PDA

View Full Version : Emergency towing vessel



Pages : [1] 2

Goldie fish
9th July 2005, 07:05
http://www.oilpubs.com/_ni/Harstad.jpg


New Norwegian Coast Guard vessel designed and equipped by Rolls-Royce

Rolls-Royce has provided the design and major equipment for a new Norwegian Coastguard multi-role vessel, named Harstad, built by Aker's Søviknes yard in west Norway based on steelwork from Aker Tulcea in Romania. The ship is owned by Remøy Shipping, whowill operate it on long term charter to Kystvakten.

Harstad will undertake a variety of coastguard and Exclusive Economic Zone management roles. These include offshore standby and rescue, firefighting, salvage, and general law enforcement operations and fishery control.

One important duty will be pollution prevention. There is concern over the rapidly increasing oil tanker traffic from Russian ports along the coastline of northern Norway, with the risk of a disabled vessel grounding and causing an oil spill.

Harstad is therefore fitted for emergency towing of tankers up to about 200,000dwt and spill clean-up.

The vessel will be manned, as are other Norwegian coastguard vessels, by a combined military and civilian crew.

A new Rolls-Royce design, the 83m long UT512, was developed to meet the challenging requirements. A bollard pull of about 110 tonnes is combined with a speed of about 18.5 knots to enable the vessel to reach the scene of an incident quickly and then tow a stricken vessel to safety
http://www.oilpubs.com/oso/vesselandrov/vesselandrov_594.htm

So Norway Has the above, Spain recently took delivery of a similar UT 722 L type,The UK has at least two dedicated ETVs at either end of the country at all times,France too,has Taken delivery of a similar type.
http://www.morglaz.org/images/Abeilles.jpg
Abeille Bourbon (http://www.morglaz.org)

The only gap on the western seaboard of Europe is Ourselves. There has been no move on this vessel,even though there has been an urgent requirement for many years,and the DOMNR has "identified" a requirement.(well done).

Meanwhile,the wind blows,the seas get rough,and ships get stuck on rocks off our jagged coast,and we watch while others do the salvage,and if they get there on time,the pollution control.

The cost of these vessels is balanced by the damage to the marine industry,tourism,and environment that they have the potential to prevent.

Silver
9th July 2005, 16:57
The cost of these vessels is balanced by the damage to the marine industry,tourism,and environment that they have the potential to prevent.

I agree 100% !!
High time we had our own such vessel.

BTW, correct me if I am wrong, but I recall reading about (seeing?) a report a few years ago about the new Irish Lights (?) vessel which it was claimed would also be used for other tasks, e.g. SAR assistance, Pollution Control, (Towing?)......

Is this the case, or just the DOMNR 'copping out' of it's responsibilities ?

......... do you have a pic of the IL ship ?

Goldie fish
9th July 2005, 17:03
The Government claim that the Irish Lights vessel Grainuaile can be used as such,but she is not capable of such a heavy Bollard pull. She has the Hull of a Tug,but thats where the similarity ends.

She is as capable of towing as any vessel...Not much use in emergencies though.

Stinger
9th July 2005, 17:28
if we did get such a ship would she be operated by a civilian or military agency

Goldie fish
9th July 2005, 17:37
Similar to all other DOMNR roles,we would tender for the service. If the NS had such a ship,then they would crew it. The Norwegian ship in the first photo has a combination of Military/Civilian crew,which is already in use(on a smaller scale) in the Customs Patrol boat (Naval Service/Revenue).

Silver
9th July 2005, 20:17
What other uses could such a vessel be put to when not engaged in towing ops/pollution control ?

I presume this would be an important consideration were such a vessel to be purchased.

Goldie fish
9th July 2005, 20:20
Fishery Protection,other Law enforcement tasks....any other role currently carried out by the NS

Stinger
11th July 2005, 20:01
wouldn't she have to be armed for fisheries protection duties

Goldie fish
11th July 2005, 20:07
How hard is it to mount a GPMG or HMG? The Vessel in the first photo is armed.

DeV
11th July 2005, 22:07
The Report to the Steering Group on the Review of the Irish Naval Service and Air Corps, 1998, established a future demand for:

Pollution response vessels, backed up by NS vessels

Multi-purpose vessels with 120/150 ton bollard pull (the UK has 4)

Other vessels with marine emergency response capability with lesser bollard pull than the latter, equipped with winches, towing lines, main mast fire monitors.

Following a feasibility report, it was decided in 1999 that Ireland should have access to an E.T.V. capacity to protect our coast from the dangers of a major oil pollution incident and vessel stranding (especially the grave threat posed by problems with nuclear submarines).

It was recommended that the west coast service should be provided via PPP and the east coast should a joint PPP with the UK.

http://www.marinetimes.ie/Assets/_archive_2005/0205_news_04.html

Goldie fish
12th July 2005, 23:28
Thats typical of our government...Lets leave it to our neighbours. Same as we done for so many years with Search and rescue. Will they ever learn? Did they ever consider that The UK(and french) vessels may be too busy to attend to our problems? If conditions are such that tankers are being washed onto Irelands west coast,you can be pretty sure they are doint the same in the Bay of Biscay,Dover straits and the North Sea.

Silver
12th July 2005, 23:35
Thats typical of our government...Lets leave it to our neighbours. Same as we done for so many years with Search and rescue. Will they ever learn? Did they ever consider that The UK(and french) vessels may be too busy to attend to our problems? If conditions are such that tankers are being washed onto Irelands west coast,you can be pretty sure they are doint the same in the Bay of Biscay,Dover straits and the North Sea.

I agree.
It's either 'put it on the long finger' or ' leave it to the UK' :mad:

DeV
13th July 2005, 14:56
Thats typical of our government...Lets leave it to our neighbours. Same as we done for so many years with Search and rescue. Will they ever learn? Did they ever consider that The UK(and french) vessels may be too busy to attend to our problems? If conditions are such that tankers are being washed onto Irelands west coast,you can be pretty sure they are doint the same in the Bay of Biscay,Dover straits and the North Sea.

Exactly.

It took the ETV based in northern Scotland 26 hours to reach the damaged Canadian submarine.

X-RayOne
7th October 2007, 18:01
cheers goldie.

would the new opv's or epv not have this towing capacity anyway or are these a much bigger beast?

