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B Inman
29th April 2004, 17:29
The following article was published in the March/April edition of AONTAS the magazine of the Civil and Public Services Union.

New Revenue Patrol Vessel

An 18m Cutter Class Revenue Patrol vessel is currently under construction in Finland and is expected to be delivered to the Revenue Maritime Unit (RMU) based is Cork in May or June of this year. The RMU (Cutter) has quarters for up to eight staff, is capable of long range patrolling and will have a national remit.

The RMU (Cutter) is seen by the Revenue as a significant enhancement to their enforcement capability and a major increase in the commitment of resources by the office in the fight against illegal trafficking of drugs and contraband goods.


Training will be provided at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources in Castletownbere in Cork.






My knowledge of matters Naval is sadly lacking but I wonder if this development has implications for the Naval Service ?

posiedon
29th April 2004, 18:57
not when u look at its skipper

Goldie fish
29th April 2004, 21:19
Wasn't the garda Boat also Built in Finland? Though Targa's largest is 12m I think...

www.targa.fi

Goldie fish
3rd May 2004, 14:32
Apparently it is being built by Tyovene OY in Finland.

http://www.tyovene.com/

Harry
4th May 2004, 20:21
No the "Colm na Cora" (Garda Boat) was built or at least made operational by Wessex Marine in the UK. Anyone have any pics of the new vessel, info on it's livery, armaments, power etc. And could anyone tell me if the RMU's are armed?

Goldie fish
4th May 2004, 20:51
Garda boat is a Targa,wessex marine are the agents in the British isles visit their website at www.wessexmarine.co.uk where you will see

We are proud of our long-established role as sole distributor of the Targa range for the UK, Ireland and the Channel Islands

....why o why do you feel the need to correct me when it is well known that in these matters I am never wrong?

Just like saying"my Fiat is not italian..it was built at the Mad Cow roundabout"
http://www.breitenstein.fi/professional/t31mk2police.jpg

The only details we have on the revenue boat is what speculation you see here,though it is worth mentioning that the second HM Customs boat is fitted with a machine gun mounted forward of the bridge.
Going by the info we have so far,I imagine it'll look something like this.
<img src="http://www.tyovene.com/pics/north.jpg" width = 500" >
By the way,this is the current HM Customs cutter which would have a similar role to our Revenue craft.
http://www.vtplc.com/images/original/927.jpg

Harry
5th May 2004, 01:05
I know but I was only slightly wrong. The Finnish plant probably made a non-descript Targa 45, Wessex marine put on the go faster stripes and bells and whistles etc.
Your FIAT was made at the mad cow roundabout....strange??, are you sure it wasn't made in Italy.
You never answered my final question, are the RMU's armed or can you say?

FMolloy
5th May 2004, 19:59
I know but I was only slightly wrong.

There's a big difference between who sells the boat & who makes it.

Stinger
6th May 2004, 17:27
Why do the revenue services operate their own fleet. would it not be better for the navy to do it and for it to be tasked on revenue missions. This might reduce some of the duplicity involved. A similiaar situation would the air corps flying the Garda planes

Barndoor
18th May 2004, 02:23
Hello all,
Just to throw a spanner in the works here, something thats been buggin me for ages. Does anyone remember reading in Magill & the Phoenix about the famous 120 million punts drug haul in Kildare (I think!)? Well remember the way the Gardai made it to look like they stumbled upon it etc, when the real story emerged later that they had rented a trawler in Cobh and impersonated drug criminals at a mid-ocean rendevous with a fairly large ocean going vessel (a tug or transport?) before transporting it themselves in the supposed 'find' location. Well what really pisses me of is that from what I can remember basically only one guy was nicked for this and he was only a mule caught at the find, everyone else got off. Why the hell did the Gardai not just go through with the transfer of drugs to the trawler and then use Defence Forces assets to take the dam ship? It bugs me that the Gardai (including Noel Conroy - I think) could go to all that trouble and risk their lives in such a way when it would have been easy to use the AC to keep the ship under surveillence, the Navy to stop/sink the ship & if needs be the ARW to put the boot in and board the ship. I mean I know sea boardings are dangerous and the guys onboard were well armed but they could hardly mess with a NS big gun. It seems that a round of backslapping was more important than getting to the bottom of the truth.

-Barndoor

(P.S If the Irish Media / Irish Politicians were any feckin good this question would have been answered long ago):mad: :mad:

Goldie fish
18th May 2004, 08:40
There is a "Turf War" that goes on with Drug enforcement in this state,and a reluctance to combine assets. The Naval service do it,The Gardai do it,and the Customs National Drugs team do it. The imminent delivery of a Patrol vessel to the Revenue service(Customs) means that they will be "competing" inshore with the NS.
It would be more sensible to combine efforts,towards a larger goal....

mutter nutter (again)
18th May 2004, 09:31
Originally posted by Goldie fish
There is a "Turf War" that goes on with Drug enforcement in this state,and a reluctance to combine assets. The Naval service do it,The Gardai do it,and the Customs National Drugs team do it. The imminent delivery of a Patrol vessel to the Revenue service(Customs) means that they will be "competing" inshore with the NS.
It would be more sensible to combine efforts,towards a larger goal....

Surely GF your not advocating, intelligence,planning, and foresight, in a government agency are you??

Goldie fish
18th May 2004, 15:51
I Know..I'm sorry..what was I thinking..I wont do it again I promise.

Farel'
21st May 2004, 20:29
Why are the Revenue Comissioners going to all the trouble to select this boat,and train suitable crews etc, when the expertise already exists within the Naval service? Would the NS not be better able to operate and support this craft,given that it will spend most of its time in the waters of the Cork coastline anyway?
Why not let the NS get 10 similar craft,with a Revenue officer onboard if required?

Seems pointless that we currently have 4 seperate Government bodies doing the same job.

goc132
21st May 2004, 22:22
WHERE IS THIS GARDA BOAT USED AND DOES ANYONE HAVE PHOTO OF BOAT{GARDA} ON THE SHANNON?

Goldie fish
21st May 2004, 23:20
See post number 6 on this page. The boat with Garda on the front.....(Does anyone read threads these days?)

Victor
22nd May 2004, 06:27
Originally posted by Farel'
Why are the Revenue Comissioners going to all the trouble to select this boat,and train suitable crews etc, They aren't. Those skills already exist within Customs (I presume they actually outsource the training) as they already have at least three boats.

I can't remember the builder, but they were based in Carrigaline(?).

Goldie fish
22nd May 2004, 17:45
The Customs NDT have only used RIBs in the past,to my knowledge. Nothing as large as this craft. As mentioned above

Training will be provided at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources in Castletownbere in Cork.

Harry
23rd May 2004, 00:31
CARA MARINE in Carrigaline built craft for Dorset Police, Harbour Masters etc. but nothing for Irish Revenue.

Goldie fish
16th June 2004, 15:32
New €1.6m vessel boosts custom officers’ fight against drugs

By Sean O’Riordan
CUSTOMS officers are to have their armoury bolstered in the battle against the drugs trade with the addition of a €1.6 million vessel which will be used to patrol the coast.

The RCC Suirbhéir, which earlier this week underwent sea trials, is due to be formally commissioned on June 28 and will be stationed in Cork.

The 21 metre-long cutter, similar to ones used off the Florida coast by the US Coastguard, was built in Finland and has a range of up to 500 miles.

The all-weather vessel will be manned by a crew of six and its principal area of operations will be within Irish territorial waters.

A spokesman for the Revenue Customs Service said the cutter is being introduced as a further development of its response to the problem of drugs importations via the Irish coastline.


"The vessel will provide us with the ability to provide greater cover by way of patrolling the Irish coastline/EU external frontier. It will allow us to have a highly visible presence in coastal areas and make the service more accessible to the coastal and maritime communities who are important partners in the Customs Drugs Watch Programme," he said.

The introduction of this vessel will allow even greater liaison between the Revenue Customs Service and the Naval Service in their combined efforts against drugs smuggling.

Millions of euros worth of drugs have been seized off the coast of Cork in the past 10 years. Irish drugs barons living in Holland and Spain have in the past organised the landing of drugs along the county's lengthy coastline.

The Naval Service is to provide an officer to accompany customs officers for the first few weeks on active service as they get used to the vessel which is not armed.

Powered by two 820kw engines, RCC Suirbhéir, will have a national remit and will be under the management of the Special Compliance District, South West Region.

"The role of the vessel will be to the patrol and monitoring of internal waters, territorial seas and adjacent waters, aimed at the prevention, detection, interception and seizure of controlled drugs, fiscal goods, and arms," the Revenue Customs Service spokesman said.

She was named following a competition among Revenue staff which attracted over 2,000 entries. The winning suggestion, from Pádraig Dooley from Kilkenny, recalls the former customs service grade of "Surveyor" which was in use for hundreds of years.

The use of the Irish version of the word is in keeping with the tradition of naming all Government vessels in our first language.

Irish Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/ireland/Full_Story/did-sgRQU9j8kIPAEsgdq-nXlDAyFE.asp)

Goldie fish
16th June 2004, 15:33
I'll try to get a few photos of her if I can as soon as possible.

Harry
18th June 2004, 19:31
Goldie, can you clarify something for me. I know the vessel will not be armed but will the officers on board have any other protection other than lifejackets?...it would be kinda pointless if this vessel would have to wait a few hours for the NS to arrive. Personally I think the RCS should have 2-3 helicopter-borne armed response teams, one in El Paso / Border Area and another in the wild west of the south west

Goldie fish
20th June 2004, 01:04
Its not for me to say what protection is carried by the Customs/Revenue/NDT,even if I knew what weapons they used.

andy
20th June 2004, 14:30
I seen that new ship on Sky News Ireland, looks great and something the country urgently needs. Are there any plans to get any more?


one guy was nicked for this and he was only a mule caught at the find, everyone else got off. Why the hell did the Gardai not just go through with the transfer of drugs to the trawler and then use Defence Forces assets to take the dam ship?

Is that not entrapment ?

Farel'
21st June 2004, 01:07
Could this be the beginning of the end for inshore patrolling for the NS?

ForkTailedDevil
21st June 2004, 03:47
How about doing something like turning over all NS inshore assets to law enforcement and make the NS, solely, a blue water navy? Instead of having all these different departments with their own vessels, consolidate all assets in a Coast Guard/Customs/anti Immigration unit or something similar? Unfortunatley having all waterborne assests under one command might be too simplistic for the people in charge of law enforcement:(

Or am I being a bit simple by suggesting it?

I know it got suggested earlier in the thread but is it workable and would it make the INS a happier place since they have one less non navy job to do and fewer groups to have to negotiate with in using its assets?

DeV
21st June 2004, 14:43
Part of the problem is that there are already too many agencies.

The Gardai & Europol regard Ireland as a major inlet of drugs into Europe. As we all know while there have been major successes, these are just a drop in the ocean (so to speak).

