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SwiftandSure
15th June 2011, 00:21
Hello, My name is SwiftandSure, and I am a Gucci-Kit Monster.

While I've mentioned the odd time on here the gear I have, I've never shown it on here. This is my CEFO for rifleman role, some of it I've had since I was 15 in the ACF, some from the BA, the rest I've bought and blagged for my time in the RDF.

I've posted it up as an example to some, whilst looking for constructive criticism myself. Plus most of us love to talk about kit one way or another.

The principles I've tried to work towards with my CEFO are as follows:

- Try to maintain as a low a profile on the front and back of the rig so that I can lay in the prone position, and sit in a vehicle seat.
- Keep weapons related gear on the left, and utility on the right.
- Have a trauma kit to hand
- Have navigational aides to hand.
- Be able to survive and fight for 24hrs without my daysack, and 48-72hrs with daysack.
- Daysack must have sufficient space to carry large SINCGAR + Batteries + Spare ancillaries. (I consider that the most bulky item to have to carry within the pack, so if I have space to pack that, I have space for spare link/ammo/pyro etc).
- The distribution of kit across the rig has been designed that if I don't need it bugging out or assaulting a position, then it goes in the daysack. I want to be as light on my feet as possible.
- There must be space available on rig to fit a Marconi PRR.

So here it is...

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5858&stc=1&d=1308088393

Chest Rig
Warrior Assault Systems (WAS) Centurion Chest Rig. Working left to right, I have a WAS fold out dump pouch, 2x WAS Smoke Grenade pouches, on the left is a WAS medic pouch doubling as a utility pouch. On the upper panel, I have 2x WAS pistol mag/torch pouches, a WAS admin panel, Templar Assault Systems (TAS) GPS pouch, and WAS single point sling. Rear panel has a WAS hydration bladder pouch.

Belt Kit
TAS padded MOLLE belt. Left to Right. 1x WAS double open mag, 2x WAS smoke Grenade pouches, 1x WAS large dump roll. 2x WAS small vertical utility pouches.

Daysack
TAS Recon Patrol Pack Mk1, with WAS utility pouches on the front, and a WAS double mag pouch on the side.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5860&stc=1&d=1308088393

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5861&stc=1&d=1308088394

In the Chest Rig

-Capacity for 8 mags in mag bank. The HK fits quite nicely in there too.
-Behind mag bank in a zipped compartment I keep an OSI laminated map with marker pens.
-Dump pouch, you'll note I have two, while I normally wouldn't advocate doubling up on kit, the thinking behind the two is that the lower dump is for mags, while the upper is for anything else that needs dumping mid attack - spare ammo, intel off a corpse/POW in a hurry, maybe an improvised NOD pouch. Also would be accessible if I need to fire from the seated position in a vehicle.
- 2x smokes. Of the 4x smoke pouches I have, 2x have lifting tabs inside them, I believe they're designed to accommodate 2x frag grenades in the one pouch, the tab allowing you to pull up the lower grenade.
- Above grenade pouch I've tied in a roll of black electrical tape, it's secured to rig via velcro cable tie.
- Medic pouch
-2x Israeli FFD
-1x scissors
-2x pairs of surgical gloves
-1x CAT
-1x Battlefield 1st Aid TAM
-1x Permy marker (for morphine / TQ notification) (need to get colour other than red though)
-4x Glowsticks 2x Red 2x Green
-Detachable lanyard with emergency compass, whistle, White LED torch (for signalling), head torch (red filter), lighter, about 15m of Paracord.
-12x Spare batteries (6x AAA 6x AA) for PRR, NODs, GPS, torches etc
-Pills - painkillers, sh1tstoppers, caffeine boosters, compeed plasters, etc
-1x Foil blanket

-Pistol mag pouch 1 has a monocular (because the optics on our rifles are poo)
-Pistol mag pouch 2 has a penknife (proper swiss army job, was a gift, and can't afford a MUT yet)
Admin panel
-Notebook cover with rite in the rain note pad (and aide memoir), laminated report cards (cccc, ammo/cas, route cards, range cards, stag list) chinagraph pencils (sharpened both ends), mechanical pencil, 2x biros, fine permy marker, compass and stainless steel mirror.
- A4 laminated map of immediate AO with satellite photo overleaf (usually with OSI grid overlay that I do myself)
- pencil sharpener for chinagraph pencils (attached via paracord)
-GPS pouch - Garmin 401 Foretrex - (a fecking must have!! love this gadget!)

On the flip side of the upper panel, the rig is designed to accommodate armour plates, but as we don't use them, I've slotted my Nirex book in there, with TAMs, templates, maps, aerial photography for mission critical data.

- Single point sling. I haven't trialled it yet, I'm taking a punt on it. I usually use an SA80 sling, but I find that the clip at the back can get caught between your daysack/bergan sometimes. So I'm going to give this one a go. Would anyone have any experience of similar slings?

-Hydration pouch, I have a 2L Source bladder, which I'll remove and place in daysack when carrying CEMO.

I also keep 2 large heavy duty zip ties handy for quick deployment for Prisoners or anything that needs fixing.

In the rear back panel I keep a lightweight folded Irish flag for spontaneous moments of conquest, photo ops, and as an emergency aerial recognition marker.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5862&stc=1&d=1308088394

Belt Kit

- Double open mag pouch - two reasons, it's easier to access from the prone, or I can use them as a "last mag" indication.
- 2x Smokes to compliment the chest rig, and helping to keep my front profile low.
- Dump pouch, as explained, for mags.
- 2 small utility pouches, I've gone small because, if I put a big pouch on there, it would only get filled. 1 pouch has E-rat with chem heater and small basic survival kit, the other houses a red filtered maglite, gloves (Mechanix M-pact), and cam cream. Simples :)

I'll put up about the daysack another day, as it's getting late. If you want links to where I got some of my stuff, just ask.

Unfortunately, so far this year, it's not getting a lot of the rough treatment it likes on the ground, but hopefully that'll improve soon. So forgive me for it looking so clean :rolleyes:

RoyalGreenJacket
15th June 2011, 00:30
where are your pace beads? i don't see any pace beads.

only joking, nice gear and top marks for enthusiasm.

Buck
15th June 2011, 00:58
it seems that units in the east are a lot more pro-active in buying their own chest rigs/webbing etc. while i'm not criticising this (i'd love to see units in the west pick up on this a bit too and have myself considered getting something similar to the above) i just cannot justify the expenditure on kit i may use twice a year at most. I understand your circumstance S&S and fully understand various peoples want to buy all the kit out there but i reckon i've decided it's not for me. (pretty conclusive decision there!) the gear i use, i was given. was given a full set of CEFO by a mate, was given a good OG daysack by a mate...was issued everything else...

paul
15th June 2011, 01:28
Hydration pouch, I have a 2L Source bladder

I like that you haven't been sucked into camelbak like everyone else, Source all the way!

SwiftandSure
15th June 2011, 07:21
I like that you haven't been sucked into camelbak like everyone else, Source all the way!

I do have a 3L camelbak thermobak that I keep in my bergen, but I'd trust the Source bladder to withstand the pressure of a daysack on top of it. I prefer the valve on the camelbak. But the Source bladder is slightly superior over the Camelbak.

hedgehog
15th June 2011, 08:37
Mrs H wants to know where you got them tiles

trellheim
15th June 2011, 09:56
good kit mate.

Flamingo
15th June 2011, 10:32
Impressive. A lot of thought has gone into it.

hptmurphy
15th June 2011, 14:00
Any chance of a photo of your weaing it..no need for face shot, just to see how its sits and what goes where.

Used to be a gucci Kit monster myself, probably one of those who started the Assault vest / chest rig thing with the RDF here while on PSOs.

Still have a nice Arktis Chest rig along witha few other bits but off loaded the stuff that had no futher use...like my purpose built PLCE rig with oversize pouches.

Flamingo
15th June 2011, 18:50
Small point, go for a LED maglite rather than the ordinary one, bulb and batteries last longer. Downside of it is that it won't take a wrist lanyard.

HavocIRL
15th June 2011, 21:06
Swiftandsure you let me down with the title of this thread. You call yourself a Gucci Kit monster yet no sign of Oakley Gloves or Sunglasses and most importantly no FOGB combat knife.

Joking aside great kit setup. You should be proud of yourself. I'll have to get my Assault vest setup loaded up here as you've given me a few ideas and it would be rude of me not to return the favour.

Flamingo
15th June 2011, 22:06
Another thought - where are the titanium lightweight KFS? http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/lifeventure-titanium-kfs-set-camping-cutlery-p116469

RoyalGreenJacket
15th June 2011, 22:23
Another thought - where are the titanium lightweight KFS? http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/lifeventure-titanium-kfs-set-camping-cutlery-p116469

too noisy if using a metal mug etc.

also - you can't hide them in your kit when going through security.

stick to heat resistant killer plastic.

Flamingo
15th June 2011, 23:03
too noisy if using a metal mug etc.

also - you can't hide them in your kit when going through security.

stick to heat resistant killer plastic.

Good point, hadn't thought of that.

SwiftandSure
16th June 2011, 12:07
Thanks for the feedback lads. I look forward to seeing your loadouts if you have them to share.


Small point, go for a LED maglite rather than the ordinary one, bulb and batteries last longer. Downside of it is that it won't take a wrist lanyard.

Good point, well made mate. The Maglite is one of the legacy bits of kit that has been with me since the ACF; but it will eventually be replaced for something smaller and lighter that require less batteries and lasts longer.


Any chance of a photo of your weaing it..no need for face shot, just to see how its sits and what goes where.

I will try to get some photos up of me wearing it loaded with mags and bombs. I don't particularly want to put up a photo of me wearing full CEFO in my living room or garden. I suspect I won't have to wait long to get such photos ;)


Used to be a gucci Kit monster myself, probably one of those who started the Assault vest / chest rig thing with the RDF here while on PSOs

It's always been a part of me, I love Gucci'ness! Here's me in the BA in 2001 rocking my old assault vest which I'd customised...

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5867&stc=1&d=1308222291


Another thought - where are the titanium lightweight KFS? http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/lifeventure-titanium-kfs-set-camping-cutlery-p116469

Plastic spork is in my left arm pocket. Where I keep an addition folded laminated AO map, Aerial photo on flip side, compass and pens. The thinking being that if I'm separated from my kit, (e.g. escaped POW, injured etc) I can still navigate myself to safety.

The one thing I will say about my Gucci kit is that I try as best as possible to keep it cost neutral. I have a one in, one out policy, whereby I'll sell my older custom gear to offset the cost of the new gear. In fact, I didn't even pay for the chest rig base, belt kit base, and active ear defence, they are my prize blagging trophies among other smaller blagged items! :biggrin:

Will try to post up the daysack later today.

SwiftandSure
16th June 2011, 13:13
Here is my daysack....

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5868&stc=1&d=1308223275

Outer contents:
Top left pouch:
- BooBoo kit - plasters / compeed / savlon / burns bandages / tape
- SA80 cleaning kit - I keep a small cleaning kit in the rifle butt, just in case, but use this one for comprehensive cleaning.
- Hand cleaner - To try to sanitise hands after weapon cleaning in the field
- Comms cord reel - you know yourselves, for stag positions, track markers etc etc

Top right pouch:
- Crusader mug and cooker set -separated by zip lock bags to avoid clinking between them
- Gel fuel enough to last 2-3 days
- Rations and sweeties

Bottom pouch
-Empty - but should comfortably hold 150+ rounds of link or 2x SINCGAR batteries

Underside of the pack, out of view, there's a velcro holding for spare antennas, but I've used it to hold 30m of wrapped paracord (can never have enough Paracord):biggrin:

There are also utility straps looped into the MOLLE on the underside and face of the pack to accommodate additional bulky items like SRAAW, SF tripod etc.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5869&stc=1&d=1308223275

Inside the Pack

In main compartment
Just a Gore-tex jacket, folded and secured by internal compression straps. I don't bother with the trousers, they'd take too long to put on, and only restrict my movement.

As mentioned earlier, I keep this space available for mission essential equipment. When empty, I pull the outer compression straps in to collapse the void of space. A full SINCGAR set fits perfectly into this pack, with the jacket too, all secured with the compression straps.

In the flap pocket
- Woolly hat and shemagh (in ziplock bag)
- Spare base layer (in ziplock bag)
- Man wipes AKA Baby wipes :tongue:

What goes in the pack is always up for debate. For example, I contemplate if I really want to carry a cooker in my CEFO as I probably won't need it on most patrols, but then if SHTF and we're exposed to the elements, compromised, or re-tasked there may well be the need to carry the facility to boil water.

I try to pack my kit so I can fulfil my role, and the role above me, i.e. carrying cas/ammo report cards and comms cord in case an NCO is dropped.

The kit is always evolving. Even now, I'm thinking of a method of securing my pack to my bergen via a means of quick release clips. I'd put two clips through the bottom corner MOLLE of the pack, and maybe one on the handle. That way, by putting the receiving clips on the PLCE bergans vertical "MOLLE" loops, I'd secure the base of the pack to the bergan, and then I'd tie a single (larger) quick release clip between the handles of the bergan and pack, securing the top. Will let you know how that goes.

BTW that reminds me, top tip, if you're throwing out any gear (mil or civ) and it has quick release clips, buckles, etc; cut them off and keep them in your sewing kit. You'll usually find a use for it later on. This helps with keeping the cost of customising kit down. Even if your just making up your own utility straps for example.

Any questions, fire away.

GoneToTheCanner
16th June 2011, 13:41
Hi there,
the braided thing with the mini torch and such hanging off it? is that custom-made or a bought item? I'm done with Maglites and now use LED Lensers.
regards
GttC

SwiftandSure
16th June 2011, 13:45
Hi there,
the braided thing with the mini torch and such hanging off it? is that custom-made or a bought item? I'm done with Maglites and now use LED Lensers.
regards
GttC

I made that myself mate. It's not perfect, but does the job and will unravel easily enough. For instructions on how to do it, CLICK HERE (http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-Paracord-Rescue-Belt/)

HavocIRL
16th June 2011, 13:47
Good point, well made mate. The Maglite is one of the legacy bits of kit that has been with me since the ACF; but it will eventually be replaced for something smaller and lighter that require less batteries and lasts longer.




I'd recommend this

http://uktactical.com/acatalog/Enigizer_AA_Miltary_Helmet_Light.html

Bought it the other day. Bit pricey but worth it. Great modular torch and very bright.

smegers
16th June 2011, 14:05
That's a nice daysack, what make is it?

SwiftandSure
16th June 2011, 14:22
I'd recommend this

http://uktactical.com/acatalog/Enigizer_AA_Miltary_Helmet_Light.html

Bought it the other day. Bit pricey but worth it. Great modular torch and very bright.

Cheers for the recommendation, I was looking at the sidewinder streamlight as a replacement, as I think having an IR capability is the way forward these days. When I'm flush again, I'll look into that. In the meantime, it'll be on my "Do Want" list.


That's a nice daysack, what make is it?

Templar Assault systems Operator Patrol Pack Mk1.

There has since been a Mk2 with and integral frame which the Mk1 lacked (although it does help shaping the pack around the hydration bladder without the frame). And I'm reliably informed that there will be a Mk3 coming soon with internal MOLLE loops.