Goldie fish
7th October 2007, 19:52
No. They would have a basic towing ability, same as every vessel, but to tow a 150,000 tonne stricken cargo ship away from the irish coast safely, you need a bit more than a 2000 tonne patrol vessel with a bit of rope attached to the pins.

pmtts
8th October 2007, 08:30
The UK has at least two dedicated ETVs at either end of the country at all times.


The UK have four ETV's which are on charter to the Maritime & Coastguard Agency.

The Straits of Dover ETV is jointley operated by both UK & French Coastguard.

The only ETV ive ever seen down here was last year when it towed in the Cruise Ship Calypso, which caught fire in the Channel.

thebig C
8th October 2007, 14:19
I agree on the need for an ETV such as the Rolls-Royce design, but who would operate it? The Naval Service don't seem to be interested.

Goldie fish
9th October 2007, 04:47
What makes you think they are not interested? They have other priorities at the moment,replacing the P20 Class with an OPV that will see them through another 30 years of being Ignored by the Government finances,and nobody in Government is pushing the ETV idea too hard. There has not even been investigation, to my knowledge, of tendering to an external agency to provide ETV cover. Personally I see an ETV as an Ideal CPV replacement.

thebig C
9th October 2007, 12:17
What makes you think they are not interested? They have other priorities at the moment,replacing the P20 Class with an OPV that will see them through another 30 years of being Ignored by the Government finances,and nobody in Government is pushing the ETV idea too hard. There has not even been investigation, to my knowledge, of tendering to an external agency to provide ETV cover. Personally I see an ETV as an Ideal CPV replacement.

Reason I said they're not interested is that the NS plan for ship acquisition for the foreseeable future is one EPV and 2 OPVs, with maybe another EPV and OPV later. So the NS has no plans for an ETV for at least 5 years, and I haven't heard of any interest even after that.

Would the country be better served by an ETV in place of a second EPV? Which should have the higher priority: the ability to transport a second infantry company and their vehicles to Africa or wherever - but not Chad or Darfur - or the ability to take a large vessel that's threatening our coasts with pollution under tow?

Goldie fish
9th October 2007, 21:17
Reason I said they're not interested is that the NS plan for ship acquisition for the foreseeable future is one EPV and 2 OPVs, with maybe another EPV and OPV later. So the NS has no plans for an ETV for at least 5 years, and I haven't heard of any interest even after that.
I think you are mistaken there. It is long established that Senior NS officers, one of whom wrote an article to such opinion, have for some time sought a 15 ship navy that included an ETV.

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/showthread.php?t=1937

Navy Proposals will hole service below the waterline

Former navy captain Peadar McElhinny argues the draft white paper on Defence is an embarrassment

The Examiner,Saturday March 4 ,2000



DECEMBER 7 ,1941;the Japanese surprise attach crippled the U.S Pacific fleet in Pearl Harbour.It is a day remembered as the Day of Infamy.
Strange how this should come to mind as I studied the Draft White Paper on Defence.
It too was a sneak attack on the Naval Service -if not as dramatic-but there are similarities.
There was almost daily administrative contact but no feedback to the Naval Service on its working group submissions.
When the White Paper did finally appear,the Naval Service(Navy)was outraged.
It should not have been;the signs were already there.
A Green Paper facilitating a consultative process had not preceded it ,in accordance with established practice.
The bottom line was that they would have a fleet pegged at 8 ships against the 15 required to successfully police Irelands quarter million square miles of underwater territory,and that the role of the Navy would be reduced.
This is in spite of the sectionthat emphasises the "utilisation and development of the Naval Service to contribute to all of the states requirements in the maritime domain"
Additionally the crews to man the Navys newest vessel,L.E.Roisin would have to come fron the existing figure agreed to man 7 ships.
Price Waterhouse in its 1998 report,recommended this figure of 1,144 to Government.
But this has never been reached due to lack of agreement on promotion and recruitment.
The current strength is about 1000 .so to get a quart out of a pint ,half the fleet would concentrate on fishery protection with reduced crews.
Why do the Navy want 15 ships and what are the implications of reducing crews on ships?
The Navy is Irelands maritime policing with responsibilitiesfor the protection of a marine environment 13 times the size of Ireland.
It needs a constant presence-presence being deterrence Like the Gardai on our streets-in this environment:
*To police our fisheries and ensure that our fishermen work safely and without harassment from agressive competitors for dwindling resources.
*To moniter the passage of transiting merchant vessels to ensure that they do not pollute our waters and endanger our beaches ,thus damage our coastal tourism.
*As part of the Joint Task Force,with the Gardai and the Customs ,to combat drugs and arms trafficing off our coasts.
*Conduct search and rescue and search and recovery operations.
*Conduct diving operations - explosive ordnance disposal and assistance to the Gardai.
*Monitor activity on seabed exploration and ensure that such activity is conducted without interference.
*Contribute to United Nations and Partnership for Peace missions (St Petersburg tasks)
By comparison to our European Coastal neighbours ,we are grossly under resourced,with only 8 ships to police such a vast area.This is the equivalent of one Garda patrol car for all of Ireland.
Little wonder that ,in spite of many noted sucesses in apprehending drug trafficing vessels at sea ,our streets are awash with drugs.
Belgium,by comparison has an area 200times less maritime terrotory than Ireland and has a fleet of 18 vessels.
The European average is 88 ships to police European Maritime areas.
Against this backdrop,this White Paper is nothing less than a national and international embarassment.
Reducing crews on some ships ,which would concentrate on fishery policing will have 2 main effects:
The Navy will not be in a position to provide the current range of specialised assistance to fishing vessels.
These include fire fighting ,damage control,towing ,propellor release from fouled nets and mechanical first aid.
Invariably, across the broad spectrum of activity the navy has to undertake, including drug interdiction,the under-manned and equipped ship will be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
To recomment that an already under-resourced Navy should have its current capability diluted is madness.
As well as being astounded by the lack of understanding by the drafters of this document ,the Navy is also outraged.
Is the Navy living on the same island or indeed the same planet as the drafters of this document?
The proposal is more fitting for Policing Rockall than policing this island nation!


Capt Peadar J.Mc Elhinney is a retired second in command of the Naval Service and Commanding officer Naval Base ,Haulbowline,Cork.He was also the senior Military Advisor to the United Nations Special Mission to Afghanistan in 1988




Would the country be better served by an ETV in place of a second EPV? Which should have the higher priority: the ability to transport a second infantry company and their vehicles to Africa or wherever - but not Chad or Darfur - or the ability to take a large vessel that's threatening our coasts with pollution under tow?