The National Drugs Task Force is an attempt to solve the problem of too many agencies but it has not.

Combating drugs coming into Ireland, it is the responsibilty of the Gardai, Customs & Excise, and the NS, to interdict them. Major trans-shipments have been missed because of fighting between the agencies. None of the agencies will publise their informants, information, etc for the other agencies.

At the moment, any member of the NS above the rank of P/O has the right to search any vessel in Irish waters suspected of carrying drugs.

Answer to the problem?
Give NS ultimate responsibility for interdiction of drugs at sea?

gaff85
21st June 2004, 19:05
Has anyone got a picture of this new cutter? I tried today to see if I could find one on the net, but was unsuccessful.

Goldie fish
28th June 2004, 06:40
I missed her today as she left Cork harbour,after being tied up at Crosshaven. I was in Kinsale later on,and she was not there..I believe the training is being done in Bantry. Comissioning is on the 28th..but where?

Goldie fish
28th June 2004, 21:30
28/06/2004 - 1:50:37 PM

Customs take drug battle to the seas

The Customs Service is to take its war against drug smugglers to the water for the first time, it emerged today.

A new 23-metre long cutter vessel has been added to the service’s armoury for the first time since the foundation of the State.

The RCC Suirbheir, or Surveyor, which has a top speed of 25 knots or 30 miles per hour, cost €1.6m euro and will be manned by a six-person crew of customs officers.

It was officially named today at the Custom House Quay in Cork.

The service said the vessel was being introduced in response to the problem of drugs importation and other smuggling via the Irish coastline.

Finance Minister Charlie McCreevy said the new ship would be an important tool in the fight against drug dealers.


“I would like to compliment Revenue on its foresight and vision in adding this important piece of infrastructure in its, and the nation’s fight against the scourge of drug trafficking,” he added.

Frank Daly, the Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners, said the boat would prove invaluable in combating smuggling.

“This impressive vessel will play a very important role in ensuring that the environment for drug smugglers who come into our territorial waters and ports becomes increasingly and significantly more difficult,” he added.

The name was reached after Padraig Dooley from Kilkenny won a competition among Revenue staff which attracted over 2,000 entries.

Come-quickly
28th June 2004, 22:07
Is there any role for something this size in the NS, operated by shore lovers and Sluggies to allow the NS to concentrate in operating further offshore?
Or would there be no meaningful benefit to the current PV fleet in only having to operate outside the effective range of these cutters?

Goldie fish
29th June 2004, 02:50
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0628/nationwide_av.html?1846175,null,200
Tom MacSweeney, Marine Correspondent, reports that Ireland's first purpose-built Customs vessel has taken up duty based in Cork

edited

gaff85
29th June 2004, 04:21
Now that the Customs have there "Cutter" and the Garda have there inshore patrols boats, is it not time that the Navy purchased more than Fisheries patrol boats. Is it time that the Irish Navy started to look at larger craft?

Aslo if the Revenue Cutter is not armed in any way, is this not going to drain Naval resources backing up a craft when/if firepower maybe requied in a "Drugs" boarding incident.

It now seems that there are 3 independent authoraties with inshore going craft that are all tasked with the same job in one way or another.

Goldie fish
29th June 2004, 11:16
It strikes me as unusual to see a Lt Commander at the helm of this vessel,a position he will hold for a year while customs are getting used to operating such a craft. The Gardai had no naval assistance with the Water unit,and the Customs NDT went it alone too....
I would be inclined to conspire that if considered suitable,this type of craft could eventually replace the Peacocks in the CPV role. A Large number of such craft,based at strategic locations around the coast,(Bantry, Foynes, Galway, Rathmullen, Drogheda, Rosslare, Cork)
,could provide a REAL inshore capability,with pretty good seakeeping if the Officer on the report is to be believed...
The small crews required would not eat into manpower too much,allowing the Other ships to concentrate on other tasks further out to sea.

Goldie fish
29th June 2004, 12:08
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/evening/seascapes/24june.html

FIRST NEW CUSTOMS CUTTER IN THE HISTORY OF THE STATE
The Customs Service has commissioned the first new purpose-built offshore patrol vessel to fight drug-runners on the Irish coastline. The latest weapon in their battle against drug-running is a 22-metre vessel, built in Finland at a cost of €1.6m. It can carry a crew of six and for the first year of its operation, the Naval Service will provide training for the Customs maritime personnel. The Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners, Frank Daly, has stressed that there is no question of the Customs usurping the role of the Naval Service. "We have the closest of relations with them and this will continue, but in the modern situations in which we are dealing with the extensive drug-running that has taken place in recent years, we need more than the rigid inflatables which have been our sole marine resource until now. This is an island country and we must have the capability to respond to those who try to bring drugs into Ireland by sea." The Naval Service, Customs who are part of the Revenue Commissioners and Gardai form a joint task force which, in recent years, has succeeded in seizing millions of Euros worth of drugs during attempted landings by boat on the South-West coastline in particular. "We do not claim to have stopped every attempted importation, no security force in Europe could claim that, but we are at the edge of Europe and have a responsibility towards the EU as well as to defend Ireland against the drug-runners," said Frank Daly.

hptmurphy
29th June 2004, 21:11
Yeah a half a dozen of them wouldn't go astray ! Yes base one in every fishing port and major port...Now find sufficent crews and maintaince facilities !

to operate effectively ..every three boats requires one as spare and every boat requires three crews...Thats the hard and fast logistical rule. Now accomadation has to be found at a suitable position.

This is getting into the realms of the aircorps providing SAR cover. Why not now up grade the role of the coast guard and allocate these peole the boats and the taskings. Delegate powers of stop and arrest ...hey presto functional coast guard that also have their own independent air wing .....and are not subject to the confines of military thinking.:D

Goldie fish
29th June 2004, 21:42
Then the question would be asked.."do we need a Navy anyway?"

yellowjacket
29th June 2004, 21:53
Might be a better question to ask do we need a navy with the capability to perform a naval role.

Goldie fish
29th June 2004, 22:37
I refer you to the thread about New Naval ship.. (http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3456)

coffee
30th June 2004, 00:02
the cutter was on this weeks nation wide max speed is 27 knots the captin claimed that this would not effect the navys operations in any way and they look foward to working with them.

mutter nutter (again)
30th June 2004, 00:07
I have a question, is it unusual for that type of boat to have a boat ramp at the back or is it standard?

Goldie fish
30th June 2004, 01:52
Originally posted by coffee
the cutter was on this weeks nation wide max speed is 27 knots the captin claimed that this would not effect the navys operations in any way and they look foward to working with them.

Em..If you had read the earlier part of the thread,you would see a link to nationwide....

The Boat ramp as you call it is a pretty new idea. I have my doubts about it,but for a craft of that size,it is probably more practical than using a Crane or davit. The HM Customs use a single point launch system similar to that mentioned in the thread about Eithnes Delta's. I think the Dept of marine fisheries boats have a similar setup.

http://www.vtplc.com/images/original/1769.JPG

hptmurphy
30th June 2004, 07:39
The navies role would be reinforced not depleted as we would now have a dedicated inshore search team reinforced by an offshore unit..one supplementing the other and the navy could now prioritise in their primary function ...fisheries protection although this too could do with a similar type vessel again to be supplemented in the offshore role by the navy.

We will always need a naval service and are bound by international law to the upkeep of such a force.

Goldie fish
1st July 2004, 21:58
Though it is mentioned that the Naval officer on the crew is a temporary arrangement,could this be a tactic of Naval HQ to keep all ships under their control? The new Jetty outside the Maritime college looks about the right size to hold this boat also. Perhaps the NS will run them the same way as the AC run the Garda Air support unit? Having an NS officer aboard removes the chance of the Customs trying to pull one over on the NS. In future NS will be aware of all drug operations,and able to provide assistance as required.


Quayside address by the Minister for Finance, Mr. Charlie McCreevy, T.D.

Lord Mayor, Ministers, Ministers of State, Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen, On my own behalf and on behalf of Noeleen, I am delighted to be here today for the naming and commissioning of the new Revenue Customs Cutter, Suirbhéir.
We had the opportunity to travel up from Cobh this morning with Minister of State, Noel Ahern, Chairman Frank Daly and the crew of this very impressive vessel. It was a smooth run which is more than could be said for some of the choppy waters I’ve encountered from time to time.
I would like to compliment Revenue on its foresight and vision in adding this important piece of infrastructure in its, and the nation’s fight against the scourge of drug trafficking.

The Government’s National Drugs Strategy for which my colleague Noel Ahern has particular responsibility is based on four pillars. The first of these, supply reduction, sets a target of significantly reducing the volume of illicit drugs available in Ireland, to arrest the dynamic of existing markets and to curtail new markets as they are identified.
This vessel and the operations that will be directed and undertaken by Revenue with this vessel represent an important strengthening of Revenue’s and the States capacity to carry forward the fight against the importation of drugs.

The Cutter ‘Suirbhéir’ provides the Customs Service with the ability to provide greater cover by way of patrolling the Irish coastline – which is also of course the EU external frontier. She will also ensure that the Customs Service has a highly visible presence in coastal areas and make it more accessible to the coastal and maritime communities who are important partners in the Customs Drugs Watch Programme.

The challenge for Revenue in the weeks, months and years ahead is to build on the opportunities and very much increased response capability that this vessel provides. Last week, Frank Daly presented Revenue’s Annual Report to me for 2003. That report provided a comprehensive summary of the significant work undertaken and results delivered by Revenue last year.
On the Customs front I noted for example that Revenue seized drugs worth €21 million and detained over half a million euro in suspect drug-related cash.

That achievement represents an important element of the multi agency input to delivering on the supply reduction commitments of the National Drugs Strategy. I trust that record of achievement will benefit significantly from this Governments investment in this vessel.

On an occasion of celebration such as today, it is worth remembering the context in which Revenue operations, such as those will be facilitated by this magnificent vessel behind us, are conducted.

Revenue through its Customs Service has serious responsibilities under the National Drug Strategy to exercise statutory controls at ports, airports and the coastline, including the seizure of controlled drugs and the apprehension of traffickers.

Revenue also has an important role in the protection of the external frontier of the European Union. Here, on the Atlantic frontier, this responsibility is shared with Spain, Portugal, France, Holland, Belgium, Denmark and the United Kingdom.

In fact the length of our coastline and our strategic location on an island on the western extremity of the Union singles Ireland out as an important link in the protection of the Atlantic frontier. We are adjacent to the northerly shipping lanes that pass through the Irish Sea and the west of Ireland from North Africa, West Africa and the Mediterranean.

We are situated on the western approaches to Europe for maritime traffic from the Caribbean and from North America, Central America and South America.

Today is the culmination of a co-operative approach by a range of Government Departments and agencies. I know that there are representatives here from many of these Departments and agencies including the Department of Defence, the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources and the Naval Service. I commend all concerned for their work and co-operative endeavour.

