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  • Cav vehicles(split from PSO)

    Mowags are an infantry Vehicle....


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  • #2
    Yes we know that Mowags are an infantry vehicle but in the make up of a cavalry squadron each troop has a requirement for an APC. The cav are finally getting around to playing with them ! Seems everybody else has had a turn so it must be ours!:D
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • #3
      The cav already opparate a workshop mowag and they are goin getting 6 mowag APCs sometime in the near future(2 for each PDF sqn.).

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      • #4
        The Cav don't operate a workshop MOWAG, all MOWAGS are operated by B Coy 3rd Inf Bn. The only reason the MOWAG in question has a Cav Badge on her is because the first qualified MOWAG fitter was an NCO from the cav.

        The MOWAG's the Cav are supposedly getting wont be APC's in traditional sense as there's talk that they'll be armed with a 90mm gun but still retain the ability to carry a limited number of bodies in the rear.
        Death before Dishonour.

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        • #5
          will it be a new gun and turret or will the turrets and guns be taken from the current AML 90s
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • #6
            I heard talk that the panhards as they are will go to the RDF cav units,as they have lots of life in them,while being replaced in PDF service by the Mowag Piranha with heavier armament,the options of which are unlimited,and as yet undecided. It reduces the capacity to about 6,depending on the Model of Piranha..4x4/6x6/8x8/10x10 etc...


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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            • #7
              Lets just hope what you heard is true, the Panhards need replacing fairly soon. The thing is, if there being replaced are they gonna be replaced on a 1 for 1 basis or are enough gonna be acquired to properly kit the Cav Sqn's as whats on paper and what strength there at are to totally different things.

              Scorpions could do with replacing aswell but thats probably a long way off.
              Death before Dishonour.

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              • #8
                given that the RDF squadrons already have 90s your news is old....but one 90 per squaron is not catagorised as being up to strenght! what about all the ancillary vehicles required.the make up of any squadron requires APCs...factually each of the reserve squadrons could only field about I effective troop given our vehicle allocations and even at that we don't have the required signals allocation. Yes we have the bodies ...no we don't have the gear...so we are only Cavalry squadrons in name!
                We cannot train operators fast enough to replace wastage so we are effectively merely a reserve troop for a PDF squadron....so why not equip us to proper troop standard.
                We have the will to try but we need the support of our PDF counterparts!
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                • #9
                  The PDF Cav Sqns don't have enough armoured vehicles either, so what hope to RDF Sqns have?

                  19 x AML 90
                  16 x AML 20
                  16 x AML 60HB

                  Each PDF Cav Sqn has 4 x AML 90 and RDF Cav Sqn has 1 x AML 90

                  Each PDF Cav Sqn has 4 x AML 20, less those overseas.

                  All of the 16 AML 60HBs, according to Karl Martin's book, have been withdrawn, 14 are to be "wadied" and 2 to be upgraded for training purposes.

                  Each Cav Sqn is suppose to have 4 x AML 90, 6 x AML 20 (or equivilant) and a number of APCs.

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                  • #10
                    Your point?


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                    • #11
                      ÈH ! you think I didn't already know all that ?
                      You forgot about Drs Softskins....trucks and recovery vehicles...not to mention all the support and anti armour!
                      I happen to be in a Cav squadron...so I do know what is required! I also know what the capabilities are and what the realities are.....I was merely pointing out the whole cavalry as a corps is being down graded.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • #12
                        My point is that we don't have the equipment for PDF Cav Sqns, let alone the RDF ones, who are suppose to provide a RDF Troop to each PDF Sqn.

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                        • #13
                          The original tender documentation for the APC back in 1998 asked companies to provide details and specifications for the carrige of weapons from 12.7mm up to 12Omm on their vehicle. Given that the Piranha was selected on this basis, it would appear almost certain it would be selected as the new cavalry vehicle. As for weapons choice, a 105mm might be favoured over 90mm given that it is the NATO standard. And it seems a fair bet that the AML-20 will be replaced by a 25/30mm cannon.

                          As for numbers, back in 1998, companies who tendered for the contract were told off the record that there would be three batches of 40 vehicles ordered? However, there has already been a shortfall in the second batch, so who knows.

                          As for cavalry squadrons, I'd have thought that they'll probably be re-structured somewhat to take account of new vehicles and equipment.
                          Last edited by paul g; 5 July 2004, 18:19.

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                          • #14
                            I think personally,given the method being used,that the future for cav is as part of a mechanised infantry Brigade.
                            Recent major exercises are moving away from the cav,and other corps units working as a stand alone group,instead having them as a support element to an infantry batallion,in the same way as a mortar or a SRAAW is a support element.

                            Given this thinking,variations on the Mowag theme would seem practical.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                            • #15
                              I think it really all depends on the future direction of the cavalry corps, which as HTP said is unsure. The only thing to be said for sure is that the AML is totally obsolete for modern warfare, (in 1990, South Africa, even though it had been subject to an arms embargo had begun to phase out the AML, yet we're still using it) and there is also the role that modern technology will have to play, since in the future sensors may be more important that weapons for recce. For example, the Germans are trialing a tactic where they use one Fennek, using its pop-up camera from behind cover, to control a team of two weasels. Basically the Fennek stays behind a crest of a hill with its mast up, a TOW weasel goes in a position to provide covering fire (hull down), and a 20mm Weasel carries out the actual close recce. Could the cavalry end up equipped something the same? In reconnaissance if you have to shoot, you've actually largely failed in your job, which is to gather information undetected, so a Piranha III with a 30 mm cannon, a crew of three, (driver, gunner, commander), and a dismounted team of four men in the back for a bit of seems the best way to go.


                              However although the cavalry corps in the irish army has traditionally performed a recce role, given the demands of modern peace support missions, it there will be a greater need IMHO, for a direct fire support role in the future at battalion level in the future. In the lebanon that was performed by the AMl-90. but this has to be completly rethought, difficult to do when the cavalry only has a single vastly undereqipped squadron to every brigade and a training squadron at the DFTC.
                              Last edited by paul g; 5 July 2004, 21:35.

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