So you don't actually know what the primary task of the EPV is then?
READ THE RFP

thebig C
10th October 2007, 00:02
Of course the Naval Service wants to have more ships - it would be strange if they didn't. But every manager has to work with finite resources, and the first thing you have to do is be clear on the priorities. Emergency towing doesn't appear to be very high on the NS priority list: the RFP for the EPV that you posted in another thread doesn't mention emergency towing, but it does mention the possible transport of personnel, vehicles and equipment. I think that's a pretty clear indication of priorities.

hptmurphy
10th October 2007, 01:09
Former navy captain Peadar McElhinny argues the draft white paper on Defence is an embarrassment



Pity they weren't so vocal while in power rather than using it to get on the after dinner speech scene

Goldie fish
10th October 2007, 04:49
Of course the Naval Service wants to have more ships - it would be strange if they didn't. But every manager has to work with finite resources, and the first thing you have to do is be clear on the priorities. Emergency towing doesn't appear to be very high on the NS priority list: the RFP for the EPV that you posted in another thread doesn't mention emergency towing, but it does mention the possible transport of personnel, vehicles and equipment. I think that's a pretty clear indication of priorities.

You are twisting words now.


Again.


Question 10
What is the primary role for the EPV?

Answer 10
It is intended that the vessel will undertake a range of duties including, fishery protection, search and rescue, maritime protection, drug interdiction, anti-pollution and maritime security duties, including vessel boarding - 90% of which will relate to fishery protection. On limited occasions it may be used to carry personnel, military vehicles and equipment.

That is what the EPV is for.

thebig C
11th October 2007, 21:31
Remember this? http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/news_archive/where_is_ireland_s_emergency_towing_vessel_as_carg o_ship_sea_brie_hits_the_rocks

Wait a second, aren't they in Government now?

thebig C
15th October 2007, 06:36
Coastguard and anti-pollution vessels from Rolls-Royce

27 June 2007

More authorities are specifying Rolls-Royce ship designs and equipment for coastguard and anti-pollution vessels. Maritime states are increasingly aware of threats to their coastlines and exclusive economic zones (EEZ). The nature and seriousness of the threats varies from state to state. They may include fisheries control and prevention of illegal fishing, emergency towing of ships with engine or steering failure which represent a pollution hazard if they drift ashore, and pollution control and clean up should the worst happen. In addition come a host of other coastguard functions.

One type which has come into prominence in recent years focusses on emergency towing, pollution control and oil spill recovery. Over the years, Europe has suffered several major oil spill incidents which have caused grave environmental damage, economic loss and public outcry. The Torrey Canyon and Amoco Cadiz alerted Britain and France to the risks. More recently the Braer incident in Shetland and the sinking of the tankers Erica and Prestige off the French and Spanish coasts have also encouraged governments and authorities to have more and better equipment available. The risk is not just from tankers. A few hundred tonnes of heavy bunker fuel can cause havoc along the coastline as the Rocknes and Server incidents in Norway show, and large container ships with large quantities of bunkers are a potential hazard, demonstrated by the MSC Napoli casualty on the Channel coast of England.

Rolls-Royce has built up extensive experience in designing and equipping ships that are stable and efficient working platforms and provide safe and comfortable living conditions for the crew. In each case the design is accompanied by a package of Rolls-Royce equipment and systems.

Iceland
http://www.rolls-royce.com/marine/images/news/ut512.jpgThe latest contract to be signed covers the design and equipment for a vessel ordered for the Icelandic coastguard, Landhelgisgæsla Islands. This multipurpose coastguard vessel is to be built by ASMAR in Chile. On completion in 2009 it will perform a variety of tasks, including coastguard duties and management of Iceland’s exclusive economic zone, fishery control, standby and rescue, emergency towing, pollution prevention, oil recovery and fire fighting. The new ship will replace Odin, one of Iceland’s three elderly but much respected existing coastguard vessels. It will have to operate over a very large area in a region with challenging weather conditions. At the same time increased tanker traffic, particularly on the north west Russia to USA route, presents a pollution risk to Iceland’s easily damaged coastlines.

http://www.rolls-royce.com/marine/images/news/ut515.jpgThe starting point for the design was the Norwegian coastguard vessel KV Harstad which is a UT512. This vessel entered service at the beginning of 2005 and has proved very successful. Although the capabilities required of the Icelandic and Norwegian vessels overlap they are not identical, so the new ship for Iceland is 10m longer and also faster. The design has been given the type number UT512L and the ship will have an easily propelled hull with a bulb bow, a long forecastle, a foredeck gun turret, a large wheelhouse set well back from the bow, and a working deck aft. It will have a speed of more than 20 knots and accommodation for 48 people in single and two berth cabins. A bollard pull of about 110 tonnes has been specified so that in emergency the new vessel will be able to tow stricken tankers of up to about 200,000dwt.

Rolls-Royce is supplying a package of equipment and systems to go with the design. Two Bergen main engines each rated at 4,500kW will provide the power in a twin screw arrangement with shaft generators on the main gearboxes and CP propellers. Although a substantial bollard pull is needed the high speed requirement made open water propellers the favoured solution. A Rolls-Royce dynamic positioning system will meet the IMO DP1 standard, working in conjunction with a Poscon joystick system to control the engines, propellers, high lift flap rudders with independent steering gear and the four thrusters. The thruster outlet comprises two 450kW tunnel thrusters at the bow together with an 883kW swing up azimuth thruster and there will be a third tunnel thruster installed in the stern skeg. The machinery can be run in several modes, reducing the amount of energy needed to satisfy the vessel’s many operating profiles and so minimising the environmental footprint.

Spain
http://www.rolls-royce.com/marine/images/news/ut517_a.jpgTwo coastal protection vessels of Rolls-Royce design have been delivered to the Spanish safety authority SASEMAR. The first, Don Inda, was handed over at the end of 2006 and was followed by Clara Campoamor in March 2007. They represent a massive strengthening of resources for emergency towing of vessels in trouble, salvage work if the worst happens and both minimising the impact of oil spills and skimming up floating oil.

SASEMAR wanted vessels that are very good at towing, with a large installed tower and powerful winches. Oil spill control and recovery was also a very high priority. The well proven UT 722 L offshore design proved to be a good starting point. However, the Spanish vessels are purpose designed and have a much deeper hull than the offshore design. Don Inda is 80m long with a beam of 18m. Four 8 cylinder Bergen B32:40 engines produce a total of 16,000 kW and are coupled in pairs to two CP propellers. The inner engine of each pair drives a fire pump. The result is a bollard pull of about 220 tonnes together with a maximum sped of 17.6 knots. The two drum hydraulic Rolls-Royce towing winch is matched to the bollard pull. In some situations these SASEMAR vessels will be required to push disabled ships, so there is a very large bow fender and an escort winch on the foredeck.

