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andy
5th January 2005, 01:27
There has been increased calls for 1,000 Irish troops to be sent to help out in the tsunami disaster. The army officers organistion RACO says we can deploy without any triple lock.

I wonder is this likely ?

Truck Driver
5th January 2005, 01:34
There has been increased calls for 1,000 Irish troops to be sent to help out in the tsunami disaster.

If that number was sent, would this not severely stretch the PDF as a whole, with
other current overseas committments ongoing?
If this is seriously being considered (the number involved), then could
anyone here see RDF members being called up for security duties, etc?



The army officers organistion RACO says we can deploy without any triple lock.
I wonder is this likely ?

I would very much doubt it. I was under the impression that any overseas
mission involving memebers of the Irish Defence Forces had to pass the "triple lock"
criteria, as it were. The only way this could change would be with a Dail vote....

Docman
5th January 2005, 01:42
There has been increased calls for 1,000 Irish troops to be sent to help out in the tsunami disaster.

I doubt we could send 100 troops never mind 1000.

Troddyn
5th January 2005, 01:47
aa

andy
5th January 2005, 02:01
sorry, the numbers are like 50 *_*

andy
5th January 2005, 02:16
Government asked to send troops to Asia


04/01/2005 - 15:41:19
http://breaking.tcm.ie/2005/01/04/story183169.html
The Government has been asked to deploy Irish troops on a mercy mission to the tsunami disaster region.

It has been claimed that their logistical expertise could make a difference.

However, Concern chief executive Tom Arnold has said it should be left to the countries involved or the United Nations to make a request.

“There is clearly a need for major logistical support in these countries, but that demand really has to come from the counties themselves and must come from a co-ordinated approach from the United Nations," he said.

“If it does come, I believe the Irish Government will look favourably on it.”

morpheus
5th January 2005, 02:16
Simple, mobilise as many volunteers (PDF + RDF) as possible into a battalion sized force and send them over coordinated under a charity like GOAL to one destination.

Docman
5th January 2005, 02:30
Simple, mobilise as many volunteers (PDF + RDF) as possible into a battalion sized force and send them over coordinated under a charity like GOAL to one destination.

You want to put them under John O' Shea???!!!

First of all, it is not as simple as that and secondly John O' Shea would likely use them to topple the Burmese Government.

That man, like most Irish civies, has little understanding of the military.

andy
5th January 2005, 03:09
I think it would be a good idea, there wont be any weapons and this kind of op is well suited to the RDF

Fianóglach
5th January 2005, 03:20
You want to put them under John O' Shea???!!!

First of all, it is not as simple as that and secondly John O' Shea would likely use them to topple the Burmese Government.

That man, like most Irish civies, has little understanding of the military.

I me John O'Shea while serving in Somalia 93, and believe me he has a good understanding of how the Defence Forces work. Sadly in the end we had to bail out the GOAL team in Biadoa as their armed guard was getting restless. I distinctly remember the GOAL team leader "a civie" running out the gate of their compound with was easily a couple of hundred thousand US Dollars rolled up in his t-shirt for safety. John called personally to see and thank us and stayed in our camp for a couple of days.

Barry
5th January 2005, 06:49
Simple, mobilise as many volunteers (PDF + RDF) as possible into a battalion sized force and send them over coordinated under a charity like GOAL to one destination.
How many volunteers are you going to get to go to a disaster area, full of dead bodies and the associated diseases, with no weapons and little training, probably not get paid for it, and when you come back you probably won't have a job any more?

The Joker
5th January 2005, 07:28
I would go.

Bam Bam
5th January 2005, 09:01
Of course the troops would have to be armed.

But our forces can just about support one BN overseas, if a PDF BN were sent to the area, then no question some elements of the reserve would have to be activated to fill the gap back home.

And I don't think the Gov wants to activate the reserve yet, not without the re-org completed anyway.

JAG
5th January 2005, 17:24
Simple, mobilise as many volunteers (PDF + RDF) as possible into a battalion sized force and send them over coordinated under a charity like GOAL to one destination.

If anyone here has ever investigated doing aid work, it is not quite as simple as that. Aid Agencies like Red Cross etc do not take Joe Soap off the street for their work- the only person I know even indirectly who is involved in aid work is a qualified nurse with a Masters degree in crisis management.

Add to that the fact that there are plenty of troops in the area as it stands- this is not the third world.

A much better use of resourcs would be to put Aer Lingus's fleet at the disposal of the aid agencies- most aircraft are easily convertible to cargo role-and get the vital materials in the region ASAP.

Suggesting the DF send anything other than helis is using the event for PR- and the helis the DF has aren't up to the task.

yellowjacket
5th January 2005, 17:32
A much better use of resourcs would be to put Aer Lingus's fleet at the disposal of the aid agencies- most aircraft are easily convertible to cargo role-and get the vital materials in the region ASAP.


Considering there are aircraft traffic jams at the airports in the region, it would seem shortage of fixed wing aircraft is not an issue. Helicopters on the other hand seem to be in particular demand in Indonesia, to distribute aid to inaccessible locations.

DeV
5th January 2005, 17:56
The triple lock system, would only effect a DF commitment if they were armed.

The DF has seconded personnel to NGOs (Non-Governmental Organisations) in the past, including Goal, Concern, the Red Cross and Trócaire, to countries including Somalia, Angola, Rwanda, Russia, Albania and Macedonia. DF personnel were also involved with the Irish Rwandan Support Group and the Irish Refugee Agency in Macedonia. Although the number of personnel and time scale involved was limited.