Trojan Group UK sell them, although their website is temporarily down.

HavocIRL
16th June 2011, 14:41
Cheers for the recommendation, I was looking at the sidewinder streamlight as a replacement, as I think having an IR capability is the way forward these days. When I'm flush again, I'll look into that. In the meantime, it'll be on my "Do Want" list.





The torch has an IR filter as well as white and red light. The different attachments are deadly too. But again your choice.

SwiftandSure
16th June 2011, 14:44
The torch has an IR filter as well as white and red light. The different attachments are deadly too. But again your choice.

Oh, I'd prefer your choice over the one I was looking at. It has White/Red/and IR functionality, comes with multiple mounts and is probably lighter. What's not to like? (besides the price) :biggrin:

Hello Alaska
16th June 2011, 17:39
Oh, how I wish I was allowed use a plate carrier...

HavocIRL
16th June 2011, 17:52
Oh, how I wish I was allowed use a plate carrier...

Wouldn't have thought you'd be a fan of plate carriers..............

Vamp369
16th June 2011, 22:58
Here is my daysack....

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5868&stc=1&d=1308223275



The most important piece of kit there has to be the moral booster of a Velcro patch!

Also some savage tips, cheers!

Docman
17th June 2011, 00:05
What do people think of a "Post a photo of your kit" thread? Constructive criticism for all who wish to post?

RoyalGreenJacket
17th June 2011, 00:13
i think it's a great idea - and will be a haven to share other good idea's.

Buck
17th June 2011, 01:35
good idea imo. can show my basic diy kit :)

SwiftandSure
17th June 2011, 09:02
Oh, how I wish I was allowed use a plate carrier...

You see, there are some advantages to being a reservist :biggrin:

Now if I could only be allowed to wear it on a POTs course...... :tongue:


The most important piece of kit there has to be the moral booster of a Velcro patch!

fķck yeah, I love morale patches! I'd love to get something like this made up and have on my kit for the craic...

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5873&stc=1&d=1308297455


What do people think of a "Post a photo of your kit" thread? Constructive criticism for all who wish to post?

Feel free to rename this thread. I think a "Post your loadout" thread is what we need in the run up to summer.

Maybe a "best morale patch" thread is in the offing too :biggrin:

paul
17th June 2011, 19:26
fķck yeah, I love morale patches! I'd love to get something like this made up and have on my kit for the craic...


Maybe a "best morale patch" thread is in the offing too :biggrin:


I was rocking these for awhile till some retard stole them on me...ugh

http://www.flecktarn.co.uk/photos/uscmp3na500a.jpg

http://www.flecktarn.co.uk/photos/uscmp2na500a.jpg

The real Jack
17th June 2011, 19:35
Very Nice S&S, think If I was involved in the DF anymore and If there was the prospect of some proper tactics I'd buy something similar, would skip the belt though...seems extra weight for little benefit when you can have the mag pouches on the front.

One thing...why do you have your blood type on it in 2 places? It may be good drills but in the unlikely event of you getting shot doing tactics it'll be ignored if you get to hospital!

Hello Alaska
17th June 2011, 19:42
Good call on the 401 S&S, I have one myself. Smashing bit of kit!

SwiftandSure
17th June 2011, 21:55
Very Nice S&S, think If I was involved in the DF anymore and If there was the prospect of some proper tactics I'd buy something similar, would skip the belt though...seems extra weight for little benefit when you can have the mag pouches on the front.

TBH, the belt kit is there for two reasons,
a) as a last resort belt kit.
b) for additional load bearing. I wouldn't want to attach much more to my front for fear of busting myself when diving into the prone. I have 2x 4-MOLLE wide pouches, capable of carrying 150 rounds of link in each. So if need be, I can use the belt to carry any extra mission essential gear. I leave the pouches off the belt, because empty pouches get filled quickly with unnecessary shite, and as explained earlier I want to maintain a low profile at the rear.


One thing...why do you have your blood type on it in 2 places? It may be good drills but in the unlikely event of you getting shot doing tactics it'll be ignored if you get to hospital!

I didn't know it'll be ignored. Why is that?

I keep two patches on the rig to have one spare, for either CBA, or my smock etc. I also keep a Combat Casualty Care Card with my name, Army number, and blood type, pre-printed, in my right arm pocket with my FFD. The CCCC is on a bit of string to put around my neck or tie to my arm if injured should my kit get cut off me. TBH I'd put my name and blood type on every bit of kit I have to wear in the field.


Good call on the 401 S&S, I have one myself. Smashing bit of kit!

I love it mate, I take it with me running most times.

Quick Q: Do you pre-plot your patrol waypoints and harbour location into yours? What about the tracking? Or use it mainly for positioning and grids? The one thing I considered was that if I were captured (or killed) the 401 would compromise the patrol and unit rather quickly.

SwiftandSure
17th June 2011, 22:24
HA - clear your inbox, PM inbound!

Flamingo
17th June 2011, 22:52
Something else to suggest to add to the First Aid kit - a roll of Elastoplast 2.5cm http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/g-R0Kx4SvkEvAouDASbflgN1l9RdjGEoN5Lzu7itWijL00oIiJ69 h1_PPr3tEbNMrAQ9aeiXRwXCUmNQfQrv-9G8tQk9lZPKkaljWXqHDyNzAR8hN8qTTGY9kQvVee4OX9dLcgb N2eRu2sFjz9K7PoP7zYcZz--zwbZz3SIPxrmv2esPBoad http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&sugexp=gsih&pq=elastoplast&xhr=t&q=elastoplast+tape&cp=14&client=firefox-a&hs=HU2&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1280&bih=641&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17746877485830088371&sa=X&ei=q8v7TfWrIcK6hAfxjbGNAw&sqi=2&ved=0CFUQ8wIwAQ

It's good for strapping on dressings, can be put directly over blisters, strapping injured fingers together, put over cuts, and will stick to anything. Also doubles up as sticky tape, and can make an improvised red filter for a Maglite!

Don't get hung up about the "allergic" thing. For example I'm OK with Elastoplast, but come out in a nasty rash when anyone sticks Micropore (anti-allergic) on me!

I always used to keep a roll of it in my combat jacket breast pocket.

Vamp369
18th June 2011, 01:17
Post your kit sounds good

Hello Alaska
18th June 2011, 12:48
HA - clear your inbox, PM inbound!

Done.

Celtic-Warrior
18th June 2011, 14:28
Will post a pic of mine as soon as I can get a pic of it in use wouldnt put one up of it in the livin room!!

Celtic-Warrior
18th June 2011, 15:39
I thought during the tactical phase of the pots cse any webbing could be used that the love was only required for MOI and instruction on it??

paul
18th June 2011, 15:45
I thought during the tactical phase of the pots cse any webbing could be used that the love was only required for MOI and instruction on it??

No, at least for the east anyway.

spaceghetti
18th June 2011, 16:03
I thought during the tactical phase of the pots cse any webbing could be used that the love was only required for MOI and instruction on it??


No, at least for the east anyway.

They don't do that in the South either.

Although, a buddy of mine is on the standards course and they're allowed to wear any kit they want for the tactics phase apparently. I loaned him my vest and helmet for the course.

paul
18th June 2011, 16:51
They don't do that in the South either.

Although, a buddy of mine is on the standards course and they're allowed to wear any kit they want for the tactics phase apparently. I loaned him my vest and helmet for the course.

I believe pots and standards courses have different reasoning behind it.

Flamingo
18th June 2011, 18:07
Regarding maglites, I've just received one through the post that is a 2AA size and is LED, with a 100% power, 25% power, blink mode and SOS mode. Seems like a flash piece of kit! (I'd sent off one to them about 10 months ago that had a Duracell battery explode inside it, and never heard any more from them - until now!).

Also, they seem to have taken my comment to them that the LED Maglite needed a lanyard ring on it, as it now seems to have one!

Vamp369
18th June 2011, 20:12
On my pots, it was webbing up until the SIA test, thereafter on the exercise it was whatever....

Buck
19th June 2011, 00:32
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab77/Buck_Rogers/DSC00084.jpg
My daysack

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab77/Buck_Rogers/DSC00076.jpg
Webbing layout minus the waterbottle pouch

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab77/Buck_Rogers/DSC00077.jpg
Mag pouch with penknife holder

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab77/Buck_Rogers/DSC00080.jpg
My kit - Bottom right to left: mozzie net, penknife, cableties, insulating tape, small med kit, gloves (light, medium and heavy), head torch, cleaning kit, camo cream, bungies, tent pegs, metal mug, knee pads, knees, scrim scarf and para cord

that's basically it. emphasis on basic

Flamingo
19th June 2011, 11:40
why three pairs of gloves, Buck?

RoyalGreenJacket
19th June 2011, 11:46
Regarding maglites, I've just received one through the post that is a 2AA size and is LED, with a 100% power, 25% power, blink mode and SOS mode. Seems like a flash piece of kit! (I'd sent off one to them about 10 months ago that had a Duracell battery explode inside it, and never heard any more from them - until now!).

Also, they seem to have taken my comment to them that the LED Maglite needed a lanyard ring on it, as it now seems to have one!

sounds good Flamingo, i'll have to keep an eye out for that one.

Flamingo
19th June 2011, 11:48
Seems nice. I have to cary a torch on my belt at work in case of emergencies (night, tunnels, etc), and have always had a Maglite, I think I'll be swapping it over for this one.

Docman
19th June 2011, 13:11
Post your kit sounds good

Done

Buck
19th June 2011, 13:35
why three pairs of gloves, Buck?

depends on the time of year, the light and medium are really just two different pairs of tac gloves i have. the heavy ones are thinsulate ones for colder weather

apod
19th June 2011, 14:24
Not bad Buck.Keep it simple.I like that.
You should try to lay your hands on another waterbottle pouch and a utility pouch.You can bin the large respirator haversack then and using a utility strap on the inside and a small thin bungee on the outside you can set up your CEFO so it fits like a glove.
Trust me if you do this it is so comfortable you will wonder what you ever did before.

BTW if all that kit goes in your beltkit what goes in your daysack?
Heres a few pics i got off the net showing what i am talking about.The two ammo and three pouches across the back setup is what i used myself when we had PLCE.Please ignore the bungee on the inside in the last pic.Utility stap is better for that purpose as it doesnt stretch.;)

Buck
19th June 2011, 14:32
Not bad Buck.Keep it simple.I like that.
You should try to lay your hands on another waterbottle pouch and a utility pouch.You can bin the large respirator haversack then and using a utility strap on the inside and a small thin bungee on the outside you can set up your CEFO so it fits like a glove.
Trust me if you do this it is so comfortable you will wonder what you ever did before.

BTW if all that kit goes in your beltkit what goes in your daysack?

cheers mate. any idea where i'd get a utility strap suitable? A mate gave me that stuff but it was sans water bottle pouch so i'll try and get my hands on that and then the utility pouch you're talking about.

Not all that kit goes on the belt order, depends on the situation. Usually i'd have the water proof jacket in the daysack, the large pair of gloves, the head torch, cable ties, bungees, more water. it fills up pretty fast. in the utility pouch will be the small med kit, para-cord, camo cream etc. usually put the link in there too as well as the spare 5.56 blank ammo (if we get it!). The main issue at the moment is the fact that it's the large respirator pouch at the back. it's not usually full so it bounds around a bit, even when bungeed up. also, what is the point of the large strap on that? never figured it out!

apod
19th June 2011, 14:37
cheers mate. any idea where i'd get a utility strap suitable? A mate gave me that stuff but it was sans water bottle pouch so i'll try and get my hands on that and then the utility pouch you're talking about.

Not all that kit goes on the belt order, depends on the situation. Usually i'd have the water proof jacket in the daysack, the large pair of gloves, the head torch, cable ties, bungees, more water. it fills up pretty fast. in the utility pouch will be the small med kit, para-cord, camo cream etc. usually put the link in there too as well as the spare 5.56 blank ammo (if we get it!). The main issue at the moment is the fact that it's the large respirator pouch at the back. it's not usually full so it bounds around a bit, even when bungeed up. also, what is the point of the large strap on that? never figured it out!

Utility straps can be got in most CQ's stores.They come with the PLCE issue Bergan.Try there first.You only need one. So a kindly CQ might have a spare one floating about.Failing that any of the UK mail order surplus stores stock them along with the likes of Army bargains in Dublin,Protac in the DFTC and Eureka in Middleton and Killarney.

That large resi pouch has always bounced around and will always do so.No matter how much you tie it down.The DF bought what was designed as a respirator haversack for the BA's S10 resi and bastardised it into a "large utility pouch" and decreed that it was to carry your poncho and waterproofs and a whole host of other crap.Eventually after painfull experience we copped on and took it off our CEFO and replaced it as i mentioned above.It then became waht it was always intended to be.A respirator pouch.
The strap on the back was there so you could carry the Haversack separate to your CEFO at all times if there was a CBRN threat and you were not on the frontline where CEFO was worn.The Haversack was designed to be worn on the left hip and their is a long piece of green cord also provided to allow the pouch to be secured around your leg whilst running to preven bounce.

Buck
19th June 2011, 14:56
Utility straps can be got in most CQ's stores.They come with the PLCE issue Bergan.Try there first.You only need one. So a kindly CQ might have a spare one floating about.Failing that any of the UK mail order surplus stores stock them along with the likes of Army bargains in Dublin,Protac in the DFTC and Eureka in Middleton and Killarney.

That large resi pouch has always bounced around and will always do so.No matter how much you tie it down.The DF bought what was designed as a respirator haversack for the BA's S10 resi and bastardised it into a "large utility pouch" and decreed that it was to carry your poncho and waterproofs and a whole host of other crap.Eventually after painfull experience we copped on and took it off our CEFO and replaced it as i mentioned above.It then became waht it was always intended to be.A respirator pouch.
The strap on the back was there so you could carry the Haversack separate to your CEFO at all times if there was a CBRN threat and you were not on the frontline where CEFO was worn.The Haversack was designed to be worn on the left hip and their is a long piece of green cord also provided to allow the pouch to be secured around your leg whilst running to preven bounce.

Cheers mate, cheers for the pics too. Will try and sort something out :) so you're saying 2 waterbottle pouches then?

Docman
19th June 2011, 15:41
cheers mate. any idea where i'd get a utility strap suitable?

http://www.survivalaids.com/order1.php?pg=893

apod
19th June 2011, 16:49
Cheers mate, cheers for the pics too. Will try and sort something out :) so you're saying 2 waterbottle pouches then?

Whatever you can get.OG PLCE is getting harder to find these days.My preference was for two utility pouches and a single BA issue waterbottle pouch.Make sure you get a BA issue WB pouch as they are bigger than the DF ones(sized to accept a 58 Ptn waterbottle with a "crusader" mug underneath.The crusader is the current DF and BA issue metal mug used for brewing up in) and they also have a separate sleeve inside to taker your Hexi cooker or brewkit.The BA ones also have the quick release press fasteners at the rear.
The utility pouches are one large compartment each.I used to keep one empty for GPMG link etc .The other one usually held my RCK,IFAK and Cam cream/mozzie rep etc.
heres another source for the straps.:biggrin:
http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/military/index.asp
(Webbing and bergans/Issue PLCE webbing DPM camo/items 11-17.)