A comprehensive range of oil booms and skimming equipment enables Don Inda and its sister to clear oil pollution both on the open sea and in more restricted waters. Oil booms can be set out and skimmers deployed to collect oil. In confined waters, two 15m long floating arms can be deployed from the ship’s side in a wide vee shape. The vessel moves through the oil spill sweeping oil towards the recovery pumps.

An important feature of these two vessels is the extremely large tank capacity for recovered oil, amounting to about 1,730m³. But compared with other vessels with recovered oil capacity this figure can be multiplied because an oil separation system is built in. Instead of the typical 50:50 mix of recovered oil and water pumped to the tanks, the separator discharges back to the sea water of a cleanliness meeting environmental regulations, so that the tanks are filled with about 95% oil and only 5% water. Recovered oil can be heated for pumping to another vessel or ashore so that in the event of a massive oil spill, the SASEMAR vessels can act as both oil spill recoverers and as pumping vessels.

France
Les Abeilles International in Groupe Bourbon is operating two coast protection vessels of Rolls-Royce design on charter to the French navy. Abeille Bourbon and Abeille Liberté were built by Myklebust Verft in Norway. The former is stationed in Brest and the latter in Cherbourg. The principal French requirements were to provide assistance to vessels at sea, deep sea towing, salvage of vessels in distress, fire and flooding control and antipollution activity. To met these requirements the UT 515 design was developed, and on trials Abeille Bourbon demonstrated a bollard pull of over 200 tones together with a speed of 19.8 knots at the maximum continuous engine rating corresponding to about 16,000kW. On deck Abeille Bourbon and sister are essentially laid out as deep sea towing and salvage tugs with a large two drum hydraulic winch.

The two new vessels have taken over at these key locations from the salvage tugs Abeille Flandres and Abeille Languedoc which were type UT 507 and built in 1978 and 1979. The old vessels have been very successful and remain in service but have moved to other locations.

UK
Some years ago the United Kingdom recognised the need for emergency towing and pollution prevention vessels to protect its long coastline. Following extensive studies the emergency towing vessel programme was put into action and Klyne Tugs won an eight year contract to station vessels on standby at key locations. The four broad operating areas are the Channel western approaches, Straits of Dover, Northern Scotland, and the west coast of Scotland. Two of the vessels were purpose built to a Rolls-Royce UT 719 T design derived from the multifunctional UT 719 offshore hull but optimised for the task, with a focus on towing and pollution prevention. Anglian Princess and Anglian Sovereign were built in China by Yantai Raffles and were delivered in 2002 and 2003. Recently Klyne Tugs won a two year extension to their contract from the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency MCA. through to 2011.

India
In India the first of three coastguard vessels for the Indian Navy is being fitted out at the ABG Shipyard. These three ships are specially designed by Rolls-Royce, have the type number UT 517 and the contract includes a full package of Rolls-Royce equipment.


Australia
In August 2006 the Australian government finalised a long term charter that bases the Swire Pacific Offshore UT 738 ETV Pacific Responder in Cairns to provide emergency towing services covering the northern Great Barrier Reef and the Torres Strait region.
Pacific Responder was built by Pan United in Indonesia to the UT 738 design. The 64.3m long, 80 tonne bollard pull anchorhandling tug supply vessel has been modified for its new ETV role."

thebig C
21st October 2007, 16:40
From the Sunday Business Post, 28 May 2006:

http://www.mainport.ie/images/article1.jpg

Test Pilot
21st October 2007, 22:17
Took this pic of the ETV 'Anglican Princess' on station off Penzance, in Cornwall a few weeks ago. Note the MCA logo. She is on call all year for any emergency that may arise with shipping.

thebig C
21st October 2007, 23:19
Took this pic of the ETV 'Anglican Princess' on station off Penzance, in Cornwall a few weeks ago. Note the MCA logo. She is on call all year for any emergency that may arise with shipping.


The Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) awarded Klyne Tugs of Lowestoft the eight-year contract for provision of Emergency Towing Vessels (ETV) to protect the British coastline.

If the Irish Government ever get serious about providing an ETV facility, the first question will be whether to follow the UK example and hire privately-owned and -operated tugs for the job, or the example of other countries in Europe and elsewhere - detailed in earlier posts - and combine the ETV capability with other Coastguard/Naval jobs in a multi-purpose vessel. The latter would seem to be a more efficient solution for a smaller country.

Goldie fish
22nd October 2007, 00:01
Flip flop...

pmtts
22nd October 2007, 09:52
Took this pic of the ETV 'Anglican Princess' on station off Penzance, in Cornwall a few weeks ago. Note the MCA logo. She is on call all year for any emergency that may arise with shipping.

The Anglican Monarch is the ETV that visit's my area often.

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/press/albums/Press-release-images/dovermca036.sized.jpg

Test Pilot
22nd October 2007, 20:36
The Anglican Monarch is the ETV that visit's my area often.


Hi PMTTS, hope you don't mind, I cleaned up your photo a bit as it was such a good shot with the tug pushing water, I couldn't resist.
Nice part of the world the New Forrest!

thebig C
22nd October 2007, 21:01
Just a minor bit of nitpicking: isn't it 'Anglian' rather than 'Anglican'?

pmtts
22nd October 2007, 21:32
Hi PMTTS, hope you don't mind, I cleaned up your photo a bit as it was such a good shot with the tug pushing water, I couldn't resist.
Nice part of the world the New Forrest!

Not at all, I relocated it from the MCA website but you have given the photo justice :smile:

I do have my own pic of an ETV towing a cruise ship in Southampton last year, but cant find it!.

Dogwatch
22nd October 2007, 23:38
The Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) awarded Klyne Tugs of Lowestoft the eight-year contract for provision of Emergency Towing Vessels (ETV) to protect the British coastline.
If the Irish Government ever get serious about providing an ETV facility, the first question will be whether to follow the UK example and hire privately-owned and -operated tugs for the job, or the example of other countries in Europe and elsewhere - detailed in earlier posts - and combine the ETV capability with other Coastguard/Naval jobs in a multi-purpose vessel. The latter would seem to be a more efficient solution for a smaller country.