Your work has been important, not just in bringing the Cutter Project to fruition today but also in ensuring that Ireland as a nation is well equipped and positioned to provide a robust and effective response to the reality of drug trafficking in the years ahead.

I note in particular Revenue’s public acknowledgement of the role and support of the Naval Service in the fight against drugs and I am delighted to endorse that on behalf of the Government.

I know that my colleague, Minister for Defence Michael Smith, is himself very supportive of the joint task force approach to drugs interdiction that sees Customs, the Gardaí, the Naval Service and indeed the Air Corps working together as a team and getting the results that good teamwork brings.



Finally I want to wish the crew of this vessel every success in their new assignment. You went through a rigorous selection process and I know that you bring a high level of dedication and professionalism to your new role. You are the successors to those who manned the Revenue Cutters in the 18th century and who were required to be “sober, active and bred to the sea” – I know you meet all those attributes – at least the last two – I can’t vouch for the first. I wish you and all who sail in the Revenue Customs Cutter Suirbhéir success and safe passage.

.

hptmurphy
2nd July 2004, 04:06
Loadsa bollocks although Mc Greevys missus is a cracker !:D

Farel'
2nd July 2004, 04:26
I thought he had a wandering eye?

Kieran
2nd July 2004, 20:42
Originally posted by Goldie fish
.

http://www.vtplc.com/images/original/1769.JPG

I belive I speak for all people from fishing families when I say that this must not be allowed to hAPPEN

hptmurphy
3rd July 2004, 01:50
what to happen....?

on the Mcgreedy wife topic I believe that she is second wife....nice one charlie!

Goldie fish
5th July 2004, 04:23
http://a2.cpimg.com/image/C6/D4/35988422-23cb-02000199-.jpg

http://a9.cpimg.com/image/C3/D4/35988419-b3ce-02000199-.jpg

http://a0.cpimg.com/image/C4/D4/35988420-795f-02000199-.jpg

http://a1.cpimg.com/image/C5/D4/35988421-9ae9-02000199-.jpg
Worth noting that the RIB on its boat ramp is jet drive powered,rather than the typical outboard commonly seen on NS vessels.

Goldie fish
5th July 2004, 05:51
http://www.revenue.ie/wnew/pr_280604cutr.htm


Ms Noeleen McCreevy, wife of the Minister for Finance, today (28 June) officially named Revenue's new purpose-built Customs Cutter, RCC Suirbhéir, at the Custom House Quay, Cork.

The 23 metre sea-going vessel, the first of its kind for the Customs service since the foundation of the State, is being introduced as a further development of Revenue's response to the problem of drugs importations and other smuggling via the Irish coastline.

Guests of honour at the ceremony were the Minister for Finance, Charlie McCreevy TD and Mr Noel Ahern TD, Minister for State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs who has special responsibility for the National Drugs Strategy. The ceremony was also attended by the Lord Mayor of Cork, Sean Martin; the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Joe Walsh TD along with the Minister for State at the Department of Enterprise Trade and Employment, Mr Michael Ahern TD. Dail deputies from all Cork constituencies attended as did dignitaries from the Naval Service, the Gardai, business and the sailing and seafaring community.

Speaking at the ceremony the Minister for Finance, Charlie McCreevy said:
"I would like to compliment Revenue on its foresight and vision in adding this important piece of infrastructure in its, and the nation's fight against the scourge of drug trafficking."



Noel Ahern TD, Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, with responsibility for Drugs Strategy commented:
"I know that Customs and Excise are achieving considerable success in achieving their targets under the National Drugs Strategy. I am confident that the new cutter will go a long way in maintaining this success."

The Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners, Frank Daly said:
"This impressive vessel will play a very important role in ensuring that the environment for drug smugglers who come into our territorial waters and ports becomes increasingly and significantly more difficult."

Additional Information

Technical Details
Hull Length:- 22.7M
Hull Breath:- 5.4M
Engines:-2 X 820 Kilowatt (total power output 2400 HP)
Speed:-25 knots.
Fuel Capacity:-Approx 8000 litres.

Command & Crew
The vessel will be crewed by specially selected and trained Revenue personnel (normally six in number) under Cutter Commander Gerry Greenway, himself a Revenue official.
In order to meet maritime regulatory requirements, the vessel (while under Revenue management) will, for the first twelve months, be commanded by a Naval Officer, Lt-Commander Pat Allen.

Cost
Uudenkaupungin Tyovene in Finland built the Cutter at a cost of €1.6 million.

Name
She was named following a competition among Revenue staff which attracted over 2,000 entries. The winning suggestion, by Pádraig Dooley from Kilkenny, recalls the former Customs service grade of 'Surveyor' which was in use for hundreds of years. The name also indicates the function of the vessel while the use of the Irish version is in keeping with the tradition of naming all Government vessels in the first language.

Home Port
The Home Port of the vessel will be Cork Harbour however the cutter will have a national remit. She will be under the management of the Revenue, Special Compliance District, South West Region.

Goldie fish
6th July 2004, 09:08
I am willing to put money on this boat eventually moving to Ringaskiddy when the Maritime college is complete later this year. As you can see from the photo abovemthis vessel shares a marina with the Fisheries Board Patrol boat,but the majority of the craft here are private yachts,which could in many cases be the target of the Customs.
The unsuitability of this mooring was sent home to me when over the weekend I asked some yachting types if they had seen the Cutter recently. They told me where it usually moored,what time it was due back,and where it had been all week. I was then able to return to take my photos,and could have boarded the vessel if I was so inclined,and nobody was around to stop me.
When this vessel starts to impact on the business of drugs smuggling,the criminal gangs will go to a lot of trouble to put a stop to it.
The Jetty is already built,within sight of the slip at Haulbowline,but out of sight of those who would seek advantage by knowing this cutters routine. It remains to be seen if those in power agree with me.

Goldie fish
4th August 2004, 10:33
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/story/1014849.html

FIRST NEW CUSTOMS CUTTER IN THE HISTORY OF THE STATE
The Customs Service has commissioned the first new purpose-built offshore patrol vessel to fight drug-runners on the Irish coastline. The latest weapon in their battle against drug-running is a 22-metre vessel, built in Finland at a cost of €1.6m.

It can carry a crew of six and for the first year of its operation, the Naval Service will provide training for the Customs maritime personnel. The Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners, Frank Daly, has stressed that there is no question of the Customs usurping the role of the Naval Service.

"We have the closest of relations with them and this will continue, but in the modern situations in which we are dealing with the extensive drug-running that has taken place in recent years, we need more than the rigid inflatables which have been our sole marine resource until now.

This is an island country and we must have the capability to respond to those who try to bring drugs into Ireland by sea." The Naval Service, Customs who are part of the Revenue Commissioners and Gardai form a joint task force which, in recent years, has succeeded in seizing millions of Euros worth of drugs during attempted landings by boat on the South-West coastline in particular.

"We do not claim to have stopped every attempted importation, no security force in Europe could claim that, but we are at the edge of Europe and have a responsibility towards the EU as well as to defend Ireland against the drug-runners," said Frank Daly

http://dynimg.rte.ie/000022180a8.jpg
http://dynimg.rte.ie/000022190a8.jpg
http://dynimg.rte.ie/0000221a0a8.jpg
http://dynimg.rte.ie/0000221b0a8.jpg
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The Sultan
15th August 2004, 02:01
excuse my ignorence, but would this new cutter have a radar??

Goldie fish
15th August 2004, 02:13
Yes. Its the blue thing at the top of the photo.

http://dynimg.rte.ie/000022180a8.jpg





This was my 4000th post ever... I was hoping it would be more interesting...

eelmonster
27th January 2006, 19:14
does this justify customs officers wearing the rank of sub-lieutenant?

Goldie fish
27th January 2006, 19:25
Customs service have their own rank structure and rank markings.

Gasplug
27th January 2006, 19:37
How many boats do they have? or is it just the one?

eelmonster
27th January 2006, 20:34
Customs service have their own rank structure and rank markings.

how does it differ from naval rankings? i've only ever seen the sub-L - what do customs call that?

Goldie fish
27th January 2006, 23:38
They use the RN style curl, and the cap is Naval in appearance, but with the customs service harp instead of the FF sunburst.

Just one Boat of the cutter type, but a number of High speed RIBs are also in use.

http://www.revenue.ie/services/customs/cndt.htm

http://www.revenue.ie/annualreport/annualreport_2004/en/images/goal1_pic1.jpg

Goldie fish
11th February 2006, 01:02
Suirbheir is currently undergoing maintenance in cork Dockyard, and makes an interesting sight, high and dry.

Gasplug
11th February 2006, 21:16
Are the customs officers onboard armed?

Goldie fish
11th February 2006, 22:38
Its not for me to say what protection is carried by the Customs/Revenue/NDT,even if I knew what weapons they used.

as above

Silver
12th August 2006, 00:09
Just watched a programme on TG4 ('Neelo') which featured the Customs (Custaim) Patrol Boat 'Suirbhear' (?).

It showed the patrol boat captain, and crew in action in their RIB in both the harbour of Kinsale and out at sea.

The presenter noted .... "With 3,500 miles (kms?) of coastline, Ireland should have more than one Customs patrol boat!"

Interesting feature!



Incidentially, the crew were wearing a jacket with a 'CUSTAIM' patch/crest on the shoulder - does anybody here know if is this a patch, or printed onto the jacket ?

Silver.

Goldie fish
12th August 2006, 00:22
Saw that. Neelo kind of underestimated their success, given that they found no drugs while he was with them. You can be pretty sure though that there would be no camera crews aboard when the real work is being done.

eelmonster
14th January 2007, 18:39
i know it's off topic, but does anyone know if the irish customs' (like HM customs') uniform insignia relates to their rank structure?

gaff85
14th January 2007, 18:55
Does anyone know if there is a second revenue cutter to be purchased?

B Inman
14th January 2007, 22:07
Does anyone know if there is a second revenue cutter to be purchased?

I am a regular reader of AONTAS the magazine of the Civil and Public Services Union who published the impending arrival of the current vessel.. not a whisper of a "follow on" but when it happens watch this space...

Goldie fish
15th January 2007, 15:15
Current government policy on drug enforcement does not support it.

gaff85
10th July 2007, 15:57
After reflection of the drugs haul "Found" of the cork coast, are the revenue going to receive any more vessels to patrol the shoreline.

On Q n A last weeks the "drugs minister" tried to say that the Navy was receiving new ships, however it had to be pointed out that these were replacement vessels.

If this is a one off, can the current Naval assets patrol the extended UN mandated Irish protectorate?

What would be idle to carry out this type of patrolling along our coast line? Assing the cutter and additional cutters to the Coast Guard, and allow the Navy to patrol further out to sea? Arm the coast guard so as they are an actual deterrant "Along the lines of the US"

CG helis to patrol as well as carry out SAR?