The best example of DF personnel being involved in a similar type mission, were the three Irish Honduran Support Groups, which were deployed following Hurricane Mitch. The first lasting 5 months and the subsequent two last 2 months each. These missions involved between 15 and 27 DF personnel.

The first group built a school and health centre, which was then maintained, monitoring and assisted to the 2 subsequent groups.

This mission was conducted under APSO (Agency for Personal Service Overseas), which seems to have become Development Cooperation Ireland, whereby people with suitable skills could volunteer to serve for short and long periods of time in developing countries, but this scheme seems to have ended.

Quote from military.ie:

IHSG (IRISH HONDURAN SUPPORT GROUP)

As part of the Irish Government's response to the post Hurricane Mitch relief effort, an Army reconnaissance party was dispatched to Honduras on 01 November 1998.

As a consequence the Irish Honduran Support Group (IHSG) was formed and in January of 1999, the group traveled to Honduras and successfully carried out it's task of building a combination Health Centre - Kindergarten and the first two classrooms of an elementary school in the area of Santa Rosa de Aguan.

Total strength was 27 all ranks which consisted of Engineer, Army Medical Corps personnel a Chaplain and an administrative staff.

2 IHSG (Number Two Irish Honduran Support Group) Following the success of the first Irish Honduran Support Group, the Minister for Defence agreed that the Defence Forces would contribute to No 2 Irish Honduran Support Group from 29 January to 13 February 2000. The Groups' mission was to carry out humanitarian tasks, of a mainly medical nature in the area Santa Rosa d' Aguan/Trujillo, Honduras. Total strength of the group was 21 all ranks.

There are no details on 3 IHSG apart from:
3 Irish Honduran Support Group (3 IHSG). 6 Jan to 10 Feb 01 Irish commitment: 15

Come-quickly
5th January 2005, 20:27
Unarmed troops in Sri Lanka, no thanks.

futurepilot
5th January 2005, 21:48
Unarmed troops in Sri Lanka, no thanks.

Government forces and Tamil tigers have agreed to halt hostilities while the
relief effort is going on.
Anyway, I`d go tomorrow if I was allowed defer this year in college.

Goldie fish
5th January 2005, 21:56
Tamil tigers have already claimed the US forces engaged in Humanitarion operations are using the mission as an excuse to spy on the Tamil's, with the cooperation of India and Sri Lanka.

yellowjacket
5th January 2005, 22:02
International law recognises the right of medical/civil defence personnel ( including military personnel carrying out these roles) to be armed with light individual weapons, so being lightly armed wouldn't necessarily turn the mission into a military one requiring the triple-lock. This all assumes the host country was agreeable.

futurepilot
5th January 2005, 22:09
It probably won`t happen anyway. India has turned down offers of military aid and I can`t see Indonesia being too happy with Irish troops wandering around thier country.

Come-quickly
5th January 2005, 23:26
Sri Lanka was the only likely deployment from the outset most of these countries have superior militaries, Sri Lanka is wartorn and worn down.
Tamili Militants arent as much of a worry as armed bandits.

Goldie fish
6th January 2005, 02:38
The man from Concern was on earlier saying he didnt really know how the Irish DF could be of any assistance. They need assets rather than people,there is no shortage of people,and at the moment he guessed(while admitting he was no expert) that only the US had the equipment in sufficient quantity to do the job.

carolirl29
8th January 2005, 02:34
If Irish troops are deployed to the Tsunami area the first thing they must do is stick out the begging bowl because we have no air support or logistics to bring. If it took two months to deploy troops to Liberia how long to Asia. We have no military aircraft to fly mercy missions in these areas or even to get us there. To be a humanitarian contingent we need helis, Tpt and EMTs etc etc. Compare that to the 47 missions a day US aircraft carrier helis are flying into one small part of Thailand. What ever happened to the quick reaction force set up in 2002????

DeV
8th January 2005, 04:51
The most likely option for the DF, would be to "adopt" a specific village/project.

Go to a village help the locals with the clean up, burials, etc
Set up emergency accommodiation & health care
Help with the rebuilding of the village

But even this would require external medical and engineer assistance.

carolirl29
8th January 2005, 20:20
If I have done this right there should be a sat photo of tsumani attached to this msg.

Truck Driver
8th January 2005, 22:27
If I have done this right ...

You certainly did. That's some picture...........

Gasplug
8th January 2005, 22:33
tis quite scary!!!

Steamy Window
8th January 2005, 22:35
That really looks like the coast of Florida in the top-left of the photo. If it isn't, where is it?

HavocIRL
9th January 2005, 00:10
I think what you got there is a picture of a hurricane off of the coast of florida.

carolirl29
9th January 2005, 03:55
sorry wrong one. I,ll get another one later.

carolirl29
9th January 2005, 05:07
Right..........These should be the sat photos. The last ones where sent to me from Asia but of what I don't know!!!Possibly the hurricane of Florida like u all said. Thanks for pointing it out although I still feel like a right eejit.
Carol

fireblade
9th January 2005, 06:47
Here are two photos,before and after the tsunami,gives you a good idea what its like there now (hopefully they will attach ok)

Roger McGee
24th January 2005, 20:27
Has there been any news on a deployment???

Stoker
28th January 2005, 01:25
It looks to me as if they could use (a) a container full of what ever type of fishing net they use there and (b) a container full of fibre glass repair kits. This would help the local fishermen to get back to work and provide food. We should probably send a few shipwrights as well.