advantage.

if i find out anymore i'll let you know.

RoyalGreenJacket
12th September 2014, 23:48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yYHLcXZa_Y

DeV
28th August 2016, 09:39
http://www.baesystems.com/en/download-en/20151124114403/1434555553639.pdf

Were all the 50 Scimitar Mk2's sold?

spider
28th August 2016, 11:40
http://www.baesystems.com/en/download-en/20151124114403/1434555553639.pdf

Were all the 50 Scimitar Mk2's sold?

Not sure but CVRT (T) Scimitars are still used by three armoured recce regiments.

paul g
28th August 2016, 22:14
They are still in use and will be until Fres cones into use.