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Cosantor
7th January 2003, 14:38
I was just wondering how RDF members would feel if, they were mobilised here??
There must be some of you with friends or family in the British forces, how do they feel about it??

I have done a bit of research on the UK and the MOD, to keep industry happy and informed set up a agency called SABRE (http://www.sabre.mod.uk), to address industry's fears about loosing skilled personnel to military call.
Could you imagine such an agency being set up here??
To be honest, if the RDF was ever called up I recon there would be alot of us on the dole queue after the mobilisation period was up!!!

Bravo20
7th January 2003, 16:16
However if there were a lot of members on the dole queue after a mobilisation there would also be a lot of employers facing unfair dismissal claims.

Cosantor
7th January 2003, 17:05
Why would they face such claims???
Does it say anywhere in your contract that you "CAN" go and fight for your country???
I know from past experience that the law in this country is weighed in favour of the employer!! No matter how much a Bo**ix he/she is!!!
For example if you are working for an employer less than a certain amount of time (not sure what it is) you are not covered under employment law, this is to prevent employees from suing employers for unfiar dismissial within that period!!!
I mean the British must having being having a large problem with this to say that they set u[p an agency to try and prevent this!!

I know that there are some US Gaurdsmen out there, do you have this same problem??

Bravo20
7th January 2003, 17:46
Under employement law dismissal due to military service obligations is considered "unfair dismissal". In an unfair dismissal case, the dismissal is deemed to be unfair until proved otherwise (i.e. the burden of proof rests with the employer), your employment contract cannot take those rights away from you.

Now to be able to claim this, you would have had to be "called up" under current legislation, which hasn't happened since WW2.

Western Commando
7th January 2003, 17:46
BBC Online 07.01.03

The UK is to call up more than 1,000 army reservists as the military build-up in readiness for possible war with Iraq continues.
A "significant" amphibious task force is also being prepared, Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon told MPs in the Commons on Tuesday.
Mr Hoon's statement came ahead of a key foreign affairs speech to British diplomats by Prime Minister Tony Blair.
US troops are preparing for possible mobilisation in the Gulf, while French President Jacques Chirac has given his clearest signal to date that his country's forces would be involved in any conflict.
Mr Hoon said 1,500 army reservists would be called up at first, but that it would be "misleading as well as undesirable" to give details of how many could eventually be readied for action.

andy
7th January 2003, 18:27
Plans are underfoot to past legislation in the Dail to enable Reservists to serve overseas for up to a year and keep their job secure when they return.

ex pat 007
8th January 2003, 00:09
there are several laws in the states protecting reservists jobs, if let go unfairly the employer can be fined $100,000.Cal tanker would have more info on this though.

The one thing that the Natl guard has over the rdf is the natl guard assoc (not unlike the rdfra) is a powerful washington lobbyist .

Thorpe
8th January 2003, 12:20
My cousin is in the TA and took part in Operation Swift Sword in Oman. He thinks he will be called up as he is one of the few in his reg. who have had desert training with the Challenger, when it was running. His employer is really pissed about him being in the TA but keeps the job for him.

Cosantor
9th January 2003, 16:39
I see that the Aussies have also set about refunding industry for personell who are mobilised, you can have a look at the details at:
http://www.defence.gov.au/reserves/

LordFlash
10th January 2003, 14:08
I wish we could go, :(

I doubt we'll ever get called up for something like this....

DeV
16th November 2005, 18:20
[MOD: Thread Merge]



Under Section 94 of the Defence Act 1954, the Minister can make regulations allowing for the periodical attendance for periods (none of which shall exceed 72 hours) at specified places of reservists for inspections and other purposes as regulated for, once notice has been served.

They are like test mobilisations.

Anyone know:
Have such regulations been made?
Have such "inspections" ever been carried out?

Anyone think they may be a good idea?

DeV
16th November 2005, 18:31
Could you enlighten me/us?

rod and serpent
16th November 2005, 19:12
http://www.sabre.mod.uk/output/page1.asp

irishrgr
16th November 2005, 22:29
Hey lads, all going well here, we're training in Southern Mississippi (which looks remarkably unlike the high deserts of Afghanistan, but there you go). Finishing up a CPX right now, working the digital systems which link us to the rest of the Army. Our companies are out in the woods training and by and large having a good time with it.