Buck
19th June 2011, 20:08
Whatever you can get.OG PLCE is getting harder to find these days.My preference was for two utility pouches and a single BA issue waterbottle pouch.Make sure you get a BA issue WB pouch as they are bigger than the DF ones(sized to accept a 58 Ptn waterbottle with a "crusader" mug underneath.The crusader is the current DF and BA issue metal mug used for brewing up in) and they also have a separate sleeve inside to taker your Hexi cooker or brewkit.The BA ones also have the quick release press fasteners at the rear.
The utility pouches are one large compartment each.I used to keep one empty for GPMG link etc .The other one usually held my RCK,IFAK and Cam cream/mozzie rep etc.
heres another source for the straps.:biggrin:
http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/military/index.asp
(Webbing and bergans/Issue PLCE webbing DPM camo/items 11-17.)

Cheers Apod \:)|

Will try to get my hands on something but I was thinking of staying more in the OD side of things alright...the mixed camo webbing just doesn't sit well for me :biggrin: must try and source these things now though...was looking at protac but it seems that they only have the Irish OD ones or Protac Camo ones...

Buck
19th June 2011, 20:13
http://www.survivalaids.com/order1.php?pg=893

cheers buddy!

Docman
19th June 2011, 20:52
Will try to get my hands on something but I was thinking of staying more in the OD side of things alright...the mixed camo webbing just doesn't sit well for me :biggrin: must try and source these things now though...was looking at protac but it seems that they only have the Irish OD ones or Protac Camo ones...
At this stage, you will have an awful time trying to get OD PLCE webbing.
About the only place selling it anymore is Silvermans in the UK as they tend to sell older webbing for re-enactors.

http://www.silvermans.co.uk/Products/tabid/54/Department/Military/Category/WEBBING/id/1/Text/75/page/1/Default.aspx

However, the stuff in Protac is not Irish Army stuff, it is a copy of the old Brit OD so it has better connections than the Irish stuff and is the same size as the British stuff. Not great quality for the new stuff. However they used to sell second hand British stuff so I'm not sure.

Docman
19th June 2011, 21:12
A clearer idea of what you are looking for is below - The Utility straps are seen attaching the bottoms of each pouch together and hold it together almost like a belt.

Also, the 2nd pic shows 4 pouches being worn on a belt. I used to have 3 but the water bottle was just too difficult to remove from the pouch. 1 for water, 1 for IFAK, 1 for spare ammo and 4th for misc items.

spaceghetti
19th June 2011, 21:15
Here you go:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110593490422&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT

They sell them in Multicam, Flectarn, Black, Brit DPM, Brit Desert DPM as well as OD.

It looks as if its the same design as the ones in the pic apod posted, it has the metal bar that goes into the belt and than a flap that goes over and closes with two metal studs.

Haven't gotten any of them yet but i was planning on getting some of these pouches they look good quality.

It's a bit pricey though :eek:

They sell mag pouches as well with 2 different types of buckle:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110593491744&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110593493065&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT

Buck
19th June 2011, 22:02
A clearer idea of what you are looking for is below - The Utility straps are seen attaching the bottoms of each pouch together and hold it together almost like a belt.

Also, the 2nd pic shows 4 pouches being worn on a belt. I used to have 3 but the water bottle was just too difficult to remove from the pouch. 1 for water, 1 for IFAK, 1 for spare ammo and 4th for misc items.


At this stage, you will have an awful time trying to get OD PLCE webbing.
About the only place selling it anymore is Silvermans in the UK as they tend to sell older webbing for re-enactors.

http://www.silvermans.co.uk/Products/tabid/54/Department/Military/Category/WEBBING/id/1/Text/75/page/1/Default.aspx

However, the stuff in Protac is not Irish Army stuff, it is a copy of the old Brit OD so it has better connections than the Irish stuff and is the same size as the British stuff. Not great quality for the new stuff. However they used to sell second hand British stuff so I'm not sure.

Cheers for the replies lads...

Docman...is the protac stuff decent? I may pick some of it up because that silvermans stuff is pricey. And I'm definitely not looking to go mad spending for the sake of once or twice a year!

Buck
19th June 2011, 22:03
Here you go:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110593490422&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT

They sell them in Multicam, Flectarn, Black, Brit DPM, Brit Desert DPM as well as OD.

It looks as if its the same design as the ones in the pic apod posted, it has the metal bar that goes into the belt and than a flap that goes over and closes with two metal studs.

Haven't gotten any of them yet but i was planning on getting some of these pouches they look good quality.

It's a bit pricey though :eek:

They sell mag pouches as well with 2 different types of buckle:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110593491744&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110593493065&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT


cheers fella. that is pricey :eek: think i'll leave them tbh :-D

apod
19th June 2011, 22:40
I think you picked me up wrong Buck.I was only using those pics of the BA DPM CEFO to demonstrate what i was on about.Of course you should try to get OG PLCE pouches if possible.They are getting rarer but they can still be got.

Buck
19th June 2011, 22:45
I think you picked me up wrong Buck.I was only using those pics of the BA DPM CEFO to demonstrate what i was on about.Of course you should try to get OG PLCE pouches if possible.They are getting rarer but they can still be got.

Thought as much when I saw what I thought to be SA80 mags :biggrin: can anyone vouch for the OG protac stuff?

Docman
19th June 2011, 22:59
Docman...is the protac stuff decent? I may pick some of it up because that silvermans stuff is pricey. And I'm definitely not looking to go mad spending for the sake of once or twice a year!

Been a while since I took a look. I know that the brand new stuff that they sell has issues with the clips breaking but the second hand stuff is good.

apod
19th June 2011, 23:00
Dont touch Protac with a barge pole.The kit is not soldier proof and AFAIK is not IRR.:eek:
Not good.Stick with issue type PLCE where possible if i were you.
Heres a site that has OG PLCE pouches,second hand i know but you cant be too picky.
http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/army-surplus-uk/plce-army-webbing.html

Docman
19th June 2011, 23:10
Dont touch Protac with a barge pole.The kit is not soldier proof and AFAIK is not IRR.:eek:
The second hand stuff is ex-Brit Army - although I think most of it is gone now.

spaceghetti
19th June 2011, 23:11
Dont touch Protac with a barge pole.The kit is not soldier proof and AFAIK is not IRR.:eek:
Not good.Stick with issue type PLCE where possible if i were you.
Heres a site that has OG PLCE pouches,second hand i know but you cant be too picky.
http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/army-surplus-uk/plce-army-webbing.html

I have a protac vest as well as one of those cheap NV monoculars from Lidl with an in-built IR light.

When i get the vest back off my buddy who's doing his standards course i can shine the IR light on it and see if this is true! :biggrin:

mercurydoc
19th June 2011, 23:12
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/a-very-nice-bloke/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562

Might help, also the Middleton shop is where i got a few good pouchs a few years ago

Buck
19th June 2011, 23:20
Dont touch Protac with a barge pole.The kit is not soldier proof and AFAIK is not IRR.:eek:
Not good.Stick with issue type PLCE where possible if i were you.
Heres a site that has OG PLCE pouches,second hand i know but you cant be too picky.
http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/army-surplus-uk/plce-army-webbing.html


http://shop.ebay.co.uk/a-very-nice-bloke/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562

Might help, also the Middleton shop is where i got a few good pouchs a few years ago

Cheers for the help lads!

Apod - they dont post outside the UK :frown:

mercurydoc
19th June 2011, 23:20
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/British-Army-Webbing-Yoke-Assorted-Pouches-Hunting-/130533073949?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item1e6460a41d
You Could butcher this for spare parts like my red cortina :-)

Buck
19th June 2011, 23:27
cheers but the only bits i need are the water bottle pouch and the utility pouch! that's a lot of webbing for two bits :-D cheers again lads...looks like i'll have to source some bits from protac...hopefully they have the second hand ones

Infy
20th June 2011, 12:12
Cheers for the help lads!

Apod - they dont post outside the UK :frown:

PM me Buck, I may be able to help with the not having a UK address ;)

My CEFO consists of 3 utility pouches across the back, one for water the rest for kit.

I ditched the front right ammo pouch and replaced with a utility pouch. This pouch holds all my admin gear. My theory is that I rarely carry 8 magazines (it's the RDF after all), and it is a lot easier to get my battle book and TAM's/Q cards out of a pouch rather that trying to get things out of the top pocket of the smock when the pressure comes on! Also it keeps the bulk out of the smock. Top pocket of smock holds map/compass/whistle pace beads and some munchies. Bottom pockets keep kfs/torch all looped in.

Buck
20th June 2011, 14:05
PM me Buck, I may be able to help with the not having a UK address ;)

My CEFO consists of 3 utility pouches across the back, one for water the rest for kit.

I ditched the front right ammo pouch and replaced with a utility pouch. This pouch holds all my admin gear. My theory is that I rarely carry 8 magazines (it's the RDF after all), and it is a lot easier to get my battle book and TAM's/Q cards out of a pouch rather that trying to get things out of the top pocket of the smock when the pressure comes on! Also it keeps the bulk out of the smock. Top pocket of smock holds map/compass/whistle pace beads and some munchies. Bottom pockets keep kfs/torch all looped in.

Cheers!

greyfox
21st June 2011, 09:16
im sure i have one of those pro-tac og utility pouches some place not the best quality and im sure i ditched it as soon as i acquired a proper one .

i had a ammo pouch as a utility pouch at one stage , held small bits like gps , camm cream secatures ect did a fine job as stuff was easier to find ,

Docman
24th June 2011, 17:59
However, the stuff in Protac is not Irish Army stuff, it is a copy of the old Brit OD so it has better connections than the Irish stuff and is the same size as the British stuff. Not great quality for the new stuff. However they used to sell second hand British stuff so I'm not sure.
Was in Protac today.

They have the OG Utility pouches which are new and (I think) cheaply made. I have used them with no problem but I do know several people who have had problems with clips breaking.

They also have some 2nd hand British OG PLCE. Mostly it seemed to be made up of Water Bottle Pouches and Rocket pouches but if you root around, they was a few other items there.

SwiftandSure
26th June 2011, 21:53
Well lads,

The big man upstairs, were he to exist, was surely looking out for me when a 48Hr tactical exercise landed on my lap last week! So I finally managed to put my kit through it's paces.

I was initially appointed the Platoon signaller on the ex; so fitting the daysack to accommodate a large SINCGAR paid off as that's exactly what I was landed with. My CEFO for the Ex looked like this:

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=117

The setup was in a nutshell - weapons, navigation, trauma and basic essentials in the rig. The rest, in the daysack. The belt was ditched, as I wasn't needing to carry a lot of ammo.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=116

Not much changed with the rig itself, except that I removed the hydration bladder and mounted it on the daysack.

Unfortunately, the source bladder that I bought, believing it would withstand pressure against it, came apart and during the first of four PIAs that day! It was packed in the daysack on top of the SINCGAR.

I'm not sure exactly how it happened, but if you look at the picture you'll see that the housing for the hose came away from the bladder. I managed to bastardise it with black tape, and while it held the hose together, it still slowly leaked throughout the remainder of the Ex. I put the hydration bladder on the outside of the pack so that there would be minimal pressure on the bladder causing it to leak further.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=119

The pack became a bit of a beast in the end, weighing in at around 20+Kgs. I tried to scale back as best I could in terms of weight, but the full SINCGAR plus accessories really weighed me down on top of the other gear in the pack. At one stage, whilst trying to leopard crawl, I felt like I had a fat 10 year old sat on my back determined to pin me down. Towards the end of the day, I needed help getting the pack back on. At every opportunity, I would sit with the pack on the ground to take the weight off my shoulders. This contributed to my decision to dump my smock for the Ex, instead opting to wear my Goretex as an outer layer in the changing weather (saving me having to pack it) and keeping a DPM shirt in the pack as a mid layer or outer layer in hot weather.
I don't mind carrying that sort of weight on my back, if anything, it adds to the realism, but I did find it hard going as a lot of the other lads weren't carrying similar loads to me. So the boys were flying ahead of me throughout the attacks. And point to self for the future, don't try crawling through tight tunnels with a daysack on when you're already a salad dodging fat lad not greased up for the challenge. :biggrin:

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=118

Some things worth highlighting:

Garmin 401 Foretrex: Lads, I can't recommend this enough! It's an awesome of piece of kit. From providing me grids in real time during attacks to timings for first and last lights for the purposes of orders, the 401 should be a field essential. Whether you're a commander, scout, or radio operator, this gadget saves time and effort when you need to be as slick as possible.

Single Point Sling: I have to say, I really found this sling useful. I kept the original sling on the weapon and just attached the hook to the rear sling loop. It kept the weapon near my shoulder and to hand at all times, yet was easily detachable whenever I wanted to free the weapon from my kit.

MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-X: These are active ear defence that I managed to blag through work (long story), but I lived in these throughout the Ex. I had my helmet adjusted to wearing them, so I wore them the whole time. Waterproof and sturdy, they enhanced my hearing if anything and gave me perfect situational awareness whilst protecting my hearing. I now consider them as much part of my CEFO as my rig.

Sealskinz socks: These are MONEY! I have non goretex Lowa boots, so once my feet were soaked wet through, I removed and drained my wet socks, powered my feet and put on the sealskinz whilst cutting about the harbour area. By the time I was back to work, I changed into dry socks, my boots were all but dry, and my morale was up!

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=120

Lessons learned on the ground:

Mosquito net: I didn't have one, and money couldn't buy one once the midgies got going! Never realised the midgies would be so bad in the Glen. I won't be going without again.

Water Bottle: After the Source bladder burst, I was lucky to have had 2x Powerade bottles in my pack which I kept for extra hydration after heavy exertion. Once empty, I used them as temporary water bottles until I repaired the source bladder. It wasn't ideal. I had the 3L camelbak in the bergan, but it wasn't to hand. I have an ol' reliable 58 Pattern water bottle in the shed, it's bombproof, and I'm certainly going to keep that as my backup bottle in my CEFO from now on. If all else fails, the ol' 58 will do it's job.

Think that's about it lads, if I can think of anything else, I'll post it up. Hope it helps....

SwiftandSure
26th June 2011, 22:10
Oh, and for Murph before you go, here's a couple of photos of me in the kit. I didn't get many photos, so there wasn't a lot to choose from.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=122

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=121

I forgot to mention in the other post, that I moved the GPS across to a more central position on the rig as in it's original position it was obstructing the placement of the rifle in my shoulder. I achieved this with an ever useful zip tie.

spaceghetti
26th June 2011, 22:16
Can't see the pics. :S


I have an ol' reliable 58 Pattern water bottle in the shed, it's bombproof, and I'm certainly going to keep that as my backup bottle in my CEFO from now on. If all else fails, the ol' 58 will do it's job.

No it isn't.

I've broken 2 of them. One of them i just dropped from waist height and the cap broke open, the other one just came apart at the seam.

The one issue one i have left just leaks constantly.

I have had 3 american style water bottles as well. Cap busted on two of them but the other one is grand.

That's 5 waterbottles out of 6 that failed on me, and most of these broke before i even took them on the ground.

Not sure how that happened with the bladder. Maybe you just got a faulty one?

I've only used my 2 3L source bladders since i got them (one in daysack/vest and one in bergan) and I've never had a problem.