Is there room for additional Naval personal to be recruited? I taugh the white papaer had a headcount limit that has already been reached?

DeV
10th July 2007, 17:48
Last night on Questions & Answers the Minister for Foreign Affairs said the NS "has enough resources".

There are already IMO too many agencies involved in the interdiction of drugs without involving the IRCG.

The IRCG roles are SAR, to protect the marine environment and marine safety promotion/enforcement. Most IRCG personnel are part-time volunteers (similar to Civil Defence). They are not trained to undertake this role (even if they do have some of the required equipment). It comes to something when you watch the RNLI fishing bales of cocaine out of bay on the west coast, as we have seen.

IMHO, the NS should be tasked with interdiction of drugs at sea, Customs at ports & airports and Gardai once they are inside the country proper, with the JTF co-ordinating where known/suspected importations are "knocked" in order to take out the maximum amount of a drug gang as possible.

Just watching Primetime on RTE site, according to the guy being interviewed in Austria(?) the Gardai had no intelligence of cocaine being directly imported into the EU via Ireland. According to Garda intelligence it mostly comes in via other EU countries.

ODIN
10th July 2007, 18:00
This find was by fluke really, I am open to correction on this as I was out of the country when it happened. If this find was by chance, one has to wonder how many shipments reach Irish shores yearly that will never be discovered. It is obvious to anybody who posts here, and after this incident it also must be obvious to Joe and Jane public and to the Government, people elected to protect this nation, that the Naval Service does not have the required vessles and man power to really fight against the people who are determind to bring drugs into this country.

hptmurphy
10th July 2007, 20:06
In reality what country has the required vessels and manpower to at least curb never mind stop the flow of drugs.

Living on an island is no different to living in a landlocked country..its a question of the drug traffickers being one step ahead of those who police borders and often having greater resources to ply their trade.


responsibilty firmly lies on the legislators to ensure those involved suffer heavier penalities....it is without doubt who is behind the shipments. If the funding was cut of at source and the the suppliers made exempt from ordinary criminal law.....try something along the lines of the supreme court and fast tracking cases it would put a huge hole in the pockets of those who profit from it,,and would probably have greater impact than every body jumping on the band wagon demanding more ships everytime there is an incident of some description at sea.

Every one sees increasing naval forces to be the cure from everything from sub standard fishing boats to drug importation. A reflection inward to where the social problems lie that allow the usgae of such drugs would be far greaqter than throwing money at a service due to obviuos constrrictions and historically has suffered neglect and realistically at about nine vessels and 1200 personel would be at its capacity within the DF.

In an age when cut backs on defence spending and reduction in numbers are a by product of the peace dividend , I don't think the NS can ever expect to any more greater than it is at the moment. Yes there will be new ships but will there be bodies to man them..what state will the countries finances be in another 8 years when the peacocks and Eithne are due replacement?

Hulls in the water against the 'war ' on drugs will always be minamilistic. Any body historically minded will know that the NS and the AC are under the umbrella of the Army and the army will always have first call on resources.

In short...don't hold your breath.

thebig C
10th July 2007, 21:01
This find was by fluke really, I am open to correction on this as I was out of the country when it happened. If this find was by chance, one has to wonder how many shipments reach Irish shores yearly that will never be discovered. It is obvious to anybody who posts here, and after this incident it also must be obvious to Joe and Jane public and to the Government, people elected to protect this nation, that the Naval Service does not have the required vessles and man power to really fight against the people who are determind to bring drugs into this country.

Isn't it the case that drugs interdiction at sea is almost entirely intelligence-driven? So if there isn't enough good intelligence, then maybe that's where extra resources are needed?

Maritime surveillance hasn't been exclusively ship-based for many years. The Air Corps CASAs can cover large sea areas, so again, if extra resources are required, perhaps they should be directed into expanding airborne surveillance? If the Naval Service's ships carried helicopters and/or UAVs, they would also be able to cover larger areas.

Do the Irish authorities have access to satellite data? Presumably intelligence based on satellite surveillance is made available to Ireland if a vessel needs to be intercepted in Irish waters.

Other surveillance data such as the Fishing Vessel Monitoring System is also available.

So, the successful interdiction of smuggled drugs is about a lot more than extra ships for the Naval Service. (Of course another approach to this problem would be to decriminalise drugs - seeing as the prohibition policy has been an extremely expensive failure globally - but that's a whole other argument...)

pym
11th July 2007, 01:24
While I broadly agree with hptmurphy's point that preventative measures to fix the root causes of drug abuse have to be taken....

Cocaine is a drug primarily abused by well to do people who see it as a status symbol. Educating people on the idiocy of Coke usage is certainly a prerequisite, but many people will remain unreachable. They think they know better.

Another point is that this shipment was being trafficked through Ireland as a means to get into the UK. This has me thinking that perhaps these drug runners see this country as a soft touch compared to our neighbours.

This has to change.

Stiffer sentencing, better education and better policing all have a role to play in stopping massive drug smuggling like this.

In terms of policing the seas - would investment in air surveillance of the sea by UAV's or additional Casa MPA's represent a better solution?

Is current satellite technology up to much when it comes to detecting vessels at sea? I believe the Navy currently uses a sat system that can locate vessels using transponders - but what about vessels without gps transponders?

I know proposing some manner of spy/observation satellite is probably akin to proposing hover tanks with laser beams - but 24/7 ocean coverage, if viable should be something that could be looked into no?

It should be noted I'm just a know nothing civvie with an interest in the Defence Forces - and I'll bow to your guys knowledge of the subject. Just letting off some idea's/opinions.

hptmurphy
11th July 2007, 10:32
"Is current satellite technology up to much when it comes to detecting vessels at sea? I believe the Navy currently uses a sat system that can locate vessels using transponders - but what about vessels without gps transponders"

Primary scanning radar or satelite surveliance is very problematic as it shows far too many images to procurespecific targets from.Its great if you have a specific target to track but picking out specific targets is difficult. Good intelligance from the source country and better co operation between international agencies would be a major step in the right direction

Test Pilot
11th July 2007, 19:11
"Is current satellite technology up to much when it comes to detecting vessels at sea? I believe the Navy currently uses a sat system that can locate vessels using transponders - but what about vessels without gps transponders"

Primary scanning radar or satelite surveliance is very problematic as it shows far too many images to procurespecific targets from.Its great if you have a specific target to track but picking out specific targets is difficult. Good intelligance from the source country and better co operation between international agencies would be a major step in the right direction

It should be noted that private craft are not required to have a transponder tracking system fitted. However, AIS (automatic identification systems), are now common place amongst most ocean going private vessels. There are two types, Class A, which is a mandatory fit under the safety of life at sea (SOLAS) convention, to vessels over 300 gross tons or which carry more than 11 pasangers in international waters. Usually used by the commercial guys. Class B, for the so called 'yachties' or other classes which do not fit in to the class A mandatory fit category.
It can transmit information such as, name of vessel, callsign, MMSI no, length and type of vessel, position, speed and course over ground, port of call, cargo type and what you had for breakfast.
Very effective, except that there is in all cases the ability to switch off the unit or go to 'receive' only mode, so that a vessel can still be in a covert mode of operaton.
Even if the vessel's tracking system was self contained and hidden, all one has to do is to place tin foil over the small antenna to disable it.

Nothing is fool proof!

luchi
11th July 2007, 21:29
Another point is that this shipment was being trafficked through Ireland as a means to get into the UK. This has me thinking that perhaps these drug runners see this country as a soft touch compared to our neighbours.

This has to change.


Is it not tme we looked for a European solution?

With the moving of Europes outer boundaries there must be Anti-Drug enforcement officers spare in countries like Germany that are now surrounded by "friendly boarders"

Since drugs and drug dealers do not respect the neutrality of our land maybe European Naval co-operation could be an option that might give 24/7 protection to the whole union.
It probably can not stop everything but at least it would not be so easy

pym
11th July 2007, 22:05
Is it not tme we looked for a European solution?

With the moving of Europes outer boundaries there must be Anti-Drug enforcement officers spare in countries like Germany that are now surrounded by "friendly boarders"

Since drugs and drug dealers do not respect the neutrality of our land maybe European Naval co-operation could be an option that might give 24/7 protection to the whole union.
It probably can not stop everything but at least it would not be so easy

This was mooted a few years ago I think, having European navies police European seas collectively. There would probably be some legalities involved in having foreign naval vessels apprehend Irish or other flagged vessels in Irish seas but that could be sorted out.

This combined with better intelligence co-operation with other states would make things more difficult for the scum smuggling the drugs in.

Question for the Navy lads: I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume British & US submarines are in Ireland's Atlantic waters quite often. Would they contact the Irish navy if they detected something, or would the fact they're meant to respect our boundaries preclude them from passing on intelligence?

Actually... that might be operational info, if so - skip it!

hptmurphy
11th July 2007, 22:12
Enforcing European fishery regulations is solely the responsibility of the NS within the Irish Box...and with some great difficulty.One has to only look back and see how it took to develop this to the state it's at now..and thats only trying to enforce a very basic act who are predomiantely blatant in their actions.

Can't see how the proposal to put an entire europe funded naval force in territorail awaters trying to enforce many forms of legislation, given that each country would have varying legislation regarding different acts!

Given that most of the Europeans already have heavy national and nato commitments and the tendency to reduce naval forces..and also the lack of countries that could operate say at two hundered miles from home without having to have a vast supplementary force...

Nice idea but almost practically impossible given the logistics involved.
In that the European land and airforce is still along way off ....trying to activate a naval force with imput from national police , interpol, customs services, intelliegence agencies, and last of all naval forces.....could it really be a runner....?

Given that the USA has four or five agencies already trying to that job on a single national scale and the limited success they have..imagine how a european force would fall apart at the seams with issues such as who has juristiction over what and where..who has responsibilty for what and where....and the biggie..who funds it at a capital and running cost level.

Basic set up as is looks like intelligence ,surveilance and interception.

the first two have to improve before the third can happen and given the already declared interests in these areas with lack of resources how can it be further funded without very little proven sucess notably one or two interceptions per year...hardly a recipe for building or funding an entire seperate naval force to purely prevent drug importation.

I reckon that most countries would secretly admit that its easier to deal with the consequences of drugs ashore rather than slash out massive sums in the off chance they may intercept some at sea.


"Question for the Navy lads: I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume British & US submarines are in Ireland's Atlantic waters quite often. Would they contact the Irish navy if they detected something, or would the fact they're meant to respect our boundaries preclude them from passing on intelligence?"

In answer to this if it was within their remit to do such things they would..but by nature submarines like to go undetected so broadcasting their position without it being part of their remit is unlikely....given they had a tendency to 'bump' into things in the past and denied it..they are hardly going to admit to being where they shouldn't be in the first place.

