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GoneToTheCanner
3rd May 2005, 01:36
Hello all
I recently had a close look at a pre-WW-I bolt-action rifle and wish to trace it's background. It is a long (non-carbine), Mauser-style, magazine-fed rifle, with a ridged 5-round magazine. It is date-stamped 1882, has BG 3840 stamped on it's left face of the reciever and has an elaborate heraldic crest stamped on the right side of the butt, with the words "ARTIG.FAB.D'ARMI.TEFNI" and the date "1888" in an oval around the crest, with the word "RIPARAZIONE" on a circular band under the crest. The serial number, T7550 is branded/pressed under the above.It also has inspection stamps, one of which has the tiny letters,"VSi" in an oval. It has a metric foresight and an offset lug for a Mauser-style bayonet and a long cleaning rod under the barrel. The action still works and the firing pin protudes from the rear of the bolt when cocked. The weapon is in quite good order, with light pitting on the metalwork and whilst the woodwork is showing evidence of hard use, it is sound and all there. The ammunition appears to be about 7.7mm calibre, the bullet is rounded and the cartridge shorter than the Enfield .303 round. There are no identifiying marks on the base of the cartridges. I think, given the lettering, that's it's a Mannlicher but I'll gladly take advice or suggestion on it's origin.
regards
GttC

Big Al
3rd May 2005, 01:49
It could be of italian orgin, RIPARAZIONE is italian for repair, or it could have been repaired in Italy

rod and serpent
3rd May 2005, 13:26
Any pictures.

yellowjacket
3rd May 2005, 14:10
http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armisrc.htm

It on this site?

yellowjacket
3rd May 2005, 14:14
I'm guessing it's this:



Italian M.1870/87 Vetterli Infantry Rifle

DESCRIPTION: Italian bolt action repeater with Vitali type box magazine. The rifle was manufactured at Torre Annunziata arsenal in 1880, as stated on the barrel. The rifle was upgraded to the repeater configuration at Terni arsenal in 1888, as indicted by a cartouche on the right side of the butt stock, "ARITG. FAB. D'ARMI TERNI 1888". The center of the cartouche displays a nice Crest of Savoy. The word, "Riparazione" is stamped directly below the cartouche. Small Crest of Savoy is also stamped on the chamber, under the rear sight. There are also several other, smaller markings and proofs stamped on various steel parts of the rifle. Matching serial numbers (the numbers are stamped only on the chamber and on the right side of the buttstock. There are no numbers on all the remaining parts, which is correct for this model). The receiver dust cover was removed during the conversion to magazine rifle, as it was usually practiced at the time. CONDITION: Excellent. The rifle has about 93% of blue, turning to brown color patina in some places. The receiver originally had a polished steel finish, and now is covered by uniform patina. The barrel shows some occasional light peppering. The buttplate is covered by dark brown patina mixed with some surface rust. The stock is solid, with no cracks. There are some minor handling marks and dings on the stock, which otherwise is very nice and smooth. The finish on the stock is original, with all the numbers and markings clearly visible. Strong action. Excellent bore with strong and shiny rifling. All the internal parts of the rifle are in excellent condition, with no visible wear. Complete with original cleaning rod. Very nice example of Italian Vetterli rifle! Serial# YZ11XX.

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/Pictures/arc_0323.JPG

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Italy/ItalVetVitali.htm

GoneToTheCanner
3rd May 2005, 19:31
You Beaut! That's the one. The one I saw wasn't as clean as the one you've pictured but it's not far off. What calibre is it? Was it manufactured before Italian unification? Many thanks.
GttC

yellowjacket
3rd May 2005, 22:01
Originally built in 10.35 x 47R mm, some were Later converted to 6.5x52 Carcano.


I've seen at least one pic of this type of rifle in use by the Irish Volunteers, any chance the one you've seen has an interesting history?

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/claremuseum/riches_of_clare/power/vetterli_rifle.htm


One thing to look out for, under Irish law, this wouldn't have antique status so would need to be licenced. As the ammunition for it is no longer commercially available, it wouldn't need a licence in the UK. The definition here means any self contained cartridge firearm isn't an antique.

hptmurphy
4th May 2005, 18:35
Don't you just love this guys wealth of knowledge...nice site BTW.

Laners
4th May 2005, 23:15
Originally built in 10.35 x 47R mm, some were Later converted to 6.5x52 Carcano.


I've seen at least one pic of this type of rifle in use by the Irish Volunteers, any chance the one you've seen has an interesting history?

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/claremuseum/riches_of_clare/power/vetterli_rifle.htm


One thing to look out for, under Irish law, this wouldn't have antique status so would need to be licenced. As the ammunition for it is no longer commercially available, it wouldn't need a licence in the UK. The definition here means any self contained cartridge firearm isn't an antique.
You gotta love the Irish defination of antique , that means the late American Civil War rifle which fires a self contained cartridge that my father inlaw has would be ilegal in Ireland . Then on the other hand the muzzel loader rifle my son in law bought brand new just a few years ago would be legal .

yellowjacket
4th May 2005, 23:35
If the muzzle loader was made post 1845 it'd also need a licence.

That said, the legislation regarding antiques is fairly loosely enforced. If it's genuinely a historical artifact (i.e. not kept loaded under the bed!) and ammo isn't available then generally the guards won't make an issue of it. There are hundreds/thousands of old guns in attics/sheds around the country from Ireland's turbulent past. ( I once saw a 1903 Luger pistol handed into a gunshop by an old lady who's husband had recently died.)

there is also legally the option to remove the firing pin or whatever and get a letter of authorisation from a Superintendent to keep a non-functioning firearm as a keepsake without a firearms certificate. this isn't as stringent a process as fully deactivating it - normally taking out the pin or hammer or whatever suffices.

Laners
5th May 2005, 00:02
Intresting story about the Luger. When on summer holidays in Crossbarry in Co Cork my grandfather brought me to a neighbours house to visit, and they showed me an old Luger from the time of the uprising which had a shoulder stock . My Grandparents lived at the Station House in Crossbarry after his retirement from C.I.E and was given a few acres and half of the old station as part of his retirement. < the rail line from Cork to Bandon was in the course of being shut down around that time > He had a big area to the side of the house to grow spuds and veggies and one day he dug up three old German Mauser rifles , they where in pretty rusted condition and unusable but I brought one home with me to Dublin and proudly showed it off to my National School class mates on one of those days when the teacher asks what did you do on your summer holidays .

GoneToTheCanner
9th May 2005, 23:15
Hello all
Yellowjacket, the ammunition appears to be of about 7.7mm calibre and shorter than an Enfield .303 round. It's bigger than the Carcano round, because, by coincidence, I have fired the Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5mm carbine and they are quite small ( not far from the size of the SS 109 round). They(the 6.5) are reputed to have a muzzle velocity of 4000 fps! Does that sound about right?
GttC

yellowjacket
9th May 2005, 23:36
4000fps sounds very high, a 220swift barely exceeds it. I can't see a 6.5 with a smallish case managing it.

As for the 7.7 calibre, I can find no record of that rifle being chambered in anything other than 10.3 or 6.5. Can you put a calliper in the muzzle to find the bore diameter?