View Full Version : Sabres, Logs and armour

28th January 2004, 01:16
Is the army doing enough to maintain the correct balance of manouvreability , firepower and protection in its operational constituents?

For instance is there any move towards the development of a more flexible tactical logistics system as typified in other armies by the use of a mix of heavy goods vehicles and unimog or Pinzgauer type vehicles?

The issue of LTVs has already been the subject of some debate, but apart from the mention of the risk to troops on current deployment there was relatively little mention of the broader importance of this type of vehicle to the army.

Finally the issue of Sabres, softskin Jeeps or trucks used as weapons systems, rather than towing .5s in trailers mounting them on the back of a jeep or using a 40mm gun mounted on a truck bed as a roving fire support vehicle.
These vehicles where generally popularised among guerilla armies or by countries that could not freely purchase arms, but their use by special operations forces and increasingly by elite light units has gone someway to vindicate the speed+firepower=protection formula.
Should the Irish army be expanding its use fo Sabre type vehicles beyond SOF?

The Thing
28th January 2004, 13:21
The SAS had proposed using a truck such as the Unimog or the Steyr to mount heavy weapons such as .50 cals etc.
This they said, would be a much better platform for special forces use, to date I don't know if any have been deployed on active service!

28th January 2004, 13:38
Adopting a common platform for all three roles would be a good idea.

28th January 2004, 14:24

28th January 2004, 14:46

28th January 2004, 19:01
Strategic planners in the DF can't even spell Logistics.

31st January 2004, 20:16
Obviously its not as exciting as fighters or paratroopers but I thought this topic given its import might warrant a more enthusiastic discussion.

For a start what exactly are the roles of LTVs? We know their importance for patrolling in Kosovo and Lebanon style operations but in war fighting scenarios are they largely a cavalry tool or would infantry units rely on them for Liaison and battlefield transport of A/tk and mortar systems?

What is the gap that the brigade logistics vehicles fill between MAN trucks and FFRs (Apart from the fact there are'nt enough trucks in the Curragh to move a full FAR and its neccessary stores), is the additional offroad capacity essential or nice to have, shoulkd the vehicles be travelling within a kilometer or closer of the FEBA?

As for UNIMOG sabre vehicles the SAS aren't the first bright sparks to think of that, at one stage apart from armed and MRLs carrying Mogs there where a couple of Bedford flatbeds with six broadsiding Vickers guns on them fighting succesfully against Soviet equipped FAPLA and Cuban forces in Angola.

Goldie fish
31st January 2004, 20:30
Dont get upset that interest is Poor CQ....Imagine how I feel in Naval?

31st January 2004, 20:57
Imagine how much busier the NS section would be if people appreciated the tactical and strategic implementation of logistics and firepower instead, being obsessed with shininess.

mutter nutter
5th February 2004, 01:20
So are we getting ltv's or what and what about the the aml 20/90 replacements?

ps thing, the SAS did use a Unimog in gw1 but not armed they have now gone for a supacat designed wagon to replace the land rover.t's about the same size but with twice the gvw.

mutter nutter
13th February 2004, 16:24
I've read in a mag that the DF are replacing the Man 14.240 with a 6+6 and they are getting more iveco ASTRA DROPS :)

5th March 2004, 00:43
Add Unimog/Scarab to that list...
I wonder if we could fit a 40mm from the L-60s on the back of an adapted mog?