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kaiser
28th April 2012, 09:59
has anyone heared about a new medal coming on issue next yr to the df ?
it is apparently for the 100 year anniversary of the irish volunteers?

or is it the rumour machine again?

Rhodes
28th April 2012, 10:20
has anyone heared about a new medal coming on issue next yr to the df ?
it is apparently for the 100 year anniversary of the irish volunteers?

or is it the rumour machine again?

Someone made a proposal to the Government that a commemoration medal be issued to mark the centenary of the Irish Volunteers but it hasn't been confirmed if they will do it or not.
Seems a bit silly to me. Medals should be earned and not handed out for anniversaries.

Celtic-Warrior
28th April 2012, 10:24
I heard that from a few people

kaiser
28th April 2012, 11:15
Someone made a proposal to the Government that a commemoration medal be issued to mark the centenary of the Irish Volunteers but it hasn't been confirmed if they will do it or not.
Seems a bit silly to me. Medals should be earned and not handed out for anniversaries.


i agree they should be earned..

apod
28th April 2012, 11:35
Heard the same form the lads in the clothing stores.They deal with the DF clothing procurement guys who buy the medals.Supposed to be going ahead but who knows.Would be nice to mark our centenary.

Tango_Charlie
28th April 2012, 12:05
Medals should be earned and not handed out for anniversaries.

+1

kaiser
28th April 2012, 12:24
will it be a case of time will tell or does any no the score??

popeye
28th April 2012, 17:21
I hear it will only be issued to the PDF which is ironic really.

Tango_Charlie
28th April 2012, 19:38
In the time i have been in the army I have personally witnessed and heard stories of acts and deeds, carried out by Irish defence forces personnel going above and beyond the call of duty at home and overseas that warranted official recognition and acknowledgement, but none was forthcoming in most instances. True bravery and fortitude displayed when others would have crumbled.

On the flipside I've seen persons awarded DSM's and made honorary member of the legion of whatever all for simply doing the job which they were already being quite handsomely paid to do.

And now somebody with feck all else to do wants to hand out medals for nothing? The occasion should be marked and celebrated most definitely, but a medal for nothing? Stupid!!!!

thedollar
28th April 2012, 20:15
I hear it will only be issued to the PDF which is ironic really.

Very small minded and thoughtless of the contribution of serving RDF members who volunteer to parade and train without being paid for most of their efforts.

Rhodes
28th April 2012, 20:32
Very small minded and thoughtless of the contribution of serving RDF members who volunteer to parade and train without being paid for most of their efforts.

RDF already have a service medal for such.

thedollar
28th April 2012, 21:24
RDF already have a service medal for such.

Meant if they do go ahead with striking a commemorative medal only for PDF.

But I agree with you, medals should be earned not handed out.

northie
28th April 2012, 22:02
Meant if they do go ahead with striking a commemorative medal only for PDF.

But I agree with you, medals should be earned not handed out.

The striking of medals for anniversaries (for mass issue) is quite prevalent in the armed forces of monarchies, I expect RGJ will be due one for the queens jubilee.

thedollar
28th April 2012, 22:24
Where did the suggestion to strike this medal come from? Was it DFHQ or did one of the Representative Associations request it?

HavocIRL
28th April 2012, 23:21
In the time i have been in the army I have personally witnessed and heard stories of acts and deeds, carried out by Irish defence forces personnel going above and beyond the call of duty at home and overseas that warranted official recognition and acknowledgement, but none was forthcoming in most instances. True bravery and fortitude displayed when others would have crumbled.

On the flipside I've seen persons awarded DSM's and made honorary member of the legion of whatever all for simply doing the job which they were already being quite handsomely paid to do.

And now somebody with feck all else to do wants to hand out medals for nothing? The occasion should be marked and celebrated most definitely, but a medal for nothing? Stupid!!!!

I know a guy who was given a medal for gallantry from another nation for his actions overseas, wasn't even given a good report from the irish army for it. Naturally because its a medal from another countries armed forces he's not allowed to wear it.

Ridiculous. If it was a general who was given it you could guarantee he'd be wearing it.

kaiser
29th April 2012, 02:49
I hear it will only be issued to the PDF which is ironic really.


were did you hear that?? and why ironic???

goc132
29th April 2012, 07:38
Several Members of the Defenc Forces have been awarded the NATO Meritorious Service Medal MSM in the last two years i Officer and 2 NCO's.
The dilemma for the Irsih Defence Forces is that the BMC (MMG) and the BSD (DSM) are the only two awards that can be issued for acts of heroism,Meritorious service,for leaders ship or for highlighting the profile of the Defence Forces in other ways.
Most Armies all over the world have several awards that can cover all aspects of recognising acts therefore allowing the award of such medals.
The fact that the Defence Force have only two such awards leave the bar too high and thus members of the DF are not put forward for awards. The New Zeland Defence Forces is a good example and it is basically the same size as our own DF.
I relation to the topic in this section most countries record silver,golden,diamond Jubilee medals as did the Garda in this country in 1972 (Jubilee Medal) and in 2000 (Millennium Medal) ,

danno
29th April 2012, 09:05
Whats the worst dilemma,getting an undeserved merit medal or everybody getting one regardless.

FoxtrotRK
29th April 2012, 09:42
were did you hear that?? and why ironic???

Well, the Volunteers were part-time soldiers who served in a voluntary basis, with wildly varying standards of training and equipment, and with often no more than token units in rural locations.

Docman
29th April 2012, 11:49
were did you hear that?? and why ironic???

Probably ironic in the fact that the Irish Volunteers were a part-time force who suffered from equipment shortages, lack of uniforms. The Irish Volunteers and sucessors fought a full time force and didn't become full time itself until 1921.

timhorgan
29th April 2012, 13:56
danno;369217]Whats the worst dilemma,getting an undeserved merit medal or everybody getting one regardless.[/QUOTE]


To my mind the situation can only create huge embarrassment. Let me give you an example.

If you had a Millenium Medal say and then a Jubilee Medal or whatever, and, being perfectly entitled to them but if you had no medals for operational service in a combat zone during that time period would you not feel a little sheepish on parade. This is a serious question,

Long Service, Good Conduct etc. by all means but let us not devalue the concept.

goc132
29th April 2012, 15:37
does anyone on this board think the British devalue the awarding of medals look up their site before you answer

Truck Driver
29th April 2012, 16:46
RDF already have a service medal for such.

Errr, the PDF also have a Service Medal....

kaiser
29th April 2012, 17:29
i wonder how many they will make? if they are making them!!
how many troops in the rdf would be able to get one??
also where does it stop would there be one for the centenary of 1916

thedollar
29th April 2012, 18:20
i wonder how many they will make? if they are making them!!
how many troops in the rdf would be able to get one??
also where does it stop would there be one for the centenary of 1916

And you also have the anniversary of start of the War of Independance, the establishment of the Free State, the establishment National Army?

Is there really any point in medals commemorating an anniversary of an historical event?

RoyalGreenJacket
29th April 2012, 19:03
If you had a Millenium Medal say and then a Jubilee Medal or whatever, and, being perfectly entitled to them but if you had no medals for operational service in a combat zone during that time period would you not feel a little sheepish on parade. This is a serious question,

Long Service, Good Conduct etc. by all means but let us not devalue the concept.

the award of such particular medals has nothing to do with service in a 'combat zone' - everybody knows exactly what they are for and as such nobody would think any less of those wearing them - however most lads with required service for such medals will surely have qualified for operational service in a combat zone somewhere along the line - so they've done their bit and fair play to them.

medals awarded for someone elses special occasion / anniversary don't really carry much weight and we consider those 'gizzits', but they do recognise service and and to that end i think any medal seen fit to be awarded deserves respect.

medals are awarded for a reason and if a medal is struck for the anniversary of the 'Irish Volunteers' then wear it with pride.

Rhodes
29th April 2012, 19:15
Errr, the PDF also have a Service Medal....

No Shit, Sherlock.

goc132
29th April 2012, 20:37
Well said Royal Green Jacket

Socrates
29th April 2012, 21:15
I'm new to this forum so go easy on me lads haha

I hope this does actually happen and while I do agree that medals should be earned, but this is clearly a special case so why not mass issue this medal??, It didn't do the Gardaí any harm after all!!

I don't see why the RDF shouldn't be issued this medal also (The FCA stand down medal in 2005 didn't cause much of a fuss and can be seen as a precedent for this situation), one way it could be issued is that an eligibility requirement should be at least 2 years prior service for this medal or something like that??,

The problem In my opinion is that The Defense Forces as a whole lacks a dedicated system for awarding medals, all there is really is the MMG, Service medals and Overseas Tour Medals. The Defense Forces would benefit greatly if they introduced for example their own version of the Purple Heart and say award the MMG for lesser acts of Valor and create (along with a whole range of new medals) a purpose made highest military honor (equivalent to the U.S Medal of Honor and Victoria Cross) that all members are eligible for and can strive to achieve.

Centurion
3rd May 2012, 18:54
If may be permitted to go off on a slight tangent concerning the possible issue of the 'Volunteer Medal'. Quite apart from properly marking an important historical event, there is a need to reclaim ownership of the title 'Irish Volunteers'. Every one of us who serves, or who has served, whether regular or reservist, did so as a member of 'Oglaigh na hEireann' - The Irish Volunteers. We need only look at our tunic buttons to be reminded of this. Unfortunately, over the years, that title has been usurped by individuals and organisations whose aims are contrary to the constituition which every member of the Defence Forces swears to uphold. I doubt if there are any of us who would not be happy to see the DF taking the high ground and reminding the Irish public that the Defence Forces are the only body which can legitimately claim to be the successors to the Irish Volunteers of 1916 and to use that title.

"It shall be lawful for the Government to raise, train, equip, arm, pay and maintain defence forces to be called and known as Óglaigh na hÉireann or (in English) the Defence Forces".

S.16 Defence Act 1954

Truck Driver
4th May 2012, 03:29
No Shit, Sherlock.

Ah, it speaks.... :eek:

Truck Driver
4th May 2012, 03:33
I'm new to this forum so go easy on me lads haha

I hope this does actually happen and while I do agree that medals should be earned, but this is clearly a special case so why not mass issue this medal??, It didn't do the Gardaí any harm after all!!

I don't see why the RDF shouldn't be issued this medal also (The FCA stand down medal in 2005 didn't cause much of a fuss and can be seen as a precedent for this situation), one way it could be issued is that an eligibility requirement should be at least 2 years prior service for this medal or something like that??,

The problem In my opinion is that The Defense Forces as a whole lacks a dedicated system for awarding medals, all there is really is the MMG, Service medals and Overseas Tour Medals. The Defense Forces would benefit greatly if they introduced for example their own version of the Purple Heart and say award the MMG for lesser acts of Valor and create (along with a whole range of new medals) a purpose made highest military honor (equivalent to the U.S Medal of Honor and Victoria Cross) that all members are eligible for and can strive to achieve.

Welcome Socrates... on the two highlighted points above...


The FCA Stand Down medal never happened, although the idea was floated

Also the DSM...

Socrates
14th May 2012, 17:47
Oh, my mistake lads, sorry about that.

Connaught Stranger
28th May 2012, 17:41
Probably ironic in the fact that the Irish Volunteers were a part-time force who suffered from equipment shortages, lack of uniforms. The Irish Volunteers and sucessors fought a full time force and didn't become full time itself until 1921.

Even more ironic that many of them (I.V.F.) marched off to join the British Army and fight in WW1.

Connaught Stranger

Socrates
6th June 2012, 20:37
Anybody hear any new developments on this since this thread was started??

kaiser
6th June 2012, 21:27
i havint but will put out the feelers in work

Connaught Stranger
14th June 2012, 11:07
The history of medal issues for the P.D.F. Other Ranks is dismal, remember the "The Good Conduct Medal" aka "The Hangman's Medal." debacle.

