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hptmurphy
24th March 2003, 22:24
As seen on the tv today some body has lost his longbow apache.....he's definetly in the shit now.

If the aircraft was landed so intact with no visible damage why was it not destroyed by the crew.

Are demolition charges fitted to such high tech machines.

where are the crew?

Is it possible to bring down such a machine with a bolt action rifle?

Thoughts please!

I.M.F.
24th March 2003, 22:31
Well if you waited this long to put it in the board then you should have found out by know that the crew are allaged to be in Iraquie hands

ICUN
25th March 2003, 08:10
It looks it probably came down due to Mechanical failure as it looked pretty intact. It probably would be possible to shoot it down with a bolt action rifle but it would be a very very lucky shot. Maybe if you hit the centre of the rotors or the fuel tank or something.

Aidan
25th March 2003, 09:12
Do you think that if he'd hit it, they'd show the impact/bullet hole?

Ah-64s are supposed to be relatively resistant to anything up to 12.7mm all over and 23mm in most places (including the rotor blades). Given the hammering they took in Afghanistan (even RPGs) and still came home, I'd imagine that an old 7.92mm or whatever the hell it was wouldn't really be a problem. Everybody with a rifle in Iraq at the moment is pretending to be an AA gunner, doesn't mean they hit anything.

Unless they got a Golden BB(!)

There was no damage to the exhausts (or IR filters) or that area, so a IR guided sam is out of the question too.

Its either mechanical failure or something really weird. Could be something simple like dirty fuel (if they were operating out of a forward base like H-2 or Talil).

Bravo20
25th March 2003, 09:35
Well it looks like they definately have the pilots now. If you were going to choose between escape and evasion and destroying the aircraft which would you choose?

Bailer
25th March 2003, 10:05
<FONT FACE="TAHOMA" COLOR="#99CC00">Due to the amount of things that can go wrong with a chopper it could be mechanical failure, or a case of it being damaged in such a way that an emergency landing was neccessary, You'd think the Yanks would've learned in Somalia that Choppers aren't invincible against ground troops! The Pilot and Gunner(?)were on UTV and TV3 this morning. I just heard on the News that us Military Intelligence have said up to 200 Suicide Bombers are on their way to Southern Iraq, The Iraqi's keeping ambushing the Yanks aswell.

</font>

Erwin
25th March 2003, 10:43
Methinks the two boys are in for a right bollocking if & when they get repatriated.They'll be writing in triplicate for the rest of their careers i'd imagine.
A farmer with an old bolt action rifle.......NO BLEEDIN' WAY!!!!
As was said the Iraqis would certainly have shown the entry hole,i'm surprised they didn't put one in & show it anyway!!
What next i wonder??Knock out an M1 with a gat??

Thorpe
25th March 2003, 13:10
Found this along my travels
http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/2003-03-24T164309Z_01_GALAXY-DC-MDF240902_RTRIDSP_2_PICKS-IRAQ-APACHE-DC.jpg
It must have been taken down by some thing other than a farmer with an acient rifle, surely:(

EagleEye
25th March 2003, 14:17
With the benifit to having Iragi TV where i am at the moment, i can say that they have the 2 US Apache pilots. Also looking at the detailed TV coverage of the Gunship on the ground, there appered to be no visible damage to the craft. Landing gear was even intact. So a 7.62 round from a farmer, hardly. With its entire Hellfire missile load intact its a wonder that the craft wasn't destroyed by thr crew or why the hell they didn't call in an airstrike on the location.

While watching the TV footage i could see the Iraqi journalist telling the men to put their hands and weapons up and start shouting for the cameras. So i would say they just got lucky with where it came down. But as was stated these pilots might prefer to be POW than have to answers questions of how they let the most advanced AH-64 Longbow attack helo fall into emeny hands...

Great picture thorpe. I'm sure one of those guys was protesting at SNN. Imagine an airstrike being called in at the moment with all those guys on the helo...

Big Al
25th March 2003, 14:37
The enternal debate, why didnt the destory the apache when they landed? I suppose the fact that they were behind enemy lines and didnt to draw attention to themselves by exploding a helicopter is probably the reason. E&E training tells them not to draw attention to themselves, what attention do you think the iraqis might pay to an exploding apache?

I think the were right to leave it intact, the Iraqi's wont be able to use it, the tv coverage shows it wasnt downed by enemy fire, i feel sorry for the poor bastards that were caught, the tv pictures of them dont show the 15 ak's pointed at them from behind the camera!

hptmurphy
25th March 2003, 14:45
Thank you very much......., if the cost of loosing a helicopter is equivalent of loosing a ship...its a courtmartial with a severe amount of time in the pokey.

I didn't believe it could be posssible to bring down such a machine with a single shot...reckon it was a systems failure of some description....what will the Iraqis going to do with it......Finders ....keepers?.... I suppose the yanks will want it back now complete with all the bits....no souveniers....swap it for sadaam?

Who knows

To IMF my reason for posting late in the evening was to wait and see if I could find out the info without having to post if this troubles you.......maybe you'd like us to shut down the board so you don't have to give of you're time to help others and join in discussion

new poll shut down the board to keep IMF happy

yes or no............

hang on on second thoughts lets disband the internet..........

Again thanks for the input sorry to have disturbed the almighty.

Aidan
25th March 2003, 15:03
No one is going to do anything with it. It was destroyed by an airstrike this morning.

Reasons for the delay? One is that the weather wasn't great and that they may have been waiting till a medium altitude GBU strike was possible.

The other is that they may have been keeping a close eye on the bird, waiting for some Russian guy to show up with a pick up/lowloader/crane, and then destroy it.

And for the real anoraks out there, the rifle purportedly used was a Czech Brno in 7.92 x 57mm, a copy of an old Mauser ...

EagleEye
25th March 2003, 15:12
Great stuff Aiden. Cheers, that one less problem for them to worry about.. I wonder were any of those guy in the photo still hanging around the area !! Ah well..

hptmurphy
25th March 2003, 16:50
thought that might be the outcome alright..problem solved ....but what of the crew...are they okay...assume they are POWS....Isuppose the yanks are playing this down.....nice weapon the Mauser 98k but hardley devised in the aaa role.

EagleEye
25th March 2003, 16:57
Well i saw them on TV and they look fine no injuries, one was drinking tea and the other a glass of water, still in there flight suits..

Bravo20
25th March 2003, 17:02
The kinda looked worried, and I don't blame them.

EagleEye
25th March 2003, 17:08
Looking at the photo, could we have a Guniness Book of Records new record for the most people to stand on a Ah-64.

Bravo20
25th March 2003, 17:13
Easily beatable, there is plenty of more room on the nose and on that radar thing above the blades :D