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hptmurphy
19th March 2003, 02:03
I believe that the CEO of Ryanair on the Joe Duffy show has offered to provide the government with the executive style 737 free gratis seeing that Ryanair have just taken up 25 options on the latest version of the 737.
The government has declined to comment.

talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Okay theres got to be a catch but it has to be a lot cheaper than buying their own aeroplanes .

Any thoughts.....?

Big Al
19th March 2003, 09:17
Ryanair bought an airline for less than what the govt wants to pay for a jet!

The govt doesnt want bertie & co comming out of a non unionised airline thats in competition with the "national" airline. In effect the govt owns aer lingus and the aer corps

God save this country from the blinkered views of public sector unions

Stinger
19th March 2003, 11:13
I understand how the government couldn't take up this offer but why dont they buy one of the new Ryanair 737 and transfer it to the Air Corps?? Surely this would be a lot cheaper and quicker

yellowjacket
19th March 2003, 11:16
That "offer" was a typical Michael O' Leary bit of shit-stirring, it wasn't serious.
In any case, there's a million and one different competition laws that would prevent it.

Stinger
19th March 2003, 11:22
Yeah I suppose he could also use it to blackmail the government in a few years when he wants to turn Baldonnel into the Ryanair private airfield

EagleEye
19th March 2003, 12:15
How about letting Michael O' Leary manage as a consultant the Aer Corp for a 1 year trial and see what would happen, couldn't do much worse than it is already. I sure he would know where to get the best deals going in the aircraft business.

Give him 1 year to turn it around..........

FMolloy
19th March 2003, 16:00
EagleEye are you serious?

As was mentioned elsewhere the Defence Forces are not a business, they are a publice service unlike any other. There is no tangible product, no money coming in. What do you expect O'Leary to do to 'turn it around'? The Air Corp does not make money, so he can't improve the cash flow. All he could do is 'out source' certain tasks - something which is killing the Air Corp at the moment. He could also sell off Baldonnel, which is what he would probably do. That would completely kill the Air Corp.

He got a good deal from Boeing for airliners, but what does he know about military aircraft? It's two different markets, while the civillian sector has experienced a downturn the military side seems to be booming. How many good deals are there out there for decent military craft?

He knows nothing about military operations or military organisations, he'd be no better than the civil servants there now.

EagleEye
19th March 2003, 16:19
Ya i was only joking, waiting how long i would have to wait for the response you gave.

Stinger
19th March 2003, 17:22
Hell if you gave him control of the air corps he would probably try and give the aircraft away to some country just so he could secure landing rights there. So that probably aint a good idea

I.M.F.
19th March 2003, 17:26
The Defence Forces are a public service that is treated by the government as a business.

Stinger
19th March 2003, 17:29
I thought that government policy at the moment was to teach all it's departments as a business?

hptmurphy
19th March 2003, 20:56
Interesting point about Oleary running the aircorps ...funny enough one of Ryanair founding Fathers PJ McGoldrick was former aircorps corporal..maybe just maybe...
Yeah I had thought of the 'civil baldonnel issue '...why not...it happens all the time in the states where air national guard units are based at civil airdromes ...on the positive side the amount of facilities would increase the burden of atc and firefighting would be removed from the aircorps thus freeing up manpower....I'm not supportting O'Learys idea but There are positive sides to the opening of Baldonnel to civilkian operators.

FMolloy
19th March 2003, 22:24
If it was responsibly done it has great potential, but it shouldn't be left to the likes of O'Leary. Perhaps a partial sale of land around Baldonnel would be a good idea?

Silver
19th March 2003, 23:24
Option 1 : Baldonnel becomes joint military/civil facility (as in the UK and elswhere) Income generated used to fund the Air Corps.

Option 2 : Sell Baldonnel and build new facility for the AC in the Midlands or West.

