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  • Enhancing Naval "Warriorness"

    Since I've talking about landbased "Sabre" vehicles in the Army section, I thought it might be worth discussing the possibilities and merits of some low level and improvised enhancements of the Naval services fighting capabilities.
    Before anyone starts I'm not suggestion we make our own SSMs or try and take on a well equipped Naval force with some macho looking PVs.

    However as HPT Murphy highlighted during the Niamh's deployment to Liberia the PVs are very vulnerable, I was wondering what could be done to enhance their survivability against poorly equipped or irregular forces?
    The possible roles could be anti-piracy patrols or the landing of an advance party in the event of no safe airfield being available despite an otherwise permissive entry, or fire support for landing parties going up against Unita regular battalion style opposition.
    1.Would it be as simple as bolting some M2s, Mk19s, M82s etc to the deck?
    2. Could ATGMs be used from ship against ship or shore targets, similarly can MANPADS be safely deployed on a ship to protect against weaker air threats like MiG-17s or Helicopters, armed transports.
    3. If a 120mm MRLS can be deployed on a UNIMOG truck could it be employed for ship to shore batteries with a minimum of modification to the ship?
    4. Whats the potential for the arming of RIBs or RHIBS WMIK style? are there other more suitable platforms for anti-piracy, raiding or COIN missions.

    5. Finally would NS personnel actually be willing to undertake these types of missions? and would army bods be needed to operate the additional weapons systems?
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  • #2
    the problme associated with affixing supplementary wepons to a ship is that the ship requires strenghtening in the required area and this may not always be feasible due to original design features. the recoil of weapons create stresses on the structure which can be enormous. the recoil of the 20mm Oelikon was 7 tons per square foot and as a result they couldn't be fitted to Deirdre..........
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • #3
      Perhaps additional GPMGs or That grenade launcher thing is feasable as a defence measure. Same applies to RIBs etc. I saw the Yanks in the Gulf Using a 50 cal mounted to the Towing eye.
      Fail to prepare....prepare to FAIL!

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      • #4
        What about the heli deck on eithne would that be stressed enough to take say a Valkyrie battery?
        Would smaller calibre weapons like the Gau 19 or lower recoil weapons such as 25mm chain guns present less of a problem?
        TOW missiles could also be of use in anti piracy operations, could weapons like these and MANPADS like stingers be used on an adhoc basis, i.e. just fired by some punters on deck?
        "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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        • #5
          Stingers and most "manpads" have backblast....Ships as a rule usually have external plumbing and cabling. The two do not go well together.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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          • #6
            Could you seriously see a day when the Irish Navy resort to TOW-ing (scuse the pun) a spanish trawler or mad iceland fishing vessel off the surface of the north atlantic!!! would be a nice capability tho :D
            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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            • #7
              I was just wondering about what the NS thinks about arming it's ships, does it whant to upgrade to full fighting ships or is it content with the situation as it is
              Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

              Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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              • #8
                Id think they were happy enough as is, I cant remember the NS ever having to use their weapons on a ship?? please do correct me if im wrong goldie!

                I would love to see them a situation where someday in the future they may be supporting our peacekeepers (for example if peace keepers had a base camp near to a shoreline somewhere), and if requested, they would be sufficiently armed to provide fire support if the soldiers were under attack.

                Also having enough teeth to patrol said coastline without the fear of missile attack or attack by other craft would be great too.
                "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                • #9
                  Your memory must be short. The naval service have on many occasions used ships armament,both primary and secondary on other vessels,that were either refusing to comply with instructions,or who had put boarding parties or other vessels in danger.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                  • #10
                    Didn't they let off some warning shots during the "tuna war"

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                    • #11
                      Does anyone remember them putting a 25 pounder (Bofors PV1110 90mm Recoilless Gun) on a minesweeper(?) when chasing a Russian factory ship - hate to think what would have happened if they fired it.

                      IAS

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                      • #12
                        Wait till HPT sees this......


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • #13
                          IAS,a 25 pounder and a 90mm RCL are two totally different weapons.
                          The shot fired at the russians back in those days from a minesweeper was indeed fired from a Bofors gun,but it was the main armament of the 40mm.
                          August 1974,and LE Grainne,with Lt Cdr J Jordan in command arrested the Viktor Khudyakov 2 miles inside the 12 mile limit,and at first ignored signals to stop and Haul her gear. 2 rifle rounds were fired overhead,and the vessel began hauling.

                          As Grainne was escorting her to harbour the russian reversed his course. A round from the Bofors brought her to a halt,outside the 12 mile limit. The Nav officer from Grainne(Jim Neill)boarded with instructions to head for the Skippers office. When he heard firing he was to duck for cover... Grainne opened fire with rifles on the black ball used to indicate a ship is at anchor. The noise was unmistakable,and the sight of the Irish boarding officer cowering on the deck as his own ship fired on him was enough for the Russian skipper to have a change of heart.
                          Interestingly,when the owners of the vessel appealed their conviction,they were represented in court by Mary Robinson.

                          No 90s though,and no 25 pounders either....though its possible that there would have been a few puzzled faces in the 80s as the PVs headed for Lebanon with a 90mm gun as secondary armament...still attached to the White panhard AML armoured car which was lashed to the deck
                          Fail to prepare....prepare to FAIL!

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                          • #14
                            Sorry, I left out the word "or" within the brackets.

                            The story I was trying relate was from newspaper reports maybe 20+ years ago and they claimed (if I remember correctly) that an 87.6mm 25 pounder was flown out to a Naval vessel to give extra firepower. The reference to the RCL was that if something was flown out to be placed on board a vessel I guessed it would have to be recoiless like the Bofors (my assumption was that firing the said 25 pounder would do more damage to the vessel it was on than anything it may hit - or maybe not).

                            IAS

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by morpheus
                              Could you seriously see a day when the Irish Navy resort to TOW-ing (scuse the pun) a spanish trawler or mad iceland fishing vessel off the surface of the north atlantic!!! would be a nice capability tho :D
                              Try reading the post properly before you make this kind of statement.

                              The issue is whether current vessels could be equipped with sufficient defensive firepower to operate in a Liberia type environment without the high levels of risk from unconventional attacks.
                              "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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