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Paddy Mayne
31st January 2011, 23:14
Just a quick post

Thought I read somewhere that the Irish Army have ordered two new 8x8 Recovery trucks.
I believe they are meant to be off the same production line as that being produced for the British Army.
Below is a link for the vehicle (but no mention here of an Irish order)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35474261/Super-Compact-MAN-EKA-8-x-8-Recovery-Vehicle

Anyone else heard anything??

The real Jack
31st January 2011, 23:18
Think they might have been delivered, there was some pics of them floating around, Luchi will know more probably.

Truck Driver
1st February 2011, 03:38
I'm almost sure that Luchi posted photos of this vehicle somewhere in this thread

RoyalGreenJacket
1st February 2011, 05:52
while we are waiting for the pics of the Irish DF vehicles, i took this pic of one of ours looking lost and lonely in Desert Cam in the snow here in Canada:

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5613&stc=1&d=1296539489

i've heard good and bad things about them from the crew that operate them.

what are they actually replacing in the Irish DF?


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GoneToTheCanner
1st February 2011, 10:04
They have them.I saw one on it's way to the Glen.
regards
GttC

Goldie fish
1st February 2011, 10:05
They are replacing the Man 6x6 "Beast" that was bought in 1986 or thereabouts. There was also an Iveco 8x8 Astra, similar to the Iveco Drops, but i'd say it had all the other issues that Iveco had. I don't remember it being fitted with a crane either, just a spectacle lift and recovery winch, with a 15t Hiab.

luchi
1st February 2011, 10:49
I'm almost sure that Luchi posted photos of this vehicle somewhere in this thread

not me.


New MAN Recovery Vehicle
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/5078380119_7460f7c67d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/5078380119/)
Transport Corps Ex 2010 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/5078380119/) by dfmagazine.ie (http://www.flickr.com/people/dfmagazine/), on Flickr

Nice!

and


http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/5078335349/in/set-72157625156926558/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/5078376647/in/set-72157625156926558/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/5078971866/in/set-72157625156926558/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/5078380119/in/set-72157625156926558/


I was hoping Rex could get some more but I might get the opertunity myselfe soon!!

trellheim
1st February 2011, 11:58
Looking at those flickr sets, what was used to stack the containers 2 high ? I didn't think a regular DROPS could do that.

Goldie fish
1st February 2011, 12:29
Looking at those flickr sets, what was used to stack the containers 2 high ? I didn't think a regular DROPS could do that.

The crane on the new vehicle. However I wouldnt have thought they were full when the lift was done. The crane does not look like more than a 20 T. There is a photo of the lift elsewhere in that set.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4059/5078330825_2f37862b55.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/5078330825/)
Transport Corps Ex 2010 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/5078330825/) by Irish Defence Forces (http://www.flickr.com/people/dfmagazine/), on Flickr

REX
1st February 2011, 23:04
AFAIR only one has been delivered so far, but the second is due any day:biggrin:

RoyalGreenJacket
2nd February 2011, 01:47
nice pics lads, i am sure you will put them to good use wherever they end up in the future.

good kit, but MAN have been out here recently looking at ours and have left with a list of proposed modifications for them from soldier feedback.

luchi
2nd February 2011, 16:20
The crane does not look like more than a 20 T. There is a photo of the lift elsewhere in that set.

Container is only 15 T

Goldie fish
2nd February 2011, 16:39
Container is only 15 T

So?
A 20t crane can only lift 20t within its minimum working radius, ie, inside the stabilisers, or at the opposite radius from the ballast counterweight. At full extension you'd only lift about 1t at best.
There is usually important information stamped on the side of a crane about these things.

Don't mean to lecture, but it's worth knowing what a crane can lift before you expect it to lift something, i.e 7t TCV.


I hope you aren't a civil engineer;)

luchi
2nd February 2011, 21:58
i am, and if you use the search function you would see I explained, in even simpler terms, the same thing back when the 8x4s were bought.

I incidentally the 8x4 HIAB XS288EP-3 HiPRo has a 10,000kg lifting capacity at 2.3 metres and therefor would stack the empty ISO container.

Now if you look at the post above you will see the boom is only on first stage extension.
It also looks to me to be stronger than the HIAB but looks can be decieving.
also
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/5078329579/in/set-72157625156926558/ing

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5078329579_1712b47b01_z.jpg

this shows it is operating well within its stabilisers.
finally,
You said it looks like a 20T. what if its a 30 or 40 T???

So there is no reason to assume that the vehicle would not be capable of lifting a full contaner.

Goldie fish
2nd February 2011, 23:14
What's the Max Gross for a TEU again?18T is it? Presuming a full TEU is 18T you would need it to be at least 60T to lift with any degree of safety. The NS got caught out with their 90t Crane, which they wanted to lift a full TEU onto a ships deck, from the quayside. They were advised to go for a 200T, to allow a bit of extra scope. But the Minimum they required was a 90T and that is what they got.

The photo looks as if it is working just inside the stabilisers. It is unfortunate that the brochure for the vehicle does not include the Working Limits of its crane.

luchi
3rd February 2011, 14:34
To be sure.

But hopefully in the next couple of weeks I will be close enough to it to find out.

Well I will be in the area but it doesn't mean it will or I'll be alowed to get close enough.

