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View Full Version : Tanks in Liberia... did this happen in the end?



morpheus
14th April 2004, 16:15
I know this is old news but...

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2003/10/12/story116972.asp

Irish troops may request tanks for Liberia mission


10:06:14 AM

Defence Minister Michael Smith has warned not to underestimate the risks of the Irish Army’s latest mission in Liberia.

Irish troops will be part of a rapid-reaction force in aid of UN troops who get into difficulties in the war-torn African nation.

It is reported the Irish Army may deploy tanks for the first time in the peacekeeping mission.

It is thought that the group of officers travelling to Liberia may request Scorpion tanks as necessary equipment to ensure their protection.

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Tanks... :rolleyes: ... did this ever happen?

surely the scorpions arent equipped to operate in the Liberian environment?

Are the army sufficiently equipped with spares etc to set the scorpions up to operate under these harsh conditions?

Come-quickly
14th April 2004, 16:26
On the first question no they didnt as for the second, I dunno.

Come-quickly
14th April 2004, 16:52
SSSsshhh they'll hear you:o

Fouga2
14th April 2004, 16:55
They are CVRT or CRVT.

In other words just Recce Vehicles and if they are sneaky enough will fire a Shot and dash home like there arse in on Fire !:-patriot:

CTU
14th April 2004, 18:36
Originally posted by kermit
and finally, Scorpions are not Tanks...

I think Alvis Vickers would disagre with you there


Scorpion is a highly sophisticated reconnaissance vehicle and light tank.

http://www.vickersdefence.co.uk/products/product_details.cfm?product_id=17

Or

http://www.vickersdefence.co.uk

Fianóglach
14th April 2004, 21:02
TANK:Armoured fignting vehicle moving on tracks !
(Good enough for me)

combatlogo
14th April 2004, 21:06
Recommend you buy a new dictionary - would you classify the following as tanks - BRDM/BMP/Bradleys/USMC AAV's etc etc???

Fianóglach
14th April 2004, 21:08
Yes they are tracks

combatlogo
14th April 2004, 22:13
Negative, Ghostrider - they're APC's/IFV's, most definitely not tanks.

Barry
14th April 2004, 22:49
Originally posted by Fouga2
They are CVRT or CRVT.

In other words just Recce Vehicles and if they are sneaky enough will fire a Shot and dash home like there arse in on Fire !:-patriot:
Unless they're really unlucky, in which case they actually will have their arse on fire :D

yooklid
14th April 2004, 22:59
Either way, Vickers seem to be adding to the confusion by calling it "a light tank" but also saying variations of it are "Command Vehicle, Armoured Personnel Carrier , Anti Tank Guided Weapon Vehicle and Ambulance and Recovery Vehicle."

It does everything!

CTU
14th April 2004, 23:18
Well the Oxford Dictionary says a tank is:

3. a heavy armoured fighting vehicle carrying guns and moving on a continuous articulated metal track.

A scorpion is heavy, its armoured, its a fighting vehicle, it carries guns and it moves on a continuous articlated metal track.

In other words its a tank.

combatlogo
14th April 2004, 23:25
Scorpion may be a tank, but not a v. effective one.

The Thing
14th April 2004, 23:40
If an RPG can take out an M1 A1 Abrams tank in Iraq then a 76mm or a 90mm that can go at 60 miles an hour on an armoured platform is effective enough!
A scorpion is a light tank that is used in the recce role, I think it's the fire power and tracks that make it a light tank more so than the weight.
In all fairness the 1st tank squadern should have main battle tanks, the role of reece should be the Cav units not the tank squadern!

combatlogo
14th April 2004, 23:43
An RPG is incapable of taking out an M1A1 99% of the time - Can't speak to 3rd ID but 1st MARDIV lost one tank during the war last year due to enemy fire... not going into the details.