California Tanker
11th July 2007, 22:32
Ireland's economic box which requires patrolling is still generally international waters, and submarines have as much right to be there as anyone else, as long as it's outside of the twelve-mile limit. I can see the sub being used to track someone if there's intel on them, but I don't see how a sub can identify a suspicious drug-related sound contact to report in the first place.

NTM

hptmurphy
11th July 2007, 22:59
"and submarines have as much right to be there as anyone else, as long as it's outside of the twelve-mile limit."

hasn't always been the case ,in reality submarines did transit through Irish waters ' illegally' think this policy changed after a few incidents in the mid eighties.

Would the US be prepared to comit to patrolling European waters for Drug couriers..as none except the UKRN have the capabilities to track such vessels for long periods of time.

Most of the european forces use there submarines for home coastal defence work and the UKRNs submarine fleet fast dwindling as it is is over commited to other primary taskings.

I'm sure if there was amandate to track such vessels it would feasible but a high a specialist aircraft such as the persuader operated by the AC..or the Nimrod or even P3 Orions couple with satellite intel could be as effective. the Nimrod in particular has an amazing loiter time in that it can loiter on one engine reducing fuel consumption for up to 14 hours.

If you look back to the NATO AWAACS developed in the late '80s which was Luxembourg registered but with a whole of NATO obligation would not a permanent maritime patrol air flleet be more viable ,run on the same lines as the AWAAcs scenario.

Along witha credible stand by naval force equipped with suitable vessels such as the NS this could well be a cost effective solution if the will to implement it was there.

but then again its back to source intelligence..and if you need to infiltrate such organisations..amulitnational special forces..albeit it military or police run.

ZULU
16th February 2008, 14:15
Saw today in the Irish Times, the announcement of a second Customs Cutter worth 2.3million euro along with a second TEU X-Ray scanner at a cost of 4 million

Goldie fish
16th February 2008, 14:24
Excellent...

Same as Suirbheir or are they gonna go the whole tendering route again? The first x ray scanner has already paid for itself many times. However if its seen in rosslare by the criminals, they'll arrange to send their consignment thru one of the other roro ports instead.

ZULU
16th February 2008, 14:52
Don't know. All I read in the article is posted. 2700 drug seizures in the state in 2007 valued at over 137million. (105 million was due to the one haul at Dunlough Bay, Cork)
Total cigarette haul in 2007 was 24 million.

CTU
16th February 2008, 15:10
http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/press/pr_150208sos.htm



Tánaiste announces new Customs Cutter and new Scanner at Revenue Strategy launch

At a ceremony in Dublin today (15/02/2008) Mr. Frank Daly, Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners, presented Revenue's sixth Statement of Strategy to the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance Mr. Brian Cowen T.D.. Also present at the event on the Liffey was Mr. Pat Carey, T.D., Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs with special responsibility for Drugs Strategy and Community Affairs. The Statement which covers the period 2008 to 2010 sets out Revenue's high-level programme of work for the coming three years.
At the launch the Tánaiste announced that Revenue is to purchase a second Customs cutter and a second x-ray container scanner for its Customs Service.
Speaking at the launch Tánaiste Mr. Brian Cowen T.D. said,
"Both of these investments are tangible examples of the commitment of Revenue's Customs Service and this Government to tackling the drugs problem which is causing enormous hardship and pain to people in our communities."
Minister Carey said:
"I am delighted to join with the Tánaiste as he announces Revenue's decision to make a further significant investment in additional maritime and scanner equipment. The purchase of a second cutter and a second scanner, both of which it is hoped to have in service next year, underscores the Customs Service commitment to the Government’s National Drug Strategy and to protecting society."
Speaking at the announcement Mr Daly said:
"Effective tax and customs administration is at the core of Ireland's fiscal, social and economic foundations. Public confidence in Revenue is therefore vital and we value a reputation as a "can do" organisation that is fair and ethical and delivers through innovation."
"We intend to enhance that reputation over the lifetime of this Statement Of Strategy - one which will take us to the end of the first decade of this new Millennium."
The existing Cutter, R.C.C. Suirbhéir was built by Uudenkaupungin Tyovene in Finland at a cost of €1.6 million and has been involved in operations aimed at controlling the smuggling of drugs around the Irish coastline since its introduction in June 2004.
The existing Customs x-ray container scanner, built by Nuctech in China at a cost of €3 million, was introduced in February 2006. It has been a successful addition to Revenue's drug interdiction resource and has proved its worth in a very short time - contributing to the seizure of drugs and other contraband to a value of €23 million.

Goldie fish
16th February 2008, 15:16
Customs secure €6.3m equipment boost in battle against drug smuggling

By Noel Baker
THE Revenue Commissioners are to spend up to €6.3 million on new equipment aimed at cutting the amount of drugs being smuggled into the country.


It was announced yesterday that Revenue will buy a second Customs Cutter vessel and a second X-ray scanner that will be used by Customs officers.

The plans to buy the cutter and scanner were announced yesterday at a ceremony in Dublin at which the Revenue Commissioners also unveiled its sixth Statement of Strategy.





The new equipment will cost a combined total of up to €6.3m and is a response to the increased quantities of drugs being smuggled into the country in recent years.

The existing Custom’s Cutter, called the RCC Suirbhear and which cost €1.6m when commissioned in 2004, is currently based in Cork Harbour. It has six crew and was recently involved in the seizure of €105m worth of cocaine at Dunlough Bay off the Co Cork coast.

It will now be joined by the new cutter vessel, which will cost €2.3m, the Revenue press office said yesterday.

As for the existing Customs Mobile X-Ray Container Scanner, it cost €3m and is used to detect drugs and contraband and can scan containers, trailers and vehicles in less than 30 minutes. Since it was purchased in February 2006 it has already been involved in the seizure of €17m worth of drugs and the seizure of cigarettes worth €6.3m.

Even though that scanner was only launched two years ago, another scanner will now be bought and is likely to cost between €3m and €4m.

Revenue said it was still considering where both the new cutter and scanner will be located, and added that both pieces of equipment are expected to be delivered and in operation by the end of 2009.

The new Revenue Commissioner’s Strategy also highlights the need for increased efforts to prevent drug smuggling.

In addition to its other priorities, such as ensuring general tax compliance and combating tax and customs evasion, the Strategy states that there will be “a particular focus on tackling the growing threat of drugs smuggling”.

The purchase of the scanner, cutter and the publication of the new Revenue Strategy was welcomed by Tanaiste Brian Cowen, who claimed the investments were “tangible examples” of efforts by Revenue and Government to tackle the drugs problem.

Minister with Special Responsibility for Drugs Strategy and Community Affairs, Pat Carey, who also attended yesterday’s event said: “The purchase of a second cutter and scanner, both of which are hoped to be in service next year, underscores the Customs Service commitment to the National Drug Strategy and to protecting society.”

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=55409-qqqx=1.asp

DeV
16th February 2008, 17:33
I worked in a ship line office for a short while one point. Under SOLAS/ISPS the Dutch scan a percentage of containers (selected randomly, but also depending on suspicious paperwork etc). As the threat level goes up the more they scan.


One point I liked about this was the consignee had to pay for the scan (I think it was €150 at the time).

If the Revenue do the same they will pay for it after scanning around 26,000 containers. To put that in persceptive, Dublin Port handled 675,000 TEUs in 2006 (and that is just Lo/Lo).

Goldie fish
17th February 2008, 11:30
Any indication whether the new cutter will be the same size, or larger?

Silver
20th February 2008, 21:20
Great to hear that the Customs service is finally getting more cutters!

However,

Is it time for the Customs service to be established independent of Revenue?

I recently heard some comments by Customs personnel that many of them are somewhat tired of the lack of investment in equipment. And also that fact that the Revenue's primary task is to collect revenue....and there's no money to be gained in finding drugs, etc.....hence Customs has always been treated as the 'poor cousin' when it comes to investment in equipment?!

pmtts
20th February 2008, 21:26
I recently heard some comments by Customs personnel that many of them are somewhat tired of the lack of investment in equipment. And also that fact that the Revenue's primary task is to collect revenue....and there's no money to be gained in finding drugs, etc.....hence Customs has always been treated as the 'poor cousin' when it comes to investment in equipment?!

I wonder if that's the reason HM Customs & Excise are now HM Revenue & Customs!!

Goldie fish
20th February 2008, 21:28
It is a bit odd that the same people tasked with the prevention of smuggling are also responsible for the collection of Vehicle Registration Tax.

pmtts
20th February 2008, 21:31
It is a bit odd that the same people tasked with the prevention of smuggling are also responsible for the collection of Vehicle Registration Tax.

Could'nt agree more. Instead of having a dedicated website that explains the work of the Customs and the National Investigative Unit, you are now dazzled with child benefit, national insurance and VAT!!! :mad:

Goldie fish
20th February 2008, 21:46
Dippin diesel one day, checkin customs seals on containers next.

DeV
21st February 2008, 20:34
Could'nt agree more. Instead of having a dedicated website that explains the work of the Customs and the National Investigative Unit, you are now dazzled with child benefit, national insurance and VAT!!! :mad:

http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/services/customs/cndt.htm

pmtts
21st February 2008, 20:40
http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/services/customs/cndt.htm


Sorry Dev, I should have been more specific. I was refering to HM Customs :rolleyes:

Goldie fish
21st February 2008, 21:38
If there is anyone on the site actually working in the Irish Revenue Comissioners, could they PM me? Thank you.

ZULU
21st February 2008, 22:39
:biggrin: :tongue: Just thinking, gone are the days now that the Customs Delta Rib would come and check up on the visitors, now its the Cutter. Moving on up !

ocean
21st February 2008, 23:15
Sorry, but I do not agree that we need a new cutter, we are trying to build the trappings of an empire and yet we have just over 4 million people. Customs craft, RNLI Craft, Navel Services. We are surrounded by the roughest seas in the world and we think that a 20metre craft is going to help sort our problems! Perception is fine - but lets get real and not waste taxpayers money. We need to enable things so that the seagoing agencies we have already can be focussed on the remit. What we need is joined up institutions.

Goldie fish
22nd February 2008, 09:01
Like the US Coastguard perhaps? All your maritime agencies from maritime policing, to maritime safety and marine superintendants, along with search and rescue, buoyage and training under one agency. For a small nation it would make sense.

Which is probably why it won't happen. Too much empire building to upset.

Silver
22nd February 2008, 20:53
Wasnt the idea of a dedicated Coastguard agency (incorporating the NS) mooted by Smithy when he was defence minister, and shot down by all and sundry??

Personally i dont think it will happen. In it's absence I believe the Customs service should be a stand-alone service with a small fleet of cutters and a couple of maritime patrol surveillance aircraft (perhaps piloted/operated by the AC).

Goldie fish
22nd February 2008, 22:08
Wasnt the idea of a dedicated Coastguard agency (incorporating the NS) mooted by Smithy when he was defence minister, and shot down by all and sundry??

