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  • Helicopter requirements under review in new round of defence cuts

    Forces to lose more helicopters in new round of defence cuts

    The Ministry of Defence has begun a review of helicopter requirements to ensure a "balanced and affordable plan" for the future.

    The "rotary wing capability study" prompted warnings from defence industry sources that a number of programmes were "extremely vulnerable".

    An order for 12 new Chinooks is likely to be reduced, executives fear.

    Commanders are waiting for ministers to sign off the order, cut from 22 in the Strategic Defence and Security Review last year. Maj Gen Bill Moore, master general of the ordnance and director battlespace manoeuvre, told a recent conference that the Armed Forces did not have enough heavy-lifting helicopters.

    "We need to buy additional Chinook to improve our lift," he told the Royal United Services Institute. "Our lift at the moment will not allow us to do what the Government requires us to do on operations."

    The helicopter review, led by Maj Gen Moore, is expected to conclude in the autumn. Its findings are likely to inform the MoD's 2011-12 financial planning round, which is widely expected to make new cuts in the Armed Forces.

    Any further reduction in helicopter capability would be difficult for Dr Liam Fox, the Defence Secretary. In opposition, he frequently criticised Labour over the provision of helicopters for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Kevan Jones, a Labour shadow defence minister, said: "It is ironic that such a vociferous critic of the previous government over helicopters, now in a position to do something about it, appears not to be acting on his words."

    A £300 million programme to upgrade 30 Puma medium transport helicopters is also said to be under threat, despite a signed contract with penalty clauses.

    Another possibility is that the new review could lead to cuts in ship-based helicopters operated by the Royal Navy.

    The defence review last year promised that the number of maritime helicopters would be "aligned to the overall size of the future maritime force structure".

    The Navy's surface warfare fleet is being cut from 23 to 19.

    "Everything is vulnerable," said a defence industry source. "The problems in British defence procurement are so deep that they are damn near insurmountable."

    The MoD said the helicopter review would consider all aspects of British military helicopters. It would "re-examine defence's helicopter requirement to deliver the Future Force 2020 vision set out in the Strategic Defence and Security Review and ensure a balanced and affordable plan," a spokesman said.

    Last edited by Vickers; 21 June 2011, 00:50. Reason: To replace newspaper header

  • #2
    where is it stated we are "to lose more helicopters in new round of defence cuts"?

    this is just the beginning of a review of lift capability for the future.

    the title of this thread might apply in a year or two, but we are not losing any helicopters, yet.

    maybe when we do you can get a bargain on some of our old Pumas?
    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 18 June 2011, 18:35.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

    Comment


    • #3
      Chinook order

      The UK MOD's response yesterday:

      Plans for Chinooks
      The Daily Telegraph reports that the MOD's plans to buy new Chinook helicopters are under threat. As announced in the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR), the MOD plans to buy 12 additional Chinook helicopters for the RAF, as well as a further two to replace those lost on operations in Afghanistan in 2009. This remains the case and we are currently preparing to sign the final contract with Boeing. The two-fleet force of Chinook and Merlin gives us an effective and efficient way to move our personnel and equipment.
      Is the reference to the two fleet force significant?
      Last edited by Orion; 18 June 2011, 20:12.

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      • #4
        i think yes we will end up with only Merlin and Chinook, with no Sea King or Puma.

        the only thing this article actually confirms is that we are getting more heli's than we originally intended - replacing the 2 Chinooks we lost on operations.
        RGJ

        ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

        The Rifles

        Comment


        • #5
          MOD: I have changed the title of the thread. If the review results in a loss of helicopters I will change the title to reflect this.

          BTW the title paul g used was the one used by the Telegraph as the header for the article
          Last edited by Vickers; 18 June 2011, 20:00. Reason: add more info
          "Fellow-soldiers of the Irish Republican Army, I have just received a communication from Commandant Pearse calling on us to surrender and you will agree with me that this is the hardest task we have been called upon to perform during this eventful week, but we came into this fight for Irish Independence in obedience to the commands of our higher officers and now in obedience to their wishes we must surrender. I know you would, like myself, prefer to be with our comrades who have already fallen in the fight - we, too, should rather die in this glorious struggle than submit to the enemy." Volunteer Captain Patrick Holahan to 58 of his men at North Brunswick Street, the last group of the Four Courts Garrison to surrender, Sunday 30 April 1916.

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          • #6
            The Defence Secretary, Dr Liam Fox, has today announced a contract award for 14 new Chinook helicopters, the RAF's workhorse on the front line in Afghanistan.



            Already the largest fleet in Europe, this new contract will bring the UK's overall number of Chinooks to 60. The contract with Boeing to supply the Chinook heavy lift helicopters will bring a significant enhancement to the mobility of front line forces.

            read more here: http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...bnContract.htm

            a welcome uplift, not making the same mistakes they made with the last batch we ordered.
            RGJ

            ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

            The Rifles

            Comment


            • #7
              £1 billion for just 14 helicopters! Bloody expensive! US Army gets them much cheaper than that.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by easyrider View Post
                £1 billion for just 14 helicopters! Bloody expensive! US Army gets them much cheaper than that.
                Ah yes, but the yanks don't get the same shade of green paint that the Brits get

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by easyrider View Post
                  £1 billion for just 14 helicopters! Bloody expensive! US Army gets them much cheaper than that.
                  how much does the US Army get them for?
                  RGJ

                  ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                  The Rifles

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by easyrider View Post
                    £1 billion for just 14 helicopters! Bloody expensive! US Army gets them much cheaper than that.
                    Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                    how much does the US Army get them for?
                    Well that is US$ 1.64 billion for 14 aircraft (0.12 billion each)

                    In 2009, Canada got 15 for US$ 1.15 billion (0.08 billion each)


                    Source: http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ch47d/news/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      Well that is US$ 1.64 billion for 14 aircraft (0.12 billion each)

                      In 2009, Canada got 15 for US$ 1.15 billion (0.08 billion each)


                      Source: http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ch47d/news/
                      i'm reading the small print and i can't see where the Canadian deal included "development, manufacture, and the first five years of support for the new Chinooks" and besides, we have the latest Mk6 variant:

                      "The CH-47 Mk-6 Chinook has a new, machined monolithic airframe with UK-specific avionics, forward-looking infrared radar, a rescue hoist, aircraft defensive systems, and interoperable communication and navigation equipment."

                      http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1891

                      add 2 years inflation on top of that and we seem to be getting a fair deal for the very latest aircraft with 5 years support from Boeing.
                      RGJ

                      ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                      The Rifles

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                        i'm reading the small print and i can't see where the Canadian deal included "development, manufacture, and the first five years of support for the new Chinooks" and besides, we have the latest Mk6 variant:

                        "The CH-47 Mk-6 Chinook has a new, machined monolithic airframe with UK-specific avionics, forward-looking infrared radar, a rescue hoist, aircraft defensive systems, and interoperable communication and navigation equipment."

                        http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1891

                        add 2 years inflation on top of that and we seem to be getting a fair deal for the very latest aircraft with 5 years support from Boeing.
                        In fairness it doesn't but the UK-specific avonics was where they went wrong in the past!
                        Last edited by DeV; 24 August 2011, 12:13.

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