FMolloy
14th June 2012, 11:23
In relation to the topic in this section most countries record silver,golden,diamond Jubilee medals as did the Garda in this country in 1972 (Jubilee Medal) and in 2000 (Millennium Medal)

I can count the number of Gardaí I've seen wear either medal on the fingers of one hand. I don't see much point in issuing a medal that's going to end up in a drawer somewhere.

morpheus
14th June 2012, 12:06
probably because in ireland the wearing of medals is not something that is commonly done / recognised by most people. there seems to be a cultural mentality (outside of the DF at least) of not really showing things like this off maybe?

Connaught Stranger
14th June 2012, 16:19
probably because in ireland the wearing of medals is not something that is commonly done / recognised by most people. there seems to be a cultural mentality (outside of the DF at least) of not really showing things like this off maybe?

Then the only way to change it, is to start issuing some more medals, insignia, push the wearing of ribbon bars by not only the military but Police etc..etc.

The issuing of new medals has always been on left on the back burner, particularly by the bean-counters in the DoD or Department of Finance. they seem to run on the "well they got along fine without them before now" mentality.

My own gripe is the lack of any commemorative medal for those who put years in on the border, but being an old 28th Bn hand maybe I am biased. :tongue:

Connaught Stranger.

Socrates
14th June 2012, 17:06
there does seem to be a perception alright that DF Command or DoD are unwilling or scared to issue medals, any word on this one??

Jungle
14th June 2012, 17:34
My own gripe is the lack of any commemorative medal for those who put years in on the border, but being an old 28th Bn hand maybe I am biased. :tongue:

Connaught Stranger.

If you don't mind me getting involved here; we do not get medals for domestic ops either. I know there are historical precedents, like the North-West rebellion and the Fenian raids, but it has not been done in a very long time, including the Oka Crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Crisis).

Hello Alaska
14th June 2012, 17:36
there does seem to be a perception alright that DF Command or DoD are unwilling or scared to issue medals, any word on this one??

Not so much scared or unwilling, they just don't really give a bollocks.

It's ok though, instead, they focus on other important stuff like making sure all our uniform is plastered in "Defence Forces Ireland" or new Arms Drill.

FMolloy
14th June 2012, 17:48
probably because in ireland the wearing of medals is not something that is commonly done / recognised by most people. there seems to be a cultural mentality (outside of the DF at least) of not really showing things like this off maybe?

There's no issue with Gardaí wearing medals for overseas service, including those earned with the PDF, or the Scott medal. I've seen members of the DFB wear UN medals too.

Docman
14th June 2012, 17:52
But the opposite side of the coin is the criticism of the US Army for their issuing of medals for just about anything. They caused major controversy in Grenada when everyone and their auntie got medals galore, even combat medals. The sheer volume of Purple Hearts issued for a "Police Action" was scary.

It does mean that each and every Irish medal earned is earned.

hedgehog
14th June 2012, 19:31
Its not a makey up medal

its a medal issued to commenerate an important part of our National and Military history- therefore wear it with pride.

I think the RDF should also get it in that they have volunteered to serve as well.

There has to be a cut off point and I dont think the likes of exers like me should receive it- it will cost me a forturne to remount my medals

goc132
14th June 2012, 21:48
Lots op people think the US forces get too many medals and I suppose there are some that could be one with out but in the Irish Defence Forces they are slow to issue medals.

The UK Forces have an "Accumulative Service Medal" which is issued after 18 months over seas afaik and its in Sterling Silver.
The Good Conduct Medal should be re introduced but with a proper criteria and on issue to all members of the DF when they retire with a Clean record either RDF/PDF.

mercurydoc
14th June 2012, 22:33
this is a big thing with the PDF Cadre, jaysus our lad is a savage soldier he has this course, that course, he topped this and that.........it's his ****ing job! whilst i do respect them thats what they signed to do.


christ it's only a medal.

danno
14th June 2012, 22:54
A pay/pension rise might be a better way of displaying appreciation.

Buck
14th June 2012, 23:06
A pay/pension rise might be a better way of displaying appreciation.

Two chances of that! No hope and Bob Hope...Bob hope is dead.

jack nastyface
15th June 2012, 01:18
http://youtu.be/8qkSe4YM7EY

Socrates
15th June 2012, 02:26
True that!haha, or how they insist that the most ridiclious things are in Irish DPM, I like the american system for awarding medals, especially the Purple Heart, the medal rack is something to take pride in, it should be the case here aswell.

Socrates
3rd July 2012, 17:19
From the RDFRA Facebook page:

" RDFRA has been informed that it's submission to have all serving members of the Reserve Defence Forces issued with this medal on the centenary of the anniversary has been accepted. More information will be posted as soon as it is known."


Looks like it's for real.

Sluggie
22nd July 2012, 15:26
From the RDFRA Facebook page:

" RDFRA has been informed that it's submission to have all serving members of the Reserve Defence Forces issued with this medal on the centenary of the anniversary has been accepted. More information will be posted as soon as it is known."

Looks like it's for real.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/04/18/00725.asp

This is from Alan Shatter in April. Sorry if it has been posted before.

The medal remains a proposal at this time it appears. RDFRA seem to be indicating that the RDF are included in the proposal.

Bravo20
22nd July 2012, 20:09
Well he is using phrases like "all serving members of the defence forces" that usually means they will include the RDF in the proposal (though I would note that he hasn't made a decision yet)

BANDIT
23rd July 2012, 01:47
Medals ,, not now of all times ,, wait until there is a bit of a war or mission or something .. hand out St Christopher medals , more use if u believe in taht sort of thing ..

apod
23rd July 2012, 11:21
Medals ,, not now of all times ,, wait until there is a bit of a war or mission or something .. hand out St Christopher medals , more use if u believe in taht sort of thing ..
Give the trolling a rest will ya?

hedgehog
23rd July 2012, 12:08
Well done on the medal, I heard that the RDF will also get it, i must buy shares in the company that makes the two ribbon holders

goc132
23rd July 2012, 13:03
There are anniversaries in all countries that award medals to record history not just in books.

Socrates
23rd July 2012, 21:20
According to the RDFRA reservists will be getting it. From a collectors Facebook page



" I've heard the lads talking about it & they have also seen the medal design but most are not happy with the bar & the way in which it is going to be mounted. I have not seen it yet myself."

Truck Driver
23rd July 2012, 23:58
Well he is using phrases like "all serving members of the defence forces" that usually means they will include the RDF in the proposal (though I would note that he hasn't made a decision yet)

I do believe that when the phrase "serving members of the defence forces" was used in a different context before, the then serving CoS (beloved of Hedgie)
clarified that this does include the RDF

Law of the sea
24th July 2012, 00:24
''RDFRA has been informed that it's submission to have all serving members of the Reserve Defence Forces issued with this medal on the centenary of the anniversary has been accepted.''

Fairly unambiguous above. Will ye and others in the Defence Forces be happy to wear such a medal?

Goldie fish
24th July 2012, 00:28
the submission has been accepted is a bit like saying we posted a strongly worded letter. Next someone must read it, and then, even more unlikely, act on its contents.

DeV
24th July 2012, 06:53
DF includes RDF when it's suits.

morpheus
24th July 2012, 09:25
Why wouldnt we be happy to wear a commemoration medal? were on completely the other scale to some armies as regards medal issuance - US army is like the scouts with merit badges. Youd swear the DF couldnt afford to make medals or something here but at the same time, it means there is more significance attached to medals when they are issued and rightly so. just my opinion.

DeV
24th July 2012, 13:40
Or our nearest neighbours that issued a medal for their bosses' official birthday!

hptmurphy
24th July 2012, 15:04
My own gripe is the lack of any commemorative medal for those who put years in on the border, but being an old 28th Bn hand maybe I am biased

didn't ye get an allowance and still get it..a medal as well greedy gits!!!:-D

Medals for being in the army at the time of an anniversary is ridiculous.

Awards for service..ok.......god conduct....yep that was fine by me, deeds of bravery....fine....for COS turning up to work...no fcuking way...

Anniversarys......just wrong. if thats the case I want a medal for surving twnty odd years of marriage !

morpheus
24th July 2012, 15:09
whats good conduct entail and do we have a medal for that? cos im always really good. im a nice decent bloke, i even polish my boots. thats good conduct too!

BANDIT
24th July 2012, 15:32
wll said HT, Israelis dont seem to give out many medals .North Koreans do .. There was a time when the DF gave out very few medals, A DSM ws something now it seems to be given out for good service it has lost some of its value..

Socrates
24th July 2012, 15:52
wll said HT, Israelis dont seem to give out many medals .North Koreans do .. There was a time when the DF gave out very few medals, A DSM ws something now it seems to be given out for good service it has lost some of its value..

The DF still give out very few medals, Aside from Service medals (DSM Included), the odd MMG or MS and overseas deployment medals, frankly they don't give out many other medals because they more or less don't have any other medals

Goldie fish
24th July 2012, 17:35
whats good conduct entail and do we have a medal for that? cos im always really good. im a nice decent bloke, i even polish my boots. thats good conduct too!

Good conduct is gone a few years. Many referred to it as the "never got caught".

ollie
24th July 2012, 19:03
Awards for service..ok

Anniversarys......just wrong. if thats the case I want a medal for surving twnty odd years of marriage !


She hasnt killed you yet, is that not enough of a medal for ya ?

So if this medal is going to be issued to all, what about ex members who in many cases, gave decades of service ?

Connaught Stranger
24th July 2012, 19:07
didn't ye get an allowance and still get it..a medal as well greedy gits!!!:-D

Medals for being in the army at the time of an anniversary is ridiculous.

Awards for service..ok.......god conduct....yep that was fine by me, deeds of bravery....fine....for COS turning up to work...no fcuking way...

Anniversarys......just wrong. if thats the case I want a medal for surving twnty odd years of marriage !

Actually the Border Allowance after tax paid less than that for a non-border stationed soldier down the country claiming for each specific duty. The Border Allowance was a flat rate regardless of how many Guards, Patrols, Stand-too's etc.. etc.. you did a week.

The tradition of awarding military personnel a commemorative medal is well established throughout Europe, from about 1800 onwards.

The Good Conduct Medal was dropped after two years, looking here at the list of recipients it was mainly for senior NCOs with just 1 Trooper, 1 Gunner, 6 Privates as opposed to 10 BQMS's - 11 RSM's - 6 BSM, 21 CQMS.

Medal for Marriage: there was one in Communist Poland believe it or not!

Connaught Stranger.

Truck Driver
24th July 2012, 21:04
The Good Conduct Medal was dropped after two years, looking here at the list of recipients it was mainly for senior NCOs with just 1 Trooper, 1 Gunner, 6 Privates as opposed to 10 BQMS's - 11 RSM's - 6 BSM, 21 CQMS...

Firstly C-S, where is that list (out of idle curiosity)

Secondly, one of those 21 CQMSs was actaully a SQMS and my former Cadre Q...

goc132
24th July 2012, 21:43
No member of the Reserve ever received the "Good Conduct Medal" but if was correctly awarded then it would be still on issue and I think when all the present recipients are retired the GDM should be reintroduced with proper standards been taken into account in fact it is a lovely medal and I have one in my collection.

hptmurphy
24th July 2012, 22:18
whats good conduct entail ....equated to '21 years of undetected crime,' mate of mine got the senior one in the NS , a small few issued there.

Nice concept but was maniplutated and ethos destroyed as has the DSM.




Medal for Marriage: there was one in Communist Poland believe it or not!


Depending on another' 21 years of undetected crime' no doubt!

In America you get the Nationa Service medal for joining up...how bad!!!!:frown:

Connaught Stranger
25th July 2012, 08:53
Firstly C-S, where is that list (out of idle curiosity)

Secondly, one of those 21 CQMSs was actaully a SQMS and my former Cadre Q...

