Columb Barracks closing?

[REX]

Accomodation is hardly a strategic reason, is it?

It is when, due to previous bk closures, there are no other bks with the ability to accept over 300 troops for the likes of overseas training. This was the very reason that approx 60% of the Accomd blocks were renovated in the last couple of years

[gibedepusib0ss]

How many batteries and guns are in Columb?

[REX]

yes but surely the troops / units will just relocate?

Easily said from a country that provides military living in lines for Married as well as single personnell. Over here lads will have to look at the requirement for a second car, an expense best avoided if possible, or it's time to sell up and move, not possible if selling up means you have to pay off a mortgage in serious negative equity

[REX]

how many batteries and guns are in columb?

opsec

[REX]

In reply to a query to his press spokesman, Minister for Defence Alan Shatter said: “As of now, no decision has been made [B]by the Government[/B] in relation to the future of any particular military installation.”

This is the important part of this statement, it leaves it open for him to say the Army decided

[Archimedes]

How many batteries and guns are in Columb?

How many Columbs in a battery?

[gibedepusib0ss]

How many Columbs in a battery?

hiyoooooooooo

[Goldie fish]

Easily said from a country that provides military living in lines for Married as well as single personnell. Over here lads will have to look at the requirement for a second car, an expense best avoided if possible, or it's time to sell up and move, not possible if selling up means you have to pay off a mortgage in serious negative equity

Longford.
Rockhill.
Lifford.
Monaghan.

All faced the same issue, however, from the outset, it is accepted that as a member of the defence forces you will be posted wherever the CoS sees fit, not where you have your roots.
There are people from Limerick Commuting to Clonmel, and neither barracks has closed yet.
I understand mil transport was provided for those in Longford to reach their new HQ.
Likewise, years before, those in Fermoy, Ballincollig and Kildare were inconvenienced by closures, but they went ahead anyway.

50 km is considered an acceptable distance to reassign anyone within the public sector by the way.

[apod]

GoC west announced the imminent closure of Columb Bks on Monday.I believe the lads were told it would close before Christmas.
He was in Cavan yesterday.Wait out.
I believe Clonmel is going to get the nod also.

[Bravo20]

Also heard Kilkenny, Cavan and Gormanston

[The Prisoner]

Too lazy to find an earlier post of mine. A number of months ago this was the intitial plan (a very good source):

East
McKee
Kilbride
Dundalk/Redbarn or Gormo

West
Finner
Athlone
Carnagh

South
Cork
Limerick
Kilworth

DFTC & Glen

Everything else to go. That was based on a 3 Bde structure. It has now moved on to giving serious consideration to a 2 Bde structure.

Cavan - another Gov. Dept has their eye on it. Clue: cheaper than building in N. Co. Dublin.

USAC - again someone has their eye on it.

I asked the question about accommadation for RDF FTT. Answer: not yet considered ie not on the radar.

[morpheus]

Gormo always gets mentioned

it wont be closed

one of the very few decent ranges around plus it allows for air to ground and ground to air firing.

the base itself is heavily used for training both recruits ex's and RDFers.

there are "certain" units based there from time to time

used for public order training

IAA use the hangers for aircraft investigations

[Kieran Marum]

DAIL adjurnment debate 21/09/2011

Army Barracks
Wednesday, 21 September 2011
________________________________________
Deputy Robert Troy: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this item for topical debate today. It is the most topical and talked about issue in my constituency since senior Army personnel visited Columb Barracks on Monday and dropped a bombshell with the news that our barracks is to close in early December. I was surprised that my constituency colleague, Deputy James Bannon, yesterday withdrew his parliamentary questions to the Minister for Defence, Deputy Alan Shatter. Might this indicate the barracks is indeed to close in December? Was the Deputy embarrassed by the reply of the Minister?

This is not my first time to raise the issue. I raised it directly with the Minister on 24 May, at which stage I was accused of scaremongering by members of the Government parties. At the time I invited the Minister to visit the Army barracks to see the facilities at first hand and the good work Army personnel are carrying out. That invitation stands, to the Minister of State, Deputy Paul Kehoe, and to the Minister, Deputy Alan Shatter. The previous three Ministers for Defence, the former Deputy, Tony Killeen, and Deputies Willie O’Dea and Brendan Smith, visited the barracks and gave commitments regarding its future.

The people of Mullingar are anxious and worried and want the Government to be upfront and honest with them. Last night Rebecca O’Callaghan started a Facebook campaign to keep Columb Barracks open. Within one hour more than 1,000 people had signed it and today in excess of 2,000 had joined. If the Minister of State looks at the page he will see clearly the level of feelings expressed.

The Army barracks can trace its history back almost 200 years when it was purchased by the British War Department. Today it is the home of the fourth field artillery regiment and also acts as a headquarters of the Reserve Defence Force and the 54th regiment. The driving range is used by members of An Garda Síochána. Columb Barracks is the last remaining artillery barracks in Ireland and, given its location in the geographical centre of the country, is of strategic importance. It acts as a staging post for all our overseas and UN-based operations. More than 200 serving personnel are based in the barracks along with more than 20 highly skilled civilian staff. Currently a large number of personnel from the barracks are representing their country in Lebanon. It is bad to think that when these men and women are doing their work abroad, this Government is threatening to close their home.

These men and women continue to display the fine tradition of overseas peacekeeping work. We are very proud of our Army personnel, from both Columb Barracks, Mullingar and Custume Barracks, Athlone. There are also two active groups in Mullingar which represent retired soldiers and are doing great community work. Many serving members of the Defence Forces are heavily involved within the community. Only recently they organised a sponsored climb of Croagh Patrick for Living Links, in which I took part.