For a backup i keep something like THIS (http://cgi.ebay.ie/SOURCE-LIQUITAINER-2-LITRE-FOLDING-WATER-BOTTLE-NEW-/300566792672?pt=UK_SportingGoods_HikingEquipment_R L&hash=item45fb2d49e0) in my daysack. (only smaller, mines about 500ml)

northie
26th June 2011, 22:44
Lessons learned on the ground:

Mosquito net: I didn't have one, and money couldn't buy one once the midgies got going! Never realised the midgies would be so bad in the Glen. I won't be going without again.

Water Bottle: After the Source bladder burst, I was lucky to have had 2x Powerade bottles in my pack which I kept for extra hydration after heavy exertion. Once empty, I used them as temporary water bottles until I repaired the source bladder. It wasn't ideal. I had the 3L camelbak in the bergan, but it wasn't to hand. I have an ol' reliable 58 Pattern water bottle in the shed, it's bombproof, and I'm certainly going to keep that as my backup bottle in my CEFO from now on. If all else fails, the ol' 58 will do it's job.

Think that's about it lads, if I can think of anything else, I'll post it up. Hope it helps....

Headnet (Even a Ä3.50 mil com one will do) and DEET essential this time of year.

Found that Camelbak Unbottle (2L) works fairly well as the thermal sleeve provides protection from any sharp edges you may have in your pack (entrenching tool) - salesrep test for these items was normally to fill up bladder and stand on it.

SwiftandSure
27th June 2011, 00:21
Can't see the pics. :S

Is anyone else having problems?


No it isn't.

Well mine has lasted me since the late 90s, hence the element of trust in it. (Yes, I clean it regularly)

Either way, the point is, I need to keep a dedicated secondary water container in the pack.

Thanks to you and Northie for the suggestions.

Craghopper
27th June 2011, 00:27
Can't see them either.

SwiftandSure
27th June 2011, 00:29
I'll get on it tomorrow lads

RoyalGreenJacket
27th June 2011, 00:36
i see your pics fine S&S and i'm impressed.

you are a credit to your unit and the RDF.

likewise i have never had a '58 bottle fail on me and i have 2 of them in regular use including on operations for over 20 years. perhaps spaceghetti you aren't using the genuine British Army '58's?

anyhow, looking good mate, keep us posted.

spaceghetti
27th June 2011, 01:31
i see your pics fine S&S and i'm impressed.

you are a credit to your unit and the RDF.

likewise i have never had a '58 bottle fail on me and i have 2 of them in regular use including on operations for over 20 years. perhaps spaceghetti you aren't using the genuine British Army '58's?

anyhow, looking good mate, keep us posted.

Well the one's I'm on about are the ones we get issued. They're the same as the '58 yet get aren't they?

SwiftandSure
27th June 2011, 07:26
Are the photos visible now?

RoyalGreenJacket
27th June 2011, 08:33
your pics are still visible to me S&S, i haven't had any problem seeing them.


Well the one's I'm on about are the ones we get issued. They're the same as the '58 yet get aren't they?

i don't know mate - are yours made with the UK MoD 'crowsfoot' on them?

if not then perhaps they are similar design but come from very different manufacturers.

SwiftandSure
27th June 2011, 09:59
Well the one's I'm on about are the ones we get issued. They're the same as the '58 yet get aren't they?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Irish ones slightly different because they don't use the same cap as the British type which is designed to interoperate with the S10 Respirator?

Whether it's just a different cap, or different bottle in terms of material altogether, I don't know.

trellheim
27th June 2011, 10:51
There are a couple of different 58 pattern waterbottles out there. The green issue ones used to leak all the time . My current black one doesn't ( bought from RVops ) Go figure.

I have a 3 litre source in the daysack when on ops, and the waterbottle in the web.

Headnet is more trouble than its worth IMHO restricts visibility. Autan or DEET, figure out which works best and go with that. Look at it this way : either you are working or on stag ( no headnet ) or off ( in the scratcher )

Also you learned the biggest lesson of a DF signaller . The 119 big manpack is an ass-kicker . Always get the spare batteries divvied out into the sections and always beg borrow or steal the baby set instead. Pl/Sgt should have been taking a load of weight off you as he should know you're running around like a loon with the bossman.

ollie
27th June 2011, 11:24
Fair play on the kit . I used to be the same, preferred to have my own kit rather than wait to see what i was given/issued.

You also mentioned my biggest gripe bout tactics in the RDF. While you make the effort to carry what you need others go around in CEFO which is little more than a belt and an ammo pouch. Everyone should be made carry a full layout as per PDF.

Craghopper
27th June 2011, 11:33
Are the photos visible now?

Yup..can see them now. cheers.

greyfox
27th June 2011, 14:59
all-ways interested see how others do it so i can steal any good ideas , great pics

mossie net is essential IMHO its very hard to concentrate when being a mossies dinner, and deet just doesn't deter the most vicious little bar stewards.

i have a bladder but would never fully trust em i all-ways pack it outside by dry-bag in my daysack , a us army water-bottle in my cefo for emergencies and another in my bergan usually does the trick,

the gortex as outer layer i would not be a fan of it makes a lot of noise lacks the pockets for admin stuff , and would be prone to tearing / puncture, for any kind of active work i ware the smock even if it is lashing when i stop for a long period or bivvy i throw on the goretex with the snugpak . don't think i ever brought a shirt on tactics .

how do you find the knee pads ?

SwiftandSure
27th June 2011, 17:10
Knee pads are for winners! Whether external ones like I was wearing, or roll mats sewn into the trousers. My knees are ruined from Osgood-Schlatter's disease and a history of dislocations, so any protection for my knees is welcome. It's worrying enough that they'd buckle under the weight of CEMO, or heavy laden CEFO without worrying that I'll knock my knee caps on rocks when dropping down into cover. Big thumbs up for the knee pads and I couldn't give a flying fķck if they make me look like an airsofting COD fan! :-D
As an aside, if you're sewing in roll mats into your trousers, be sure to reinforce the stitching. One of our lads' trousers had split at the knee from where he'd tailored his trousers early on into the Ex.

I didn't have any issues with the goretex as an outer layer. I sincerely doubt that 30 men on the move will be compromised by the slight rustle of a goretex jacket before anything else. With the chest rig on there's minimal goretex on goretex rubbing anyway. I dumped the smock because when it rained, I was in my smock, the smock was soaking and the wind cut through to the skin after periods of exertion. With a chest rig and heavy daysack, I didn't want to wear two outer shells in case of overheating on the move. So whilst it rained, I put on my Goretex, and placed the soaked smock in the daysack (making it heavier). That's when I thought I'm better off with one outer shell, rather than switching between two, carrying the weight on my back the whole time. With a chest rig on, I'm at no loss without chest pockets as I'd emptied them in the smock anyway. If the sun came out, and heat rose, I'd switch into my shirt as an outer layer. If the weather was cold, I'd use the shirt as a mid layer. If I was stopping after a period of exertion (i.e. PIA), the goretex acted as a wind stopper, so if I hadn't time to change my base layer, the wind wasn't chilling me as much as it would with the smock.

I'm not saying it's a one stop shop solution, but it worked best for me, on that Ex, in those conditions.

And Ollie, mate, I feel your pain. I can never understand that no matter how much I scale back and pack only the essentials, my bergan still weighs a 1/3 heavier than everyone else's! The only luxury item I brought on the ground was a Jetboil cooker, and even then, that became an essential as I was needing to brew up for myself, the boss, and sometimes the Pl Sgts too. So a quick and effective method to boil water was essential for my role on the Ex.

spaceghetti
27th June 2011, 18:10
i don't know mate - are yours made with the UK MoD 'crowsfoot' on them?

if not then perhaps they are similar design but come from very different manufacturers.

When i get home tomorrow i'll see if i can find it and see what it says on the bottle.

Craghopper
27th June 2011, 18:32
Knee pads are for winners! Whether external ones like I was wearing, or roll mats sewn into the trousers. My knees are ruined from Osgood-Schlatter's disease and a history of dislocations, so any protection for my knees is welcome. It's worrying enough that they'd buckle under the weight of CEMO, or heavy laden CEFO without worrying that I'll knock my knee caps on rocks when dropping down into cover. Big thumbs up for the knee pads and I couldn't give a flying fķck if they make me look like an airsofting COD fan! :-D
As an aside, if you're sewing in roll mats into your trousers, be sure to reinforce the stitching. One of our lads' trousers had split at the knee from where he'd tailored his trousers early on into the Ex.

I didn't have any issues with the goretex as an outer layer. I sincerely doubt that 30 men on the move will be compromised by the slight rustle of a goretex jacket before anything else. With the chest rig on there's minimal goretex on goretex rubbing anyway. I dumped the smock because when it rained, I was in my smock, the smock was soaking and the wind cut through to the skin after periods of exertion. With a chest rig and heavy daysack, I didn't want to wear two outer shells in case of overheating on the move. So whilst it rained, I put on my Goretex, and placed the soaked smock in the daysack (making it heavier). That's when I thought I'm better off with one outer shell, rather than switching between two, carrying the weight on my back the whole time. With a chest rig on, I'm at no loss without chest pockets as I'd emptied them in the smock anyway. If the sun came out, and heat rose, I'd switch into my shirt as an outer layer. If the weather was cold, I'd use the shirt as a mid layer. If I was stopping after a period of exertion (i.e. PIA), the goretex acted as a wind stopper, so if I hadn't time to change my base layer, the wind wasn't chilling me as much as it would with the smock.

I'm not saying it's a one stop shop solution, but it worked best for me, on that Ex, in those conditions.

And Ollie, mate, I feel your pain. I can never understand that no matter how much I scale back and pack only the essentials, my bergan still weighs a 1/3 heavier than everyone else's! The only luxury item I brought on the ground was a Jetboil cooker, and even then, that became an essential as I was needing to brew up for myself, the boss, and sometimes the Pl Sgts too. So a quick and effective method to boil water was essential for my role on the Ex.


PDF get issued knee/elbow pads..

Flamingo
27th June 2011, 21:10
Looks like a fun weekend!

I'm not sure how you break a 58 water bottle - it's akin to breaking a ball-bearing.


I can never understand that no matter how much I scale back and pack only the essentials, my bergan still weighs a 1/3 heavier than everyone else's!

I can relate - My Mrs would look at all the stuff laid out for packing, and say "Do you need all that?", to which my reply was "I only need half of it, but I don't know which half I'll need until I get there!"

You are quite right to protect your knees. I used to work in an Orthopaedic Theatre / Day Surgery, and the number of 40-50something ex-forces we got in for knee surgery was only rivaled bu the number of construction workers. It was known as Carpenters Knee.

northie
27th June 2011, 21:56
PDF get issued knee/elbow pads..

Hatch Centurions. Pretty good but they tend to slide down with extended use. Just wear one on the knee you drop on most, its a life saver.

ZULU
27th June 2011, 21:57
On the Midge thing. Avon So soft dry oil moisturiser is VERY good at deterring them.

Only available on order though

Craghopper
27th June 2011, 22:09
Hatch Centurions. Pretty good but they tend to slide down with extended use. Just wear one on the knee you drop on most, its a life saver.

That's how I use them. Actually any one I know use only one on the knee they drop down on.

SwiftandSure
27th June 2011, 23:52
On the Midge thing. Avon So soft dry oil moisturiser is VERY good at deterring them.

Only available on order though

Cheers for the tip mate.


PDF get issued knee/elbow pads..

So I hear, unfortunately, they're still a novelty item in the RDF. :frown:

If you ever get get a spare set you don't want, throw 'em my way, as mine are on the way out. I've only got cheap Viper pads. ;)


That's how I use them. Actually any one I know use only one on the knee they drop down on.

I'm a bit of an oddball there, I naturally drop to my left knee when stopping; but of course, for shooting, we're supposed to drop to our right knee in order to rest left elbow on left thigh for support. So that's why I personally wear both.

To avoid them slipping down on me, I crossed the straps at the back of the knee, and that tends to keep them up there as the cross-over rests on top of my calves. When not needed, I just loosen them around to the outer sides of my boots.

RoyalGreenJacket
28th June 2011, 00:16
PDF get issued knee/elbow pads..

nice one, we don't - except when deploying on Ops.

Truck Driver
28th June 2011, 04:41
I made the same mistake - going to the Glen minus a head net - gobshite Comdt
brought us into a marshy area, which was alive with the flying bastards, and I
was eaten alive, while a colleague was sitting laughing at me with HIS net on

I also found that DEET was not worth a fcuk to me...

Some excellent pointers here on this thread...

morpheus
28th June 2011, 08:51
deet spray has no effect

it does however taste like shit.

mozzie nets all the way

i bought a pair of knee / elbow pads on ebay for 5 euro

i got through an entire FIBUA ex with them so no need to go buying mad expensive pairs!

i wear them on both knees too in case i take a tumble and knees hit glass or nails!

trellheim
28th June 2011, 10:17
your skin type is what matters for mozzie rep, as I found out. DEET was useful sometimes but Autan was much better ( for me )

see this study for more info

http://www.bushman-repellent.com/pdf/army.pdf


Do you drive the truck with the mozzie net on ?

spaceghetti
29th June 2011, 01:10
I never have a problem with mozzies. I guess they just don't like the taste of me. :tongue:


Dont touch Protac with a barge pole.The kit is not soldier proof and AFAIK is not IRR.:eek:

I did the tests i said i'd do. And here are the results! :biggrin:

Getting the pics was a bit tricky because i had to hold my phone in behind the NV monocular so some of the pics are a bit fuzzy.

This is the best i could do.

Here's a picture of issue PLCE:
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5919&stc=1&d=1309305526

Followed by the Protac vest:
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5920&stc=1&d=1309305526

Protac Daysack:
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5918&stc=1&d=1309305526

Irish DPM shirt:
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5921&stc=1&d=1309305526

And some mystery camo. (Don't tell RGJ ;))
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5922&stc=1&d=1309305526

The vest seems to be almost the same as the PLCE as regards to being IRR. :S

mercurydoc
29th June 2011, 07:34
I did the same test on achest rig and few pouchs from protac, was the exact same as the PLCE (Issued)

I find the PROTACs gear the quite good, expensive but good.

apod
29th June 2011, 12:29
Was the IR illuminator switched on when you took the pics?

spaceghetti
29th June 2011, 12:43
Was the IR illuminator switched on when you took the pics?

Yep. That's what the bright green circle is in the middle.

apod
29th June 2011, 12:52
Was looking for the red dot in the top right which indicates the IR is switched on.

apod
29th June 2011, 13:07
Well the one's I'm on about are the ones we get issued. They're the same as the '58 yet get aren't they?
No.


are yours made with the UK MoD 'crowsfoot' on them?
No.

if not then perhaps they are similar design but come from very different manufacturers.
Bang on.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Irish ones slightly different because they don't use the same cap as the British type which is designed to interoperate with the S10 Respirator?

Whether it's just a different cap, or different bottle in terms of material altogether, I don't know.