I did not post the full rank list pf awards, but a sumary of the high ranking NCO's who got it, I did not add in a SQMS as he was the only SQMS listed so in my opinion did not need to be included under C.Q.M.S.'s.

My list includes all those by name and rank and unit they were serving in at the time of award.

Connaught Stranger.

kaiser
17th April 2013, 14:20
i heared the new medal might be issued to serving members only this august

hedgehog
17th April 2013, 14:53
i heared the new medal might be issued to serving members only this august

Great to see and remember it honours those who went before- will the RDF be issued with it as well considering they are one part of the organisation.

kaiser
17th April 2013, 15:22
the lad that told me just said serving members in august so not sure hedgehog
none of us might get it we will see

Connaught Stranger
17th April 2013, 15:46
Seems in the immediate future the P.D.F. (Serving & Retired) are getting the green light to add a "21" Bar to their military service

medals, this will bring them in line with the R.D.F. serving and former members Service medals which sport the "21" bar.

Connaught Stranger

DeV
17th April 2013, 16:14
Seems in the immediate future the P.D.F. (Serving & Retired) are getting the green light to add a "21" Bar to their military service

medals, this will bring them in line with the R.D.F. serving and former members Service medals which sport the "21" bar.

Connaught Stranger

No where in line with RDF!

RDF medal in awarded after 7 years (bars awarded after 12 and 21 years)

PDF (other ranks) medal is awarded after 10 years (bar awarded after 15 years).
The medal is awarded to PDF officers after 15 years (bar after 20 years).

Truck Driver
17th April 2013, 16:23
i heared the new medal might be issued to serving members only this august

What new medal is this, Kaiser ?

apod
17th April 2013, 16:29
Didn't the Minister himself stand up in the dail here last year and answer a parliamentary question into weather we are getting a new medal with a categoric NO? I believe it was quoted here already.

Connaught Stranger
17th April 2013, 16:33
No where in line with RDF!

RDF medal in awarded after 7 years (bars awarded after 12 and 21 years)

PDF (other ranks) medal is awarded after 10 years (bar awarded after 15 years).
The medal is awarded to PDF officers after 15 years (bar after 20 years).

In line as in having a 21 year bar for the service medal.

kaiser
17th April 2013, 16:57
the bar for doing 21 is now in
im not sure what the minister said to be honest.. it would be nice to get one for the occasion.
TD its for the 100 years of irish volunteers

DeV
17th April 2013, 18:11
In line as in having a 21 year bar for the service medal.

But every other part of the award is different

cooley
17th April 2013, 18:37
No where in line with RDF!
PDF (other ranks) medal is awarded after 10 years (bar awarded after 15 years).
The medal is awarded to PDF officers after 15 years (bar after 20 years).

Does anyone know the actual reason as to why PDF officers have to do 15 years to get the service medal? Seems a bit inequitable.

I'm looking for actual reasons here and not conjecture folks.

DeV
17th April 2013, 19:03
Does anyone know the actual reason as to why PDF officers have to do 15 years to get the service medal? Seems a bit inequitable.

I'm looking for actual reasons here and not conjecture folks.

In the past a lot of officers would leave at captain/commandant rank, it is reward doing more than the basic (as opposed to doing the minimum.

Battletour
17th April 2013, 19:50
In fact the Service Medal was offered to all ranks by the DoD after WW2/Emergency. The DF declined to award it to officers as it was felt that service was something that officers
'should be doing anyway' and that they should not seek reward or be rewarded. It was rewarded to enlisted ranks as a 'thank you' for service rendered.

There was a change of attitude in the very late 80's and it was then felt that it would be more equitable if officers were also rewarded for their service. Why 15 years was the bottom
line is unclear to me. Probably because it was more service than enlisted men as more is demanded from officers.

Truck Driver
17th April 2013, 20:28
Didn't the Minister himself stand up in the dail here last year and answer a parliamentary question into weather we are getting a new medal with a categoric NO? I believe it was quoted here already.


the bar for doing 21 is now in
im not sure what the minister said to be honest.. it would be nice to get one for the occasion.
TD its for the 100 years of irish volunteers

Thanks Kaiser
But as Apod said above, there was a lot of debate about it, and by all accounts, the idea was sh1tcanned

Connaught Stranger
17th April 2013, 20:41
But every other part of the award is different

Again my reference was to the P.D.F. and qualifying P.D.F. veterans getting a "21" bar for their service medals,

I made no reference to:

(a) the design of the P.D.F. / F.C.A. / S.M. / R.D.F. Medals,
(b) the colour of the ribbons,
(c) the distinct years / criteria needed to get the said service medals respectively.

In line, appearance wise, as a serving P.D.F. soldier having a "21" year bar on his / her service medal, the same as a R.D.F. soldier currently having a "21" bar on his / her service medal ribbon.

In line, appearance wise, as a P.D.F. veteran having a "21" bar on his / her service medal, the same as a
F.C.A. / S.M. / R.D.F. veteran currently has on his / her service medal ribbon.

And it must be further noted for clarification, the "21" bar for the P.D.F. serving and veterans is identical to the current
"21" bar for the F.C.A. / S.M. / R.D.F.

Connaught Stranger.

popeye
17th April 2013, 23:55
And why should the bar be different reservists serve the same state.

goc132
17th April 2013, 23:58
Ther was a 25 year bar passed for FCA/SM but was never made or issued.

DeV
18th April 2013, 06:05
And why should the bar be different reservists serve the same state.

Pay & pension

Connaught Stranger
18th April 2013, 15:36
And why should the bar be different reservists serve the same state.

The design of the service medals is different though:tongue:

goc132
18th April 2013, 19:32
fca service medal better design though

The real Jack
18th April 2013, 19:40
And why should the bar be different reservists serve the same state.

Well effectively one would "serve" X Years and the other X Weeks.

apod
18th April 2013, 20:31
Well effectively one would "serve" X Years and the other X Weeks.

LMFAO:-D Oh no he didn't,Oh yes he did!

fiannoglach
18th April 2013, 20:59
fca service medal better design though

PDF Service medal actually means something though...

Goldie fish
18th April 2013, 21:04
PDF Service medal actually means something though...

You couldn't get a better job in civvy street?

;-)

fiannoglach
18th April 2013, 21:39
You couldn't get a better job in civvy street?

;-)

No, the judge wouldn't let me.

DeV
18th April 2013, 22:38
All we get not that grat is gone is a service medal!

I've now been waiting 3 years to get my 12 year bar and a friend of mine has been waiting 9 years to get his service medal!

It isn't much to ask and costs the State f all.

It isn't about the weeks, it is about the time committed.

slapper
18th April 2013, 22:48
most reserves have always been willing to give up our free time and go the extra bit when needed , bad weather, floods or any emergency but alot of the time never used . after the first few times i offered and was refused i never offered again but with floods in cork lads have gone up and said they will fill sandbags and were still told no
now what is the point in having a reserve if they are not used, hopefully things will change
is it alot for a reserve to want a medal which is entitled for personal pride more than any other reason

apod
19th April 2013, 15:12
You couldn't get a better job in civvy street?

;-)

Oddly enough some people WANT to be in the DF as a career.Not everybody joined because they couldn't get a civvi job!:tongue:

DeV
19th April 2013, 16:35
most reserves have always been willing to give up our free time and go the extra bit when needed , bad weather, floods or any emergency but alot of the time never used . after the first few times i offered and was refused i never offered again but with floods in cork lads have gone up and said they will fill sandbags and were still told no
now what is the point in having a reserve if they are not used, hopefully things will change
is it alot for a reserve to want a medal which is entitled for personal pride more than any other reason

Or that they went far above the eligibility criteria

RoyalGreenJacket
19th April 2013, 18:44
Oddly enough some people WANT to be in the DF as a career.Not everybody joined because they couldn't get a civvi job!:tongue:

these people make the best soldiers.

Goldie fish
19th April 2013, 19:33
Oddly enough some people WANT to be in the DF as a career.Not everybody joined because they couldn't get a civvi job!:tongue:

What about after you are 40... :)

slapper
19th April 2013, 19:59
Or that they went far above the eligibility criteria

what do you mean

apod
19th April 2013, 21:09
To be fair, they'd be in the minority!! :)

How the f**k would you know??When were you in the Army??:8(
I know some people who have better educations then some officers who are enlisted.When i joined the DF they were turning people away!And that was just as the celtic tiger got going.It is highly insulting to those who serve their country as PROFESSIONAL soldiers to suggest that they are only doing it because they were too shite for anything less.This isn't the '70's or early '80's when the DF were desperate to increase due to the "troubles".We don't take illiterates or Judges recommendations anymore!
(Not implying that all who joined up back then all fitted into either category but their was that element)

slapper
19th April 2013, 21:26
How the f**k would you know??When were you in the Army??:8(
I know some people who have better educations then some officers who are enlisted.When i joined the DF they were turning people away!And that was just as the celtic tiger got going.It is highly insulting to those who serve their country as PROFESSIONAL soldiers to suggest that they are only doing it because they were too shite for anything less.This isn't the '70's or early '80's when the DF were desperate to increase due to the "troubles".We don't take illiterates or Judges recommendations anymore!
(Not implying that all who joined up back then all fitted into either category but their was that element)

you got to admit there is some idiots in there as well

there is lads that were in the fca/rdf that i would trust with a spud gun and they are in the pdf now with big guns

DeV
19th April 2013, 22:09
what do you mean

You have to have have 7/12/21 years effective service, effective service previously requiring only 48 hours annually.

slapper
19th April 2013, 22:21
You have to have have 7/12/21 years effective service, effective service previously requiring only 48 hours annually.

ah ya i no wat you mean now

kaiser
19th April 2013, 22:33
you got to admit there is some idiots in there as well

there is lads that were in the fca/rdf that i would trust with a spud gun and they are in the pdf now with big guns

so you do trust them??
anyway the army does get some idiots but there usually found out and farmed of to some shit hole..
with the amount of lads in the df there has to be a few village idiots that slip through
i have met one or two guys over the yrs so thick, i taught the officer on the interview boared must of passed them to keep the o/r well below the ranks of the chaps in intelligence..

slapper
19th April 2013, 22:40
so you do trust them??
a intelligence..
no
i have to laugh anytime i hear anything about military intelligence its a contradiction in terms :-D

kaiser
19th April 2013, 22:49
no
i have to laugh anytime i hear anything about military intelligence its a contradiction in terms :-D

we are a single force now so were all idiots rdf aswell:tongue:

Bravo20
19th April 2013, 23:41
MOD: How the hell did a thread on medals get into a slagging match of the PDF. Everybody back to the topic or else face a ban. That includes moderators

BANDIT
24th April 2013, 02:47
I am agreeing with APOD on a number of post, what is happening?
Even in the 70s guys, ( no gals then) joined becuae they wanted to be soldiers. IOn the 70s there was even a real threat of the violence spilling across the border and bombs going odff in Dublin etc. After the UWC strike, bloody Sunday etc on one side and the activities of the IRA on the other hand there was a feeling taht the country was really under threat.
One should not under estimate , the patriotism of people. I remember my late father telling me that in 69 when he was called up as a first line reservist , he met guys who he had not seen since the emergency and who had paid there own fares back from the US, Canada etc and answered the call at that time..

kaiser
31st May 2013, 18:17
its saying on facebook there will be approx. 300 medals issued??
100 going to the most senior officers the rest shared out to retired senior officers
I don't know how true it is but the guy saying it is switched on so:rolleyes:
a total waste of time

Buck
31st May 2013, 18:25
its saying on facebook there will be approx. 300 medals issued??
100 going to the most senior officers the rest shared out to retired senior officers
I don't know how true it is but the guy saying it is switched on so:rolleyes:
a total waste of time

I saw that myself. The way I read it was that it was getting issued to the top brass and then the rest given out to other officers and some to retd. officers.

Either way it's a pile of shite.

kaiser
31st May 2013, 18:32
how can it be justified??
what a pile of shit is right..
I wonder were the info is coming from how can it be justified

DeV
31st May 2013, 18:36
Where on FB?