Goldie fish
3rd February 2011, 14:47
I look forward to reading your report.

luchi
3rd February 2011, 14:54
BTW the DF gives MGCW as 15T due to the MPW of the Iveco DROPS being 16T (DROPS rack is 1T)
The Scania could take the extra 3T but then it wouldn't be street legal.

Goldie fish
3rd February 2011, 15:01
I understand the Iveco DROPS with trailer is already not street legal(loaded).

luchi
3rd February 2011, 15:35
Yes thats one of those interesting ones and its not just the Iveco.

The problem lies in the GTW of both being in excess of 50T.

However GTW for 5+ axle combi with 2 axle trainer is only 42T (assuming 3m spacing).
This would then mean that the trailer GVW can only be 10T and not 18T as it is for the OKM.
Now considering the ULW of the OKM is 5T and the container is about 2T that would make the PLW only 3T.
Hardly worth hooking up.

But real world the 15T plus rack 2T plus trailer 5T is what is pulled. This makes the vehicles GTW to be 54T. well within the DGTW of the Scania but 2T excess for the Iveco. But if the EMPL is used its only 0.5T over.

Now I am sure that although this would be exceeding the Irish C&U legislation it is ok in many countries and so all they need to do is get a Local Gov permit for here and all is ok to move.

Goldie fish
3rd February 2011, 16:08
I understand the reason the MPs suddenly got bikes with blue strobes is because a civvy vehicle of the same combination would require a garda escort.
The Iveco +trailer is just too long... Its a long time since I looked at my notes but I seem to remember a simple solution, which gave you an extra 5m leeway was if the trailer was 3 axle.

luchi
3rd February 2011, 16:30
Depends how you look at it.

If using the OKM trailer they are within the 18.75m max length but if they are using the EMPLs they are up to 1 m too long.

However if you consider the DROPS as a large tractor and are not driving through heavily populated areas then the max length is 22m and they are well within that.
But I am sure that the Df has secured permits to be over sized and nothing else would be required.

Goldie fish
3rd February 2011, 16:43
Of course they have secured permits...
in the same way as Pay section was deducting tax at source from members of the FCA....

luchi
3rd February 2011, 21:50
Sure its like the special midi-coach licence that the RDF drivers get.

Goldie fish
4th February 2011, 13:13
I noticed a pair of Scania DROPS with the Drawbar trailers(no dollie axle) This morning. Considerably shorter. Possibly much easier to manage on the road too. No escort/permit required.

On an unrelated note, where is the trailer plate chassis number found on these trailers?

luchi
4th February 2011, 14:30
I noticed a pair of Scania DROPS with the Drawbar trailers(no dollie axle)

Next time you see them try for a pic. The only trailers I know of are the EMPL and tne OKM which are 9 and 7.7m respectively
OKM is the drawbar trailer.


On an unrelated note, where is the trailer plate chassis number found on these trailers?
AFICR
LHS just behind the axle on EMPL.
LHS just infront of lead axle on OKM
On the semi trailers its LHS just behind the king pin.

Goldie fish
4th February 2011, 15:08
Unfortunately I only see them coming against me on my daily commute. We swap locations, they go to where I came from, and I go to where they came from....

luchi
4th February 2011, 15:51
Look here (http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_itemId=4274)
Left column 2nd row is the OKM

Goldie fish
4th February 2011, 16:10
Yeah, Could be, it had a 20 foot box on when it passed.

luchi
22nd February 2011, 00:14
I still haven't got close to the truck but I am told it is the same as the Brit one.
to that end



Powered by a 440Hp, 10.5litre, 6 cylinder turbo diesel engines, the new recovery vehicles will be a powerful replacement for the existing Foden fleet. They are fully compliant with the latest emissions legislation (Euro 4) without the need for fuel additives, and can also operate, without preparation, on aviation fuel. The vehicle has an 8x8 wheel drive and self levelling suspension to negotiate rough terrain. The vehicle can be fitted with appliqué armor packs to protect the crew from ballistic and blast threat. It also comes ready for a BOWMAN radio installation. The recovery mission equipment includes cranes and winches, designed by ECA based in Gerrads cross, London. It is manufactured and bolted to the main chassis by Atlas Terex, based in Motherwell, Scotland. The new recovery vehicle is capable of lifting 15 tons at a distance of 2.3 meters, and can tow a 44 ton vehicle.


http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5652&d=1298333433

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5653&stc=1&d=1298333444

Hopefully I will get our own up here too!!

Goldie fish
22nd February 2011, 10:35
So 15T at minimum boom extension.

luchi
23rd February 2011, 22:21
That depends on the spec. If it is 15T on beam then it is 2.3m from then CL of boom pivot. if it is off beam then it is 2.3m from the foot print of the vehicle with extended stabillisers. Both are with boom at full extension.

This makes a huge difference to what the vehicle can actually do.
But as was touched on earlier this would mean that the maximum ability of the crane and the vehicle would have to be at least 60T.

Also you will note it is the stated as "can lift" and not maximum lift. again this can be very different.
If you look at the media blurb on the Scania DROPS.
It says capable of lifting 15T and GVW of 32T. While it actually has DGVW of 41T and a max lift of 25T.

RoyalGreenJacket
21st March 2011, 04:48
two British Army MAN SV(R)'s lift an RAF Chinook:

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5682&stc=1&d=1300682868


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