Personally i dont think it will happen. In it's absence I believe the Customs service should be a stand-alone service with a small fleet of cutters and a couple of maritime patrol surveillance aircraft (perhaps piloted/operated by the AC).

Would that not completely duplicate the functions of the Naval service? How many navies does a small island need?

DeV
23rd February 2008, 16:30
The Report on the NS and AC investigated turning the NS into a multi-role coastguard type agency.

Goldie fish
23rd February 2008, 16:52
It did so on the basis of removing any resemblence to a military, even self defence capability, and was rejected.

Jetjock
7th March 2008, 18:16
Having a bit of a you tube afternoon and came across this. Apologies if it has been posted before. Shows the rear launching and recovery mechanism in operation.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dEQuR0GR7Sw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dEQuR0GR7Sw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Goldie fish
3rd April 2008, 23:21
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3793&g2_serialNumber=1

Leave any vehicle in Cobh unattended long enough and it'll end up on blocks...

RCC Suirbheir gets her bottom scrubbed.

wat flies dies
6th April 2008, 13:44
New customs cutter on the way shortly.....3m longer, pretty much same design

Goldie fish
8th April 2008, 19:02
Suirbheir has re-equipped with a larger, twin outboard RIB in place of its previous waterjet model.

O'Duffy
8th April 2008, 19:16
Suirbheir has re-equipped with a larger, twin outboard RIB in place of its previous waterjet model.

What was wrong with the waterjet model? Was it just too small or was waterjet propulsion problematic?

Goldie fish
8th April 2008, 21:06
I'd say having a second engine is better practice. Then again, it was mentioned earlier that the Suirhheir was seen doing the routine boardings that the Revenue RIB used to do. Maybe the Larger RIB is better for boarding?

ZULU
9th April 2008, 14:03
Some of the boats I've encountered in Cork Harbour with JEt Drive have ad problems with floating weed/jellyfish in the intakes.

Single diesel engine also add to weight and space.

What engines are on the new rib? Twin 90 E-Tecs would be nice

GoneToTheCanner
9th April 2008, 15:38
Cheeky hoors! they'll want helicopters flown by Air corps pilots next...oh, wait...
regards
GttC

Goldie fish
10th April 2008, 21:52
Some of the boats I've encountered in Cork Harbour with JEt Drive have ad problems with floating weed/jellyfish in the intakes.

Single diesel engine also add to weight and space.

What engines are on the new rib? Twin 90 E-Tecs would be nice

2x Johnson 90HP

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3813&g2_serialNumber=1

ZULU
11th April 2008, 00:30
When your this good! :biggrin:

Delta and twin 90's are a rock solid bet.

The Evinrude / Johnson V4 Ficht Injection system is damn good.

The only thing that would beat that would be the E-Tecs and their guarantee.

Nice choice

Goldie fish
11th April 2008, 02:47
Wonder where the Boomeranger ended up?

Goldie fish
12th April 2008, 14:14
On a slightly connected Note:

53. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance if an evaluation of coastal surveillance and air-sea rescue has been undertaken with particular reference to the need for enhanced activity arising from drug smuggling around the coast of Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13770/08]

Tánaiste and Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Cowen): I am advised by the Revenue Commissioners that they constantly evaluate their maritime intelligence gathering and coastal surveillance activities. Revenue’s Customs Service works proactively with an Garda Síochána and the Naval Service in the fight against drug trafficking by sea as part of the Joint Task Force on Drugs Interdiction.

In addition to national patrolling and surveillance activities, the Customs Service also participates in a number of international Joint Surveillance Operations each year. These operations have proved to be particularly successful in improving the sharing of intelligence within the law enforcement community and in the deployment of operational resources to prevent the trafficking of drugs into the EU. As part of the Customs Drugswatch programme, a confidential 24/7 freephone is also promoted and maintained as a communications channel for the maritime and coastal communities to report suspicious activity.

Drug trafficking has become increasingly globalised in its nature. On 30 September 2007 year in a combined response to this threat, Ireland and six other EU states established a Maritime Operations and Analysis Centre - Narcotics in Lisbon, Portugal. The Commissioners are currently arranging for the recruitment of a Customs Liaison Officer for assignment to Lisbon. This centre, which is supported by the US authorities, is already playing a leading role in the fight against the trafficking of drugs, particularly cocaine, into the EU from South America and also from West Africa, which is increasingly being used as a staging post. Earlier this year at the launch of the Commissioners’ new Statement of Strategy, I was pleased to announce the decision to purchase a second Customs Cutter to complement the important work being done by the RCC Suirbhéir. It is expected that this new vessel will be commissioned next year. My Department does not have responsibility for air-sea rescue.

Goldie fish
18th April 2008, 21:22
The Boomeranger with Jet drive is Back on board. The Delta must have been a temporary arrangement.

In other News, A 26m Fisheries Protection Boat has recently been delivered in the UK. Built by Uki Workboats, where Suirbheir was built.£1.5m it cost them.

http://media.shipspotting.com/uploads/thumbs/Ship+Photo+North+Eastern+Guardian+III/533499_800.jpg

Goldie fish
6th July 2008, 23:14
So it seems the boomeranger was away getting her engine modified.
Spot the difference.
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4129&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4132&g2_serialNumber=1

Victor
8th July 2008, 04:13
While she definitely looks white in this pic

http://www.revenue.ie/annualreport/annualreport_2004/en/images/goal1_pic1.jpg

Shes ambiguous in this one

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3793&g2_serialNumber=1

But definitely grey here:

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4132&g2_serialNumber=1

I though that they was a generally accepteed international demarcation between white and grey.

Goldie fish
8th July 2008, 08:58
FAIL!!

Only the Boomeranger changed, but how?

O'Duffy
8th July 2008, 13:42
FAIL!!

Only the Boomeranger changed, but how?

I thought it was to be refitted with twin outboard? Or was it that it had twins and was replaced with waterjet propulsion?

ZULU
8th July 2008, 20:14
Suirbheir has re-equipped with a larger, twin outboard RIB in place of its previous waterjet model.


Some of the boats I've encountered in Cork Harbour with JEt Drive have ad problems with floating weed/jellyfish in the intakes.

Single diesel engine also add to weight and space.

What engines are on the new rib? Twin 90 E-Tecs would be nice


So it seems the boomeranger was away getting her engine modified.
Spot the difference.


What looks to be a mercruiser stern drive unit replacing the water jet drive unit. Possibly for the reasons I mentioned previously

Goldie fish
8th July 2008, 20:30
Please collect a prize from the top shelf.

Simple answer, Jet drive gone, replaced by prop.
She was "busy" in Dingle earlier. Nice work.

Goldie fish
24th July 2008, 19:22
According to todays Echo, the Second Revenue Cutter is due to be delivered next September.

Goldie fish
20th October 2008, 03:57
I see in this months "Ships Monthly" that work has begun on the new Customs Cutter in Tyovene OY, (UKI Workboats LTD)of Finland. Costing €2.7m, the new Vessel will be similar to the 22.7m Suirbheir, but will be a frame longer, at around 25m, and is expected to be launched in September 2009.

goc132
20th October 2008, 08:51
I know the answer to the question before I ask it ,But are the Customs Officers allowed carry Firearms or do they bring members of the Gardai(Armed) or Naval Officers who are armed with them on patrols or does this boat board illegal boats?

Goldie fish
20th October 2008, 17:16
Don't ask.

Goldie fish
17th September 2009, 14:37
I see in this months "Ships Monthly" that work has begun on the new Customs Cutter in Tyovene OY, (UKI Workboats LTD)of Finland. Costing €2.7m, the new Vessel will be similar to the 22.7m Suirbheir, but will be a frame longer, at around 25m, and is expected to be launched in September 2009.


Customs Service.

274. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Finance if he will guarantee that the new cutter boat which is about to be brought into service by the Revenue Commissioner’s will regularly patrol the west coast of Ireland in order to enhance drugs surveillance; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30878/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): The new cutter as with the existing cutter will have a national remit, including the west coast of Ireland. Either or both vessels can and will be deployed to patrol and carry out operations along that coastline as and when required. The practice with the existing cutter is that deployments consist of a mixture of routine patrols and specific risk-driven taskings. This practice will continue, enhanced by the increased capability of the Revenue Commissioners with two cutters.

I have been informed by the Revenue Commissioners that sea trials are due to commence next week at the shipyard in Finland, where the second Revenue Cutter was built. Following those trials and any necessary changes to the vessel, shipyard personnel are due to deliver the cutter to Ireland for handover to Revenue Customs in the last week of September. The actual delivery date is dependent on the duration of the sea trials and weather conditions during the voyage from Finland to Ireland. Allowing for a short period of time for crew familiarisation, it is expected that the cutter will come into full service in the second half of October.

Customs Service.

289. Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Finance if a second Revenue cutter will be delivered in September 2009 as planned; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31394/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): I have been informed by the Revenue Commissioners that sea trials are due to commence next week at the shipyard in Finland, where the second Revenue Cutter was built. Following those trials and any necessary changes to the vessel, shipyard personnel are due to deliver the cutter to Ireland for handover to Revenue Customs in the last week of September. The actual delivery date is dependent on the duration of the sea trials and weather conditions during the voyage from Finland to Ireland. Allowing for a short period of time for crew familiarisation, it is expected that the cutter will come into full service in the second half of October.

A/TEL
30th September 2009, 22:33
Customs Service.

274. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Finance if he will guarantee that the new cutter boat which is about to be brought into service by the Revenue Commissioner’s will regularly patrol the west coast of Ireland in order to enhance drugs surveillance; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30878/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): The new cutter as with the existing cutter will have a national remit, including the west coast of Ireland. Either or both vessels can and will be deployed to patrol and carry out operations along that coastline as and when required. The practice with the existing cutter is that deployments consist of a mixture of routine patrols and specific risk-driven taskings. This practice will continue, enhanced by the increased capability of the Revenue Commissioners with two cutters.

I have been informed by the Revenue Commissioners that sea trials are due to commence next week at the shipyard in Finland, where the second Revenue Cutter was built. Following those trials and any necessary changes to the vessel, shipyard personnel are due to deliver the cutter to Ireland for handover to Revenue Customs in the last week of September. The actual delivery date is dependent on the duration of the sea trials and weather conditions during the voyage from Finland to Ireland. Allowing for a short period of time for crew familiarisation, it is expected that the cutter will come into full service in the second half of October.

Customs Service.

289. Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Finance if a second Revenue cutter will be delivered in September 2009 as planned; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31394/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): I have been informed by the Revenue Commissioners that sea trials are due to commence next week at the shipyard in Finland, where the second Revenue Cutter was built. Following those trials and any necessary changes to the vessel, shipyard personnel are due to deliver the cutter to Ireland for handover to Revenue Customs in the last week of September. The actual delivery date is dependent on the duration of the sea trials and weather conditions during the voyage from Finland to Ireland. Allowing for a short period of time for crew familiarisation, it is expected that the cutter will come into full service in the second half of October.