Infy
31st May 2013, 18:40
Irish defence forces members and ex members page

Tyler Durden
31st May 2013, 18:44
Is there a source for this other than Facebook? I saw this myself on Facebook and I really hope it's not true. It's utter banana republic shíte if it is - gongs for the Generalissimos :rolleyes:

kaiser
31st May 2013, 19:02
Is there a source for this other than Facebook? I saw this myself on Facebook and I really hope it's not true. It's utter banana republic shíte if it is - gongs for the Generalissimos :rolleyes:

I don't know of any other source or PG,s source
I think we will have to wait out
I don't mind not getting the medal I have enough but the top brass getting them??
for what always doing whats best for themselves and not making decisions that might affect there careers

apod
31st May 2013, 19:08
Lads i have posted this twice already.Their is NO 1913 medal going on issue.The miniuster himself said so during question time in the dail and our good friend kieran marum posted the same on here.Stop swallowing ballhops:mad:

hedgehog
31st May 2013, 19:21
I think it's a 1916 medal that is referred to on FB?

Connaught Stranger
2nd June 2013, 08:04
The medal being referred to on the FB page is a Commemorative Medal for the 1916 Rising.

I was away yesterday from home so have not had time to check further postings on the page with regards this.

Will post any updates (if any.)

Original Post 1 comments contained the following:-
Well here goes you will be all delighted to hear that the 100 most senior officers of the Army will be presented with this medal in 2016 to commemorate the 1916 Easter Rising, and another 300 medals to be issued to officers, I may be out by 100 or so, but I'm led to believe that this is what is to be planned, sorry is planned. Maybe a few senior Ex Officer may be included in those figures. Isn't that just fcuk n nice of them to be so considerate, can't wait for the reactions,

EDIT! - Despite the claims, above, being made by the originator of the F.B. thread he has not posted any concrete source or link
despite being asked by several on the thread, so it might just be a sh*t stirring ball hop,
it has drawn the "Them & Us" Brigade out in full force with a lot of comments having zero connection to the subject in hand.

Connaught Stranger.

B Inman
2nd June 2013, 09:03
With no link, its probably a wind up.

goc132
2nd June 2013, 11:28
crap

hedgehog
2nd June 2013, 14:09
crap

Is that an -Oh Crap

or a crap there is no medal?

Tango_Charlie
2nd June 2013, 14:11
Ball-hop without a doubt!!! And potentially a good one as well. I'll be spreading this around the mess next week! heehee

Fridge Magnet
2nd June 2013, 14:35
I heard we're all getting a medal for being alive.

Tango_Charlie
2nd June 2013, 16:55
None for the CIS people then? Or are they just dead on the inside?

Goldie fish
2nd June 2013, 19:06
I heard we're all getting a medal for being alive.

There's already a "survivors medal".

The real Jack
19th June 2013, 13:29
ONE seem to be spending a lot of time trying to get medals for serving during the troubles, the majority of people asking for them seem to be former FCA/RDF who did some full time service on or around the border.

Defence Forces Recognition 17. Deputy Derek Keating asked the Minister for Defence if he will consider awarding a service medal for the military personnel who served this country in a most professional, brave and dedicated manner during the period of Irish history known as The Troubles; if he will recognise publicly the many unsung heroes (details supplied); his views on whether such personnel, many of whom have retired, deserve to be honoured by this State; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28741/13] Deputy Alan Shatter: There are currently two medals that mark the service of personnel with either the Permanent Defence Force or the Reserve Defence Force. The medal known as the "Service Medal” may be awarded to an officer, non-commissioned officer or private of the Permanent Defence Force or a member of the Army nursing or chaplaincy services who possesses the qualifying criteria for the award. In addition, in 1961, the "Service Medal - Reserve Defence Force” , formerly known as the "Service Medal FCA" and "An Slua Muirí" was introduced for members and former members of the Reserve who meet the qualifying criteria laid down. The awarding of either of these medals to qualifying personnel reflects the service given by those personnel to either the Permanent Defence Force or the Reserve Defence Force, as the case may be and, by extension, to the wider public, during the periods for which they served. While acknowledging the significant role of all Defence Forces personnel to the security of the State throughout the period of the Troubles, I am satisfied that these medals meet the need of marking service of personnel with either the Permanent Defence Force or the Reserve Defence Force and I have no plans to introduce additional medals. Deputy Derek Keating: I thank the Minister for his reply. I grew up on a daily diet of the Troubles on television, radio and in the print media. I welcome the move away from terrorism; away from the killing, mayhem and other illegal activities that took place over those unhappy decades. Such activities were carried out by a number of groups including the IRA and supporters of that organisation, including Sinn Féin, members of which have been elected to this House. I had hoped that the Minister would recognise a need to remember and distinguish those members of the Irish Defence Forces who throughout the 1970s, 1980s and even the 1990s, protected our Border, defused bombs, assisted the Garda with State security and carried out many other acts of bravery. The Minister will agree that the Irish Army is recognised throughout the world as a highly professional, brave and dedicated troupe of men and women who have served this country with great honour. During those troubled times, they provided the State with a service that warrants the term "hero". It is in that spirit that I tabled this question, to seek some recognition through a service medal.

Bravo20
19th June 2013, 14:16
Any chance you could change the font colour?

The real Jack
19th June 2013, 14:27
Any chance you could change the font colour?

Think it's changed now, I'm using the VB4 default style

kaiser
19th June 2013, 14:55
why don't we look for a medal for service in the laoise while were at it:-D

also were looking for a 1916 medal and a 100th anniversary of the irish volunteers
jesus some lads will be like idi amin with out leaving the country

Connaught Stranger
19th June 2013, 15:58
ONE seem to be spending a lot of time trying to get medals for serving during the troubles, the majority of people asking for them seem to be former FCA/RDF who did some full time service on or around the border.


ONE seem to be spending a lot of time trying to get medals for serving during the troubles, the majority of people asking for them seem to be former FCA/RDF who did some full time service on or around the border.

The number of members of the Old F.C.A. (prior to being renamed the R.D.F.) who would have served as full-time would be in the low hundreds.

How do you actually calculate that O.N.E. are working on behalf of a majority of F.C.A. bods? Is there a list of names published?

During my P.D.F. service with the 28th Bn in Finner Camp, between 1976 - 1997 the number of the Reserve Other Ranks on full-time duty was about 1 including those who came over to work in Finner when Manorhamilton Military Post Closed. Some of them subsequently, where age and health allowed underwent the "conversion course" from F.C.A. to P.D.F. keeping the ranks they had in the Reserve.

There are a couple of Facebook "Forums" with many P.D.F. ex-members who seem to think they are owed something for their service on the Border, during the "Troubles" possibly they have a just cause for some form of recognition be it a certificate, medal or a bar with the word border in Irish to add to the existing service medal.
However, in my honest opinion in these times of economic cutbacks and crisis its not the point in time to push for it, while many in the country are in dire straights.

No offense to current serving members of the P.D.F. and R.D.F. and not to trumpet my own horn, but, unless you actually did service on the border in that period, then you have little idea of the frequency of duties being undertaken, even more so during the periods when manpower levels had dropped to well below the recommended established strength of battalions, when many soldiers left the military for work in civie street and recruiting returns were very low.

Connaught Stranger.

Bravo20
19th June 2013, 16:21
There are worse things to award a medal for, and I don't think it would cost that much.

kaiser
19th June 2013, 17:03
i think a bar on the service medal would be a good idea like Connaught stranger said

The real Jack
19th June 2013, 17:18
The number of members of the Old F.C.A. (prior to being renamed the R.D.F.) who would have served as full-time would be in the low hundreds.

Where exactly did I state there was legions of these bods?


How do you actually calculate that O.N.E. are working on behalf of a majority of F.C.A. bods? Is there a list of names published?
Because the people who are spamming about it on my personal news feed are ONE members, many of which have various fantasy medals and are craving for another bit of medal to hang on their chest. The only people I see shiteing are former FCA. I cannot speak for former PDF doing the same.


No offense to current serving members of the P.D.F. and R.D.F. and not to trumpet my own horn, but, unless you actually did service on the border in that period, then you have little idea of the frequency of duties being undertaken, even more so during the periods when manpower levels had dropped to well below the recommended established strength of battalions, when many soldiers left the military for work in civie street and recruiting returns were very low.


http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/321/491/939.png

I didn't want to hear anecdotes about the border I just posted that PQ after seeing FCA heads going on about it.

Connaught Stranger
19th June 2013, 17:54
Where exactly did I state there was legions of these bods?


Because the people who are spamming about it on my personal news feed are ONE members, many of which have various fantasy medals and are craving for another bit of medal to hang on their chest. The only people I see shiteing are former FCA. I cannot speak for former PDF doing the same.



http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/321/491/939.png

I didn't want to hear anecdotes about the border I just posted that PQ after seeing FCA heads going on about it.

Well boo fvcking hoo sonny, I posted a comment containing FACT's as too the reason why both P.D.F. and F.C.A. (both serving or retired from that period are seeking some recognition.

Point 1: was a reference to a specific number, in reference to your "mainly F.C.A." comment.

Point 2: I was very much there during that period were you in any capacity P.D.F. or F.C.A.?

Point 3: If some people feel they have a just cause, with regards this matter be they F.C.A. / R.D.F. / P.D.F.

so be it
Democracy at work.

Connaught Stranger.

The real Jack
19th June 2013, 19:07
Well boo fvcking hoo sonny, I posted a comment containing FACT's as too the reason why both P.D.F. and F.C.A. (both serving or retired from that period are seeking some recognition.

And I haven't posted facts? I posted the fact that FCA ONE members are shiteing on about getting a medal. Is this not true? Is it not true that former full time FCA don't have any overseas medals so they want more medals to feel less insecure at ONE meetings?


Point 1: was a reference to a specific number, in reference to your "mainly F.C.A." comment.

spe·cif·ic /spə'sifik/ Adjective Clearly defined or identified


Point 2: I was very much there during that period

I don't care, this has nothing to do with me posting a parliamentary question.


were you in any capacity P.D.F. or F.C.A.?

At what point did I mention any personal experience of operations on the border? What relevance does this have to me posting a PQ?

goc132
20th June 2013, 12:21
The Irish Defence Forces through the Government are poor at recognising service my God it took years for the regulations regarding the "Military Star" so that Private Kelly could be given due recognition.

In my opinion not enough medals there should always be a "Meritorious Service Medal" & the "Good Conduct Medal" should be reissued with a proper criteria.

DeV
20th June 2013, 13:52
The Irish Defence Forces through the Government are poor at recognising service my God it took years for the regulations regarding the "Military Star" so that Private Kelly could be given due recognition.


Because it was awarded for those who died overseas only

The real Jack
20th June 2013, 13:53
ONE make their own medals anyway, and once you're in it, it seems you can wear what you like. For example, I saw a retired Slua officer recently with several medals on, including a War of Independence one.

Some even have parachute wings when they have never even been on a plane. They must get the wings for going to a westlife concert.

Sluggie
20th June 2013, 22:02
In my opinion not enough medals

Now I get it. goc132 has joined the ONE. At least we won't have to wade through loads of resolutions about buckshe medals at RDFRA conferences any more.

goc132
20th June 2013, 23:07
Sluggie you have a cut at me if you want but in my opinion members of the Defence Forces have been denied awards that should have been instituted over the years and in my opinion which I am entitled too is as follows.
1. Members of the Defence Forces shot and wounded overseas. NO AWARD.
2. Members of the Defence Forces on the Border in 1969 Circa . NO AWARD
3. Members of the Defence Forces at the Special Olympics 2003. NO AWARD
4. Members of the Defence Forces served in excess of three years overseas .NO AWARD
5. Commerative Medals i.e. 50 Anniversary of 1916 Rising/War of Independance etc

What sort of Country are we and by the way Sluggie , I would not qualify for any of the above awards but I do think all those people that were on these mission/historic occasion should have been awarded such medals.