Steamy Window
14th April 2004, 23:47
what use would MBTs be to the Df?
UN missions, you may say, but how do we get them there?
eight years ago challenger 2s cost stg£6 million each. imagine what that is now.
how many, in your fantasy army, should we have?
wouldnt they be too heavy for our roads anyway? isnt an M1A2 over 50 tons?

ex pat 007
15th April 2004, 00:13
The division here at bragg is about to recieve the new XM-8 Armored Gun System.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m8-ags.htm

it is lvad capable (low velocity air capable) and easily deployable being able to fit one on a C-130.While not a tank it will add significant ( and welcome) firepower to any airborne task force. At 19.25 tons it shouldnt be too hard on the roads

Steamy Window
15th April 2004, 00:23
but that isnt an MBT, instead its a replacement for the sheridan

The Thing
15th April 2004, 00:40
We should have 14, and there are many many different types of main battle tanks that we could employ.

Have you ever heard of a tank transporter?
Have you ever heard of buying second hand equipment?
Do you know why we bought the Scorpions in the first place?
Do you know the role of a "Tank" unit?
How did we transport our APC's overseas?
What protection is there for our APC's when we deploy them overseas?

The US has had more than one tank knocked out by RPG's at this stage we must be into double figures

ex pat 007
15th April 2004, 00:47
Originally posted by stameen soldier
but that isnt an MBT, instead its a replacement for the sheridan

right !
its my 2 cents on the procurement of non-mbt wpn systems for the rhetorical fantasy army being discussed by you previously.

combatlogo
15th April 2004, 00:49
The US has had more than one tank knocked out by RPG's at this stage we must be into double figures

Nowhere near.

ForkTailedDevil
15th April 2004, 09:17
Maybe not into double figures but those RPGs are causing trouble for the tanks.Rumours say there is some sort of new warhead available in small numbers.One of the Abrams knocked out in Baghdad had a pencil sized hole from one side to the other that disabled it engine and some of the electronics.They blamed an rpg for it, saying it was a lucky shot but with a Abrams armour this can't be likely.Must be some new form of shaped charge or something with a dense but very small penetrator like depleted uranium or similar.

Steamy Window
15th April 2004, 13:13
the sheridan was an air-droppable tank, designed to be parachuted out of transport aircraft.
does that make it an MBT?


Have you ever heard of a tank transporter?
yes
Have you ever heard of buying second hand equipment?
yes
Do you know why we bought the Scorpions in the first place?
pray do tell:D
Do you know the role of a "Tank" unit?
yes
How did we transport our APC's overseas?
ships?
What protection is there for our APC's when we deploy them overseas?
their armour and their own weapons. i doubt the governnment is going to send our troops into a situation where wed need MBTs, money is the only thing that seems to matter to them. where have UN forces used MBTs in a peacekeeping/peace enforcement situation in recent yeasr?

why should we have 14 MBTs? please explain your rationale behing getting exactly 14. why not 15, or 16, or 17?
whats the point in replacing the scorpions one-for-one with MBTs?

yellowjacket
15th April 2004, 14:46
And I thought I was pedantic: :)

"Tank" isn't the same as "Main Battle Tank"

The Scorpion, though its proper designation is Combat Vehicle Reconaissance (Tracked), also fits the description of a light tank. It's certainly no MBT.

There was talk of sending the Scorpions, but it was felt they would not be suitable without the upgrade that was planned for them, incidentally, this upgrade has been postponed due to funding difficulties.

We have had several MBT threads here before, given the current availability of surplus MBTs from other countries at silly prices.
http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=992

hptmurphy
15th April 2004, 21:57
Relatively speaking as tanks go....its not heavy

Its about as armoured as a cornflake box

soldiers carrry guns and are not tanks

If you are so happy to describe it as a tank....how come it is never deployed in tanklike formations and all its operators deploy it as a recce vehicle...what ever it it is its not a bleedin Tank:D

Barry
15th April 2004, 23:47
Originally posted by hptmurphy
soldiers carrry guns and are not tanks
Dunno about you, but I have legs, not a "continuous articulated metal track"