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Sabres, Logs and armour

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  • Sabres, Logs and armour

    Is the army doing enough to maintain the correct balance of manouvreability , firepower and protection in its operational constituents?

    For instance is there any move towards the development of a more flexible tactical logistics system as typified in other armies by the use of a mix of heavy goods vehicles and unimog or Pinzgauer type vehicles?

    The issue of LTVs has already been the subject of some debate, but apart from the mention of the risk to troops on current deployment there was relatively little mention of the broader importance of this type of vehicle to the army.

    Finally the issue of Sabres, softskin Jeeps or trucks used as weapons systems, rather than towing .5s in trailers mounting them on the back of a jeep or using a 40mm gun mounted on a truck bed as a roving fire support vehicle.
    These vehicles where generally popularised among guerilla armies or by countries that could not freely purchase arms, but their use by special operations forces and increasingly by elite light units has gone someway to vindicate the speed+firepower=protection formula.
    Should the Irish army be expanding its use fo Sabre type vehicles beyond SOF?
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  • #2
    The SAS had proposed using a truck such as the Unimog or the Steyr to mount heavy weapons such as .50 cals etc.
    This they said, would be a much better platform for special forces use, to date I don't know if any have been deployed on active service!

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    • #3
      Adopting a common platform for all three roles would be a good idea.
      "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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      • #4
        Cough-DURO/EAGLE IV-Cough
        "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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        • #5
          yup
          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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          • #6
            Strategic planners in the DF can't even spell Logistics.
            sigpic
            Say NO to violence against Women

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            My favourite moment was when the
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            red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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            • #7
              Obviously its not as exciting as fighters or paratroopers but I thought this topic given its import might warrant a more enthusiastic discussion.

              For a start what exactly are the roles of LTVs? We know their importance for patrolling in Kosovo and Lebanon style operations but in war fighting scenarios are they largely a cavalry tool or would infantry units rely on them for Liaison and battlefield transport of A/tk and mortar systems?

              What is the gap that the brigade logistics vehicles fill between MAN trucks and FFRs (Apart from the fact there are'nt enough trucks in the Curragh to move a full FAR and its neccessary stores), is the additional offroad capacity essential or nice to have, shoulkd the vehicles be travelling within a kilometer or closer of the FEBA?

              As for UNIMOG sabre vehicles the SAS aren't the first bright sparks to think of that, at one stage apart from armed and MRLs carrying Mogs there where a couple of Bedford flatbeds with six broadsiding Vickers guns on them fighting succesfully against Soviet equipped FAPLA and Cuban forces in Angola.
              "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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              • #8
                Dont get upset that interest is Poor CQ....Imagine how I feel in Naval?


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #9
                  Imagine how much busier the NS section would be if people appreciated the tactical and strategic implementation of logistics and firepower instead, being obsessed with shininess.
                  "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                  • #10
                    So are we getting ltv's or what and what about the the aml 20/90 replacements?

                    ps thing, the SAS did use a Unimog in gw1 but not armed they have now gone for a supacat designed wagon to replace the land rover.t's about the same size but with twice the gvw.
                    Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                    Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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                    • #11
                      I've read in a mag that the DF are replacing the Man 14.240 with a 6+6 and they are getting more iveco ASTRA DROPS
                      Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                      Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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                      • #12
                        Add Unimog/Scarab to that list...
                        I wonder if we could fit a 40mm from the L-60s on the back of an adapted mog?
                        "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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