I would agree that the latter would be more efficient. Have also attached a grounding / salvage op that a Klyne tug was involved in......however on the wrong side of the fence! It was the vessel that went aground.... because of a drunk skipper.

This is exactly the reason why it shouldn't go to contract!
http://www.maib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/Synopsis_Anglian%20Sovereign.pdf
http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_reports/2006/anglian_sovereign.cfm
Summary:
Report on the investigation of the grounding of UK registered emergency towing vessel Anglian Sovereign near the island of Oxna, in the Shetland Islands on 3 September 2005. Report no 16/2006. Published 30 June 2006.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/5016144.stm
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40762000/jpg/_40762592_tug203.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40765000/jpg/_40765524_tug203.jpg

Test Pilot
23rd October 2007, 20:25
Just a minor bit of nitpicking: isn't it 'Anglian' rather than 'Anglican'?

Quite right! I must have been missing from school the day they were teaching spelling. Thank God for 'spell check'!

ZULU
12th January 2010, 20:26
Meh. Used this thread to ask a question.

I caught the last bit of a news brief that a ship off tramore has lost a couple of containers over the side carrying toxic chemicals?

Any more info?

Goldie fish
12th January 2010, 20:54
Hundreds of containers are washed overboard every year. Shouldnt be a problem as the hazardous stuff is usually well sealed up.
Time to get Nick Adonidas out Tramore way...

Dogwatch
12th January 2010, 22:55
http://media.shipspotting.com/uploads/thumbs/rw/1004178_800/Ship+Photo+BG+Dublin.jpg
The vessel that lost the containers, currently entering Cork Hbr (at approx 2200 hrs on 12 Jan).

The Green Party stance on ETV, when they weren't in government!

Greens call for investigation into stricken submarine rescue operation
Issued: 06 October 2004
6 October 2004
Greens call for investigation into stricken submarine rescue operation

Speaking in the Dáil today, Green Party Marine spokesperson Eamon Ryan TD, questioned the Government?s continuing refusal to invest in an ocean going emergency towing vessel despite the recommendations to obtain one in an independent report 5 years ago; a lack highlighted by the difficulty in rescuing the Canadian submarine which is currently drifting off the Irish coast. The Green Party also plans to raise further questions on this topic with the newly appointed Minister of the Marine, Noel Dempsey.
Raising the matter under Standing Order 31, Deputy Ryan commended the bravery of the crews of LÉ Róisín, LÉ Aoife and the LÉ Niamh, all involved in bids to rescue the stricken Canadian submarine, the HMCS Chicoutimi. ?It is a testament to the courage and skill of our navy,? said Deputy Ryan.
?However, the rescue operation does raise serious questions about our Government's refusal to invest in an ocean going emergency tug vessel, recommended in an independent report five years ago ? which is why the Canadian submariners will have to wait 14 hours for a British towing vessel to reach the scene.?
?The Green Party has repeatedly raised concerns with both the Taoiseach and the Minister for the Marine about their decision not to invest in an ocean going emergency towing vessel. Hopefully, the events of the last two days will lead to the Government reversing its decision. At the very least, we need a full investigation into how prepared, or otherwise, we were for the unfolding events,? concluded Deputy Ryan.

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/news_archive/greens_call_for_investigation_into_stricken_submar ine_rescue_operation

Goldie fish
13th January 2010, 12:28
Navy joins search for missing containers
Wednesday, 13 January 2010 10:55
The LE Niamh navy vessel is en route to the location off the coast of Co Waterford where seven containers went overboard from a cargo vessel yesterday afternoon.

At least one of the containers is believed to contain a hazardous chemical Sodium Bromate.

The navy is working with the Coastguard service and the Environmental Protection Agency and a decision may be made later this morning to shoot and sink any of the containers if they are found floating.
The area in question is 20 miles south of Tramore.

The reason for this course of action is that it would be safer to sink the containers rather than allow them to be hazards for fishing boats and to stop them coming ashore.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0113/waterford.html

Goldie fish
13th January 2010, 15:54
Bird seed found in search for containers
Wednesday, 13 January 2010 12:31
The LE Niamh naval vessel has retrieved a number of bags of bird seed from the water in its search for a number of containers which went overboard from a cargo vessel yesterday.

So far there have been no sightings of the seven 40-foot containers, which fell into the sea off the south coast about 20 miles off Tramore.

It is now believed that all containers sank.

The containers were carrying bird food, fire logs, medical equipment and one contained the hazardous material Sodium Bromate.

The Coast Guard helicopter is due to search again this afternoon and the LE Niamh remains in the vicinity.

Naval officers on board the LE Niamh say the missing containers are undectable by radar.

Members of the public are being urged to stay at least 100 metres away from the containers, should they happen to come ashore over the next few days.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0113/waterford.html

Test Pilot
13th January 2010, 17:05
If you want to age rapidly, try this.

This was taken yesterday in the same weather that the container ship lost her containers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLIzp3WLpQE

Have a look at the bit about three minutes in to the video. Phew!

Dogwatch
14th January 2010, 23:18
http://media.shipspotting.com/uploads/thumbs/rw/932510_800/Ship+Photo+KBV+001.jpg
What the Swedish CG recently got from DAMEN in Holland. Should the NS get one?

http://media.shipspotting.com/uploads/thumbs/rw/936220_800/Ship+Photo+KBV+001.jpg

All three Damen MPV 8116 vessels are of the multifunctional patrol and emergency response type. Considerable research went into the operational requirements for the vessels that are intended to reduce the risk of major marine pollution on the Baltic coastline of Sweden and the narrow but busy waters separating Sweden and Denmark.
The primary role of the ships is to patrol the territorial waters of Sweden, engaged in general Coast Guard duties such as fishery, environmental and marine traffic control as well as to conduct search and rescue operations, including diving and the operation of ROVs.
For emergency response duties in the harsh and relatively cold conditions of the Baltic, the vessels are equipped for emergency towing (110 tons bollard pull and strong enough to hold a 150.000 dwt tanker on station in a severe gale), salvage, fire fighting (Fi-Fi 1 notation), oil spill recovery and lightering operations.

To support the above functionality the vessels are equipped with advanced and integrated automation, alarm and monitoring systems.
The vessels have a diesel electric propulsion system with 6 diesel generators for power generation, providing flexibility, redundancy and reliability.

