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  • CIT

    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Don't they realise that the cash they protect is what we use, not the greedy bankers?
    Nope.

    The just see Garda and army driving by with big truck and think f-them.
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

  • #2
    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Don't they realise that the cash they protect is what we use, not the greedy bankers?
    Originally posted by luchi View Post
    Nope.

    The just see Garda and army driving by with big truck and think f-them.
    in all fairness lads - Ireland is hardly the "Wild West" (not yet anyhow) and i'm not convinced the army should escort CIT - i don't see any other country doing it, not even in South Africa where it was proposed but never implemented.

    the old IRA thingy just doesn't wash anymore.

    i thought the banks paid for all this anyhow but i guess given the bail-out this may not continue in principal, or practice.
    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 26 November 2010, 03:27.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
      the old IRA thingy just doesn't wash anymore.
      No now there are new IRAs - CIRA & RIRA - eg Northern Bank robbery

      There is a substantial threat from organised crime (who are heavily armed (some have RPGs!)). No CIT escort has every been targeted (to the best of my knowledge).

      i thought the banks paid for all this anyhow but i guess given the bail-out this may not continue in principal, or practice.
      They do now!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        No now there are new IRAs - CIRA & RIRA - eg Northern Bank robbery

        There is a substantial threat from organised crime (who are heavily armed (some have RPGs!)). No CIT escort has every been targeted (to the best of my knowledge).
        I think RGJ has a good point. Whilst there are still armed robberies, when it comes to gaining access to the contents of an armoured vehicle, the trend seems to be more along the lines of tiger kidnapping rather than taking on an armoured car or armed patrol head on.

        Armed escorts of CITs is more for aesthetics than anything else.

        Comment


        • #5
          A gentle reminder. There is to be no Operational discussion of CIT about types, sizes, methods etc
          "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

          "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
            rather than taking on an armoured car or armed patrol head on.

            Armed escorts of CITs is more for aesthetics than anything else.
            Every think the reason it isn't attended is that armed personnel are there.

            There have been attempts to ambushes armoured cars in the past, three notable examples:

            - Wicklow - the day of the blue flu, the Gardai shot at least 1 IRA member (I think it was after the GFA) was shot dead by Gardai

            - Adare - an armed Garda was murdered by the IRA during an attempted armed raid on a post office truck

            - Killiney/Dalkey around 4/5 years ago, there was an attempt to ram an armoured car

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DeV View Post
              Every think the reason it isn't attended is that armed personnel are there.

              There have been attempts to ambushes armoured cars in the past, three notable examples:

              - Wicklow - the day of the blue flu, the Gardai shot at least 1 IRA member (I think it was after the GFA) was shot dead by Gardai

              - Adare - an armed Garda was murdered by the IRA during an attempted armed raid on a post office truck

              - Killiney/Dalkey around 4/5 years ago, there was an attempt to ram an armoured car
              Were any of those raids successful? Taking on an armoured car without an armed guard is a huge challenge in itself. I'm sure there's enough countermeasures, GPS and panic buttons to keep the van's contents and crew safe for at least an hour whilst they wait for help. The smart money is in fraud (and being in Government by the looks of it), but if it's the van you want, then tiger kidnapping is the proven method of successfully extracting it's contents.

              We're assuming criminals aren't attacking CIT trucks because there's a high profile armed deterrent, but I drove past an armoured truck this morning on the way to work and didn't think it looked at all vunerable, loaded or not.

              While I think it's good that the PDF are occupied doing CIT duties in lieu of no real operations ongoing, and being seen to be occupied by Joe Soap on the street, I don't think the duty is a necessary one.
              If someone is determined to rob an armoured van, they'll just attempt to rob one that's not escorted. The likelyhood of seeing something akin to the film HEAT in innercity Dublin, or anywhere for that matter is very remote.