The Irish issue 58 Ptn "style" WB is smaller than genuine BA issue Bottles and is a softer type type of plastic.Some are also OG in colour.They were a cheap copy that had crap lids that constantly broke when you tightened them.The real BA bottles of which i have two are a better spec and some surplus ones come with the Resi adaptor cap.The first BA issue bottle i bought new from Silverthiefs back in 93 didnt.
Oh and useless info here.The DF had proper sealing CBRN WB caps that were supplied with the old Shalon GS86 resi but they were designed for the US ptn WB so were never issued.Also when we bought the S10 resi back in 2005,they cam with a proper S!) compatible WB.However as they were too long for the issue PLCE WB pouch they also were never issued.

PDF soldiers now no longer get issued any waterbottle,an oversight in my view.Instead they get issued two 2.1 Ltr Camelbaks.Their is a 3ltr CBRN version available to CBRN tasked units.

mercurydoc
29th June 2011, 13:53
Yep. That's what the bright green circle is in the middle.

Same here!

Rhodes
29th June 2011, 14:30
PDF soldiers now no longer get issued any waterbottle,an oversight in my view.Instead they get issued two 2.1 Ltr Camelbaks.

There is a water bottle on issue made by Avon.

http://www.avon-protection.com/getimage.aspx.ID-132538.jpg

HavocIRL
29th June 2011, 16:57
There is a water bottle on issue made by Avon.

http://www.avon-protection.com/getimage.aspx.ID-132538.jpg

And its muck. My first one broke on a duty. Acquired a second one which also broke. Both are now gathering dust in my locker

Truck Driver
30th June 2011, 03:37
Do you drive the truck with the mozzie net on ?

No, because usually I make sure the windows are rolled up on the cab to
ensure the midges don't get in....

:-D

apod
30th June 2011, 09:04
There is a water bottle on issue made by Avon.

http://www.avon-protection.com/getimage.aspx.ID-132538.jpg

Sorry to contradict you but no its not.Well actually it was issued to some DFTC units and some lads in E Bde but not on a general issue scale to the whole DF such as the Camelbaks.That is the S10 bottle that came with each resi.Not generally issued because of the issue i outlined above.

morpheus
30th June 2011, 12:11
our unit (65th) was issued with these!?

apod
30th June 2011, 14:30
our unit (65th) was issued with these!?

Proven my point.:biggrin:
65 is a Dublin unit.Right?

GoneToTheCanner
30th June 2011, 15:39
yep.The Dubs get everything.Well known fact in entire DF:)
regards
GttC

concussion
30th June 2011, 21:49
Some good info coming out of here. I'm dead jealous of your rig S&S, it looks like a great set-up. The Foretrex 401 is a fantastic system, I use it for hiking, mountain biking and mil training and find it a massive improvement over the eTrex which I had before.

I've attached a few photo's of my CEFO, showing the strapping on the inside which I believe Apod mentioned - it took me an age to get it set up nicely and I still fiddle with it every so often but now it's pretty much a part of me when I wear it. I chose not to put the bungee all around the outside of the utility pouches as it either compressed them too much or hung slack, depending on what was in them at the time. Instead, I used an awl to push the bungee through the gap behind the clip and tied it back on itself. This stops them from moving independently of each other and the strap on the inside holds them against the ammo pouches. All the pouches are pushed as far to the rear as possible so I have no difficultly crawling or accessing ammo when I'm prone. My daysack is the shortish square 40 l from Protac and I find it excellent as it sits perfectly on top of the webbing.

I have: double ammo left and right, with the dividers ripped out of the ones on the right to hold frag (as if!) and smoke grenades. Alternatively I can carry 2x50 round belts if necessary.. Across the back I have three utility pouches - water and hexi in one, main meal, binos, GPS, cleaning kit and sandbag in the middle and the third empty for link. Immediately beside this is a single ammo pouch which contains my trauma kit - Israeli bandage, dressings, shears and a CAT and NPA whenever I get around to buying them. There is space for a bayonet immediately behind the left ammo pouch and I have threaded the clip from a set of '58 through one of the straps so I can attach my helmet where it doesn't swing about the place.

SwiftandSure
1st July 2011, 13:15
Nice loadout there Concussion, thanks for posting!

I used to have a set of DPM PLCE webbing in the BA which I customised to buggery. I have no photos but examples of the custom mods I put in were:

- Plasticuffs / large zip ties. I used to feed these horizontally through between the ammo pouches and the belt, so that they protruded out for immediate access when taking prisoners. (The same thinking went into my chest rig over the left shoulder)

- Utility strap. Threaded through the lower loops at the back of the pouches, I would clip it together with a quick release clip at the front, like a secondary belt. It held the pouches in place and could be adjusted if need be.

- Quick release yoke. The old body armour in the BA used to have a PLCE belt attachment at the back, this had a female quick release clip. I "acquired" two of these, with male counterparts, and made the front of the yoke releasable. The clips could comfortably hold a full battle load, and my whole belt kit would fall off me by releasing 4 clips (2x yoke, main belt, secondary belt as described above). The idea being that if I was injured, my CEFO was immediately removable without having to move me.

- Bayonet frog. To save space on the belt, I used to sit this between the loops of my left most utility pouch. It held the utility pouch in place and didn't compromise on space.

-Velcro. I always stitched in extra velcro into the ammo pouches with a protruding pull tab so that I didn't have to fiddle around too much with the PLCE clips. That way, I could reload comfortably with gloves on.

That's what I recall from the top of my head, was 10 years ago now. Shortly after finalising my belt kit, I moved onto an assault vest. We were vehicle mounted most of the time, so the transition made sense. Plus in early 2000's, vests just looked fricking cool!! :cool:

Infy
1st July 2011, 23:18
Nice load out concussion. I like the idea of the clip from the 58ptn for your helmet. I use a cable tie which does the trick nicely. Also keep cable ties under the cover of the helmet with the fat end sticking out. Nice and handy when you need them.

Vamp369
8th July 2011, 00:02
Hey all, here is my tic-tac load out.
Note: Missing a torch, mozzie spray and paracord as I gave them to folks who havenít returned them yet

A:
Complete kit with Bergen, and Web-tex US Woodland assault vest

B:
Web-tex US Woodland assault vest

C:
Left side of Vest:
Inner left zip pocket: TAMS, knife
Small stud fastened pouches x2: Paracord, heady(Buff), mozzie net, ear plugs
First/Second pouches: Ammo, (Holds 6 magazines)
Third pouch: First aid kit
Fourth pouch (Brit DPM): Mess tin, freezer bags, spork, baby wipes, alcohol wipes, water purification tablets

Right side of Vest:
Inner right zip pocket: Used as dump pouch
Admin pouch: Mirror, camo cream, insulating tape, sanitising cream for hands, light
First pouch: Tact gloves, Bonnie
Second pouch: Pletors
Third pouch: Water Canteen

F: Bergen unpacked

Outside pocket: Paracord, bungees, ground pegs, model kit
Inside Main pocket: x2 ponchos, one olive green for model making, sleeping bag, fleece, spare socks and jocks, t-shirts in dry compression sack, bivvy
Inside lid pocket: Hand saw, bog roll
Outside lid pocket: Issued TAMS, maps, aerosol for removing markers, spare batteries
Left rocket pouch: Water bottle 2l, mostly empty for rations
Right pocket pouch: Spare sockets, hat, gloves, spare base layer, foot powder, wash kit, rubbish bag

G: Day sack
Wet gear, hydration system 3l, rifle cleaning kit

Truck Driver
8th July 2011, 07:34
Hey all, here is my tic-tac load out.
Note: Missing a torch, mozzie spray and paracord as I gave them to folks who havenít returned them yet

A:
Complete kit with Bergen, and Web-tex US Woodland assault vest

B:
Web-tex US Woodland assault vest

C:
Left side of Vest:
Inner left zip pocket: TAMS, knife
Small stud fastened pouches x2: Paracord, heady(Buff), mozzie net, ear plugs
First/Second pouches: Ammo, (Holds 6 magazines)
Third pouch: First aid kit
Fourth pouch (Brit DPM): Mess tin, freezer bags, spork, baby wipes, alcohol wipes, water purification tablets

Right side of Vest:
Inner right zip pocket: Used as dump pouch
Admin pouch: Mirror, camo cream, insulating tape, sanitising cream for hands, light
First pouch: Tact gloves, Bonnie
Second pouch: Pletors
Third pouch: Water Canteen

F: Bergen unpacked

Outside pocket: Paracord, bungees, ground pegs, model kit
Inside Main pocket: x2 ponchos, one olive green for model making, sleeping bag, fleece, spare socks and jocks, t-shirts in dry compression sack, bivvy
Inside lid pocket: Hand saw, bog roll
Outside lid pocket: Issued TAMS, maps, aerosol for removing markers, spare batteries
Left rocket pouch: Water bottle 2l, mostly empty for rations
Right pocket pouch: Spare sockets, hat, gloves, spare base layer, foot powder, wash kit, rubbish bag

G: Day sack
Wet gear, hydration system 3l, rifle cleaning kit

Couple of pointers:

(a) Murph suggested this yonks ago, but instead of the aerosol tin for removing marker from
laminated maps, etc, have a pack of nail varnish remover pads. Smaller, takes up less room and
probably lighter in weight. I took this point on board for my Std NCO Cse and it worked a treat
Something like this:

http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580/1d/pics.Drugstore.com/prodimg/156861/200.jpg

(b) Pace Beads - again, this was another suggestion I took on board for my course, and they sure
came in handy out on the Slieve Bloom Mountains !!! Can buy them online, or use the push button thingys
that are on the drawcords of backpacks - can buy these in camping stores

Pace Beads:

http://beasheepdog.org/gear/diy/pacecounter/


(c) Are the loafers in picture A for the base camp ?

(d) What happened to pictures D and E ?

apod
8th July 2011, 09:43
Hey all, here is my tic-tac load out.Not a bad loadout but heres a few pointers to lighten the load[/B]
Note: Missing a torch, mozzie spray and paracord as I gave them to folks who havenít returned them yet

A:
Complete kit with Bergen, and [B]Web-tex[/COLOR[COLOR="yellow"]] US Woodland assault vestWebtex! Buy Webtex,buy twice!Its not IRR and the quality of their kit is shite.
B:
Web-tex US Woodland assault vest

C:
Left side of Vest:
Inner left zip pocket: TAMS, knife
Small stud fastened pouches x2: Paracord, heady(Buff), mozzie net, ear plugs
First/Second pouches: Ammo, (Holds 6 magazines)
Third pouch: First aid kit
Fourth pouch (Brit DPM): Mess tin,(Ditch this and get a metal mug that fits under your waterbottle.Use that to brew up and you will also have more space in the pouch where the messtin was) freezer bags, spork, baby wipes(kieep these with your hygiene kit in Bergen), alcohol wipes(sleeve pocket of smock with small bottle of alcho gel), water purification tablets(should be with your waterbottle.Tape them to outside of bottle in small ziploc)

Right side of Vest:
Inner right zip pocket: Used as dump pouch
Admin pouch: Mirror, camo cream, insulating tape, sanitising cream for hands(see above), light
First pouch: Tact gloves, Bonnie
Second pouch: Pletors
Third pouch: Water Canteen(should be co located with metal mug and puritabs)

F: Bergen unpacked

Outside pocket: Paracord, bungees, ground pegs, model kit(keep in lid pocket with TAMS and maps etc)
Inside Main pocket: x2 ponchos, one olive green for model makingDitch the second poncho.Use natural materials for models.Put other poncho with paracord attached in outside front pocket so if it gets wet it doesnt soak all your other kit!), sleeping bag, fleece(should be in Daysack), spare socks and jocks, t-shirts in dry compression sack(One spare thermal long sleeve top and a pair of socks for everyday on the ground and a spare pants is all you need.Keep these in a drybag in one of the rocket pouches, bivvyIs that a Bivvy bag?if so take out your sleeping bag from its stuff sack and put it into the Bivvy bag.That all you should have in the main compartment under your daysack.

Inside lid pocket: Hand saw, bog rollTake these items out and replace with your hygiene kit.replace large bulky toilet roll with one or two packs of ration pack tissues in ziploc.Also keep a pack in vest and another in daysack.

Outside lid pocket: Issued TAMS, maps, aerosol for removing markers, spare batteries
Left rocket pouch: Water bottle 2l, mostly empty for rations

Right pocket pouch: Spare socketsMove to daysack.Ziploced for emergencies, hat, gloves(Daysack), spare base layerWith spare clothes in other rocket, foot powder, wash kit, rubbish bagUnder lid pocket.

G: Day sack
Wet gear, hydration system 3l, rifle cleaning kitShould be in vest

Hope those tips help.:biggrin:

RoyalGreenJacket
8th July 2011, 10:44
Hope those tips help.:biggrin:

valid points apod, but that didn't help my eyes at all mate.

apod
8th July 2011, 10:47
Sorry Mate it was only after i read it myself that i realised how bad the red was and i tried changing to yellow.Made a balls of that so decided to leave it!
My bad:8(:8(:eek:

RoyalGreenJacket
8th July 2011, 10:57
its ok mate - i put on my 3D glasses and it's fine now, thanks.

Vamp369
9th July 2011, 11:29
Thanks for the help lads, much appreciated, especially the load lightening ones!




(c) Are the loafers in picture A for the base camp ?

(d) What happened to pictures D and E ?

That pic was taken on my bedroom floor and theres not alot of room so the loafers(I call them shoes?) squeezed in unintentionally:-D

And the site has a max of 5 items to be attached, I had planned for 7 but had to cut D and E to keep only the best pictures

Vamp369
9th July 2011, 11:35
Hope those tips help.:biggrin:

Yep, thanks very much. Hoping to be on the ground for a 72 ex in two weeks so I'll hopefully apply your tips for then

And with regards the Webtex, I got it because it is kinda similar to the issued vest, so if by some mircle I ever get one be and easy switch.

greyfox
9th July 2011, 20:18
vamp i recommend adding a secateurs to your cefo some-place , one of the handiest bits of kit i have .
+ 1 to truck drivers additions too, i have a pace counter on my dummy chord for my swiss army ,

trellheim
10th July 2011, 00:46
Note with Secateurs, buy the heaviest pair you can and never lend them. Some fecker always manages to break them on a california redwood.

Flamingo
10th July 2011, 01:52
Lidl were doing a good pair for £1.99 over here a few months ago.

A Leatherman Micra is pretty good as well, though a lot more expensive. Found one in a Millets sale a while ago for £10, I believe they are usually up to twice that. They have a really good pair of scissors on them, and fold up into nothing. I carry them along with my Swiss Army Knife all the time these days, and I use them more. I only keep the Swiss Army Knife for the toothpick at this stage, I think!

http://www.leatherman.com/product/Micra

paul
10th July 2011, 02:45
For when your put in a position for half a f**king tree in it, they fly through everything and weigh almost noting.

http://knradventuregear.com/images/knivestools/gerberfoldingsaw.jpg

ollie
10th July 2011, 10:39
+1 on the secatuers. Get a decent heavy duty one for your cefo , well worth the money.

I used to keep my basha, tent pegs, some paracord and bungees in an old 58' poncho roll that I clipped to my day sack. The small pocket on it held a small fold up saw like the one paul posted. Bought it in aldi and it did the job.

Thr only hassle with having gear to make yourself comfortable is that there is always someone who never brings anything on the ground and expects to borrow yours !!