Furthermore, the vessels are fitted with a double hull and bottom and are fully capable of navigating in ice (ice class 1A*). The area of operation stretches to above the polar circle (GMDSS Area A4). Dynamic position systems further enhance their station keeping capabilities (maintain constant position and heading under Force 7 conditions).
In order to minimize the environmental impact, the vessels are optimized for low fuel consumption in combination with extensive energy recovery from waste heat. The exhaust gas systems are equipped with special urea reactors to reduce NOx emissions.

All above qualities make these unique and highly sophisticated ships and technology leaders in a class of their own.
'KBV 002' is scheduled for delivery in December 2009, with the third and even more complex “KBV 003” to follow in May 2010.

http://www.damen.nl/News/First_Damen_Multi_Purpose_Vessel_8116_delivered!.a spx?mId=8565&rId=538&sId=3

simon
15th January 2010, 03:05
Its something I've said for years - run it as an RFA type vessel - semistate.

Two vessels, capable of ETV, SOPEP and barge towage.

Operate on commercial lease when possible for survey and other tasks - make it DP to assist Irish lights when needed for buoy tender etc.

Its a no brainer, but it will require an Exon Valdez in Dublin bay for the Government to do anything - and this is the case with all parties, not just FF and the Greens.

Ireland simply does not have an adequete marine mindset

Goldie fish
15th January 2010, 11:42
Its something I've said for years - run it as an RFA type vessel - semistate.

Two vessels, capable of ETV, SOPEP and barge towage.

Operate on commercial lease when possible for survey and other tasks - make it DP to assist Irish lights when needed for buoy tender etc.

Its a no brainer, but it will require an Exon Valdez in Dublin bay for the Government to do anything - and this is the case with all parties, not just FF and the Greens.

Ireland simply does not have an adequete marine mindset

+1

There is plenty of work for such a vessel, and they would be fine for inshore patrolling too.
However our government are inward looking(that is when they aren't completely blindfolded).

simon
15th January 2010, 13:03
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/Kingston_class_patrol.jpg

At the top end of what is available you have the Canadian Kingston class, with provision could be adapted to Irish needs by beefing up the framing/ engines for towage.

The vessel, like Roisin and other OPVs around the world is built to commercial standards to reduce cost

Essentially a mine countermeasures vessel that at the end of the cold war got re-vamped to cover other tasks.

With for 2x 20 foot container provision & power hookup, large deck space etc she could be used in a semi commercial way, particularly with DP II
Thats good for survey, ROV offshore work and a range of tasks

Compliment is a bit large, vessel like this could manage very well with 3/4 deck officers, 2/3 engineers, 5 deck rates, 2 ER rates and 2 catering - thats 16 leaving space for technicians, specialists, Naval Reserve trainees, divers, salvage experts etc.

Goldie fish
15th January 2010, 13:04
Don't the Canadian Naval Reserve operate those vessels?

simon
15th January 2010, 14:52
Yup - I think there are 16 in the class, 14 operated by reserve, and we have a pool in Ireland of qualified marine officers with tow, salvge and offshore experience, myself included

zone 1
15th January 2010, 15:15
i was on board summerset a Kingston class one time in Halifax naval base crew were reserves all right fine ship in the lines of a peacock below decks

Goldie fish
15th January 2010, 16:05
i was on board summerset a Kingston class one time in Halifax naval base crew were reserves all right fine ship in the lines of a peacock below decks

By that I assume you mean "Very Cramped".

simon
15th January 2010, 16:54
i was on board summerset a Kingston class one time in Halifax naval base crew were reserves all right fine ship in the lines of a peacock below decks

oof! bit tight for Merchant standards that - but as I pointed out, the compliment is very heavy for what would be required in Ireland / Western EU other than for specialist roles where extra bodies would be needed

zone 1
15th January 2010, 17:37
ye Goldie very cramped to me the ratings mess on the peacocks is bigger which would be hard to believe

Goldie fish
6th March 2011, 23:58
From Program for government(very last page).


Safety at sea and decent working conditions must underpin the development of the fisheries
sector. We will explore the provision of an emergency towing vessel for the Coastguard.

easyrider
7th March 2011, 01:37
Another lucrative Coastguard contract?

pmtts
7th March 2011, 10:26
Another lucrative Coastguard contract?

Maybe they can lease the KTL vessels when the MCA ETV contract ends very soon.

chrisr
7th March 2011, 20:27
would be nice if they could spell Coast Guard

Goldie fish
7th March 2011, 20:54
Looks fine to me chris.

chrisr
8th March 2011, 18:07
Coastguard as one word means subject to HM Crown. Have had a lot levied against the CG but not that!

Goldie fish
8th March 2011, 18:18
Maybe it will save cost to have the former HM Coastguard ETV operating with our "Coast Guard"? No need to repaint the hull to make a space between the words on the side?
https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/press/albums/Press-release-images/DSC_0087.sized.jpg
Like you had to do when it changed from IMES....
It's a touch pedantic if you don't mind me saying so. Like the Difference between Navy and Naval service. As long as the job gets done, who cares what it's called.

DeV
8th March 2011, 18:24
Maybe it will save cost to have the former HM Coastguard ETV operating with our "Coast Guard"? No need to repaint the hull to make a space between the words on the side?
https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/press/albums/Press-release-images/DSC_0087.sized.jpg
Like you had to do when it changed from IMES....
It's a touch pedantic if you don't mind me saying so. Like the Difference between Navy and Naval service. As long as the job gets done, who cares what it's called.

Looks like it could do with a coat of paint!

If wiki is correct, the company may just keep them?

Would it be possible to get the bollard tow capability as part of the EPV?

Goldie fish
8th March 2011, 18:26
It's an MOU rather than a contract at the moment.

DeV
8th March 2011, 18:33
Editted my post just read what wiki says about it

Lorenco
8th March 2011, 21:11
Sadly our successive governments have never woken up to the fact that we are an island nation. Thats what we get for electing bogmen.

Goldie fish
8th March 2011, 21:39
To get the bollard pull required on an EPV then you don't have an EPV any more, you have an ETV.

DeV
9th March 2011, 01:27
How about replacing an aging OPV/CPV with a ETV?

It could be equipped to preform all the NS roles with possibly 76mm.

http://www.bonnagreement.org/eng/doc/Chapter28%20-%20Emergency%20towing.pdf (we signed up to this in 2001!)

Although most nations seem to contract it out and/or enter agreements with their neighbours!

http://www.bonnagreement.org/eng/html/counter-pollution_manual/Chapter14_Ireland%20national%20organisation.htm

Goldie fish
9th March 2011, 04:46
It's an option I have suggested in the past, however at present it is not a priority for the Naval service, and the Garda Cósta seem keen to retain it in their AO.