The income generated from pay, pensions and ancillary purchases is worth in the region of €8 million to the local economy. To close this barracks, with the withdrawal of this level of revenue from the local economy, would be devastating to many families and to small businesses and their staff who are fighting a hard battle to stay afloat with no support from this Government. This is not an issue for the EU-IMF as there is no financial gain to be made in closing this barracks, a point well articulated by my constituency colleague and Cabinet member, the Minister of State, Willie Penrose, in The Irish Times today and in local media, the Westmeath Topic and Midlands Radio 3. Army personnel will be paid relocation fees and there will be capital costs to extend further barracks to accommodate additional personnel. We will be unable to sell the barracks so any possible gain would be outweighed.

I know that the Minister of State, Deputy Penrose, will raise this issue at Cabinet as he has always been supportive of the barracks. I hope the Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, will listen to him and to what the people of Mullingar have to say. I finish with the words of Deputy Penrose, spoken before he became a Minister of State. In May 2009 he stated: “We will not allow the barracks to close in any term, whether short, medium or long”.

Deputy Minister of State at the Department of Defence ( Paul Kehoe: I can confirm to Deputy Troy that as of now no decision has been made by the Government in regard to the future of Columb Barracks, Mullingar, or any other military installation in the country. However various commissions, reports and studies dating back to the 1990s identified barrack closures as a fundamental requirement towards improving military effectiveness and efficiency. Since then there have been a number of consolidation programmes which have seen the number of barracks occupied by the Permanent Defence Force reduced from 34 to 23.

Notwithstanding the progress made to date, the dispersal of Defence Forces personnel over an extended number of locations continues to be a major impediment to essential collective training and to releasing personnel for operational duties. As is the case with all Departments, the Department of Defence has been actively reviewing all areas of expenditure for which it is responsible to ensure the maximum benefit in the public interest from the use of its resources. This is a key element in the context of the comprehensive review of expenditure in which the Government is engaged. My Department has submitted its report as part of that process. This report sets out in clear terms the options available to Government with regard to defence funding. The outcome of the comprehensive review of expenditure will determine the future resource envelope available for defence.

I wish to ensure that all decisions made and resources utilised are focused on maximising the capabilities of the Defence Forces and ensuring their continued operational excellence. I am also anxious to ensure, in so far as is possible, that the Government is not compelled by fiscal and budgetary constraints to effect any substantial reduction in the current number of personnel in the Defence Forces. In the circumstances, I cannot give any specific commitment that there will not be further programmes of barracks consolidation.

Deputy Robert Troy: It is absolute waffle to state that, as of now, the Government cannot give any commitment. Where is the openness, honesty and transparency the Government promised the people? The people of Mullingar have been out of their minds with worry for the past two nights. Senior Army personnel visited this barracks on Monday and told people it would be closing in December. Who is fooling whom? We want and need answers.

The Minister of State noted that his Department has submitted its report as part of the process. Is Columb Barracks, Mullingar, included in the report? The Minister of State must be honest with the people and let them know where they stand. He should not hide behind the phrase “as of now”. We do not want that. We want to know exactly what is happening. People’s livelihoods are at stake here. People who are settled and living in Mullingar do not know where to send their children but must think about relocating and what the future holds for them. Let us be honest. The Minister of State must come up front and tell the truth.

Deputy Paul Kehoe: I thank Deputy Troy. As I outlined in my reply, I sit at the Cabinet table. I can confirm that the Cabinet has not made a decision-----

Deputy Robert Troy: As of now.

Deputy Paul Kehoe: -----on this or any other issue relating to the Defence Forces. It is great that members of senior management have visited Columb Barracks in Mullingar. It is their job to do so. I do not doubt that senior personnel within the Defence Forces visit the barracks on a regular basis because they have a responsibility to do so in other to observe what is happening there. They do not inform those at the barracks on a regular basis that it is going to be closed. Those responsible for making decisions in respect of matters such as this are the Minister for Defence and the Government. The Deputy’s efforts to pre-empt a decision which has been neither discussed nor made by the Cabinet amount to scaremongering.

Deputy Robert Troy: I did not pre-empt anything. I asked the Minister of State to come clean and be honest.

Deputy Paul Kehoe: As is the case with all other Departments, a review of expenditure is taking place in the Department of Defence. This matter has not come before the Cabinet. When a decision is made in respect of this or any other issue relating to the Defence Forces, I have no doubt the Deputy will be made aware of it and that information on why certain choices were made will be provided. I assure him that, as matters stand, a decision has not been made in respect of the closure of any barracks in the country.

Deputy Robert Troy: When will it be made?

Deputy Paul Kehoe: The Deputy will be given plenty of notice prior to a decision being made.

Deputy Robert Troy: The people of Mullingar want to know now.

Deputy Paul Kehoe: Attempts should not be made to pre-empt Cabinet decisions. If the Deputy speaks to senior members of his party who served in government, I am sure they will provide him with information on what happens at Cabinet and on how decisions are made.

[hptmurphy]

ast
McKee
Kilbride
Dundalk/Redbarn or Gormo

West
Finner
Athlone
Carnagh

South
Cork
Limerick
Kilworth

DFTC & Glen

Very Intertesting list and makes a lot of sense.

Fly in the ointment being I don't see both Kilkenny and Clonmel going.

Either or with Kilkenny having the better chance of survival as they have a very prominent minister based locally, Phil Hogan...that certainly makes the difference,

Other point about Kilkenny apart from the Hospital there is nothing else there job wise. Its a service industry based town/city.The economic reprocussion would be huge and will be a major factor in the decision

[trellheim]

This probably means the approved CSR defence bit went up for discussion.