              Comment


              • #8
                The likelyhood of seeing something akin to the film HEAT in innercity Dublin, or anywhere for that matter is very remote.
                Because they are escorted by the DF. Prior to those escorts going in, the likelihood was not remote.

                No messing, anyone here who served in the PDF or the GS will be able to give you fair chapter and vers.
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm quite uncomfortable with where this thread is going. We have some here giving reasons why criminals should or shouldnt rob a CiT, offering softer targets instead.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                    Because they are escorted by the DF. Prior to those escorts going in, the likelihood was not remote.

                    No messing, anyone here who served in the PDF or the GS will be able to give you fair chapter and vers.
                    If you say so, I'll take your word for it.

                    I just think there's enough armoured trucks driving around without escort, with just as suitable bounty inside, and I don't think anyone has blown the doors off one of them recently. All previous attempts, were just that, attempts, they didn't succeed (I'm open to correction on that.) as the vans are secure enough.

                    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                    I'm quite uncomfortable with where this thread is going. We have some here giving reasons why criminals should or shouldnt rob a CiT, offering softer targets instead.
                    Surely what I'm stating is common sense? I've never escorted CIT, or planned/attempted to breach or rob an armoured truck; so I'm merely stating the logical thought process of anyone without inside working knowledge of security protocols, military SOPs, or armoured vehicle build capability or counter-measures.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Off thread at least?
                      "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        True, I am off thread

                        Although the point remains, is it worth spending the taxpayers' money protecting the banks' vans? It's not like the banks spent anything to protect the taxpayers' interests

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
                          True, I am off thread

                          Although the point remains, is it worth spending the taxpayers' money protecting the banks' vans? It's not like the banks spent anything to protect the taxpayers' interests
                          They are not protecting the vans. The Gardai are protecting YOUR cash. The banks don't do business in cash, the public do(even though the bank would prefer we didn't).
                          If the van is empty no Gardai Protect it.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            look - if someone else is paying the FULL cost of Irish DF soldiers doing CIT well who cares - it's jobs for the boys and keeps them otherwise busy.

                            however, the IRA have operated on a scale hundreds if not thousands of times greater than they have in the Republic yet the British Army nor the RUC have never performed CIT, and the PSNI do not provide CIT escorts either except on very exceptional circumstances (i.e. millions / billions of raw currency entering the province.

                            the Northern Bank robbery robbery was not against CIT so is irrelevant in this subject.

                            whilst CIT by armed soldiers is an obvious deterrent, is still just jobs for the boys, Ireland is not that bad.

                            and remember - the banks money that pays for this is ultimately YOUR money, wouldn't you rather see it going back into your pocket rather than onto the street - literally?
                            Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 26 November 2010, 15:44.
                            RGJ

                            ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                            The Rifles

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
                              True, I am off thread

                              Although the point remains, is it worth spending the taxpayers' money protecting the banks' vans? It's not like the banks spent anything to protect the taxpayers' interests
                              not as far off thread as one might think.

                              the army costs 1% of GDP (just using figure above)

                              All it does, as far as joe public is concerned, is swan around protecting the banks money.

                              And if the bank is paying then the army should be cost neutral.

                              The country can save part of the 1% of GDP.

                              Ok so the AC is flying officials about but again they shouldn't be. (this is the public opinion as published in numerous new articles in the past year)

                              so there is another saving scrap the AC.

                              The only branch of the service that can really justify its existance is the NS. They have shown their value in many areas.

                              I know some of you will say "what about OS?".
                              Well what about it?
                              If i want to support OS developement and security there are plenty of organisations I can donate to. Why should i have to pay tax that supports an campaign if I would not normally support it?

                              btw CIT in other countries there is another thread that talks about that.
                              It might not obviously be the army escourting but it is either the army (eg Italy), armed police(eg Croatia) or armed civilian guards (eg USA). We are just more obviously using the army.
                              Without supplies no army is brave.

                              —Frederick the Great,

                              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                              Comment

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