View Full Version : Eithne's Deltas

17th February 2003, 21:39

Goldie fish
18th February 2003, 00:00
Thats an excellent Idea. Hopefully,once it is approved on Eithne,the same will happen with the Older PVs? Looking at the older PVs recently,the seariders and their Effer Cranes seem out of place.The Caley Davits and the Delta RIBs are light years ahead of the Seariders,which in turn were light years ahead of the Geminis. No doubt Murf will provide us with some horror story about using the Seariders From Eithne. It still looks like a bit of a drop to main deck level tho.
http://homepage.eircom.net/~pigincharge/upe7043_small.JPG (http://homepage.eircom.net/~pigincharge/upe7043.JPG)

Whatever happened to the Liberty Boats anyway?
This is what you should be seeing on Eithne soon if A/Tels story comes to life.
http://www.iol.ie/~forsacosanta/Niamh.Portrib_small.JPG (http://www.iol.ie/~forsacosanta/Niamh.stbdrib.JPG) http://www.iol.ie/~forsacosanta/Niamh.stbdrib_small.JPG (http://www.iol.ie/~forsacosanta/Niamh.Portrib.JPG)


18th February 2003, 12:22
Yes I've got the grandaddy of all horror stories.

Friday 13th feb 1987 was returning from castletownbere having collected boarding party from tramler Grampian Admiral dtained off clare the previous day,Coxn was Kieran Coniry Iwas Bowman.To counterbalance the weight of the boarding party in the stern Iwas wedged in the bow facing aft.
There was a 6-7kt current running out of the bay.as we rounded the heading returning to lawerences Cove she kicked up he bow in the swell.

Result compression fracture of vertabrae....three weeks in bantry hospital and 13 weeks sick leave.No Helo available for airlift as it had to make a forced landing on the beach in Tramore Co. Waterford due to fuel problems(ironic).
Three weeks previuosly Chippy Molloy had broken his leg while getting over the Guard rail in heavy seas when acting as bowman again.....Ordinary seamen were expendable.

loads of good stories too.****ing engine tilt never worked many a prop shaft sheared.Ever try paddling a searider with 10 gardai on board?

18th February 2003, 13:18
Just had a look at your photos murph, shocking haircuts man.

18th February 2003, 23:32
going to post some more photos soon so be prepared.

19th February 2003, 02:06
hptmurphy - i didnt know of that incident, that would have been one of the navalised dauphins. i don't know of the exact details surrounding the fatal crash and i certainly don't want to bring up any bad memories, but was the dauphin which crash landed that terrible day one of the naval varients which i read - were fitted with crash proof tanks?

it's just one of those what if's thats stayed with me since the crash, along with the story of how some ****ers robbed one of the crew mens family home during his funeral, its something that still makes the blood boil to this day. i don't think they were ever caught... which was lucky for them :mad:

Goldie fish
19th February 2003, 02:21
244 and 245 were the Navalised versions. They are recognisable as Navalised by the Harpoon on the underside of the fuselage,between the main undercarriage wheels. 248 was the aircraft involved in the tragic crash in Tramore. The only ones to forget it seems are the Government.

I saw 246 Coughing her guts up in Derry airport a few years ago before she was due to do a flying display..sounded(and smelt) like one of those vintage tractors...

I was in a similar seating position when doing my RIB course last year,the instructor(an RNLI Cox) warned me of exactly the same thing. It still seems like a safer place to be in rough seas in a smaller rib tho. The New Atlantic 75 used by the RNLI has built in Ballast tanks,to keep the bow down.
The lads on Niamh would be happy to dump their Sea Rider,now that they have discovered the Delta. I am told the "saddles" beat sitting on the Hypalon tubes any day,and you have plenty of solid things to hang onto(or bump into..)..:-patriot:

http://www.iol.ie/~forsacosanta/p52davitport_small.JPG (http://www.iol.ie/~forsacosanta/p52davitport.JPG)

