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British Army replacing SUSAT with ELCAN LDS

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  • British Army replacing SUSAT with ELCAN LDS

    This footage shows members of 4 Rifles conducting individual fire and manoeuvre exercises as well as static firing from trenches and cover as part of their initial training leading up to deployment to Theatre. The sights being used on top of their SA80 A2 rifles are the new Lightweight Day Sight (LDS -- a x4 optical sight) and Close Quarter Battlesight (CQB -- a x1 "red dot" sight), part of the equipment suite being delivered by the Future Integrated Soldier Technology (FIST) programme in UK MoD.



    The LDS offers the User much greater eye relief, and therefore situational awareness, in comparison to the old SUSAT daysight, as well as being lighter and providing a clearer targeting reticule. The CQB mounted on top of the LDS provides the User with a much quicker and more accurate means of engaging targets at shorter ranges.

    nice to see the RIFLES leading the way, again
    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 15 July 2011, 00:02.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  • #2
    Why is the cocking handle on the wrong side of the rifle?
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Seanachie View Post
      Why is the cocking handle on the wrong side of the rifle?
      it's only on the wrong side of the rifle if you are left handed.
      RGJ

      ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

      The Rifles

      Comment


      • #4
        it's only on the wrong side of the rifle if you are left handed
        .


        As is the ejection port!

        But seriously a right handed guy still has to reach over the body of the weapon to cock it if his right hand is going to be suporting the weapon by the pistol grip.

        Bit tricky to do anything else given that in a bull pup the point of balance is at the pistol grip.

        In the event of firing in the prone position the operator must obscure his own view with his left had to charge the rifle....dosen't make sense.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
          it's only on the wrong side of the rifle if you are left handed.
          Um,not wanting to start another" my rifle is better than yours" debate but if you are a right handed firer it is more ergonomic to have the cocking handle on the left side of the rifle.FN,SLR,Steyr for example.
          To cock the L85A2 you have to turn the weapon over.Not very ergonomic.I suppose you get used to it after a while.But to those of us used to having the cocking handle on the left it would seem strange.
          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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          • #6
            The only conceivable reason that I can think of for having the handle on that side is for shooting around an obstruction. For a right handed firer, they can get good and close to the cover while still being able to manipulate the charging handle. The AK has it on that side also, but doesn't that have a reciprocating charging handle?

            Looks as awkward as hell though.

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            • #7
              Amazing how the world has coped with the AK47 and all it's many subtypes having the cocking handle and safety catch on the right-hand side. The soldier just makes it work and it become second nature. After all, we coped with the Bren for years, didn't we?
              regards
              GttC

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Seanachie View Post
                In the event of firing in the prone position the operator must obscure his own view with his left had to charge the rifle....dosen't make sense.
                simples - you just tilt the weapon to the left, no views are obscured.

                it's second nature to us as i have been doing it for decades, just like the Steyr feels alien to me now - being able to switch from right to left etc. like the Steyr is better but as GTTC said - we make it work.

                the new 'gangsta-grip' with bipod is a welcome new addition though.
                Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 18 July 2011, 20:51.
                RGJ

                ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                The Rifles

                Comment


                • #9
                  It may be the wrong side to us but to the BA lads, the cocking handle on the right is perfectly natural to them.

                  After how many conflicts now they still haven't changed it, so obviously it mustn't cause any major snags for them.

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                  • #10
                    The soldier just makes it work and it become second nature. After all, we coped with the Bren for years, didn't we?

                    But you cocked it with your right hand while the weapon was held against the body with the left hand.

                    My father was left handed and fired the .303 right handed, cocked it with his left....he had mention that he obscured his own sights on the rapid practise. Made me think of what happens with the SA80.. the weapon has to be moved from the target.

                    Deliberate for the firing from cover or an after thought never to be rectified?

                    the new 'gangsta-grip' with bipod is a welcome new addition though
                    Is that the new vertical foregrip ? Looks very handy...bit like the steyr,

                    Funny how its taken the SA 80 nearly thirty years to evolve into something approaching useful...when you could have had the Steyr off the shelf for less money in the same time frame.

                    I don't doubt that the SA80 has evolved but I wonder what its replacement will be or will they just rework it?
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • #11
                      The cocking-handle thing is no big deal. I carried an SLR from 1972 until we got the SA80 in 1986 at Warminster. I think I had about 2hrs conversion training on it and off I went, within a couple of hours I'd gotten the hang of it and after a few Range days and exercises the SLR was forgotten. As RGJ says, you soon get the hang of tilting the thing and let's face it, you can't maintain a good sight-picture while cocking the weapon at the same time anyway, whatever the weapon. You're better off with both eyes open at that time anyway I'd suggest?
                      The new sight looks good and let's face it, SUSAT was overdue for retirement, it wasn't much different from the SUIT (Sight Unit, Infantry,Trilux) which we got in the early 70's so it's hardy surprising it's getting a bit long in the tooth by now. I also notice that the Individual Battle Shooting Ranges appear to have had a make-over, and not before time I reckon. A little more realistic and relevant I think.
                      Anyway, good luck to 4Rifles (the old 3RGJ) on their forthcoming tour in Afghan.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hello Alaska View Post
                        It may be the wrong side to us but to the BA lads, the cocking handle on the right is perfectly natural to them.

                        After how many conflicts now they still haven't changed it, so obviously it mustn't cause any major snags for them.
                        in all fairness though - i would not like to be left handed using the A2.
                        RGJ

                        ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                        The Rifles

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                        • #13
                          This was first announced last January, it's taken a fair amount of time to start issuing them.
                          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                          • #14
                            4RIFLES have had them since February / March, just hadn't got any video footage of it until now.
                            RGJ

                            ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                            The Rifles

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That's still over a year. I would have thought that some would have shown up in pics & footage before now.
                              "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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