On
No 1 most armies have a medal for personal wounded,
No 2 Missions like the Border would constitute a Medal,
No 3 Spl Olympics Medals were awarded to the Order of Malta/Irish Red Cross/St John's Ambulance & Civil Defence.
No 4 UK Forces get an Acumlative Service Medal for spend in excess of three years overseas I know one cahp from Mullingar that was in UNIFIL on 14 trips.
No 5 Most Armies have Commerative Medals in Fact the Gardai recieved a Golden Jubilee Medal & a Millenium Service Medal.

The real Jack
20th June 2013, 23:56
1. Fair enough
2. Dont want to get involved in that debate!
3. Why on earth would you need a medal for doing the special Olympics???? Order of Malta/Irish Red Cross/St John's Ambulance & Civil Defence are not exactly military formations, I seriously doubt British military got medals for doing the Olympics.
4. If you do multiple trips overseas don't you get a medal for each trip? So if you spent 7 years with unifil you'd have a 14 bar/number on the ribbon?
5. Commemorative medals have no value they're just meaningless shit to make people feel better about not having enough shiny things on their chest.

Fridge Magnet
21st June 2013, 10:55
A medal for being on the border? Give over.

There's border Unit's still wearing their medals for being close to the border, it just comes in their payslip.

I want a medal for doing CIT's.

Barry
21st June 2013, 11:49
I know one cahp from Mullingar that was in UNIFIL on 14 trips.
He must hate his wife

kaiser
21st June 2013, 11:52
He must hate his wife
he likes the one he has in Tibnin

goc132
21st June 2013, 12:59
Real Jack

The Irish Red Cross & Civil Defence come under the Dept of Defence.
UK forces get UN medal but after three years overseas they get an Acumilative Service Medal used to be in Sterling Silver and the Brits don't give out medals to easily.
You never mentioned people wounded from enemy fire at all who are still suffering years later.

DeV
21st June 2013, 14:00
Real Jack

The Irish Red Cross & Civil Defence come under the Dept of Defence.
UK forces get UN medal but after three years overseas they get an Acumilative Service Medal used to be in Sterling Silver and the Brits don't give out medals to easily.
You never mentioned people wounded from enemy fire at all who are still suffering years later.

The Brits give out medals for their boss's birthday !

The real Jack
21st June 2013, 15:27
Real Jack

The Irish Red Cross & Civil Defence come under the Dept of Defence.

That is an administrative distinction, they do not carry rifles.


UK forces get UN medal but after three years overseas they get an Acumilative Service Medal used to be in Sterling Silver and the Brits don't give out medals to easily.

And the DF awards service medals for x/y years of service, the numbers of medals/numbers on medals indicates approximately how long was spent serving overseas.

You never mentioned people wounded from enemy fire at all who are still suffering years later.
I did, just said fair enough which meant I agree completely, maybe a purple heart type award would be suitable. I'm trying to find out if the Brits have something like that.


1. Members of the Defence Forces shot and wounded overseas. NO AWARD.



1. Fair enough

DeV
21st June 2013, 18:36
In in two minds about awarding the Special Olympics to the DF.

While all are under DOD, RDF got paid!

apod
21st June 2013, 19:47
A medal for the special olympics.Get real FFS.:rolleyes:
There are some guys in the ONE wearing more medals than Idi Amin.Most are ones they applied for.It devalues the medals the rest of us EARNED.

Battletour
21st June 2013, 20:41
[QUOTE . There are some guys in the ONE wearing more medals than Idi Amin.Most are ones they applied for.It devalues the medals the rest of us EARNED.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more. Between IUNVA and the ONE the 'medal' display is an embarrassment and it does devalue earned medals. Some medal wearers have never served overseas!

The real Jack
21st June 2013, 21:06
I don't mean to be bashing the ONE, it just that it seems to be overrun with bling seekers. ONE do some good work for ex servicemen with the homes they run & drop in centers and I have no intention of taking away from that. I can't say I know anything about what IUNVA does but they seem to have the same issues that ONE has.

At the end of the day the ONE North korean general impersonators aren't actually hurting anyone and they do provide a bit of light entertainment when you see them!

kaiser
21st June 2013, 21:35
Idi Amin Dada (mid-1920s – 16 August 2003) was the third President of Uganda
No 1 medal chaser

The real Jack
21st June 2013, 21:54
Idi Amin Dada (mid-1920s – 16 August 2003) was the third President of Uganda
No 1 medal chaser
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wUQr64Rlz_M/T7Ab5zGqbxI/AAAAAAAABKQ/A5679p9HR8Y/s180/idi-amin-laughing.gif

Bravo20
21st June 2013, 22:30
Whatever about your views about Special Olympics or commemerative medals you really have to admit that a medal for service during the troubles has some merit. After all we issued a medal for service during the emergency.

danno
21st June 2013, 22:35
Will those recently amnestied get the emergency medal.

hptmurphy
21st June 2013, 23:03
Communion medals?

IUNVA ...shower of knobs.......ONE wasn't good enough for them once the Reservist were allowed join so they became even more elitist and made up their own organisation,

but the cnuts are fast enough to grant ' associate member ship ' for money when they haven't enough members to pay the bills.

Clonmel being case in point.

goc132
22nd June 2013, 00:28
We have all served let us all be friends and acknowledge our service as no one else will acknowledge it.
Bravo 20 the "Emergency" been a good point for Border Service.

Saab
22nd June 2013, 08:08
A medal for the special olympics.Get real FFS.:rolleyes:
There are some guys in the ONE wearing more medals than Idi Amin.Most are ones they applied for.It devalues the medals the rest of us EARNED.

THere is more than one way to earn an award.
Many people both PDF and RDF did a lot of work during the Sp Olympics.
And not just for the week of the games.
If a medal was issued for it then it would have been well earned!!!!

How can you justify a service medal for which all you need to do is turn up for work but mock the idea of a medal for prople that went and did something outside their normal requirements?

apod
22nd June 2013, 08:49
Many people both PDF and RDF did a lot of work during the Sp Olympics.
For us its called our job.The lads just did a different one that week or whatever.No different to the prep and conduct of an exercise.For RDF it was a different way to spend their camp.



And not just for the week of the games.If a medal was issued for it then it would have been well earned!!!!

My point made above.I was part of the opening ceremony for Special olympics Ireland a few years back.We did alot of prep beforehand and the ceremony was outside normal working hours.Did we get extra pay?A medal?Did we f**k.Get real.


How can you justify a service medal for which all you need to do is turn up for work but mock the idea of a medal for people that went and did something outside their normal requirements?
The service medal is a medal that recognises the commitment you give to the state.Dont forget the old contracts were only three years long.Some people only did the minimum and left.Those who have a service medal gave up most of their adult lives to the service of the Irish people to earn it.It also recognises the cumulative amounts of time we get called out in ATCP/ATCA etc etc over that time.Most at unsocial hours and which places greater strain on families at those times.IE above and beyond the normal day to day routine.
Awarding a mingy medal for anything,special olympics CAMP etc devalues the other real awards.

Saab
22nd June 2013, 09:42
My point made above.I was part of the opening ceremony for Special olympics Ireland a few years back.We did alot of prep beforehand and the ceremony was outside normal working hours.Did we get extra pay?A medal?Did we f**k.Get real.

You are a man of contradiction.

You say you do what you do because it is what you do.
But if that is the case then there would be no medals after all it is what you signed up for.
Why give a guy a medal for best shot. Aren't soldiers supposed to be good shots?

A mate of mine was in 2 Fld Eng at the time. According to him the work he did for Sp O was more difficult that what they did in Kosovo. So was the Kosovo medal for taking a risk or doing the job?
I don't know IF anyone should be getting a medal for SpO or not.
The fact that there is no medal for it does not answer that question.
But all I am saying is that it was not just a matter of show up and hand about. People worked hard.
I did it in addition to camp. It wasn't instead of it.

But as you say it is your job to do all what you do then when do you earn the medal?
Although it is part of your job isn't there times when that job is recognised?
So why should the recognition of doing one thing lessen the recognition of something else? As you say it's all part of your job!!

kaiser
22nd June 2013, 11:43
I for one think the idea of a medal so Special Ol is crap
how long was the prep and the opening event??
next we will want one for the horse show-- were involved with that!!
sabb your mate in the wingineers said the work was harder? was it more dangerous was he a couple of thousand miles from home
was there people who might kill him if he slips up at the special Ol??
I cant believe the amount of walters wanting medals do a mission were a medal will be awarded that will sort out the want in you

DeV
22nd June 2013, 11:58
It wasn't just for the opening ceremony, they covered the games as well, can't remember the name of the special RDF unit but it was the largest unit in the DF at the time.
If I recall correctly, there was people that did up to 7 weeks.

kaiser
22nd June 2013, 12:32
it was a civvie event???

DeV
22nd June 2013, 12:43
Correct, which the DF was tasked with supporting

Vickers
22nd June 2013, 12:57
It wasn't just for the opening ceremony, they covered the games as well, can't remember the name of the special RDF unit but it was the largest unit in the DF at the time.
If I recall correctly, there was people that did up to 7 weeks.

It was not a special RDF unit. It was a special DF unit called the Defence Forces Special Olympics Detachment. Indeed some RDF did up to 7 weeks.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2003/06/17/00100.asp

apod
22nd June 2013, 15:29
You are a man of contradiction.
Funny.My wife says that too.:-D


You say you do what you do because it is what you do.
But if that is the case then there would be no medals after all it is what you signed up for.
Soldiers sign up and accept certain conditions of service.Risk to life and limb or long service deserve recognition.Doing a task different to your everyday task does not.We don't get medals for every tour in Portloaise or every time we get called out for flood relief.It is considered part of our job.We get financially remunerated yes but that's as far as it goes.


Why give a guy a medal for best shot. Aren't soldiers supposed to be good shots?
Indeed.But some are better than others.Competition awards recognise that and improve morale and esprit de corps.


A mate of mine was in 2 Fld Eng at the time. According to him the work he did for Sp O was more difficult that what they did in Kosovo. So was the Kosovo medal for taking a risk or doing the job?
That wouldn't be hard.I served in Kosovo with the Infantry.We patrolled non stop,provided CRC elements and faced risk every time we went outside the wire.The engineers maintained the camp and went to the cinema in Bondsteel a lot.However if called upon the engineers could be tasked to go outside the wire also in CRC ops.


I don't know IF anyone should be getting a medal for SpO or not.
Why advocate it so??


The fact that there is no medal for it does not answer that question.
But all I am saying is that it was not just a matter of show up and hand about. People worked hard.
I did it in addition to camp. It wasn't instead of it.

But as you say it is your job to do all what you do then when do you earn the medal?
Although it is part of your job isn't there times when that job is recognised?
So why should the recognition of doing one thing lessen the recognition of something else? As you say it's all part of your job!!
I am sure people did work hard.That is not the issue.I have explained when you earn the medal.For the most part the only recognition we get is medals for overseas or long service.Are you seriously suggesting that the medal we receive for serving overseas in conflict areas is undeserved??Try serving in a place like the Leb in the old days when we regularly came under fire both direct and indirect.Try that for six months and longer.Now compare that to a mingy medal for acting as ushers and helpers at a sporting event.Again.Get real.

RoyalGreenJacket
22nd June 2013, 16:00
perhaps issue a scroll or parchment as recognition for participation in a 'special event' but certainly not a medal.

the Olympics in 2012 would have failed without the British Army and other Forces stepping in, but as apod pointed out - we don't deserve a medal for it.

you might argue the same for the Queens Jubilee medals - but this isn't in recognition of the event, but of reckonable Crown service at the time of the event.

DeV
22nd June 2013, 17:34
you might argue the same for the Queens Jubilee medals - but this isn't in recognition of the event, but of reckonable Crown service at the time of the event.