Big Al
19th March 2003, 23:50
cant move the AC from dublin, as the AC's main role appears to be MATS so a move away from dublin is not on the cards

FMolloy
20th March 2003, 00:50
I think option 2 is a non-runner.

Stinger
20th March 2003, 20:26
Ican't really see option 1 as much of an option either. O'Leary would either try and force the aircorps out of Baldonnel or get them to fork out for all the costs involved with the running of the airfield

hptmurphy
21st March 2003, 00:21
Option one sounds good

The state already pay for the facilities be it military or civil so wheres the problem....

The aircorps would benefit and some private concern could now run the day to day operation with a profit in mind...lets face it under the aircorps guidance through no fault of their own the place is costing the taxpayer millions each year.It is really a huge area of ground that is grossly under used...private enterprise could make it in to a profit making site ..posibly using a lease back arrangement where the a civil operator would pay for the use of the ground s providing there was government capital investment

Lets face it the government has spent money on worse ......

Bravo20
21st March 2003, 10:03
This would only be a viable option if the gov put the money straight back into defence

Bravo20
21st March 2003, 10:04
For "viable" read "acceptable"

Bravo20
21st March 2003, 10:05
I didn't know I was typing that fast. I just got a message saying that I can't post messages faster than 1 every 30 seconds. Does this prevent spamming?

Stinger
21st March 2003, 12:58
The thing is that at the moment the government is paying to operate a military airfield im sure it would require additional investment before it could be changed to facilitate civilian flights. My point is that O'Leary would try and force the government to pay for these changes.

I.M.F.
22nd March 2003, 14:25
What about mixing Option 1 & 2

Open up Baldonnel to civil aircraft and keep the MATS, SAR, AND GASU elements of the Air Corps at the base and move the rest of the Air Corp to a new base in the midlands or the west of the country.

Silver
22nd March 2003, 17:06
Ok, so this thread was started to discuss the viability of Ryanair operating from Baldonnel, but that is not the only civilian option. (In fact I would not be a supporter of O'Leary becoming involved with Baldonnel)

Another option could be to open the airbase to small business jets and/or cargo aircraft and/or private helicopters.

There is also something in what IMF has posted. The CASA's could (and should) be relocated to Galway or Shannon, closer to the area of the majority of their missions i.e. the Atlantic.

I.M.F.
22nd March 2003, 22:05
When I said the west of the country I was thinking about location for the CASAs (to save fuel for a longer patrol).
When I said open baldonnel civil aircraft I did not mean just ryanair I ment any civil aircraft.
Ayway why would ryanair want to use baldonnel I remeber a few months ago (and correct me if I am worng) Dublin Airport said it was going to build a new terminal for budget airlines. Wouldn't O'leary want the whole terminal for himself.

FMolloy
24th March 2003, 10:30
He would indeed want the whole place to himself. I have no probs with sharing Baldonnel with private companines, just not his.

EagleEye
24th March 2003, 10:43
Ok heres a good idea. How about turning Baldonnel into a Civilian/Military Airport with top class infrastructure. But have it as a civilian Cargo airport, this would take all the cargo flight from Dublin free up alot of slots there, they could then build their 2nd terminal. Baldonnel would be ideal as a cargo airport as it is right next to motorways running north, west and south.

Silver
24th March 2003, 18:40
Good idea EagleEye.

I think I read that somewhere before also.

I.M.F.
24th March 2003, 18:53
Great idea EagleEye
I wish I thought of that.

hptmurphy
24th March 2003, 22:20
To be fair it seems that every body agrees to some extent that baldonnel should be opened up to civil traffic......not only ryanair and that it would be beneficial to both the aircorps and the civil market...so why is it not on the agenda any more.

The opening of a second base in the midlands would not be cost effective as was proven when the SAR service moved to waterford,

The aircorps infrastructure is not big enough to support such an option.

Stinger
28th March 2003, 16:30
But if baldonnel was turned into a civilian airport could we rely on the government to actually build us a new airbase?