Flamingo
10th July 2011, 11:03
I was once advised by an old soldier, never lend anything that is not issue.

apod
10th July 2011, 12:13
Just dont keep a Secatuers in your vest or in webbing pouches.The amount of pouches i have seen with holes worn in them from the nose of secatuers.
Keep them with your basha kit in your bergen as thats the time you will use them most.When Bivvying up.
Oh and wrap a heavy duty elastic band around them to stop them opening inadvertently as the tend to do.

mercurydoc
10th July 2011, 21:24
For when your put in a position for half a f**king tree in it, they fly through everything and weigh almost noting.

http://knradventuregear.com/images/knivestools/gerberfoldingsaw.jpg

Was in such a position once, 2 hours it took to dig down 1 foot x 7... went home and bought a saw straight after

Truck Driver
10th July 2011, 22:07
For when your put in a position for half a f**king tree in it, they fly through everything and weigh almost noting

+1 - great bit of kit to have handy

Was out on the ground a couple of years ago and saw (pun not intened :-D ) an MP,
of all troops, using one...


Just dont keep a Secatuers in your vest or in webbing pouches.The amount of pouches i have seen with holes worn in them from the nose of secatuers.
Keep them with your basha kit in your bergen as thats the time you will use them most.When Bivvying up.
Oh and wrap a heavy duty elastic band around them to stop them opening inadvertently as the tend to do.

Good tips there Apod, obvious ones that people would not be thinking of...

X-RayOne
10th July 2011, 22:11
this is slowly morphing into the "good tips, the knowledge thread"!!!

spaceghetti
10th July 2011, 22:13
Just dont keep a Secatuers in your vest or in webbing pouches.The amount of pouches i have seen with holes worn in them from the nose of secatuers.
Keep them with your basha kit in your bergen as thats the time you will use them most.When Bivvying up.
Oh and wrap a heavy duty elastic band around them to stop them opening inadvertently as the tend to do.

That would really depend on the secatuers.

Like mine has a lock button to prevent it front opening accidentally, and the lower cutting edge has a plastic/rubber cover on the tip so that when it's closed there are no sharp bits sticking out.

Thus rectifying both of those problems.

Not that i keep it in the vest anyways. I usually keep it in a pouch on the outside of my daysack.

apod
11th July 2011, 09:25
That would really depend on the secatuers.

Like mine has a lock button to prevent it front opening accidentally, and the lower cutting edge has a plastic/rubber cover on the tip so that when it's closed there are no sharp bits sticking out.

Thus rectifying both of those problems.

Not that i keep it in the vest anyways. I usually keep it in a pouch on the outside of my daysack.

Gucci.I like it.Where did you get it?

Oh yeah and perhaps this thread should be merged with the "Good tips thread"?

SwiftandSure
11th July 2011, 10:17
Spotted this in Woodies yesterday. That'll solve your punctured pouches problem.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5953&stc=1&d=1310375799

Can't account for strength, or quality though.

Flamingo
11th July 2011, 10:55
Looks good.

Edited to add - Just seen this reviewed on ARRSE. I think I know what's going on my birthday list.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/content/766-victorinox-soldier-s-knife.html
http://www.arrse.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=46227&d=1310331922
They seem to be between £30-£35 on 'tnet. Only downside is no corkscrew!

Come-quickly
30th July 2011, 18:27
A bit of advice needed.

Purchased an Arktis marine Assault Vest years ago but up to know had been doing things well served by well fitting and personalised belt kit.

Have been trying out fitting the contents of my webbing into the vest but I feel a pouch short.
Currently the ammo pouches are reserved for their intended purpose with the large utility pouches fitting only my 58 bottle and mess kit.
I can't really see a functional way of carrying model kit, chemlights, commscord, secateurs etc in it and one principle I always employ with my plce kit is having a spare pouch for the inevitable extra kit.

Am I barking up the wrong tree trying to carry the same kit in a vest. Or us it the wrong vest?

ollie
30th July 2011, 18:47
Looks good.

Edited to add - Just seen this reviewed on ARRSE. I think I know what's going on my birthday list.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/content/766-victorinox-soldier-s-knife.html
http://www.arrse.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=46227&d=1310331922
They seem to be between £30-£35 on 'tnet. Only downside is no corkscrew!

No worries on that score, sure most wine bottles come with screw caps these days :tongue:

spaceghetti
30th July 2011, 18:55
Looks good.

Edited to add - Just seen this reviewed on ARRSE. I think I know what's going on my birthday list.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/content/766-victorinox-soldier-s-knife.html
http://www.arrse.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=46227&d=1310331922
They seem to be between £30-£35 on 'tnet. Only downside is no corkscrew!

Ive got something kinda like that (as in multi-tools that have proper knives built in):
http://www.asmc.de/images/product_images/info_images/38029_0.jpg

http://www.asmc.de/images/product_images/info_images/38029_1.jpg

Handy yoke.

Rhodes
30th July 2011, 19:21
http://www.arrse.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=46227&d=1310331922
They seem to be between £30-£35 on 'tnet. Only downside is no corkscrew!

Thats the same as the issue knife apart from the handle.

Its very sharp and the wood saw is very good.

SwiftandSure
30th July 2011, 20:52
A bit of advice needed.

Purchased an Arktis marine Assault Vest years ago but up to know had been doing things well served by well fitting and personalised belt kit.

Have been trying out fitting the contents of my webbing into the vest but I feel a pouch short.
Currently the ammo pouches are reserved for their intended purpose with the large utility pouches fitting only my 58 bottle and mess kit.
I can't really see a functional way of carrying model kit, chemlights, commscord, secateurs etc in it and one principle I always employ with my plce kit is having a spare pouch for the inevitable extra kit.

Am I barking up the wrong tree trying to carry the same kit in a vest. Or us it the wrong vest?

They're a big vest alright, what role are you packing for? How much ammo are you planning to carry? Are you using a Daysack as part of your CEFO? Got any pics?

apod
30th July 2011, 21:34
A bit of advice needed.

Purchased an Arktis marine Assault Vest years ago but up to know had been doing things well served by well fitting and personalised belt kit.

Have been trying out fitting the contents of my webbing into the vest but I feel a pouch short.
Currently the ammo pouches are reserved for their intended purpose with the large utility pouches fitting only my 58 bottle and mess kit.
I can't really see a functional way of carrying model kit, chemlights, commscord, secateurs etc in it and one principle I always employ with my plce kit is having a spare pouch for the inevitable extra kit.

Am I barking up the wrong tree trying to carry the same kit in a vest. Or us it the wrong vest?

I think you are perhaps trying to fit to much kit into the vest.Could you list out all the items you are carrying in it as that would give us a better place to start from?
As SaS said already are you using a daysack aswell?(you should be;)) as if so you can distribute some of your non immediate use items into it.

Buck
30th July 2011, 21:35
Having a good deal of bother trying to find (Irish located) OG Utility Pouches. I have the NBC pouch but that's not worth a shite. Can anyone point in the right direction? Tried Protac, no use to me! Got a decent waterbottle pouch there though.

Come-quickly
31st July 2011, 00:51
Apod & SS:
I'll try and get used to putting anything not needed immediately to hand/for fighting into the daysack.
Cheers for the advice

morpheus
5th September 2011, 15:58
Anyone use a Tomahawk out on the ground instead of a knife? useful as an axe and a blade in most circumstance I would have thought? what do you think? considering picking one up.

SwiftandSure
5th September 2011, 16:05
Anyone use a Tomahawk out on the ground instead of a knife? useful as an axe and a blade in most circumstance I would have thought? what do you think? considering picking one up.

Like one of these?:

http://www.heinnie.com/uploads/images_products_large/2854.jpg

Ooooh, I dunno, they look a bit too pretentiously "high speed, low drag" for me. I like them and I'm not saying they wouldn't be useful, but I'm wondering if it crosses the function/fashion line.

I think you'd do well to just have a good solid fixed blade.

Goldie fish
5th September 2011, 16:29
Anyone use a Tomahawk out on the ground instead of a knife? useful as an axe and a blade in most circumstance I would have thought? what do you think? considering picking one up.

Ever tried peeling an apple with a tomahawk???


Magpie.

Captain Edmund Blackadder
5th September 2011, 16:35
Handy in a SIA. Them yokes kill just by brushing off you, and are great for cross map kills.

morpheus
5th September 2011, 16:48
wuss, peeling an apple.

anyway, ive a pen knife i can peel an apple with.

ever try chopping up a rabbit using an aldi folding hand saw? :D

Goldie fish
5th September 2011, 17:01
wuss, peeling an apple.

anyway, ive a pen knife i can peel an apple with.

ever try chopping up a rabbit using an aldi folding hand saw? :D

I have found that when people start carrying these type of "tools" about, there is a 99.998% chance that someone will decide he is a reincarnated Navaho or Sioux brave, and will attempt to launch said tool at nearby tree... 60% of the time someone walks in front of target tree. It all depends on the sanity of the tool tosser(in every sense) whether he decides to wait till person moves out of way before throwing.

Best left at home, or alternatively, on a lanyard attached to your person.

Unless you live in Rural Canada.

morpheus
5th September 2011, 17:30
and there was i
a responsible thirty something nco
who once almost lost a finger to an errant bow saw
hoping i could teach my braves, i mean section, how to make dream catchers, moccasins and feather ties for our throwing tomahawks...

ah ill think about it,

strangely enough i have a distinct fear of most of the types of knives Ive seen out on the ground,

Ive also done FIBUA and survival courses this year where something like this would've come in handy and was even recommended it by a PDF instructor,

as i don't have an axe either, but have seen them being used out on the ground to clear low branches in a patrol harbour, i figured i might buy one, this sort of led me astray to reading about how some US units have apparently taken to issuing tomahawks instead of knives and therefore i became interested in the practicalities of such a tool...

a lanyard would definitely be attached as it is my experience that if you loan anything to someone in a dark patrol harbor you most likely wont see it again, plus the first time i throw it will most likely be my last as it will end up embedded in my knee.

spaceghetti
5th September 2011, 19:39
Anyone use a Tomahawk out on the ground instead of a knife? useful as an axe and a blade in most circumstance I would have thought? what do you think? considering picking one up.

Sharpen the edge of your entrenching tool. Problem solved! (until it breaks.....)

paul
5th September 2011, 19:43
Sharpen the edge of your entrenching tool. Problem solved! (until it breaks.....)

or just get this

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b60OZhrTB6o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b60OZhrTB6o

Rhodes
5th September 2011, 19:44
Anyone use a Tomahawk out on the ground instead of a knife?

This fella has.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6052&stc=1&d=1315248165

spaceghetti
5th September 2011, 19:52
or just get this

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b60OZhrTB6o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b60OZhrTB6o

Or one of these.

http://www.my-toolshed.com/wp-content/uploads/14_4_orig.jpg

paul
5th September 2011, 20:20
Or one of these.

I perfer one of these

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3zIeffnFq9c/Tcc6aTOHM-I/AAAAAAAAGwc/nzroBbSNbfI/s320/bat%2Bwith%2B9%2Binch%2Bnails%2Bthrough%2Bit%2Bwea pon.jpg

spaceghetti
5th September 2011, 20:23
I perfer one of these

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3zIeffnFq9c/Tcc6aTOHM-I/AAAAAAAAGwc/nzroBbSNbfI/s320/bat%2Bwith%2B9%2Binch%2Bnails%2Bthrough%2Bit%2Bwea pon.jpg

This is just turning into a game of top trumps now...

http://www.energytribune.com/live_images/ET011509_coal_pic.jpg

paul
5th September 2011, 22:21
This is just turning into a game of top trumps now...

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/death-star-1.jpg

Check mate.

Captain Edmund Blackadder
5th September 2011, 22:44
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/death-star-1.jpg

Check mate.

Are you sure? One of these on your belt and you've got the beating of at least a division.

http://images.wikia.com/montypython/images/d/dd/Killer_rabbit.JPG

I have a Leatherman MUT. That does the job for me in most aspects of life. Easier to carry around than a tomahawk.

spaceghetti
5th September 2011, 22:48
Check mate.

....boom.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6059&stc=1&d=1315259708


http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo_Array

"When nothing else could be done, they activated the rings which killed all sentient life forms within three radii of the galactic center."

Does the job i suppose.....

northie
5th September 2011, 23:45
Anyone use a Tomahawk out on the ground instead of a knife? useful as an axe and a blade in most circumstance I would have thought? what do you think? considering picking one up.

How about a Kukri. Quite practical for clearing branches, roots etc. Some come with a smaller knife attached for sharpening, but have many other uses.

Mr. Tezza
6th September 2011, 00:35
This fella has.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6052&stc=1&d=1315248165

Sorry off-topic but...

AN IRISH DPM UBACS SHIRT?!

madmark
6th September 2011, 00:46
Sorry off-topic but...

AN IRISH DPM UBACS SHIRT?!

dri-flow with arms removed and dpm shirt sleeves stitched on me thinks

paul
6th September 2011, 00:55
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6059&stc=1&d=1315259708

Can't find a picture but, an army of pissed off pregnant women!

Captain Edmund Blackadder
6th September 2011, 00:58
Can't find a picture but, an army of pissed off pregnant women!

Or a mother in law...

paul
6th September 2011, 01:01
Or a mother in law...

Touche.

Barry
6th September 2011, 01:18
dri-flow with arms removed and dpm shirt sleeves stitched on me thinks
No, it's a proper UBACS type shirt, made by lowe alpine.

Truck Driver
6th September 2011, 04:08
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6059&stc=1&d=1315259708

:-D

SwiftandSure
6th September 2011, 09:40
Or one of these.

http://www.my-toolshed.com/wp-content/uploads/14_4_orig.jpg

Ah now, I have one of those, see HERE (http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/showthread.php?t=17139&highlight=man+shed)

Celtic-Warrior
6th September 2011, 12:20
Off topic but has anyone tried to heat ration pouchs with a jetboil? Got one on amazon but am not sure if the pouchs will fit in it? Probably not important as the RDF dont use ration packs but anyway! Has anyone tried it?

Barry
6th September 2011, 12:24
You need to manipulate the pouch into a shape that'll fit in the jetboil, but it's doable. You can actually fit 2 in together, which allows you to heat 2 meals with a very small amount of water. I've found that the best way to heat a meal is to bring the water to the boil (doesn't take very long if you have 2 meals in it), then turn the jetboil off and leave it for a few minutes. There's enough insulation to stop the heat from escaping from the cup at too fast a rate, so you save a lot of gas by not leaving it burning.

Celtic-Warrior
6th September 2011, 12:29
Its a jetboil flash so it might only fit the one because its slightly smaller. Cheers for the advice mate il have to try it out!

Mr. Tezza
6th September 2011, 12:57
No, it's a proper UBACS type shirt, made by lowe alpine.

Damn... how do i get me one of them?!

Barry
6th September 2011, 13:14
Damn... how do i get me one of them?!
Simple, you only have to pass one course: http://www.military.ie/army/organisation/arw/selection-course

Mr. Tezza
6th September 2011, 14:07
Simple, you only have to pass one course: http://www.military.ie/army/organisation/arw/selection-course

right, i won't be getting one anytime soon so...

Barry
6th September 2011, 14:12
I understand that they were looked at while the uniform was being redesigned to be extra-useless, but rejected on cost grounds in favour of DPM driflos.