Arrived today in Cork Harbour escorted in by Suirbheir and two Customs RIBs

knocker
30th September 2009, 22:40
Any pictures ?

Goldie fish
1st October 2009, 06:42
nice of em to wait till I got back from my hols..

Goldie fish
1st October 2009, 21:48
Any pictures ?

As expected.

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=5050&g2_serialNumber=1
New Cutter on the right.
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=5055&g2_serialNumber=1
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=5057&g2_serialNumber=1

The difference between Faire and Suirbheir are not obvious, but the crew are quite happy with them. The Boomeranger has a jet drive again. Possibly it makes sense to have one with Jet drive, and the other with Z drive Prop.
They are also a slightly different colour. Faire is closer to Naval Grey.

Lordinajamjar
2nd October 2009, 02:47
Nice pics well done Goldie.

Now please educate a non-irish speaker

Faire and Suirbheir translation.

Thanks

B Inman
2nd October 2009, 07:09
[QUOTE=


Now please educate a non-irish speaker

Faire and Suirbheir translation.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

faire = n lookout

faire = n surveillance


suirbhéir = n surveyor



http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/dictionary

Goldie fish
2nd October 2009, 08:11
In the old days, Suirbheir was a rank of customs officer.

Lordinajamjar
2nd October 2009, 20:21
faire = n lookout

faire = n surveillance


suirbhéir = n surveyor



http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/dictionary

Thanks Binman.

So I guess Lookout and Surveyor are it then.

Goldie fish
3rd October 2009, 00:02
Similar to the HM customs naming pattern, Searcher, Seeker, Vigilant etc.

http://media.shipspotting.com/uploads/thumbs/rw/992420_800/Ship+Photo+FAIRE.jpg

Another shot of Faire, making her way from the Builders along the Kiel Canal.

Compare her with Suirbheir, seen here on the River lee.
The differences are very subtle.
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=233&g2_serialNumber=2

johnny no stars
16th October 2009, 17:33
Think I spied this today... Was gonna get a pic, then wasn't bothered getting off the bus and walking the rest of the way home...

johnny no stars
17th October 2009, 17:39
What I actually saw yesterday was both Faire and Suibheir. Today I got to have a little tour around Faire too and took some pictures. Will post them up whenever I can as someone has misplaced my card reader:mad:

johnny no stars
15th January 2010, 23:04
For anyone who's interested, pictures of Faire (and a couple of Suirbheir) from 17 October are now located in the gallery here:

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_itemId=5048

Tyronesteve
13th June 2010, 13:11
Why are these ships in customs and not coastguard

Goldie fish
13th July 2010, 12:48
Why are these ships in customs and not coastguard

Because the coastguard have no law enforcement function, nor do they carry out any other tasks that the Revenue Customs cutter have.
The Coastguard are primarily a search and rescue agency. The customs cutters are designed for surveillance and boarding of small craft.... not rescuing people.

The question should be why are they not in the Naval Service.

easyrider
14th July 2010, 11:02
Agreed that they should be in the NS. Can't remember hearing anything about the activities of these Customs cutters - do they get up to much? Are they earning their keep?

Laners
14th July 2010, 12:29
Regardless of who is operating these cutters the are not suitable for the tasks required of them .Neither Service would have much success with them .

Goldie fish
14th July 2010, 12:59
Would they be much use for inshore fishieries work?

ZULU
14th July 2010, 13:08
Would they be much use for inshore fishieries work?

Put a pot hauler on them and they'd be a damn sight better than the Aquastars

ZULU
14th July 2010, 13:11
Taken 28 June afternoon - Kinsale harbour

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4742348996_743dcc5b5c_b.jpg

easyrider
14th July 2010, 14:26
Regardless of who is operating these cutters the are not suitable for the tasks required of them .Neither Service would have much success with them .

Would something like the UK cutters be more suitable?

http://www.caithness.org/photos/boats/valiant/valiant.jpg

Goldie fish
28th February 2013, 20:28
Customs Cutters

102. Deputy David Stanton

asked the Minister for Finance if he will outline the role of the two Customs Cutters; the number of seizures and value of same made by those Cutters in 2010, 2011 and 2012; the costs associated with each of these two vessels respectively in each of the respctive years; the number of personnel assigned to each vessel; his future plans for the Customs Maritime Service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10733/13]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Michael Noonan): I am informed by Revenue that the role of the Maritime Unit, equipped with the two Revenue Customs Cutters, is to exercise responsibility for the customs function around the Irish coast and in territorial waters, up to 12 miles offshore. The primary aim of coastal activity is to prevent, detect and deter smuggling and illegal importation of controlled drugs and other goods. It involves co-operation between land-based Revenue and gardaí, the Maritime Unit and the Navy, and of course international authorities. The Revenue Maritime Unit completes the range of responses now regarded as standard in international anti-smuggling activities.


The use of cutters in Ireland was adopted having regard to the need to fill a gap between land-based resources and the Navy. The choice of robust seagoing vessels was necessary for safe and effective operation in variable weather and sea conditions. Internationally, the use of this kind of vessel is now standard. The benefits are in gathering intelligence, providing a visible customs presence in coastal waters, and widening the scope of Revenue capability. While searches (rummages) are carried out by the cutters, it is most unusual for them to seize more than small amounts of prohibited substances. Seizures are more usually done onshore, at the point of disembarkation, for safety reasons. Their intelligence and expertise have, however, contributed considerably to successful high profile operations, both nationally and internationally.


The range of cutter activities mirrors that of land-based customs officers and includes:


- Patrol of the external frontier to outer limits of Territorial Sea (12 mile limit).


- Monitoring (overt & covert) all vessel movements - Assess, Board, Rummage as required.


- Enforcement of import and export prohibitions and restrictions.


- Identification and securing of outstanding VAT/duty liability on pleasure craft.


- Information/Intelligence management.


- International anti-smuggling operations at sea.


- Managing and monitoring maritime information systems.


- Servicing national and international MOUs and Mutual Assistance requests.


- Supporting national anti-smuggling operations.


- Developing and servicing coastal contacts (Customs Drugs Watch Programme).


The principal costs associated with the operation of the cutters are fuel costs, operational maintenance costs and staffing costs. Each cutter has a crew of six, and is at sea for more then 200 days per annum, with 24/7/365 availability. The fuel and maintenance costs for two cutters was €299,411 in 2012; €337,340 in 2011; and €331,473 in 2010.


As an island nation the provision of customs cutters to police our maritime frontiers is regarded as an essential investment. The cost and adequacy of the present level of provision is continually reviewed. For the moment, Revenue are satisfied that they have an effective service at reasonable cost, that meets their foreseeable needs

GoneToTheCanner
28th February 2013, 22:19
The reason they're not Naval Vessels is that some clever operator won the turf war this time and outplayed the Navy at their own game, ie, State ships at sea.

regards
GttC

Goldie fish
28th February 2013, 23:03
In the rest of Europe, this is not a Naval role either. France, Spain, Holland and the UK have had similar craft carrying out this role for many years.

pym
1st March 2013, 00:23
When the custom cutters are sent on a diplo trip to China, you know it's end times.

GoneToTheCanner
1st March 2013, 10:43
I'll bet Customs in those countries have a much more robust mandate and the equipment to back them up. Customs men in France are armed.

regards
GttC

Goldie fish
1st March 2013, 11:12
All police are also armed.
They actually work with the same laws as here. They are more or less identical Europe wide.

Jetjock
1st March 2013, 11:29
Given the cost of fuel, those running costs seem very low. You would have to wonder as to how many patrol days they are doing. Is there still NS officers attached?

Goldie fish
1st March 2013, 12:50
No. A naval Officer was only attached for the initial training phase on Suirbheir, apparently.

MGO is about 95c/litre. If you assume that 2/3 of the cost is fuel, that would be about 100,000 litres a year each. they have a 9000L tank, you could assume that it is enough to support the vessel for a week.
We could assume that a 970KW engine burns roughly 200L per hour. Each cutter has 2. so 400l/hr.
That gives me (and I'm open to correction) 250 hours running!?!? Thats about enough for a month at sea if you do no more than 8 hours steaming per day.

DeV
1st March 2013, 13:25
No. A naval Officer was only attached for the initial training phase on Suirbheir, apparently.

MGO is about 95c/litre. If you assume that 2/3 of the cost is fuel, that would be about 100,000 litres a year each. they have a 9000L tank, you could assume that it is enough to support the vessel for a week.
We could assume that a 970KW engine burns roughly 200L per hour. Each cutter has 2. so 400l/hr.
That gives me (and I'm open to correction) 250 hours running!?!? Thats about enough for a month at sea if you do no more than 8 hours steaming per day.

Is that per vessel?

Either way that is shocking!!!!

How many patrol days, would the cost of the 2 vessels, the wages & allowances, maintenance and running cost, would the NS have provided for the same cost each year?? (The NS being multi-role)!

Jetjock
1st March 2013, 13:49
That is absolutely shocking. Sign them over to the NS.Attach a customs officer and actually use them. The lack of actual figures provided by the minister relating to seizures was a good pointer.

Intelligence gathering my h*le. Nothing more than trophy assets for Customs.

Relating to those figures, can we assume that our tax enforcing pleasure trippers are VAT exempt? Not that it makes much difference.

Goldie fish
1st March 2013, 14:37
As a state owned asset, they are not VAT exempt. Quite the opposite.
They missed the Dunlough bay seizure, left it to the RNLI. They arrived in Castletownbere just on time to get into the news cameras as the Navy arrived with Dances with Waves.

However they are an available asset. Like the Army tanks.

As for how much the NS would have provided for the same fee, considering it's just fuel and Maintenance, just take a look at the Naval Fuel and Maintenance bill for an 8 ship fleet, with each ship at sea for 180 days per year.

DeV
1st March 2013, 15:43
That is absolutely shocking. Sign them over to the NS.Attach a customs officer and actually use them. The lack of actual figures provided by the minister relating to seizures was a good pointer.

Intelligence gathering my h*le. Nothing more than trophy assets for Customs.

Relating to those figures, can we assume that our tax enforcing pleasure trippers are VAT exempt? Not that it makes much difference.

In fairness they can probably go places the NS can't (assuming they have shallower draft).

An NS PO or above has the same drug enforcement powers as Customs AFAIK.

They are probably a deterrent for the smaller fry and good for searching islands etc (but the NS could do that too).




As a state owned asset, they are not VAT exempt. Quite the opposite.
They missed the Dunlough bay seizure, left it to the RNLI. They arrived in Castletownbere just on time to get into the news cameras as the Navy arrived with Dances with Waves.

However they are an available asset. Like the Army tanks.