Goldie fish
9th March 2011, 11:22
Sadly our successive governments have never woken up to the fact that we are an island nation. Thats what we get for electing bogmen.

We are an Island? When did this happen?
At least 70% of the current government realise there is sea surrounding the island. That's why the mention of ETV made it into the program for government. Not sure about the others.

DeV
9th March 2011, 13:20
Garda Cósta seem keen to retain it in their AO.

I'd say if it is it will be contracted out. Which may not be a bad thing as you'd probably need 2 vessels to provide 365/24/7 capability?!

Pollution control is part of IRCG's job, but assisting is part of the NS's job.

Goldie fish
9th March 2011, 14:06
It was always and will always be the NS job until the IRCG get their act together and have assets capable of responding.

chrisr
10th March 2011, 11:01
the only issue here is bollard pull and the training and experience to use it. Whether NS or contracted is at this point a matter of value for money and maximum utility of the vessel across the broad range of generic CG functions. There are many many models that are possible from a NS/CG vessel to a contracted vessel and towing master crewed in part by the NS to full contracting and crewing. I know which one would be best for both services. or else you obtain the BP in industry by incentivisation and up the preventative and mitigation measures.

PS an organisations name is quite important to it as I assume yours is - unless you dont like it?

DeV
10th March 2011, 14:53
I know which one would be best for both services

Whats the best option and why?

Goldie fish
10th March 2011, 19:14
PS an organisations name is quite important to it as I assume yours is - unless you dont like it?

Mine has changed numerous times over the years, but i still answer the phone the way I did from day one and nobody gets confused.

chrisr
11th March 2011, 16:59
Whats the best option and why?


Leased by the IRCG and operated by the NS to excecute all their designated functions within pre-defined operational boundaries with ship-rider towing master. In some ways similar to the Sligo leased heli idea only with a full NS remit and no back tracking on operational committments.

Goldie fish
11th March 2011, 17:08
It would be an interesting option for CPV replacements, but surely you need more than just a ship rider towing master? A highly experienced heavy towing crew is vital, as you would be operating usually in the worst of conditions. Most anchor cranker crews have learnt the ropes (literally) on low risk manouvering jobs, and not trying to prevent a supertanker from ploughing into Skellig Michael.

You either have a fully trained crew, or none at all. Surely history has told us that being jack of all trades, and master of none, only leads to tragedy.

danno
11th March 2011, 20:49
Maybe some temp commissions to upskill would deal with this.

easyrider
11th March 2011, 23:43
The Norwegian Coast Guard have a number of ships that mostly do fishery protection but can also do emergency towing - how do they man/train their crews?

Dogwatch
12th March 2011, 00:39
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=994&g2_serialNumber=2

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=988&g2_serialNumber=2

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=991&g2_serialNumber=2
P22 towing MV Breaksea, preventing her going aground on Tuskar Rk, March 2006.

This would make a nice ETV
http://www.damen.nl/Uploads/Multi_Purpose_Vessel_8116-YN551009-KBV002_20100121_500_537.jpg
Swedish CG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/ETV_Baltic_September_2010.JPG/800px-ETV_Baltic_September_2010.JPG
German ETV

danno
12th March 2011, 10:18
As already posted if etvs were acquired by NS and armed they would fulfill many roles incl patrolling designate as PVTs

easyrider
12th March 2011, 11:48
The Rolls-Royce UT range of vessels seem to be very popular for this type of role:

http://www.rolls-royce.com/marine/products/ship_design/naval_support_vessels/cpv/index.jsp

Marius
13th March 2011, 01:08
Great photos Dogwatch. Big sea there!

Goldie fish
25th March 2011, 16:06
Vessel currently on the Blocks for Iceland, though it was damaged during last years Earthquake in Chile(Being built there by ASMAR) Another RollS Royce type..
http://www.ship-info.com/vessels/v123.gif
100 Tonne Bollard pull though.

Goldie fish
31st March 2011, 11:18
OOPS!



No pollution from cargo vessel run aground off Galway coast
Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 09:40 AM



Coastguard officials say there has been no pollution from a cargo vessel which has run aground off the Co Galway coast.

The 120 metre vessel went onto rocks in Cashla Bay in the early hours of this morning.

It had arrived at Rossaveal harbour yesterday evening.

The crew is still on board, and efforts will be made to refloat the vessel at high tide, which is due at about 5pm this evening.



Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/no-pollution-from-cargo-vessel-run-aground-off-galway-coast-499332.html#ixzz1IANrOe95

The ETV will sort it out in no time I'm sure...
Oh Wait! We have to wait for one from the UK.
Cargo Vessel Pantanal I think.

pmtts
31st March 2011, 11:33
OOPS!


Cargo Vessel Pantanal I think.

Here's the current AIS map for the vessel.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc91/pmtts/pan.jpg

Goldie fish
31st March 2011, 11:41
It seems she was entering the harbour to recover 2 ferries that had been seized by the bank. She is a heavy lift vessel, often used in the offshore wind farm industry to transfer towers.
Odd that she was unable to collect the ferries....


Cargo ship runs aground off Connemara
The owners of a 7,000-ton cargo ship which ran aground at Casla Bay in Connemara, Co Galway, are trying to establish it can be refloated later today.

The German-owned ship, with 14 crew on board, arrived yesterday and was due to pick up two small passenger ferries at Rossaveal Harbour.

The two boats had been repossessed by a bank and were sold in Galway last month.

The 'Pantanal', which is registered in Newfoundland, Canada, ran aground in heavy seas at around 6am this morning.

Efforts will be made to raise the boat when high tide comes at 5pm.

There are no reports of any oil spillage at the moment, but the Irish Coast Guard is monitoring the situation


http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0331/connemara.html

http://img.rasset.ie/000467dc-640.jpg
http://img.rasset.ie/000467db-640.jpg

Goldie fish
31st March 2011, 13:36
These are the boats it was collecting.
http://www.dominicjdaly.com/Ferry.pdf

easyrider
31st March 2011, 14:39
According to the Irish Times website, she dragged her anchor in heavy seas early this morning. Presumably she was waiting for daylight and/or high tide, before entering the port to pick up the ferries.

Sluggie
31st March 2011, 16:00
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23635

14 pages of discussion on the various business interests of the former owner of the ferries in question.