19th February 2003, 14:54
248 was the helo involved in the fatal crash in tramore.
the one Irefer to was DH245 which was dispatched on the day of my incident but because of a fuel related incident made a precautionary emergency landing on the beach on tramore.The incidents are unrelated all though I must say that the Air Corps were never happy about accepting fuel from the Eithne as the supply had a long history of contamination.
Water can be carried in suspended form in JetA1 Jet B or Avtur and is invisible to the naked eye and is only detectable by drawing off a sample prior to use and passing it through a paper filter which turns blue if water is present.This test must be done daily to conform with international regulations regarding the delivery of jet fuel,The test regarding 100LL or avgas or mogas is quiet different as it in volves imersing a paint like substance in the fuel and again if it changes colour it indicates contamination.
Water contamination in Jet fuel is quite serious as the turbine engine requires a constant pure fuel source or the ignition sorce(cracker box) will simply go out.Hence the heat source is removed combustion fails to take place and the engine stops ....crash.
Condensation is the primary cause of water contamination and is cause by varience in temperature.The Eithnes Heli fuel tanks are in close proximity to the No2 engine room thenc the variation in temperature.This was one of the primary reasons for the short durations of life of the dauphin aboard the ship...a design fault in the ship not the helo.
Jet fuel that is contaminated cannot be returned to storage and cannot not be reprocessesed so it is sold on to the consumer at highly inflated prices in the form of Kerosene....home heating oil........!988 prices were17p per litre of JETA1 retail kerosene was double this.

All turbine fuels are a derivative of Diesel and are more purely refined but can be used in diesel engines providing additives are used.

Older turbines used JET B as this had a petroleum additive which decreased ignition temperatures but increased wear on the turbine as the operatine temperature is higher.

Deduce what you will from all that.

20th February 2003, 14:49
The dauphin crash in tramore in 1999 was contributed to by a navigation error as the crew could not find the airport due to fog.They did not have enough fuel to head for the alternate airfield as flight planned which as in the case of all aer corp flights is Baldonnel.
subsequent in vestigation at the crash site dicovered that there were traces of un burnt fuel which would indicate that there was fuel in the tanks on impact. So fuel starvation was not the primary cause of the crash.
JetA1 needs to be heated to in excess of 24 degrees to ingnite and will not burn unless compressed.
It is nit the fuel itself that burns but the vapors given off in contact with air.So from that it is possible to drop a match in to a container of jetfuel and it won't ignite providing the amount of fuel in the container exceeds the amount of air and it has been preheated to in excess of 24 degrees.This would suggest that any fire was a result of the fuel being exposed to air following the impact and not was not a contributory factor in the actual crash.
On the other hand Avgas100LL will ignite at at minus 40degress and burns at 400 feet per second and does not require preheating or compression all though the sme is true regarding vapours ..ie. if the percentage of liquid fuel exceeds the air content combustion will not be supported and the heat source will be extinguished.

In the case of the manchester 737 fire a cobustion chamber fan failed explosively sending debris through the engine nacelle which puncture a fuel tank which sprayed fuel on to a sufficently heated surface(the already turning turbine) which resulted in a fuel tank fire.The Captain attempted to taxi off the main runway into a cross wind which drove the fire into the cabin.
In his comunications with the control tower the captain only mentioned that he had an'incident ' and never mentioned the word fire.It was only an assistant in the control tower made the alarm call to the fire services when he noticed the smoke coming from the cabin as the aircraft turned...this was a three minute delay.The airport fire services ran out of firefighting media after five minutes .....the local authority fire service turned up minutes later 57 people died the evacuation was a disaster and only two hours after the whole incident began was the fire actually put out.

Nasty thing fires and flying machines.......now what was that about seariders? soreeee

Goldie fish
20th February 2003, 15:01
Never mind murf...Interesting as always..Was in Tramore myself yesterday. I didnt do the Dunes,it was too late,but The Coastguard heli was overhead as I studied the (vandalism free) monument to the airmen.Good on the locals for respecting it. So rare these days.

Coastguard have a decent setup at the airport these days,but the place is still a hole.They should never have been sent there.

