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Jimmy C
10th December 2004, 17:53
The army got their Mowags, the AC have their new helis in the pipeline, the NS have only christmas to look forward to.
Logically the new investment will be in the NS. Since IMO has never been too far off in the past, what do you think the DF will get? If you're one of those people that thinks the DF will put money into the army or AC again, then what do you think it will be spent on? (no jet engined aircraft suggestions please, we all know that only ends in tears.)

I would make a suggestion but I have a habit of being miles off.

Vice Admiral
10th December 2004, 21:27
Hopefully a replacement for Emer and two NSR cutters
Total €27M

andy
10th December 2004, 21:30
there was talk here on the board about a new ship entering service ( i cant remember if the entire thread was a piss take aimed at journo's) but the idea of getting rid of 2 old Naval Vessels for one new one which could bring a full company of troops + mowags + hospital in RoRo would make a lot of sense.

Goldie fish
10th December 2004, 22:45
You forget that while the Army were getting their Mowags,the NS were getting Roisin and Niamh.

ias
11th December 2004, 00:40
Well the "announced" ones are for Light Utility/Jeep Type Vehicles (€5m?) and the Light Tactical Vehicles (€15m?) aren't they?

While on the acquisition topic, how much have they cost so far - Mowags (€80m), Javelin (€13m), Roisin and Niamh (€50m), PC9s (€60m), AB139s and Ec135 (€40m) plus the vehicles above (€20m) giving a total of approximately €263 million, I thought the White Paper quoted a figure of a total of €250 million?

If these numbers are correct can we expect any more acquisitions?

IAS

Goldie fish
11th December 2004, 01:39
The white paper was printed during the old days of Pounds(punts even).

ias
11th December 2004, 01:43
Thankfully you're right, though IR£250m = €300m, still we're getting very close. By the way, how much were the L70s, the Steyrs for the FCA/RDF and the highly military Learjet?

IAS

Goldie fish
11th December 2004, 01:58
But didnt the learjet come from the Dept of the Taoiseach? And dont forget all the extra cash the DoD got from the sale of barracks.

hptmurphy
11th December 2004, 04:59
the NS will probably get the Eithne back given that she has been out of service since september!

Goldie fish
11th December 2004, 06:25
Last time I looked she had scaffolding around the starboard funnel.

I was thinking earlier,while reading about the pilatus shoot, and the NS and Air Corps dauphin being involved in the policing of the range danger area,and I realised there is an opening(another one) for the good men and women of the NSR.

Is this not an ideal opportunity for them to operate in small fast patrol launches? Rather than detaining a valuable naval asset,which may not be required,get a few Fast launches for patrolling the area...they wont be operating 365 days a year,only when the rangers are in use, so it would be ideal for the NSR.

Also,if a suitable craft were selected(or 2) they could fulfil the role currently carried out by a civilian vessel in the training of SAR helicopter winching crews(the air corps still retain SAR as a secondary role and over water training is still important). 2 craft of between 40 to 60 feet in length would be suitable,and a crew could be drawn from a pool of crewmen from all the 4 NSR units. If anything,it would give the senior ratings and officers something to do while the junior rates go off on patrol as crew in Naval vessels.

Just a thought...

Silver
12th December 2004, 02:28
sounds like a great idea to me, GF ! :cool:

Hairflick
13th December 2004, 20:50
it only takes a phone call, ask those who took part in this years parachute courses how it works,
always glad to help out........

Goldie fish
13th December 2004, 22:12
it only takes a phone call, ask those who took part in this years parachute courses how it works,
always glad to help out........
What only takes a phone call?

Old Redeye
14th December 2004, 18:41
You are referring to NS interest in the ABSALON class now entering service in Denmark. A NS contingent recently toured the first of class there. Absoloutely the right ansawer. One ABSALON for two of the elderly ladies.

Cheers

Come-quickly
14th December 2004, 18:55
Its an impressive ship alright (The Absalon).
It would be a bit of an anachronism in the NS fleet, being armed for war and all.

Docman
14th December 2004, 20:45
The next priority (IMO) should be a BAP replacement and adequate rifles for RDF units.

Goldie fish
15th December 2004, 09:15
The NS would be looking for a pistol replacment too as armed boarding parties are using pistols since the withdrawal of the Gustav SMG.

Forget about the Absalon people...see elsewhere,any mention of that in relation to the NS is a figment of my imagination,unless I have discovered the power of clarvoyancy lately.

boomer
15th December 2004, 20:46
Having looked at what is out there and the options for new ships are:

Futher purchases of the Niamh/Roisin class, the Royal Navy River Class and the Danish Flyvefisken Class. The River Class could possibly be acquired cheaply as according to the Royal Navy Site they are obtained under some contract

"The River Class were built by Vosper Thorneycroft (UK) Ltd (VT) in Southampton under an innovative arrangement. The ships are leased to the Royal Navy under a five-year agreement which includes VT taking responsibility for maintenance and support during the period. This is the first time the Royal Navy has procured ships under such an agreement. At the end of the time, the MoD can either extend the charter, purchase outright or return the ships to VT. The flexibility and efficiency of this VT design enabled the Navy to replace five Island Class Patrol Vessels with the three River Class vessels. "

http://royalnavy.mod.uk/static/pages/3741.html

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/river_class/

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/fly/specs.html

In reality what does the NS need first and what is it likely to cost?

New Boats?
New Pistol?
New Accom?
Upgraded Accom?
etc

Any ideas?

BTW there is €37m to play with not allowing for inflation :)

Goldie fish
15th December 2004, 22:55
Staff willing to go to sea without fear of intimidation would be a priority before any further ships are procured.

hptmurphy
19th December 2004, 23:04
Realistically the naval service need ...

300 personnel to make up for the short fallin all ranks and appointments

Two new PV class vessels.....build them or lease them ...don't buy second hand.

An independent command structure from the army

Revised small arms and medium weapons fit for ships....MP5 smgs ...short barrelled styers...assault vest type equipment for boardings.....and the ability to buy equipment off the shelf without the army having first call to it.

Replacement of the GamBos and Rheinmetalls with 25mm weapons ...replacement of the L40/70 with the afore mentioned.

A dedicated inshore fleet of 5 shallowdraft lightly armed...Austrailian freemantle...patrol vessels..... these can be manned on a semi permenant basis by reservists and maintained by a cadre....three for the west coast ..one for the east and one for the south. Buy second hand ..Sweden or finland. Could also double a s coastguard /Customs cutters

The NSR needs to be increased in size and funding and need to be able to replace entire ships crews for extended periods.

Officers need to to able to replace their PDF counterparts.

The CASA CN 235 need to be removed from the air Corps control and based in the west and south west to mazimise range and also placed under direct control of the NS .

A positive ship replacement program and policy statement. the uncertainty of the future is causing major morale problems in the NS at the moment an as a result the service is suffering.

This would all have to take place with two years in order to make effective use these resources as replacements and enable maximum effect from the increases