Mr. Tezza
6th September 2011, 14:18
Ah yes, DPM dri-flos... I refer to my post (no. 48) in the "questions about uniform..." thread regarding what i think about them, it boggles the mind seeing that countries all over the world are switching to gear with UBACS shirts and we are dismissing them...

Rhodes
6th September 2011, 14:54
Off topic but has anyone tried to heat ration pouchs with a jetboil? Got one on amazon but am not sure if the pouchs will fit in it? Probably not important as the RDF dont use ration packs but anyway! Has anyone tried it?

Fits in no problem, probably fit two in if your not a me feinner.
A meal fits into the issue metal cup and a Jetboil is twice the size.
The Jetboil is very fast, uses less gas and the cup is insulated which holds in the heat longer.

DeV
6th September 2011, 17:46
dri-flow with arms removed and dpm shirt sleeves stitched on me thinks


No, it's a proper UBACS type shirt, made by lowe alpine.

It was made for people with blacked out faces.....


I understand that they were looked at while the uniform was being redesigned to be extra-useless, but rejected on cost grounds in favour of DPM driflos.


Ah yes, DPM dri-flos... I refer to my post (no. 48) in the "questions about uniform..." thread regarding what i think about them, it boggles the mind seeing that countries all over the world are switching to gear with UBACS shirts and we are dismissing them...

I presume a DPM driflo is all DPM (as opposed to UBACS shirt) - therefore it could (potentially not sure about DFRs) be worn as a DPM outer.

Mr. Tezza
6th September 2011, 18:40
I presume a DPM driflo is all DPM (as opposed to UBACS shirt) - therefore it could (potentially not sure about DFRs) be worn as a DPM outer.

If thats the case I can see people walking around wearing it as a muscle top (a certain RDF NCO springs to mind...(not me))

DeV
6th September 2011, 21:08
Depends on if it is allowed in barracks, it may just be for overseas and tactics at home, eg you take off your smock to do a dig in but you still have a DPM outer

Mr. Tezza
6th September 2011, 21:59
Depends on if it is allowed in barracks, it may just be for overseas and tactics at home, eg you take off your smock to do a dig in but you still have a DPM outer

True....

northie
6th September 2011, 23:40
It was made for people with blacked out faces.....





I presume a DPM driflo is all DPM (as opposed to UBACS shirt) - therefore it could (potentially not sure about DFRs) be worn as a DPM outer.

No doubt when it is issued an accompanying admin instruction will accompany it, just like the new barrack jacket.

RoyalGreenJacket
7th September 2011, 00:25
No doubt when it is issued an accompanying admin instruction will accompany it, just like the new barrack jacket.

at least you get one - we didn't get anything to go with our new MTP PCS CU and what a fcuk up that was (i mean how it was to be worn, not the actual uniform itself)!

apod
7th September 2011, 14:20
Ah yes, DPM dri-flos... I refer to my post (no. 48) in the "questions about uniform..." thread regarding what i think about them, it boggles the mind seeing that countries all over the world are switching to gear with UBACS shirts and we are dismissing them...
I just posted a reply to that in that thread.



I presume a DPM driflo is all DPM (as opposed to UBACS shirt) - therefore it could (potentially not sure about DFRs) be worn as a DPM outer.
Again.Answered in the other thread.:biggrin:



Depends on if it is allowed in barracks, it may just be for overseas and tactics at home, eg you take off your smock to do a dig in but you still have a DPM outer
Again.Answered in the other thread.They will be allowed in Bks as there wont be any alternative on issue.Obviously those who recieved a previous issue of the OG style will continue to wear them until they wear out and are replaced with the DPM version.

morpheus
13th September 2011, 10:28
Anyone here every hear of the use of a digital Dictaphone when receiving orders platoon commanders to help you prepare your own later on? Was told to us by a PDF Sgt (recce platoon) on POTS course last year. :eek:

SwiftandSure
13th September 2011, 11:20
Wouldn't be the worst idea, providing you deleted the recording immediately after you've used it to prepare your own orders.
Wouldn't want that to fall into enemy hands now :-D

DeV
13th September 2011, 17:49
Anyone here every hear of the use of a digital Dictaphone when receiving orders platoon commanders to help you prepare your own later on? Was told to us by a PDF Sgt (recce platoon) on POTS course last year. :eek:

At platoon commanders orders??? In a very completed operation maybe but shouldn't be required at that level!

Keef
13th September 2011, 18:11
Will be going on ex in the upcoming weeks. Will take pictures when getting it squared away.

Craghopper
13th September 2011, 18:22
No, it's a proper UBACS type shirt, made by lowe alpine.

Sorry Bud..It is a Dri-flo shirt combi.. not a UBACS.

Keef
13th September 2011, 18:24
Like one of these?:

http://www.heinnie.com/uploads/images_products_large/2854.jpg

Ooooh, I dunno, they look a bit too pretentiously "high speed, low drag" for me. I like them and I'm not saying they wouldn't be useful, but I'm wondering if it crosses the function/fashion line.

I think you'd do well to just have a good solid fixed blade.

You can kill anything with a Tomahawk!

Bam Bam
14th September 2011, 17:43
At platoon commanders orders??? In a very completed operation maybe but shouldn't be required at that level!

In the RDF all orders are complicated!


Though shouldn't you be provided with the orders in writing, especially if you request it?

Craghopper
14th September 2011, 19:44
In the RDF all orders are complicated!


Though shouldn't you be provided with the orders in writing, especially if you request it?

buhahahahhahahaahhaahhaah! I dare you to go up to a Coy Cmdr and request written orders!!

:-D


Coy Comdrs Orders are given to Pln Comdrs who in turn are then given to the Pln Sgt and Sec Comdrs... You learn short hand.

DeV
15th September 2011, 07:53
buhahahahhahahaahhaahhaah! I dare you to go up to a Coy Cmdr and request written orders!!

:-D


Coy Comdrs Orders are given to Pln Comdrs who in turn are then given to the Pln Sgt and Sec Comdrs... You learn short hand.

And how to extract what is important - you should never take orders down word for word because then you aren't actually listening (same with any note taking)

apod
15th September 2011, 11:41
Sorry Bud..It is a Dri-flo shirt combi.. not a UBACS.

I dont think so.Heres a pic of a soldier in Chad wearing an improvised UBACS.Look nothing like the ARW one.No sleeve pockets other than the normal pen pocket.Button collar instead of the zippered one on the ARW shirt.DPM material on front of shirt below collar.

morpheus
15th September 2011, 12:11
looks like they just cut up old dpm shirts and wore the top over a dry flow t shirt!

spaceghetti
15th September 2011, 13:25
I dont think so.Heres a pic of a soldier in Chad wearing an improvised UBACS.Look nothing like the ARW one.No sleeve pockets other than the normal pen pocket.Button collar instead of the zippered one on the ARW shirt.DPM material on front of shirt below collar.

Also notice in the pic of the ARW shirt it has large cargo pockets on both arms instead of the regular pockets

Mr. Tezza
15th September 2011, 22:50
looks like they just cut up old dpm shirts and wore the top over a dry flow t shirt!

thats what i was thinking!

Hello Alaska
16th September 2011, 12:03
Anyone here every hear of the use of a digital Dictaphone when receiving orders platoon commanders to help you prepare your own later on? Was told to us by a PDF Sgt (recce platoon) on POTS course last year. :eek:

We use them in OP's, to save you trying to log stuff in the middle of the night.

Bit much for orders though.

trellheim
16th September 2011, 13:05
receiving orders platoon commanders to help you prepare your own later on Extraction of "your bit" of orders is a vital skill in itself, for example turning up beforehand to copy down the map, and trying to get the 2IC or Pl/Sgt to weasel any info out before it starts, so you can concentrate on main mission and assigned tasks/send a warno.

if you have a dictaphone or a mobile phone the next thing is the battery will go and then you are up the swanee with no notes.

morpheus
16th September 2011, 14:16
I mean sit there taking down the orders but also record the information too, later on when preparing yours if you arent sure about something you can replay it!!!

trellheim
16th September 2011, 14:31
That's what briefback and "Any Questions" is for. On the surface it looks good, but in reality you'd be all over the place listening to 20 mins of orders to get the frequency/callsign you missed the first time.

Craghopper
29th September 2011, 16:09
I dont think so.Heres a pic of a soldier in Chad wearing an improvised UBACS.Look nothing like the ARW one.No sleeve pockets other than the normal pen pocket.Button collar instead of the zippered one on the ARW shirt.DPM material on front of shirt below collar.

I can tell you right now It was a made up one.....

Craghopper
29th September 2011, 16:10
And how to extract what is important - you should never take orders down word for word because then you aren't actually listening (same with any note taking)

Yes..Which is why I said in my post..Learn Short hand.

Kieran
1st October 2011, 01:50
If your looking for od pouces and plce, i know alot of bushcrafty types swear by endi's

http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=74&products_id=2137

and for knives/multi tools/tomahawks/other bits of kit this lot are great to deal with

http://www.heinnie.com/

SwiftandSure
2nd October 2011, 22:52
I amended my chest rig slightly for the last Ex. The main change being the integration of a trusty 58 water bottle on my rig. The 3L bladder is in the day sack.

I added in the full compliment of smoke grenade pouches as they compress down nicely when not in use, but give me the additional pyro carriage capability.

I lowered the monocular and penknife pouches to make space for my GPS pouch above them, this stops it protruding too far off my chest. Which gave me cause for concern before when crawling through tight spaces.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6122&stc=1&d=1317593318

The daysack is becoming my concern now. Carrying a full size SINCGAR and a 3L bladder it leaves little space inside for much else. I can keep the other gear, rations / weapon cleaning kit / spare base layer etc in pouches MOLLE'd to the outside of the pack, but then it makes it almost impossible to pack the daysack with the bergan. Basically, I don't think that a "3 day" pack and Bergan are compatible. Neither is a shoot and scoot bag with a SINCGAR 119C. If I had a 119E, I'd be grand, but unfortunately, they're not available at present where I am. :mad:

I'm thinking a belt kit configuration to take the load and bulk out of my daysack is going to be the way forward.

Buck
2nd October 2011, 23:05
Photo isn't showing!

SwiftandSure
2nd October 2011, 23:09
How about now?

Vamp369
2nd October 2011, 23:10
The pic ain't displaying

Vamp369
2nd October 2011, 23:19
The daysack is becoming my concern now. Carrying a full size SINCGAR and a 3L bladder it leaves little space inside for much else. I can keep the other gear, rations / weapon cleaning kit / spare base layer etc in pouches MOLLE'd to the outside of the pack, but then it makes it almost impossible to pack the daysack with the bergan. Basically, I don't think that a "3 day" pack and Bergan are compatible. Neither is a shoot and scoot bag with a SINCGAR 119C. If I had a 119E, I'd be grand, but unfortunately, they're not available at present where I am. :mad:

Looking good. Do you use your smock pockets? Well the bottom ones, can you use the tops ones with the rig? Could fit a base layer, cleaning kit etc in them.

SwiftandSure
2nd October 2011, 23:32
Looking good. Do you use your smock pockets? Well the bottom ones, can you use the tops ones with the rig? Could fit a base layer, cleaning kit etc in them.

I'm actually considering wearing the DPM rain jacket for the assessments (to save me carrying that too) and keeping my spare base layer, hat, shemagh and socks in the pouch at the back of the jacket. That way it's on my first line and water proofed. Haven't tested that yet, but will at some stage this week.

Vamp369
2nd October 2011, 23:45
I find using the bottom pockets for soft items works well, even using trouser pockets some times for a hat and glove. Like it mainly so when prone, im comfy.

I would prefer the shirt myself if I had the choice. Smock to patrol habour then shirt. The rain jacket is just to bloody noisy for my liking. Would love a removable hood. Or maybe just a smaller jacket.

Seen a few rigs with a vest and belt order. Seem to work well, lots of room.

That will give you a comfy seat as well

SwiftandSure
3rd October 2011, 11:45
I keep my bottom pockets for my bush hat, gloves and sticky bars for energy. Other than that, I try not to clog them with too much shite.

broadsword
3rd October 2011, 15:42
lads,
do what i do get a size down next time you get a new smock.
lets face it's jus a slighter heavyr shirt.
it work graet and ye have all the pockets

Duffman
3rd October 2011, 16:00
lads,
do what i do get a size down next time you get a new smock.
lets face it's jus a slighter heavyr shirt.
it work graet and ye have all the pockets

Don't think I'd fit into a size down? Also what about wearing warm gear / armour under the smock? Don't think thats too practical IMO!

Goldie fish
3rd October 2011, 16:08
chafe chafe chafe chafe

Come-quickly
3rd October 2011, 20:41
I amended my chest rig slightly for the last Ex. The main change being the integration of a trusty 58 water bottle on my rig. The 3L bladder is in the day sack.

I added in the full compliment of smoke grenade pouches as they compress down nicely when not in use, but give me the additional pyro carriage capability.

I lowered the monocular and penknife pouches to make space for my GPS pouch above them, this stops it protruding too far off my chest. Which gave me cause for concern before when crawling through tight spaces.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6122&stc=1&d=1317593318

The daysack is becoming my concern now. Carrying a full size SINCGAR and a 3L bladder it leaves little space inside for much else. I can keep the other gear, rations / weapon cleaning kit / spare base layer etc in pouches MOLLE'd to the outside of the pack, but then it makes it almost impossible to pack the daysack with the bergan. Basically, I don't think that a "3 day" pack and Bergan are compatible. Neither is a shoot and scoot bag with a SINCGAR 119C. If I had a 119E, I'd be grand, but unfortunately, they're not available at present where I am. :mad:

I'm thinking a belt kit configuration to take the load and bulk out of my daysack is going to be the way forward.

Have you considered a manbag to supplement your rig/plate carrier?

A fair few of that quare orphan killing mercenary bunch across the water (sorry, thought I'd better appease the new IMO hate wing) have started wearing the molle belt under their rigs/pcs some with and some without the yoke and harness.

I'm thinking they must be keeping it fairly low profile (and I'm told mostly for magazines) and I certainly wouldn't trust it to carry kidney pouches PLCE style, but you could probably
carry a few small lightweight items that way.

Vamp369
3rd October 2011, 23:21
lads,
do what i do get a size down next time you get a new smock.
lets face it's jus a slighter heavyr shirt.
it work graet and ye have all the pockets

It would be a bloody miracle if I got a different smock. RDF aint too keen in running proper stores

SwiftandSure
3rd October 2011, 23:26
Have you considered a manbag to supplement your rig/plate carrier?

Nah, it's not for me. If I were driving tactically, or vehicle mounted, then I'd get a bug-out bag, but not for being on foot.


A fair few of that quare orphan killing mercenary bunch across the water (sorry, thought I'd better appease the new IMO hate wing) have started wearing the molle belt under their rigs/pcs some with and some without the yoke and harness.

I'm thinking they must be keeping it fairly low profile (and I'm told mostly for magazines) and I certainly wouldn't trust it to carry kidney pouches PLCE style, but you could probably
carry a few small lightweight items that way.

Like this?