What became of the Naval Liberty Boats anyway? Why were they dispensed with? They must have been handy for going ashore when at anchor in Castletownbere..

20th February 2003, 15:45
Two types of rigid boats were used in the past, Liberty boats and boarding boats. These are distinguishable because one has a superstructure and the other does not.
I am aware of two boarding boats, one is on the hard in the basin and looks in good condition. The other is in use by one of the NSR units.

They have a 2 cylinder diesel engine that is started with a manual crank handle and once you get them going they are even harder to stop. You've got to pull the pullstop until the engine is completly silent or it will kick back to life. They make a distinct sound very like a dumper or a cement mixer.

The NSR unit that have one affectionately call theirs the Chuga-Chuga.

20th February 2003, 23:19
Liberty boats were lowered on falls but boarding boats were rarely used when then Ribs came along these were lowered and falls and launched using 'robinsons'disengaging" tricky apparatus to us e and only the most expierinced could ever use it

Goldie fish
28th February 2003, 03:19
Had a close look at Eithne below in Cob-h yesterday...she isnt the shiny new ship that I witnessed being launched all those years ago,but her appearance could be summed up as "Hard Working". The knocks,dents and scrapes tell stories of her activities that go largely unnoticed. What happened to the stern? Looks like somebody rammed her on the port stern quarter..the Bulwarks are a bit off.
The 3 Ribs sit just forward of the twin funnels,in an almost impossibly high location.,atop the Hangar. It seems like an awfully long distance for the boat to travel before it sees the waterline..

The gap where the gravity Davits used to be is obvious,but could need some rearranging before the Caley Davits could be fitted.Watertight doors moved (again),ACU intakes , etc Every time I see her,more of the heli handling equipment is missing.... Latest absence I noticed was the aid to landing,which provided a kind of artificial horizon,between the funnells,murf may know what I am on about..either way its gone..

I hope she gets a good lick of paint before she goes foreign this year. When you compare her to the P50s she shows every hour of her age.

28th February 2003, 05:58
we were leaving the quy wall at Sir John Rogersons quay in 1987 and somebody forgot to release the forespring and as a result the arse got bashed sometime in 1987 ...had an Indian nay Commander on board bet he was impressed.

Goldie fish
6th April 2003, 15:35
The old girl is in the Graving Dock in Cork Dockyard(her place of birth) at the moment,getting a much deserved cleanup,her inflatable rafts are away for survey,the 3 sea riders are still atop the hangar,whose door was open fully for a change.
Last time I saw her dry was before her launch all those years ago,and though her props are no longer as shiny as they used to be,they are still pretty ding free. Her anodes are also pretty rotten,always a good sign. Her Bilge keel is damn solid looking in fairness though,a testament to the overworkmanship of the Verolme Workers. Took a few nice photos..unfortunately they are number 8 in a 26 film,so expect them when you see them..
No evidence of the single point launchers,although there is a big gap where the Falls/Davits used to be

Anyone know when she is heading East?

8th April 2003, 22:14
heading east...?

Goldie fish
9th April 2003, 00:13
Da Komrade!...East..to the Marsh where Peter Built a city(Not cork..that was Finnbar):flagwave:

11th April 2003, 02:07
eithne's going on june 6th i think it is.
gonna try get on it myself, should be some trip!!!

Goldie fish
27th February 2004, 23:47
Somebody asked me about this earlier this week.

28th February 2004, 20:30
asked you about what....? there' s enough info here to write a book on the bloody thing. The thing sahped like a 't' on the hanger roof was a horizon indicator similar to PAPIs (PRECISION APPROACH PATH INDICATORS ) used in regular airports.....the lenses change colours at various angles off attack during the approach.

Goldie fish
29th February 2004, 22:43
They asked me about the Dauphn Fuel contamination.
Whatever it is,that T thingy is gone.

1st March 2004, 11:01
Interesting to hear that....why would somebody want to know about fuel contamination in a Dauphin.....?

Secondly why would they want to remove that particular piece of equipment as it is only relevant to ship board use?