It is nothing to do with the amount of service (it was just part of the elibability criteria).

If it was about service it would only awarded to those with 20 years service.

Saab
22nd June 2013, 23:01
Why advocate it so??

Actually i haven't.
I don't think there should be a comerative medal for the SpO.
But then I look ar some of the guys in the RDF with their service medals.
Which is basically a medal for turning up.

But I see no reasoon for not having a medal for doing more than the norm.
Whether that is making safe an IED on O'Connel Bridge, spending 48 hrs on a SAR with mountain rescue in sub zero temperatures or 7 weeks getting things ready for the SpO is not really relevent.
But thats just my opinion and will have no influence on the production of a medal.

Re-the engineers.
You just said they didn't do what the inf had to do.
Should they have gotten the medal then?
Is the medal for being there or doing certain things?

FMolloy
23rd June 2013, 01:08
But I see no reason for not having a medal for doing more than the norm. Whether that is making safe an IED on O'Connel Bridge, spending 48 hrs on a SAR with mountain rescue in sub zero temperatures or 7 weeks getting things ready for the SpO is not really relevant.

What was done outside of the norm should be very relevant. Two of the examples listed above would have involved some risk to your personal safety, the other didn't. To have one medal cover all three examples would lessen the value put on it, and if the public found out that the DF was giving out medals for something like helping out at the Special Olympics then the organisation would become a complete laughing stock.

RoyalGreenJacket
23rd June 2013, 03:49
It is nothing to do with the amount of service (it was just part of the elibability criteria).

If it was about service it would only awarded to those with 20 years service.

the criteria for the Queens Jubilee Medals clearly states that an individual must have served for at least 5 years in order to qualify for the medal - if you did not have sufficient service then you would not be recognised as meeting the criteria and no medal would be issued.

There are tens of thousands of serving members of the British Forces and other institutions normally in receipt of the medal who did not qualify for the various Queens Jubilee Medals because their service of less than 5 years was not recognised.

the medals are only issued in recognition of that service for 5 years before the event.

I received both the Golden and Diamond medals but only the latter really means anything to me due to the fantastic year that was in it, and the various activities and operations I was involved in during that year including the Olympics, and deploying to Afghanistan.

Yes they [Jubilee Medals] are only issued for the actual jubilee anniversary, but if it was not about time served then everyone would have received the medal, however they did not.

DeV
23rd June 2013, 06:52
What was done outside of the norm should be very relevant. Two of the examples listed above would have involved some risk to your personal safety, the other didn't. To have one medal cover all three examples would lessen the value put on it, and if the public found out that the DF was giving out medals for something like helping out at the Special Olympics then the organisation would become a complete laughing stock.

The agrument is that CD and IRC (both of whom come under DOD) got it. DOD make the DFRs not the DF.

Every serving Garda got a medal in 1972 for the 50th anniversary and another in 2000 because it was the year 2000.



the criteria for the Queens Jubilee Medals clearly states that an individual must have served for at least 5 years in order to qualify for the medal - if you did not have sufficient service then you would not be recognised as meeting the criteria and no medal would be issued.

There are tens of thousands of serving members of the British Forces and other institutions normally in receipt of the medal who did not qualify for the various Queens Jubilee Medals because their service of less than 5 years was not recognised.

the medals are only issued in recognition of that service for 5 years before the event.

I received both the Golden and Diamond medals but only the latter really means anything to me due to the fantastic year that was in it, and the various activities and operations I was involved in during that year including the Olympics, and deploying to Afghanistan.

Yes they [Jubilee Medals] are only issued for the actual jubilee anniversary, but if it was not about time served then everyone would have received the medal, however they did not.

It was nothing to do with service !

If it wasn't it wouldn't have been awarded to people who already held long service medals.

FMolloy
23rd June 2013, 15:34
The argument is that CD and IRC (both of whom come under DOD) got it. DOD make the DFRs not the DF.

If someone wants a CD or Red Cross medal then they should join those organisations. Someone making the argument of 'they got one so I want one' sounds to me like they're a bit on vain side & are desperate for a gong, no matter what it's for.


Every serving Garda got a medal in 1972 for the 50th anniversary and another in 2000 because it was the year 2000.

I've only ever seen three Gardaí wear the Millennium medal, no one else bothers with it. Similarly the DFB issued a medal last year to mark their centenary but no one wears it & any firefighter I've talked to considered it to be a waste of money.

If a medal is issued to mark the establishment of Óglaigh Na hEireann, should there be more issued to mark the Rising, the War of Independence and the Civil War? Should we have members of the DF walking around wearing a chest full of medals not because they earned them, but because they're the military equivalent of three commemorative stamps?

hptmurphy
23rd June 2013, 16:13
Indeed some RDF did up to 7 weeks.

So did the guys in 'Braveheart!'


but because they're the military equivalent of three commemorative stamps?

Lovely analogy!

Saab
24th June 2013, 08:31
Dev, who issued the medal, the government or the organisation?

Brave heart was a commercial venture.
The SpO was a community project under international scrutiny.

I agree that just because one organisation gave out medals doesn't mean all should.

And I think medal chasing is stupid.

But IF the President of Ireland decided to give out a medal for doing certain things then thats the presidents perogative.
You may feel that it is akin to a boy scout medal and decide you don't want it butit does not mean any other award given by the president has been devalued.

DeV
24th June 2013, 10:06
Dev, who issued the medal, the government or the organisation?

Brave heart was a commercial venture.
The SpO was a community project under international scrutiny.

I agree that just because one organisation gave out medals doesn't mean all should.

And I think medal chasing is stupid.

But IF the President of Ireland decided to give out a medal for doing certain things then thats the presidents perogative.
You may feel that it is akin to a boy scout medal and decide you don't want it butit does not mean any other award given by the president has been devalued.


To the best of my knowledge the Government doesn't award any medals, the organisation (eg the DF) do.

I'm not on one side of the other by the way, I'm just pointing out the facts!

In the case of the Special Olympics, DOD allowed 2 organisations under their control to award medals.

In the case of the 2 GS medals I mentioned, it doesn't matter if they aren't worn, they were still issued.

FMolloy
24th June 2013, 10:43
In the case of the 2 GS medals I mentioned, it doesn't matter if they aren't worn, they were still issued.


I think it does, to the extent that it shows that commemorative medals aren't worn & are a waste of money. If Gardaí and Firefighters don't put much store in such unearned awards then I have no doubt that soldiers, sailors & airmen would feel the same. The end result is money spent on medals that will more than likely end up in the back of a dresser drawer.

If we want to commemorate the various anniversaries that are upon us then the money would be better spent on permanent monuments, both new & existing, and on the public promotion of those events.

DeV
24th June 2013, 11:36
I think it does, to the extent that it shows that commemorative medals aren't worn & are a waste of money. If Gardaí and Firefighters don't put much store in such unearned awards then I have no doubt that soldiers, sailors & airmen would feel the same. The end result is money spent on medals that will more than likely end up in the back of a dresser drawer.

If we want to commemorate the various anniversaries that are upon us then the money would be better spent on permanent monuments, both new & existing, and on the public promotion of those events.

If something is awarded it should be worn.

Question is should it be issued in the first place!

FMolloy
24th June 2013, 11:57
If something is awarded it should be worn.


Is there an obligation on serving members to wear medals?

RoyalGreenJacket
24th June 2013, 13:00
Is there an obligation on serving members to wear medals?

surely unless it specifically states that a medal should NOT be worn - then it must be mandatory for all issued medals to be worn, and it should constitute an offence not to wear it?

B Inman
24th June 2013, 13:16
Is there an obligation on serving members to wear medals?

Back in the day the admin order for a parade, inspection, GOH, etc contained the following line "medals will be worn". I doubt that its changed.

DeV
24th June 2013, 13:45
Back in the day the admin order for a parade, inspection, GOH, etc contained the following line "medals will be worn". I doubt that its changed.

It hasn't

Connaught Stranger
8th October 2013, 21:22
Official Issue to P.D.F. serving with the requisite number of days service,

and also on official issue to Irish military veterans with the requisite number of days service.

7281

Connaught Stranger.

Rhodes
8th October 2013, 22:32
Official Issue to P.D.F. serving with the requisite number of days service,

and also on official issue to Irish military veterans with the requisite number of days service.

7281

Connaught Stranger.

The attachment is not working.

Connaught Stranger
10th October 2013, 11:38
The attachment is not working.

It works fine for me.

Connaught Stranger.

goc132
10th October 2013, 14:05
not working for me either?

Truck Driver
10th October 2013, 15:49
Or me...

Rhodes
10th October 2013, 20:09
It works fine for me.

Connaught Stranger.

It says its invalid. Try uploading again, make sure you do not tick the box where it says "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" when uploading.

Fridge Magnet
10th October 2013, 20:18
Didn't work for me either.

What is the attachment supposed to be?

midnight oil
10th October 2013, 20:25
Didn't work for me either.

What is the attachment supposed to be?

At a guess the 21 year bar. Looks same as the 15 year bar but with 21 instead of 15.

It is for enlisted per only. There was 900 recipients in 2Bde and 400 in DFTC. I am not sure about other formations

Connaught Stranger
10th October 2013, 21:13
At a guess the 21 year bar. Looks same as the 15 year bar but with 21 instead of 15.

It is for enlisted per only. There was 900 recipients in 2Bde and 400 in DFTC. I am not sure about other formations

Well I retired from the Irish Defence Forces in 1997 with 21 years 174 days service,

and it came in an official brown envelope, with the correct postage paid :-p

7283

cooley
12th October 2013, 19:18
Official Issue to P.D.F. serving with the requisite number of days service,

and also on official issue to Irish military veterans with the requisite number of days service.

7281

Connaught Stranger.

What is this?

Connaught Stranger
12th October 2013, 20:53
What is this?


the 21 year bar.

midnight oil
12th October 2013, 20:59
Your images are still not showing ;)

Connaught Stranger
12th October 2013, 21:29
The problem is not at my end, seems to be a glitch on the forum.

The real Jack
12th October 2013, 21:51
Host it on imgur and don't tick the box.

kaiser
16th October 2013, 18:16
I just seen on facebook a medal for the ann of 100 yrs of the irish vol
they are charging 30 euros for it
How many mingy type medals do people want

Rhodes
16th October 2013, 18:29
I just seen on facebook a medal for the ann of 100 yrs of the irish vol
they are charging 30 euros for it
How many mingy type medals do people want

Its from O.N.E, profits go to their Fuchsia appeal.

Connaught Stranger
16th October 2013, 18:50
Its just another commemorative piece of "bling-bling"

no law against it being made, and no law against people buying it, wearing it

as such, and as we live in a democracy, those who want to buy it and wear it are free to do so.

Connaught Stranger.

kaiser
16th October 2013, 18:53
Its just another commemorative piece of "bling-bling"

no law against it being made, and no law against people buying it, wearing it

as such, and as we live in a democracy, those who want to buy it and wear it are free to do so.

Connaught Stranger.
I know C_S your right just wondering how many of these types medals are there
I know of 2 this one makes three so if you had a service medal and never been overseas you could walk around with 4 medals
Imho I think its a bit much

Battletour
16th October 2013, 20:35
While I believe there should have been a commemorative medal issued for the centenary I cringe even more at the bling collectors/producers/wearers. It is frankly embarrassing
to have 'veterans' wearing rows of mingy medals. I know it is not illegal but it is embarrassing. It demeans those medals awarded for service and demeans the DF as a body.
It is not right. Yes we live in a democracy but we should not turn veteran's organisations into a bling club. It is just wrong to demean the DF in such a manner.

Rhodes
16th October 2013, 21:24
Medals should be earned for one's own service and not handed out for anniversaries or the service of others 100 years ago.