As for how much the NS would have provided for the same fee, considering it's just fuel and Maintenance, just take a look at the Naval Fuel and Maintenance bill for an 8 ship fleet, with each ship at sea for 180 days per year.
True!
It would make an impact though eg PDA in 2011 cost €3.4 million.

Jetjock
1st March 2013, 17:44
I'd have to disagree with the comparison to the Army tanks Goldie.

If you purchase not one, but two fully kitted out customs cutters you are by definition implying that there is more work than one alone can handle. If you buy them and work them as little as they are being worked, showing up for the cameras, they are a trophy asset.

The tanks, bought 30 years ago are merely a continuation of a limited tracked capability that the DF has had for 70 odd years. Use them or not, their cost today is a pittance and with that in mind,the retention of a limited tracked capability is worth doing. Deploy them or not.

If two vessels don't do enough work for one, sign them over to someone with the expertise and experience to operate them to their capacity. Crew them with NS and attach a customs officer and you'd up the utilisation rate straight away to something more realistic.

Given the NS already operate in the counter drug/smuggling role there is already an unnecessary cross over of task. Most of the NS day to day tasks are law enforcement in nature anyway, despite the stated primary role being defence which is a little optimistic with current equipment, however effective it is for EEZ patrol.

There is precedence with Garda aircraft operated by the Air Corps.

This fragmentation of similar asset types, operating in similar roles, under different umbrella organisations might work well in bigger richer countries but here it's hard to describe the initial outlay on these vessels by our tax enforcement authorities as providing value for tax payers money.

I put a lot of weight in your assessment of all things maritime and your theorised utilisation figures are as good for me as documentary evidence . They are absolutely appalling.

Come-quickly
1st March 2013, 18:49
Also, the navy could put guns on them.

Which is hot.

Goldie fish
1st March 2013, 18:53
Historically, there has always been a Customs Maritime unit, going back to the foundation of the state. Prior to the introduction of the cutters, there were numerous 7m Ribs, trailer launched, for working in the many sheltered inlets about.
Where necessary customs officers could travel (within the 12 mile limit) with Naval Vessels. However once the naval vessel goes outside 12 miles, the customs man has no function.
I doubt the current flag would be happy restricting his ships to within 12 miles, no more than the Revenue commissioners would want their people acting as passengers on a warship heading to an incident 100 miles off the NW coast.

I understand a requirement for a dedicated cutter unit was identified when the frontier checks came down. We have gone down that road we cannot now go back, no more than you can put toothpaste back in the tube.
The cutters must remain in customs use. I believe that having them, and not utilising them fully, is far better than not having them at all.
Better to be looking at it than looking for it.

DeV
1st March 2013, 19:17
In fairness a vessel can't be in 2 places at once.

It doesn't make any sense whatever to have 2 organisations doing the job (VFM or operational)! The whole reason the JTF was formed was because there was too many organisations and there was a turf war going on between GNDU and Customs that was leading to more drugs getting into the country.

As I already stated there is no need to have a Customs Officer on board if you are looking for drugs.

danno
1st March 2013, 22:06
No. A naval Officer was only attached for the initial training phase on Suirbheir, apparently.

MGO is about 95c/litre. If you assume that 2/3 of the cost is fuel, that would be about 100,000 litres a year each. they have a 9000L tank, you could assume that it is enough to support the vessel for a week.
We could assume that a 970KW engine burns roughly 200L per hour. Each cutter has 2. so 400l/hr.
That gives me (and I'm open to correction) 250 hours running!?!? Thats about enough for a month at sea if you do no more than 8 hours steaming per day.

Ppoor VFM as this calc suggests 5 hours per week or one per day hardly enough to clear Roches Point and Back

Goldie fish
1st March 2013, 23:02
If they are actually at sea for 200 days a year, then they never make it past the old head of Kinsale....from their berth in Kinsale.

hptmurphy
1st March 2013, 23:15
The customs needs to be independent from the NS like the Air wing of the coast guard needed to be independent of the Air Corps.

they were bought when the country was a little more flush and were considered perfect for the job. The NS role is not to replace that of the customs but that of support, like policing and the army,they should never be crossed over.

While limited, they provide a service the NS can support but should not be tasked with specifically.The customs like the GS need to remain independent from the Defence forces.

They are not Naval Assets and could perform some inshore tasks, theres nothing there that either Peacocks or RHIBs deployed from larger ships can't do if tasked.They do have the advantage of being available solely for Customs ops, while the NS have to b retasked or subject to planned operations.

If anything their use needs to be optimized even if it requires multiple crews.

danno
2nd March 2013, 23:39
If they are actually at sea for 200 days a year, then they never make it past the old head of Kinsale....from their berth in Kinsale.

Must be a handy number.

Marius
11th March 2013, 23:18
I was just thinking that. The Minister's contention that they do 200 days per year sounds...optimistic...to me.

Goldie fish
15th March 2013, 20:39
This is how the aussies do it.



Austal’s First Cape-Class Patrol Boat Officially Named
.

By Rob Almeida On March 15, 2013


http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Cape1-767-pixels-wide.jpg



Cape St. George, image: Austal

Austal announced today their first-in-series Cape Class Patrol Boat built for the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service has been officially named the Cape St George during a ceremony held at Austal’s Henderson shipyard in Western Australia.

Cape St George is the first of eight new boats being built by Austal under a design, construct and in-service support contract valued at approximately A$330 million.

The vessel was launched at Austal’s Henderson shipyard in January and has since undergone final fit out and sea trials, with some other testing to be completed prior to final delivery.

All eight patrol boats are expected to be delivered by August 2015.

http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Cape3-767pixels.jpg
Image: Austal

Austal’s role extends beyond the design and construction of the vessels however.

The company is also using its in-house expertise to develop and integrate sophisticated electronic systems for command, control and communication. In addition, Austal will also perform ongoing in-service support for the Cape Class fleet over at least eight years, encompassing a full range of intermediate and depot level maintenance activities, valued at a minimum of A$50 million.

“Our ability to deliver the systems and support for the Cape Class fleet demonstrates our total solution capability, which represents the future of our Australian business,” notes Andrew Bellamy, Austal’s Chief Executive Officer.

“We will continue to expand and enhance the strategic industry capability necessary to meet the current and future defence needs of Australia and other nations.”

Construction of the second Cape vessel is well underway, with the keel laid in January, while work has commenced on the third Cape vessel.

Apart from the Cape Class Patrol Boats, Austal is prime contractor for two major defence projects – the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) and the Joint High Speed Vessel (JHSV) – for the United States Navy.


http://gcaptain.com/austals-cape-class-patrol-boat/

GoneToTheCanner
16th March 2013, 13:07
Can these Customs cutters go up rivers? is it in their remit to patrol inland waters, as well, if they have to?

regards
GttC

Goldie fish
16th March 2013, 14:14
What river do you speak of? Any inshore work is done with RIBS from what I have seen.

danno
16th March 2013, 19:30
In Dec05 the Surveher assisted in a fag bust in N'Ross being 20 miles up the estuary.The bridge stops anything bigger than a canal barge going further.

DeV
11th August 2013, 10:31
Were 3 Customs vessels planned?

Just came across this:
Planned locations were Rosslare, Cork and Shannon

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2000/05/31/00103.asp

Goldie fish
11th August 2013, 10:36
We were very lucky to get the 2nd. It is unfortunate that they were so short sighted in picking the current design.

danno
11th August 2013, 10:50
Seems to be a sound allweather design and much better than the craft chosen by the GS.

Goldie fish
11th August 2013, 11:11
The Problem with the GS craft was it had to be road transportable. The Targa is a fine boat and works grand for what they use it. (i.e fishing trips).
Other police forces also use the Targa(Met Police for example). It is ideal for the Shannon.

http://cdn2.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/9/7/3/1643379.jpg

danno
11th August 2013, 22:19
The cutters are rated for 60miles offshore,is the GS just for sheltered waters only.

Goldie fish
11th August 2013, 22:29
I read in a press blurb they are good for 12 miles. There is a Privately owned one in Cork that regularly makes it from Cork to Kinsale.

DeV
11th August 2013, 22:45
The cutters are rated for 60miles offshore,is the GS just for sheltered waters only.


I read in a press blurb they are good for 12 miles. There is a Privately owned one in Cork that regularly makes it from Cork to Kinsale.

GS wouldn't have any powers outside 12 NM surely?

danno
11th August 2013, 22:53
I read in a press blurb they are good for 12 miles. There is a Privately owned one in Cork that regularly makes it from Cork to Kinsale.

Just wondering as the GS unit,unlike the cutters does not appear to be licenced by DoT (poss exempt...any takers)

Goldie fish
11th August 2013, 22:55
Why would they need to be licenced?

danno
11th August 2013, 23:03
Thats the question,the cutters are licensed and would have a similiar role to the GS,if one why at all or not all.

Goldie fish
15th August 2013, 20:05
http://marinelink.com/Images/Show.aspx?aid=17061&width=250&height=400&/Austal cape class.jpg
Keel Laid for Third Cape-class Patrol Boat at Austal Shipyard

Thursday, August 15, 2013

Keel Laid for Third Cape-class Patrol Boat at Austal Shipyard
Demonstrating the rapid progress of the Cape-class Patrol Boat Program, Austal has hosted the keel-laying ceremony for the third vessel, 'Cape Nelson', one of eight 56-metre patrol boats that Austal is designing, building and supporting for the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service.

The three coins were placed under the keel block by Michael Pezzullo, Chief Executive Officer, Australian Customs and Border Protection Services; David Brekenridge, Chief Engineer Australian Customs and Border Protection Services; and Graham Backhouse, President and General Manager Austal. In doing so, the keel block was formally positioned by two of Austal’s apprentices, Wes Ramshaw and Jacob Kerr.
Austal was awarded the contract for the design, construction and through-life support of the Cape Class patrol boats for the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service in August 2011. The eight 58 metre aluminium monohulls are due to be delivered between March 2013 and August 2015.

The Cape-class Patrol Boats will be able to:

Undertake 28 day patrols;
Sail 4,000 nautical miles before having to refuel;
Combat the full range of maritime security threats;
Carry a larger crew to more effectively and safely manage boarding operations;
Identify, track and intercept an extended range of threats in the maritime domain and gather intelligence and store evidence for matters that may proceed to the courts; and
Launch two Tender Response Vessels simultaneously.

Customs and Border Protection patrol boats may be deployed according to aerial surveillance, community reports and/or radar sightings.
Pictured: Michael Pezzullo, Chief Executive Officer, Australian Customs and Border Protection Services; David Brekenridge, Chief Engineer Australian Customs and Border Protection Services; and Graham Backhouse, President and General Manager Austal.
http://www3.marinelink.com/Story/ShowStory.aspx?StoryID=236308

http://www.austal.com/Libraries/News-Release-Images/CCPB-resized-1.jpg
http://www.skipsrevyen.no/thumbnail.php?file=0001/vestavit_741980077.jpg&size=article_large