View Full Version : Naval ASW

4th June 2004, 17:50
Goldie Fish since you mention ASROCs ,Is the ability to destroy submarines necessary?
The ability to detect them may be but deploying the associated weapons is another matter.I have though heard that various submarines have came into the hands of criminal gangs (mostly south American drug runners) for the purpose of evading the various aerial and naval forces deplyed against the boats and planes they are currently using.I think they are mostly refering to mini submersible type vessels.I'm not sure if this is some urban legend or not.Could anyone provide clarification?
I suppose it won't be long until someone manages to nick a Kilo or an Akula or something off the Russians or bribe the crew into deserting especially with the current state of the Russian fleets.Imagine the quantity of drugs or weapons you can squeeze into one of those.

Goldie fish
4th June 2004, 17:58
When you say that,can you justify deploying any weapon?

4th June 2004, 18:20
True Goldie.Should have considered that a little more.I'd see the major problem being the training of INS crew in AS warfare.That would certainly be a major undertaking.If you are operating in a hostile environment you'll most likely be working with NATO navies who were playing that "game" against the Russians for decades.Also how many navies are you going to be coming up against that have any submarines? North Korea and Iran are the only unfriendly or potentially unfriendly navies with sub fleets likely to be of danger to EU interests (that I can think of right now).There is another potentially unfriendly large nation with an expanding subfleet that might be prowling worldwide waters in the coming decades but thats a different discussion

Goldie fish
4th June 2004, 18:29
We once had an ASW capability,but we lost it when the Corvettes were downgraded to fishery protection status in the early 60s. I Imagine there is nobody in the NS who trained on ASW apart from the officers who train with other Navies.

4th June 2004, 20:10
Even having some officers experiencing training abroad probably wouldn't be enough.I'd have to assume proper instructors would need to be trained to teach at home, initially students might have to go abroad to be taught in RN facilities, or with other navies.Maintaining facilities to keep up the training in Ireland would also be expensive.Probably another case of having to leave it to someone else.

8th June 2004, 16:27
Simple cheap computer simulators must be available.

8th June 2004, 16:31
Maybe, Either that or everyone gets issued a copy of the Hunt for Red October.

8th June 2004, 17:00
Well it obviously has to be practised regularly as well, the state has submersibles (think they belong to the Marine Institute) they could practise destroying.

8th June 2004, 18:38
Completely different ballgame with the submersibles.They are small, probably quite noisy and I assume have little relation to the performance of a real submarine thus being little use for practise.

9th June 2004, 14:45
The threat isn't just from Russian bloc, Iran, North Korea, etc

We have a responsibility to at least detect any submarines operating in Irish waters, NATO & Eastern bloc submarines have been using Irish waters for years, mainly submurged (againist iinternational law). Submarines are the suspected cause of many a fishing vessel sinking.

Also I would say that having a good anti-submarine capability would also improve underwater detection of wrecks, "Kursk" type situations, etc.

9th June 2004, 23:16
Not sure about the fishing vessels, but I agree with Brian. I also think that while ASW capability would be desired, all we'd really need is detection capabilities. We'd only need to know they're there, what exactly they are, then complain to the relevant govt. about sea sovereignty. I know it sounds toothless, but you go and try to get an Eithne size asw ship to beat an Akula!

9th June 2004, 23:24
I think the vessels should be armed with ASW weapons, whether it be an ASROC type system, torpedoes or depth charges. Or a simple solution is to have helicopters with a ASW capabilty, eg EH 101 Merlin, can detect / classify / destroy submarines.

super slug
18th January 2005, 03:51
what about the xo on Ciara??? He trained in the RN and specialised in submarine work.

18th January 2005, 04:15
Jesus who's submarines are we going to attack...Dev have a lok at the deck layout of a naval vessel...where are u going to put all this shite.

reality check.....eithe picked up a sub on operation Puple warrior 87....and yer man put down the boot...and vanished off the screen before the operator could look twice...modern anti sub vessels need to have speeds in excess of 30kts...to even track a sub...now the peacocks can do 27kts on a down hill slope with the wind behind them......the fitting out requirements for an asroc on a peacock would entail removing everything for'd of the funnel and abaft the bridge....

Ah whats the point I'm only troubling myself...ask....That guy who allegedly writes for janes...he builds ships of fantasy ..he knows that we need loads of this shite..(sarsfield)

Goldie would you ever put a thread closed on the whole of the NS section until somebody starts talking sense......

Goldie fish
18th January 2005, 21:52
While I don't think the entire section should be closed,this thread is definitely heading towards fantasy land. Take a look at the current USN ASW capability to see how seriously they take the sub threat.

Their FFGs are ancient,with no replacment in sight. ASW Vikings are being removed from the carriers,countries all over the world are dithering at replacing their fixed wing asw aircraft...Its as much a threat to us in modern warfare as tethered mines.

There are far more important things to worry about.

super slug
19th January 2005, 02:07
i must apologise for re-starting this thread. I was only answering a question that was a bit off topic. I completely agree by the way, an anti submarine course in the Irish Navy is a bit mad.

19th January 2005, 23:49
Good man ...unfortunately ...some will read and forget....and we'll be back to square one in a couple of months

The Joker
20th January 2005, 01:05
What is ASW?

20th January 2005, 02:38
Anti-Submarine Warfare

20th January 2005, 05:54
or as in the case of this thread...Anti Shite Warfare