Connaught Stranger
16th October 2013, 21:37
I know C_S your right just wondering how many of these types medals are there
I know of 2 this one makes three so if you had a service medal and never been overseas you could walk around with 4 medals
Imho I think its a bit much

Its know as "padding out" and various combinations are available, I have seen a 9 medal bar set for an ex- Irish soldier who served 6 years, in the Irish military, gives his unit as 12 Cn Cois, and with one trip in Cyprus in , his first 3 Army service number digits given as 817***

The first two medals on the bar are legit awards,

1. The United Nations Peacekeepers Medal.

2. The U.N. Cyprus Service medal.

3. I.U.N.V.A. Membership Medal with bar, has to be paid for by the bearer.

4. A U.S. Presidents Champion Program / Award Medal ( awarded to (U.S.) civilians for merit in sports education etc..etc.. )

5. Soldiers of Peace Association Medal (Gold) self bought by the bearer.

6. Soldiers of Peace Association Medal (Silver) self bought by the bearer,

7. U.N. H.Q. (New York) Service Medal with a number "9" afixed to it, 100% sure its self awarded and self bought,

8. International Volunteer Foreign Service Medal (self bought bling-bling.)

9. 50th Anniversary of the United Nations Medal (self bought bling-bling.)

He also sports 3 Jump wing Insignias.

1. Irish Military Issue Para Wings.

2. U.S. Army Military Para Wings. (with Ranger Scroll)

3. European Military Parachute Association Wings.

He is also very adapt at making up / photo-shoping "award" documents for the self bought awards by adding pictures of himself
to the documents and then scanning them.

He also has a home-made document conferring him as a "RANGER" (just to be accurate, apparently he did do the old style RANGER Course in 1969, however the document he has posted online, despite its appearance is nothing official and the Lt. Colonel's signature is also not an original at the foot of the document.

Truly a sad case.

Connaught Stranger

Buck
16th October 2013, 22:07
Its know as "padding out" and various combinations are available, I have seen a 9 medal bar set for an ex- Irish soldier who served 6 years, in the Irish military, gives his unit as 12 Cn Cois, and with one trip in Cyprus in , his first 3 Army service number digits given as 817***

The first two medals on the bar are legit awards,

1. The United Nations Peacekeepers Medal.

2. The U.N. Cyprus Service medal.

3. I.U.N.V.A. Membership Medal with bar, has to be paid for by the bearer.

4. A U.S. Presidents Champion Program / Award Medal ( awarded to (U.S.) civilians for merit in sports education etc..etc.. )

5. Soldiers of Peace Association Medal (Gold) self bought by the bearer.

6. Soldiers of Peace Association Medal (Silver) self bought by the bearer,

7. U.N. H.Q. (New York) Service Medal with a number "9" afixed to it, 100% sure its self awarded and self bought,

8. International Volunteer Foreign Service Medal (self bought bling-bling.)

9. 50th Anniversary of the United Nations Medal (self bought bling-bling.)

He also sports 3 Jump wing Insignias.

1. Irish Military Issue Para Wings.

2. U.S. Army Military Para Wings. (with Ranger Scroll)

3. European Military Parachute Association Wings.

He is also very adapt at making up / photo-shoping "award" documents for the self bought awards by adding pictures of himself
to the documents and then scanning them.

He also has a home-made document conferring him as a "RANGER" (just to be accurate, apparently he did do the old style RANGER Course in 1969, however the document he has posted online, despite its appearance is nothing official and the Lt. Colonel's signature is also not an original at the foot of the document.

Truly a sad case.

Connaught Stranger

I think I know the fella you're on about CS...

hedgehog
16th October 2013, 22:41
Its know as "padding out" and various combinations are available, I have seen a 9 medal bar set for an ex- Irish soldier who served 6 years, in the Irish military, gives his unit as 12 Cn Cois, and with one trip in Cyprus in , his first 3 Army service number digits given as 817***

The first two medals on the bar are legit awards,

1. The United Nations Peacekeepers Medal.

2. The U.N. Cyprus Service medal.

3. I.U.N.V.A. Membership Medal with bar, has to be paid for by the bearer.

4. A U.S. Presidents Champion Program / Award Medal ( awarded to (U.S.) civilians for merit in sports education etc..etc.. )

5. Soldiers of Peace Association Medal (Gold) self bought by the bearer.

6. Soldiers of Peace Association Medal (Silver) self bought by the bearer,

7. U.N. H.Q. (New York) Service Medal with a number "9" afixed to it, 100% sure its self awarded and self bought,

8. International Volunteer Foreign Service Medal (self bought bling-bling.)

9. 50th Anniversary of the United Nations Medal (self bought bling-bling.)

He also sports 3 Jump wing Insignias.

1. Irish Military Issue Para Wings.

2. U.S. Army Military Para Wings. (with Ranger Scroll)

3. European Military Parachute Association Wings.

He is also very adapt at making up / photo-shoping "award" documents for the self bought awards by adding pictures of himself
to the documents and then scanning them.

He also has a home-made document conferring him as a "RANGER" (just to be accurate, apparently he did do the old style RANGER Course in 1969, however the document he has posted online, despite its appearance is nothing official and the Lt. Colonel's signature is also not an original at the foot of the document.

Truly a sad case.

Connaught Stranger

And a fine set of chompers as well.

Tango_Charlie
17th October 2013, 18:06
Its know as "padding out" and various combinations are available, I have seen a 9 medal bar set for an ex- Irish soldier who served 6 years, in the Irish military, gives his unit as 12 Cn Cois, and with one trip in Cyprus in , his first 3 Army service number digits given as 817***

The first two medals on the bar are legit awards,

1. The United Nations Peacekeepers Medal.

2. The U.N. Cyprus Service medal.

3. I.U.N.V.A. Membership Medal with bar, has to be paid for by the bearer.

4. A U.S. Presidents Champion Program / Award Medal ( awarded to (U.S.) civilians for merit in sports education etc..etc.. )

5. Soldiers of Peace Association Medal (Gold) self bought by the bearer.

6. Soldiers of Peace Association Medal (Silver) self bought by the bearer,

7. U.N. H.Q. (New York) Service Medal with a number "9" afixed to it, 100% sure its self awarded and self bought,

8. International Volunteer Foreign Service Medal (self bought bling-bling.)

9. 50th Anniversary of the United Nations Medal (self bought bling-bling.)

He also sports 3 Jump wing Insignias.

1. Irish Military Issue Para Wings.

2. U.S. Army Military Para Wings. (with Ranger Scroll)

3. European Military Parachute Association Wings.

He is also very adapt at making up / photo-shoping "award" documents for the self bought awards by adding pictures of himself
to the documents and then scanning them.

He also has a home-made document conferring him as a "RANGER" (just to be accurate, apparently he did do the old style RANGER Course in 1969, however the document he has posted online, despite its appearance is nothing official and the Lt. Colonel's signature is also not an original at the foot of the document.

Truly a sad case.

Connaught Stranger

Wow thats actually quite frightening. Question for you (or anyone) though. I could never understand how guys like this get away with this, or even bother trying at all, when they are active members of a veterans association. Dont the other members pull them up on this or is it a case that they just turn a blind eye or dont care? Surely any veterans group that wants to maintain its integrity would not allow this carry on.

What gives?

Buck
17th October 2013, 18:08
Wow thats actually quite frightening. Question for you (or anyone) though. I could never understand how guys like this get away with this, or even bother trying at all, when they are active members of a veterans association. Dont the other members pull them up on this or is it a case that they just turn a blind eye or dont care? Surely any veterans group that wants to maintain its integrity would not allow this carry on.

What gives?

Sure who do you think "issues" the mingi medals?

Tango_Charlie
17th October 2013, 18:20
Sure who do you think "issues" the mingi medals?

The guy in the post by Connaught Stranger didn't get all those medals from IUNVA though. Surely the members or leaders of a group of vets would pull this guy aside and say ''Ah here... enough is enough jimmy/jack/johnny''

No 7 in that list sounds like an official medal to me so he should at least be pulled up for that and wearing para-wings he never earned. How do these groups expect to be taken seriously?

Buck
17th October 2013, 18:22
The guy in the post by Connaught Stranger didn't get all those medals from IUNVA though. Surely the members or leaders of a group of vets would pull this guy aside and say ''Ah here... enough is enough jimmy/jack/johnny''

No 7 in that list sounds like an official medal to me so he should at least be pulled up for that and wearing para-wings he never earned. How do these groups expect to be taken seriously?

Good question and I don't know is the answer.

To be honest, I think a lot of the vet groups issue mingi medals and allow their members to wear them along with medals awarded for service so I can't see them pulling anyone aside.

Connaught Stranger
17th October 2013, 18:28
Mainly, because Irish Veterans Associations turn a blind eye to it as many of them are doing similar, such as wearing the medal ribbon bar above the medal bar, wearing two Irish military service medals one with the 10 year ribbon and one with the 15 year ribbon, wearing items of official issue (Irish uniform collar tags) on the lapel of the Veterans association jacket, small Irish tri-colour which used to be on the combat shirt and Parka removed and sewn to the arm of the veterans association jacket I have seen a picture where one guy has velcro on his Association Jacket shoulders which can only be used for fixing some type of epaulettes!!!

Until these Associations start to police themselves and enforce a dress code you wont stop it.

Some of the "mingy-medals" listed above in my other post like the 50th Anniversary of the United Nations cost about 90 Euro they are made and sold out of Scandinavia by a Veterans Association there. Its a real money-spinner for such Associations particulrly those bright enough to offer them to Foreign Military Veterans Associations.

Connaught Stranger.

Buck
17th October 2013, 18:31
Mainly, because Irish Veterans Associations turn a blind eye to it as many of them are doing similar, such as wearing the medal ribbon bar above the medal bar, wearing two Irish military service medals one with the 10 year ribbon and one with the 15 year ribbon, wearing items of official issue (Irish uniform collar tags) on the lapel of the Veterans association jacket, small Irish tri-colour which used to be on the combat shirt and Parka removed and sewn to the arm of the veterans association jacket I have seen a picture where one guy has velcro on his Association Jacket shoulders which can only be used for fixing some type of epaulettes!!!

Until these Associations start to police themselves and enforce a dress code you wont stop it.

Connaught Stranger.

And they get verrrrrrrrrrry annoyed when people try to tell them that it looks mildly silly.

Tango_Charlie
17th October 2013, 18:42
That kind of carry-on with wearing of false decorations, surely must discourage people from joining these groups. It would for me anyway. Cant stand that kind of thing.

Buck
17th October 2013, 18:47
That kind of carry-on with wearing of false decorations, surely must discourage people from joining these groups. It would for me anyway. Cant stand that kind of thing.

Same as that. You'd be in the company of fellas who talk shite about the various bits of false tin

Connaught Stranger
17th October 2013, 19:00
Sadly , there are those who say "they are not doing any harm let them alone." however in my opinion they lower the esteem in which genuine military veterans are held, as well as misrepresenting themselves.

Connaught Stranger.

Buck
17th October 2013, 19:07
Sadly , there are those who say "they are not doing any harm let them alone." however in my opinion they lower the esteem in which genuine military veterans are held, as well as misrepresenting themselves.

Connaught Stranger.

Fully agree. Also, it lowers the relevance of actual medals to civvies and the uneducated in the matter. If you see an older fella tipping about in a blue beret with 90,000 medals and 70,000 parachute wings with tabs and flashes all over himself you'll assume he's "been there and done that" if you don't know any better. Compare that with a soldier who has been on a few overseas trips and a service medal...

goc132
22nd October 2013, 13:14
The Irish Government has not taken any Hisrtoy seriously for the last few years with the demise of Regt's & Battalions that are now stood down and no history has been collected and put somewhere to be seen by future generations.
However the recording of Historical Dates is most important and if the ONE supplies a Commerative Centeanary Medal for Members and ex Defence Force members then one little piece of history is recorded by this organisation. No one has forced anyone to purchase this medal but it is available and as we head through the next 10 years of historical dates lets see if History is honoured by the Government etc.
I say well done to the ONE for having vison.