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5862&stc=1&d=130808839%20%204

I'm thinking about taking the yoke off this belt, and putting two quick release clips on the rear loops and strapping them to the rear of the back panel. Then having two utility pouches bungee'd in tight at the rear to hold the excess kit that won't fit in my daysack. That way, the belt is supported off the rig, but can be easily removed for jumping in a vehicle.

Will give it a crack sometime and post up a photo.

Mr. Tezza
4th October 2011, 00:19
I amended my chest rig slightly for the last Ex. The main change being the integration of a trusty 58 water bottle on my rig. The 3L bladder is in the day sack.

I added in the full compliment of smoke grenade pouches as they compress down nicely when not in use, but give me the additional pyro carriage capability.

I lowered the monocular and penknife pouches to make space for my GPS pouch above them, this stops it protruding too far off my chest. Which gave me cause for concern before when crawling through tight spaces.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6122&stc=1&d=1317593318

The daysack is becoming my concern now. Carrying a full size SINCGAR and a 3L bladder it leaves little space inside for much else. I can keep the other gear, rations / weapon cleaning kit / spare base layer etc in pouches MOLLE'd to the outside of the pack, but then it makes it almost impossible to pack the daysack with the bergan. Basically, I don't think that a "3 day" pack and Bergan are compatible. Neither is a shoot and scoot bag with a SINCGAR 119C. If I had a 119E, I'd be grand, but unfortunately, they're not available at present where I am. :mad:

I'm thinking a belt kit configuration to take the load and bulk out of my daysack is going to be the way forward.

You actually get away witrh wearing that on exercises? i'd prob get the head chewed off me if i tried wearing something like that on exercise! is it an airsoft copy or the real deal? CIRAS?

Celtic-Warrior
4th October 2011, 00:43
Its real deal mate i use a similar rig myself. See uktactical.com for more info its warrior assault systems kit. Excellent quality kit you should check it out. Lot of our lads using it now !!!

Mr. Tezza
4th October 2011, 02:20
Looks like a nice bit of kit! But i can't see myself getting away with wearing something like that out on the ground on exercise! well maybe if i was an officer but i'm only a cpl... I've never seen anyting like that being worn on the ground, closest is on of the lads had the Irish Battle Vest but thats it really...

SwiftandSure
4th October 2011, 09:00
You actually get away witrh wearing that on exercises? i'd prob get the head chewed off me if i tried wearing something like that on exercise! is it an airsoft copy or the real deal? CIRAS?

Real deal mate, all made with 1000D Cordura, triple stitched, with detailed attention paid to functionality. It is a plate carrying chest rig, but not CIRAS.

There's at least 5 other lads in my unit who've gone and bought a similar rig to mine from www.UKTactical.com.

I suppose I got away with it, because I just turned up in the gear, and nobody told me I couldn't wear it. If I was questioned why I have it, I'd outline my reasons based on experience of wearing other belt kits, vests and chest rigs.

morpheus
4th October 2011, 09:14
Looks like a nice bit of kit! But i can't see myself getting away with wearing something like that out on the ground on exercise! well maybe if i was an officer but i'm only a cpl... I've never seen anyting like that being worn on the ground, closest is on of the lads had the Irish Battle Vest but thats it really...

we all wear different sorts of battle vests (usually french woodland or protac DPM) in our unit (infantry E Bde), my issue being that if the PDF go with battle vests as being current doctrine then why are we stuck wearing PLCE? You cant wear it in the trucks, you cant wear it in any vehicles for that matter, plus you cant wear a decent bergan as they push down on the rear pouches. It will take a direct order to get me back into PLCE or else a training ex that i deem requires it.:tongue:

However we still carry out full training for 3 stars and 2 stars on the proper use of the standard RDF CEFO and CEMO and this is ultimately whats issued from stores. however as you can imagine, having this gear constantly unpacked and in stores and receiving it the bloody night before you go out and having to pack it adjust it then is a pain in the rocks. having my own battle vest ready to rock and sitting waiting for me to go at home is a time saver.

DeV
4th October 2011, 10:05
we all wear different sorts of battle vests (usually french woodland or protac DPM) in our unit (infantry E Bde), my issue being that if the PDF go with battle vests as being current doctrine then why are we stuck wearing PLCE? You cant wear it in the trucks, you cant wear it in any vehicles for that matter, plus you cant wear a decent bergan as they push down on the rear pouches. It will take a direct order to get me back into PLCE or else a training ex that i deem requires it.:tongue:

However we still carry out full training for 3 stars and 2 stars on the proper use of the standard RDF CEFO and CEMO and this is ultimately whats issued from stores. however as you can imagine, having this gear constantly unpacked and in stores and receiving it the bloody night before you go out and having to pack it adjust it then is a pain in the rocks. having my own battle vest ready to rock and sitting waiting for me to go at home is a time saver.

Because not enough of the new equipment was purchased to provide for the RDF, for the amount of time it is used it is better VFM to give the RDF (serviceable) PLCE. You will notice that in some brigade, PDF recruits trained with PLCE.

The PDF were able to cope with PLCE CEFO and CEMO long enough, why not us?

It is unlikely that RDF personnel will get personal issue CEMO anytime soon so, once it has been taught, leave it put together. Adjustment should take only a few minutes (the only problem could be the belt size or moving the ammo pouches.

Celtic-Warrior
4th October 2011, 11:18
Things musnt be too bad in the east we have had personal issue CEMOfor the last 18months or so. Most of it being decent enough quality and condition i must admit!

Docman
4th October 2011, 12:23
I suppose I got away with it, because I just turned up in the gear, and nobody told me I couldn't wear it. If I was questioned why I have it, I'd outline my reasons based on experience of wearing other belt kits, vests and chest rigs.

There is a COS instruction on it. I thought I had a copy of it but I have definitely seen it.

Come-quickly
4th October 2011, 12:31
PLCE Belt kit (with a degree of personalisation, the magic of cable ties, bungee cords and a bit of rollmat foam) is still the dogs for all sorts of stuff, namely anything out in the open, where it lets you carry lots of kit, and is generally handy for the tabbing over mountains and doing advance to contact lifestyle.

Vests/Rigs/Plate Carriers: Come into their own when operating from vehicles or other tight spaces, or thick vegetation, built up areas where a lower profile is a big help, they're also easier to sleep in and latrine in.

Since we regrettably don't train with body armour on a regular basis in the reserve I've no idea how well belt kit goes with it, but as Dev said, the PDF managed it in the past.

Overall it's horses for courses.

Mr. Tezza
4th October 2011, 15:05
we all wear different sorts of battle vests (usually french woodland or protac DPM) in our unit (infantry E Bde), my issue being that if the PDF go with battle vests as being current doctrine then why are we stuck wearing PLCE? You cant wear it in the trucks, you cant wear it in any vehicles for that matter, plus you cant wear a decent bergan as they push down on the rear pouches. It will take a direct order to get me back into PLCE or else a training ex that i deem requires it.:tongue:

However we still carry out full training for 3 stars and 2 stars on the proper use of the standard RDF CEFO and CEMO and this is ultimately whats issued from stores. however as you can imagine, having this gear constantly unpacked and in stores and receiving it the bloody night before you go out and having to pack it adjust it then is a pain in the rocks. having my own battle vest ready to rock and sitting waiting for me to go at home is a time saver.

That'd be the reason why I got my own PLCE and have it constantly packed so when I go to camps/field days/exercies I just grab it, put in ther perishables (food/water) and off I go.

I have an OD battle vest for airsofting :cool: which does the job for that but I don't get down on the beltbuckle and crawl around as much as I do on tactics, last time I did that in airsoft I lost 2 mags! As was said in earlier posts I think that chest rigs/plate carriers/battle vests are a great job but for tactics and exercies you just can't beat the PLCE, provided its fitted to you properly of course!

Keef
4th October 2011, 20:17
Well, I finally got around to taking a few snaps of the kit.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/metallipath/Image055edit.jpg



Spare waterproof bags.
Sweat rag.
Plates.
2 X Karabiners
Stash bags.
4 rods together for stoppages.
Contractors hat.
Mine marking kit.
Towel.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/metallipath/Image054.jpg




Helly hansen top.
Jetboil.
Shemagh
Boot brushes and polish.
Electric shaver.
Velcro badges.
Spork!
Rifle sling.
Maglight with spare batts.
2 canoe bags for bergan side pouches.
Ops folder.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/metallipath/Image053edit.jpg



MTP bushat.
Cam cream.
Belt.
Ballistic glasses.
Ear defence.
Bungees.
First aid kit.
Sealskin hat.
Spray bottle for oil.
Karabiner.
Blowtorch lighter.
Headtorch.
Clipboard thingys for map.
Housewife.
Flug.
Gloves.
Mag charger.
Notepad and pens.
Packing beads.
Folding saw.. LMG combi tool.





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/metallipath/Image042.jpg



Helmet with TRF and Bloodgroup and 2 X catseyes.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/metallipath/Image056-1.jpg



My body armour with webbing.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/metallipath/Image057-1.jpg




Daysack.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/metallipath/Image050.jpg



Bergan. (Duh)



Not as gucci as some of the other kit seen in this thread, but it works for me and I'm happy with it.

spaceghetti
4th October 2011, 20:35
MTP bushat.
Cam cream.
Belt.
Ballistic glasses.
Ear defence.
Bungees.
First aid kit.
Sealskin hat.
Spray bottle for oil.
Karabiner.
Blowtorch lighter.
Headtorch.
Clipboard thingys for map.
Housewife.
Flug.
Gloves.
Mag charger.
Notepad and pens.
Packing beads.
Folding saw.. LMG combi tool.

What the flug is a flugging flug? :tongue:

Keef
4th October 2011, 20:44
What the flug is a flugging flug? :tongue:

Whoops. Just a flask. Crowed it there a bit.

(A flug is a flask and a mug in 1)

apod
4th October 2011, 21:10
Aka the "Me feiner" flask in the PDF.:-D
Although its usually only called that by those who are too tight to buy their own so they expect to live in your ear instead!

Nice pics Keef.You get to keep the osprey and all 40 odd pouches when you finish your tour now?
I thought ye had to hand them in.:S

S&S: Its no hassle packing a full size Sincgar into a 35 ltr issue daysack with all your admin and Camelbak(and it will still slot down into the bergan main compartment).Half size is better i admit.What size is your daysack?

Keef
4th October 2011, 21:50
Aka the "Me feiner" flask in the PDF.:-D
Although its usually only called that by those who are too tight to buy their own so they expect to live in your ear instead!

Nice pics Keef.You get to keep the osprey and all 40 odd pouches when you finish your tour now?
I thought ye had to hand them in.:S


Apod, you can have some of my brew if you want. ;)

Aye, pouches were meant to be handed in there at one stage... Might have been tasked to do something else at that moment in time. ;)

SwiftandSure
4th October 2011, 22:45
S&S: Its no hassle packing a full size Sincgar into a 35 ltr issue daysack with all your admin and Camelbak(and it will still slot down into the bergan main compartment).Half size is better i admit.What size is your daysack?

My daysack is about 40/45 Litres. It's a TAS Op Patrol Pack (LINK (http://www.kitmonster.co.uk/product_info.php/cPath/48/products_id/396))

In the main pack I can get the 119C, 3L camelbak, base layer, socks, and few other smaller items, but the rest need to go into pouches elsewhere. Probably a belt kit.

I've packed my sleeping bag into my side pouch (contrary to my usual SOP) in a canoe bag to make space in the main compartment of the bergan to accommodate my daysack so that the most dense heavy weight is more central, rather than hanging off my back or being too top heavy.

Keef, good post mate, tell me, do you integrate that daysack as you have it packed with your bergan or do you have to scale it down? Do you strap it to the outside? Or pack it internally?

RoyalGreenJacket
4th October 2011, 23:10
nice kit Keef, do you use your pacing beads much, did you ever actually use them in Afghan?

i'm just wondering, but they are still a great and essential back-up bit of kit in navigation regardless.

don't you use your issued inflatable sleeping mat instead of a roll mat?

the only other thing i haven't seen mentioned in anyones kit (correct me if i am wrong) is a BetaLight - this is the type i have and it's great where low level 'tactical' light is required:

http://www.betalight.nl/files/609bvn2s0.jpg

Keef
4th October 2011, 23:53
nice kit Keef, do you use your pacing beads much, did you ever actually use them in Afghan?

i'm just wondering, but they are still a great and essential back-up bit of kit in navigation regardless.

don't you use your issued inflatable sleeping mat instead of a roll mat?


Nah, no real need for pacing beads in Afghan I thought. The AO was very linear and was easy to navigate around.
I have em handy for nav-ex's and whatnot.

The issued inflatable one is good, but when out in the field it could get snagged and punctured so I just stick with the ole faithful.

RoyalGreenJacket
5th October 2011, 12:44
Nah, no real need for pacing beads in Afghan I thought. The AO was very linear and was easy to navigate around.
I have em handy for nav-ex's and whatnot.

The issued inflatable one is good, but when out in the field it could get snagged and punctured so I just stick with the ole faithful.

fair one mate, how was the Osprey / Pouch solution for you?

apod
5th October 2011, 13:23
My daysack is about 40/45 Litres. It's a TAS Op Patrol Pack (LINK (http://www.kitmonster.co.uk/product_info.php/cPath/48/products_id/396))

In the main pack I can get the 119C, 3L camelbak, base layer, socks, and few other smaller items, but the rest need to go into pouches elsewhere. Probably a belt kit.

I know i use an IPLCS Bergan and daysack so its not exactly comparing like with like but if i could fit a 119C and all my usual admin into a 35 Ltr daysack and you have a 45 Ltr one then where is the issue???:S

Or am i missing something here?

X-RayOne
5th October 2011, 13:34
seems to me its more a case of SwiftandSure having to take a long hard look at what he carries and where.

carry capacity doesn't seem to be an issue so could be more benefit to downsize the amount of kit. is is all really necessary?

adding belt kit to vest, daysack and rucksack will just mean more weight to carry. as a matter of interest what extra things do you want to carry or can't fit with Sincgar in daysack?

Duffman
5th October 2011, 16:01
PLCE Belt kit (with a degree of personalisation, the magic of cable ties, bungee cords and a bit of rollmat foam) is still the dogs for all sorts of stuff, namely anything out in the open, where it lets you carry lots of kit, and is generally handy for the tabbing over mountains and doing advance to contact lifestyle.

Vests/Rigs/Plate Carriers: Come into their own when operating from vehicles or other tight spaces, or thick vegetation, built up areas where a lower profile is a big help, they're also easier to sleep in and latrine in.

Since we regrettably don't train with body armour on a regular basis in the reserve I've no idea how well belt kit goes with it, but as Dev said, the PDF managed it in the past.

Overall it's horses for courses.


+1 I'm delighted with the state in which the issue PLCE came into us. We are now getting a better issue of eqpt than ever before. If the pouch clip is U/S it is easily replaced on account of huge amount of spares knocking about as opposed to having sets of 58 ptn held together by cobwebs and black tape.

There is nothing wrong the issue PLCE it is perfectly fit for purpose it did the PDF for long enough. As my granny would say "tis far from templar assault systems you were raised".

In saying that I wear I wear a gucci tac vest myself, as I think if your willing to shell out the beer tokens for a decent one..why not!? But if not PLCE does the job perfectly.