Goldie fish
29th June 2004, 10:44
The Caley davits,with the single point launch system,have been fitted,after a bit of redesign of the main deck. No boats fitted yet.

Best I can do at short notice. I'll try to break into the base at some stage for a better photo...

Goldie fish
1st July 2004, 11:50
Got in there last night,with the disadvantage of an extremly bright evening sun, hence the glare.
I expect her next patrol will be with the new Boats. A far superior arrangement which will extend her capabilities somewhat.

Remember Folks,you heard it here first.

Now what about filling that flat deckspace astern with something like a helicopter?

Goldie fish
1st July 2004, 11:56


2nd July 2004, 04:09
should make launching the SRs a far more safer task.

Did your mother not tell you that hanging around naval bases will give you a bad name.!:D

2nd July 2004, 04:33
I thought you were not permitted to take photos on military installations?

2nd July 2004, 04:46
And that bothers us!...go on do it !

Goldie fish
2nd July 2004, 08:33
The photo was not taken from military property :)

Goldie fish
3rd July 2004, 10:56
For those of you who are still unsure what we are on about, click HERE (http://www.caley.co.uk/Pages/davit.htm)

Then click HERE (http://www.caley.co.uk/Pages/flashdavit.html) :)


Goldie fish
6th July 2004, 08:46
On closer inspection over the weekend,the Caley davits have only been fitted to the Starboard side,but the deck has been modified to accept them on the port side.
The capabilities of Eithne will be greatly increased with this modification,as she will be capable of launching 4 boats simultaneously,theoretically at least.

If she only had a helideck that was being used.....

Goldie fish
18th July 2004, 11:03
Eithne is currently in Cobh,for anyone in the area.

Goldie fish
29th July 2004, 22:46
Photos showing the Strenghtened Deck where the Davits will be located. It will be september at the earliest before this work is complete.
The Davit on the Starboard side is visible but has yet to be connected to the ships electrical system.

30th July 2004, 02:10
Got a very close inspection of the system last week ..looks good ...wonder how long before the boats are deployed. The riders have given great service but had their pitfalls as well.....ouch my back!:D

Goldie fish
24th August 2004, 00:54
What is the capacity of these RIBs does anyone know? I saw them crossing the harbour last weekend and they appeared pretty crowded,while at the same time not struggling under the weight.

24th August 2004, 05:40
About ten is a safe figure .....but they are not strictly rated for anybody without seats..primarily at the boat cx'ns discression depending on sea state.

Goldie fish
18th September 2004, 08:30
I believe Caley have a pretty Good working relationship with Halmatic.;)
Note the framework behind the helmsman for single point lift......

22nd September 2004, 10:02
One of these maybe?:D


Goldie fish
12th February 2005, 11:06
After some delays,the job is done,and the boats,Deltas with inboard (Z Drive) engines look very well indeed.

Photos later...hopefully

Goldie fish
12th February 2005, 18:19
After some delays,the job is done,and the boats,Deltas with inboard (Z Drive) engines look very well indeed.

Photos later...hopefully


14th February 2005, 13:06
Its stilla long way down from that boat deck! :biggrin:

Goldie fish
14th February 2005, 20:34

We've come a long way from the Gemini...

15th February 2005, 14:19
Yeah ...but are we any better off.....gave up the gemini and took in women.......... :mad:

Test Pilot
6th February 2008, 11:05
loads of good stories too.****ing engine tilt never worked many a prop shaft sheared.Ever try paddling a searider with 10 gardai on board?

Murph, I always took you to be a bright guy - why didn't you get the Gardai to row! :biggrin:

6th February 2008, 13:15
Because they were too busy being sick over the side,,,,,,

6th February 2008, 13:59
Yeah ...but are we any better off.....gave up the gemini and took in women.......... :mad:

That's because Geminis and women don't mix. An ex-sailor buddy of mine told me a story about being in a gemini one day with a couple of female sailors. The craft started to flood and when they investigated they found a scrunchy in the self-bailing hole.:biggrin:

6th February 2008, 20:52
Geminis didn't have self bailers..but seariders did....