FMolloy
22nd October 2013, 14:59
It's not a piece of history, it's a bauble. A piece of history would be something directly connected with an event or an era; these are akin to those commemorative coins you see advertised on satellite telly. Wearing them alongside legitimately earned medals makes the wearer look like a Walter Mitty.

Buck
22nd October 2013, 15:45
It devalues the worth of medals earned IMO.

If you see a fella with 7 medals and he's done 6 trips to the Leb, one Cyprus, has a service medal (I have no idea if this is a legitimate combination but it's just an example) then the other 4 are mingy medals and are only there by way of purchase. If someone asks what you got them for, would you just say you bought them? I personally think it cheapens medals earned when displayed side by side.

hedgehog
22nd October 2013, 18:44
We are talking about comrades here, we are talking about lads who went before us, lads who show pride in their service.

If anyone on here can point out the section (s) of the law that these be medaled lads are breaking by wearing these medals then I will join wholeheartedly in dragging them down to the Garda station.

And let's stress, these purchased medals are simply commemorating an event, they are NOT CAMPAIGN OR BRAVERY MEDALS.

We have vocal lads on here that don't like the privately purchased medals, and those lads have the right to have that opinion, however the lads with the medals are of the opinion that they have the right to do whatever they want due to the fact that buying and wearing medals to commemorate and show pride in their service is not illegal and they have the same right to hold that opinion.

Maybe those who object to the extra medals and feel so strongly should write actually write to the various representative organisations rather than simply posting here on the matter.

I myself have a few medals from my time in the DF, however I would never comment on or treat a comrade disrespectfully because he privately purchased and wears a commemorative medal.

Buck
22nd October 2013, 18:53
We are talking about comrades here, we are talking about lads who went before us, lads who show pride in their service.

If anyone on here can point out the section (s) of the law that these be medaled lads are breaking by wearing these medals then I will join wholeheartedly in dragging them down to the Garda station.

And let's stress, these purchased medals are simply commemorating an event, they are NOT CAMPAIGN OR BRAVERY MEDALS.

We have vocal lads on here that don't like the privately purchased medals, and those lads have the right to have that opinion, however the lads with the medals are of the opinion that they have the right to do whatever they want due to the fact that buying and wearing medals to commemorate and show pride in their service is not illegal and they have the same right to hold that opinion.

Maybe those who object to the extra medals and feel so strongly should write actually write to the various representative organisations rather than simply posting here on the matter.

I myself have a few medals from my time in the DF, however I would never comment on or treat a comrade disrespectfully because he privately purchased and wears a commemorative medal.

Don't get me wrong Hedge, I'm not personally attacking the lads but I just don't understand why you'd want to wear them together for any other reason than to pad out your own stack. I have the greatest respect for those who went before and I'm delighted that some show pride in their service (feck knows enough don't) but I just don't get it.

Each to their own.

FMolloy
22nd October 2013, 18:58
It's not breaking the law and they're entitled to wear whatever they want, but I must ask if they have that much pride in their service why do they feel the need to buy extra medals? There's plenty of ways to commemorate events without commissioning something which society in general, and the military community in particular, associates with having actually done something.

apod
22nd October 2013, 20:21
Exers who wear medals they didn't earn are not showing pride in their service.They are disrespecting those who genuinely earn theirs.Any muppet can buy a medal.Earning it takes commitment and effort.

hedgehog
22nd October 2013, 20:40
It's something we probably will never agree on lads-

Sluggie
22nd October 2013, 21:07
The Irish Government has not taken any Hisrtoy seriously for the last few years with the demise of Regt's & Battalions that are now stood down and no history has been collected and put somewhere to be seen by future generations.
However the recording of Historical Dates is most important and if the ONE supplies a Commerative Centeanary Medal for Members and ex Defence Force members then one little piece of history is recorded by this organisation. No one has forced anyone to purchase this medal but it is available and as we head through the next 10 years of historical dates lets see if History is honoured by the Government etc.
I say well done to the ONE for having vison.

Hi goc132,

In addition to the medal that you earned from the DF while a member of Oglaigh na hEireann, how many medals do you currently wear on your ONE blazer? How many would you regard as being too many?

hedgehog
22nd October 2013, 21:36
. It's not breaking the law and they're entitled to wear whatever they want, b

Grand- and after that, everything they do is something they are entitled to do.

"but I must ask if they have that much pride in their service why do they feel the need to buy extra medals? "

Because they are as entitled to as much as those who don't agree with them are.


. oning something which society in general, and the military community in particular, associates with having actually done something.

No one within the Military Community ever associate privately bought medals with anything other than self bought medals to commemorate something.
Lads we do realise that it's not privately bought gallantry or campaign medals we are talking about?

BANDIT
22nd October 2013, 22:52
Itend to agree with CS on this issue, Even some of the UN service medals, cyprus?
I have a holy communion medal but i dont wear it, and u will never catch me wearing a beret and blazer ,, too naff, but I do contribute to the fuschia type appeals, i think many of the vet associations look stupid when dressed up, although some do some good work for exers and lets be honest it is different if one has fought rather than just served together, The thing is a civvie sees all the bling and thinks the guy is a super trooper when he actually spent his career dodging in a barracks,,

Buck
22nd October 2013, 23:03
Itend to agree with CS on this issue, Even some of the UN service medals, cyprus?
I have a holy communion medal but i dont wear it, and u will never catch me wearing a beret and blazer ,, too naff, but I do contribute to the fuschia type appeals, i think many of the vet associations look stupid when dressed up, although some do some good work for exers and lets be honest it is different if one has fought rather than just served together, The thing is a civvie sees all the bling and thinks the guy is a super trooper when he actually spent his career dodging in a barracks,,

I don't agree with all of this - if they served at all, they did more than most - but I do agree with the civies seeing all the bling. Gives a bad false impression.

goc132
23rd October 2013, 17:41
I have 30 years service in the FCA, 8 years Service in the Army Reserve, 3years service in Civil Defence and 3 years service in my local Branch ONE. I am proud of all the service I have given to the state and will continue to serve as long as I can.
Any person who has served this state voluntarly or as a paid member will always get my respect and people need our support.
I see the Centeanary Medal as a way of supporting the Fushia appeal and look forward to the President of either our branch or national president presenting people with this medal.
I feel the ONE has stepped into the Governments shoes on this occasion, and I can refer to people wounded on overseas missons who I think are not awarded a medal is wrong but on this occasion I think the ONE are correct and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I have worked hard to record medals for the Irish Defence Forces but I do not agree with some issues but this is not the place I will express these views.
Thank God we still are entitled to our own opinion thats shows we live in a democracy.

Buck
23rd October 2013, 17:52
I have 30 years service in the FCA, 8 years Service in the Army Reserve, 3years service in Civil Defence and 3 years service in my local Branch ONE. I am proud of all the service I have given to the state and will continue to serve as long as I can.
Any person who has served this state voluntarly or as a paid member will always get my respect and people need our support.
I see the Centeanary Medal as a way of supporting the Fushia appeal and look forward to the President of either our branch or national president presenting people with this medal.
I feel the ONE has stepped into the Governments shoes on this occasion, and I can refer to people wounded on overseas missons who I think are not awarded a medal is wrong but on this occasion I think the ONE are correct and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I have worked hard to record medals for the Irish Defence Forces but I do not agree with some issues but this is not the place I will express these views.
Thank God we still are entitled to our own opinion thats shows we live in a democracy.

As I've said, everyone who has served in the DF has done more than most for the country and always gets my utmost respect. As you said, thank God we can have our opinions. We don't always agree but that's fine too.

And I must add, I'm 100% behind the Fuchsia appeal and think that it doesn't get the right kind of recognition.

Sluggie
23rd October 2013, 23:14
I have 30 years service in the FCA, 8 years Service in the Army Reserve, 3years service in Civil Defence and 3 years service in my local Branch ONE. I am proud of all the service I have given to the state and will continue to serve as long as I can.
Any person who has served this state voluntarly or as a paid member will always get my respect and people need our support.
I see the Centeanary Medal as a way of supporting the Fushia appeal and look forward to the President of either our branch or national president presenting people with this medal.
I feel the ONE has stepped into the Governments shoes on this occasion, and I can refer to people wounded on overseas missons who I think are not awarded a medal is wrong but on this occasion I think the ONE are correct and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I have worked hard to record medals for the Irish Defence Forces but I do not agree with some issues but this is not the place I will express these views.
Thank God we still are entitled to our own opinion thats shows we live in a democracy.

I notice that you didn't answer either of my two questions.

BTW I thought your book on DF medals was excellent.

goc132
25th October 2013, 15:19
7293[ATTACH]7294[/]

Slugie sorry for not answring your question the answer is the following:
21 year FCA Medal,
7 year RDF Medal
Civil Defence Special Olympics Medal Honorary
Civil Defence Service in Lourdes Honorary

Thats my lot.

If you then join the ONE or IUNVA you are entitled to wear there medals when due and thats by regulation.

The New RDF Medal will be a bone of contention but if there is a New Name New Unit Flashes,New Brigade Flags etc the Engraving is also different.

JUST ANSWER ONE QUESTION ON THIS ISSUE ARE THESE THE SAME MEDAL YES OR NO ANSWER WILL DO

midnight oil
25th October 2013, 18:41
21 year FCA Medal,
7 year RDF Medal


Surely it is one or the other, not both

trellheim
25th October 2013, 19:06
I was going to say, as someone who got it : ( 27th year this october ! )

7 Years = FCA Medal
12 Years= Bar
21 Years = 2nd Bar with words '21' on it.

Unless you've previous PDF service or Gaisce or speak Irish there isn't much more brass an RDF member can wear besides the nameplate !

BTW - does anyone know where to get more of them, my ribbon is not looking very well atm ?

midnight oil
25th October 2013, 19:11
BTW - does anyone know where to get more of them, my ribbon is not looking very well atm ?

Canteen in McKee used to do them but think they have closed.

I would think any of the medal mounters would have ribbons but I could be wrong as the demand for RDF ribbons would be eh ... small.

DeV
25th October 2013, 19:28
Canteen in McKee used to do them but think they have closed.

I would think any of the medal mounters would have ribbons but I could be wrong as the demand for RDF ribbons would be eh ... small.

If they issued them to those entitled it would help

midnight oil
25th October 2013, 20:15
If they issued them to those entitled it would help

If the units that the eligible pers belonged to it published that they are eligible and then in due course requisitioned them from stores it would help even more.

I know of an RDF Lt Col that thought a Sgt in Bde HQ just had a drawer full of them and asked him for 50 so that he could give them to an RDF GOH that was on the following day. The Sgt apparently checked and none of the 50 pers unit had completed the return to say they were due, some by over 5 years seemingly

Bravo20
25th October 2013, 23:05
And for every one of those stories MO I can tell you 50 of where medal returns were completed but got lost in the process. I got my first medal (only 2 years after I was due) because a Sgt with 21 years took a redress to get his 7 year (the result was we were all issued). I also supervised the preparation of medal returns for a lot of years however they somehow got lost in the process. Strangely enough when our cadre departed and we were cleaning out the offices perparing for handover we found 20 7 year service medals in the CQs drawer. Maybe the Lt Col was on to something.

midnight oil
25th October 2013, 23:09
Maybe the Lt Col was on to something.

perhaps but the process was not administered at unit level so Bde HQ can hardly be held responsible in this case. If the lazy arse cadre didn't bother to administer it then that is a unit matter

Bravo20
25th October 2013, 23:12
True but it is attempting to bring the problem to the attention of a higher command so that maybe someone might ask the question as to why the medal returns were not submitted.

By the way I am well aware that delays in medal issues are not unique to the RDF.

midnight oil
25th October 2013, 23:13
By the way I am well aware that delays in medal issues are not unique to the RDF.

I will send you a PM on that one