Our civvie jobs are fairly well protected at this point, the laws have been ammended since Desert Storm. basically, your job is protected for up to 5 years and you have to go back in where you left off. This includes any benefits you would have received while you were employed (raises, seniority, etc). If you rjob has ceased to exist due a reorganization, etc, you must be offered a comparable job or retraining with no loss of pay/benefits.

A few employers have tried to fight a returning reservist, but most have lost severely in the courts, fines running into the millions. Given the prevailing public sentiment of "support the troops" you'd probably have a hard time convincing a jury of an employers case.

Those who feel the most pain are people who work in an occupation like sales or finance where you work a "client list" which is passed on to someone else while you are gone. Self employed are probably the worst, if you are a small busniess, you will have to make some tough choices.

Some employers do the righ thing and make up the difference between military pay and civvie pay, some contimue to pay you or just keep up benefits like insurance for the family etc. There are moves afoot to give employers tax breaks on reservists, but it has not made it out of the Senate and the White House is opposed to it.

Passive discrimination is the killer, though. In my case I've never suffered overt discrimination, but get the comments like "well you are gone a lot" or "maybe you need to rethink this Army thing" from supervisors. I know (but can't prove) it's been held against me in promotions, but without proof it's just a rumor. This is common with other reservists, and generally the worst employers are government agencies at every level from the city up to the feds.

I Ireland, I would hope the Dail looks at legislation from the US, it's about as good as you are going to get.

I have figured out how to use a digital camera, so there will be pictures from this trip as things happen.....A

Bravocold
17th November 2005, 00:20
Things are a little different with the Brits as you might have guessed.

Serving TA soldiers have a legal guarantee that their job is secure when they leave to serve abroad. A lot of companies are very happy with this set up but there are loads of stories of lads coming home to find that they get fired soon after returning for really minor things.

Anyways, point is if the RDF are ever in a situation where they could be called up, a similar system would need to be set up here.

JAG
17th November 2005, 17:03
Plans are underfoot to past legislation in the Dail to enable Reservists to serve overseas for up to a year and keep their job secure when they return.

Almost three years since Andy posted this. The plans underfoot must be well and truly trodden into the dirt at this stage.

Believed when seen.

deise boy
17th November 2005, 19:05
Ok well in response to the three questions of the original post;

How would i feel about being called up - very scared because i would have to put up with all the political wrangling on a full time basis until we were stood down again.

How do my family in the UK feel about being called up - in general the people in the TA are different to those in the RDF. Every person who joins the TA does so in the knowledge that more than likely they will be called up and hence they take their duties far more seriously than in the RDF. They keep their fitness level up, turn up to parade etc. They are also trained and equiped properly.

Will and organisation like the one in britain be set up - NO, why? Its simple, in the UK they call up troops on a regular basis. It is common and not any serious big deal. In Ireland if the government were to call up the RDF it would only be for a national emergency. In that scenario most employers would be far more receptive to people answering their nations call. Hence there is no need for such a body in this country.

With regard to the legal aspect I have two observations
1. Contract law is not only written. There are implicit and unmentioned conditions to all contracts. The court could assume that part of the employment contract was job security e.g in the event of a call up the employer should keep you on. Why? because they hired you in the knowledge that your in the RDF and its a possabilty that you will be called up and they accept that when they hire you. Note however there is no case law to back this up

2. Under Tort law there is almost definetly a duty of care owed by all employers to their employees. I cant remember off the top of my head of a relevant case but i can look it up if you want. Its to do with a compedant employee i.e. they cant sack you unless they prove you were incompedant in some way

happenin
17th November 2005, 20:28
I would love to see some sort of job protection in place for reservists. But what can be done without pissing off the unions, the employers and others. If it does come into fruition then it will probably be half assed as usual and end up causing more problems than it solves. A tax incentive scheme for employers to take on reservists would be a good idea if we were "caled up" but in the interim it is a waste but if they offer it to certain employers in particular industries who take on women then why not to those who take on reservists.
Time will tell on this one