Goldie fish
31st March 2011, 18:19
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23635

14 pages of discussion on the various business interests of the former owner of the ferries in question.

Wow, thats something else.

Maybe the ship ran aground on a plastic house moulding machine?

Goldie fish
1st April 2011, 10:57
Tug boat refloats ship off Galway coast
Friday, April 01, 2011 - 08:59 AM



Efforts to refloat a cargo ship which ran aground off the Galway coast yesterday have been successful.

The 7,000 tonne vessel got into difficulty near Rossaveal Harbour when strong winds dragged into on to rocks.

A tug from Shannon helped refloat the ship at about 5.30am this morning.

The owners of the boat are now examining it for possible damage.

Anyone know whose tug?

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/tug-boat-refloats-ship-off-galway-coast-499486.html#ixzz1IGBY3I8b

easyrider
1st April 2011, 12:25
Tug from Foynes? Isn't there a tug company based there?

Goldie fish
1st April 2011, 15:58
Tug from Foynes? Isn't there a tug company based there?

Yeah, Celtic Isle from Foynes it seems.

Normally works at Aughinish Alumina.
http://www.mainport.ie/files/imagecache/page/images/Celtic%20Isle.JPG
http://www.mainport.ie/files/Celtic%20Isle.PDF

56T Bollard Pull.

IMO 8514693

danno
1st April 2011, 21:50
[QUOTE=Goldie fish;331270]Anyone know whose tug?


The owner is Irish Mainport Holdings Ltd.
Would have thought the OOW would have heard GPS alarm when anchor started to drag.

Was on one of the ferries concerned,chatting to one of the crew,he was unaware of AIS even though he stated he was able to helm etc.Often noted the vessels do not come up on AIS poss as under 300t.

Sluggie
7th April 2011, 13:41
More trouble with the ferries.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0407/galway.html

Goldie fish
7th April 2011, 14:36
Not the same ship, thankfully, but a similar type. Are they the same ferries though?

Goldie fish
7th April 2011, 21:26
They are the same ferries. Who thought it would be a good idea to be lifted from water onto ship by crane????

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0407/galway.html#video

pmtts
7th April 2011, 22:01
They are the same ferries. Who thought it would be a good idea to be lifted from water onto ship by crane????

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0407/galway.html#video

I take it the injured were not supposed to be inside the ferry as it was being lifted?

Goldie fish
7th April 2011, 22:07
Nobody should be in anything that is being lifted by crane, unless they are in a basket designed for carrying people.

Goldie fish
14th April 2011, 22:33
The latest ship to attempt to take these ships away has been arrested in Galway.....



Cargo ship detained in Galway docks

The cargo ship that was due to transport two passenger ferries from Galway to the Indian Ocean island of Mauritius has been placed under arrest in Galway docks this afternoon.

The order detaining the 7,000-tonne Danish-registered Thor Gitta was made by the Admiralty Court.

Harbour Master Brian Sheridan said he had not been informed why the ship was being detained, but it would mean the immediate suspension of any plans to transport the two ferries from Galway.
Last week, three men were injured when one of the ferries fell 12 metres from a sling as it was being loaded onto the Thor Gitta in Galway Harbour.

A fresh bid to move the ferries was to have been made early today but it was cancelled because of what were described as 'legal and insurance' issues.

Capt Sheridan said the issues had arisen between the French company which bought the passenger ferries and the Danish cargo ship's agents.

The two passenger ferries had been owned by a well-known Galway businessman but were repossessed by a bank and were sold to the French company following a public auction last month.

A first attempt to transport them to Mauritius had to be abandoned when another freighter, the Pantanal, ran aground and was holed during a storm at Rossaveal.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0414/galway.html



Dodgy out..

Herald
14th April 2011, 22:51
That guy Clancy must have some powerful Ju-Ju!!
On a slightly seperate issue, these new legal proceedings seem to have been made by the admialty court, does anyone know how the admiralty court works, and how it fits into the Irish legal system?

danno
14th April 2011, 23:00
does anyone know how the admiralty court works, and how it fits into the Irish legal system?

Its a division of the High Court and has full jurisdiction on matters arising under the Merchant Shiping Acts.Had a look at todays list and nothing is listed re Thor Gitta,order must have been made ex parte and come back before the Court early naxt week.

DeV
14th April 2011, 23:51
Do we know why it has been detained?

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=220573000

danno
15th April 2011, 00:03
[QUOTE=DeV;332901]Do we know why it has been detained?

Nothing def on news reports.Must be a local angle to it as the main parties would be bound on a common contract which provides for dispute resolution either by arbitration or by agreed courts and laws of a certain country.

Herald
15th April 2011, 00:08
Its a division of the High Court and has full jurisdiction on matters arising under the Merchant Shiping Acts.Had a look at todays list and nothing is listed re Thor Gitta,order must have been made ex parte and come back before the Court early naxt week.

Thanks Danno.
Strange the term "admiralty" still being used in the highcourt, surprised it hasnt been changed to "maritime" or "oceanic" or something.

Goldie fish
15th April 2011, 17:37
Do we know why it has been detained?

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=220573000

The owners of the cargo are not satisfied that (a) it can safely carry their property and (b) they will be refunded for any damage caused during the last attempt to load them.
The ship has also been detained for inspection by Port State control, and deficiencies have been found relating to her cargo handling operations including equipment.

It is very interesting though, Pantanal has also been detained by Port State control. During an earlier inspection, her nautical publications were found to be out of date.

http://www.parismou.org/Inspection_efforts/Detentions/Current_detentions/

DeV
15th April 2011, 17:51
Or a fatal accident 2 years ago?

http://www.sofartsstyrelsen.dk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Publikationer/Ulykker%20til%20s%C3%B8s/OKE%20Rapporter/Handelsskib/Arbejdsulykker/2009/THOR_GITTA_21052009.pdf

Goldie fish
15th April 2011, 20:14
Or a fatal accident 2 years ago?

http://www.sofartsstyrelsen.dk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Publikationer/Ulykker%20til%20s%C3%B8s/OKE%20Rapporter/Handelsskib/Arbejdsulykker/2009/THOR_GITTA_21052009.pdf

Unfortunately, that sort of accident is a common ocurrence with some companies.
A company I once worked for suffered 6 fatalities aboard ship caused by accident in the 4 months I was with them.

Goldie fish
20th April 2011, 11:41
New attempt to load Galway ferries
Updated: 10:25, Wednesday, 20 April 2011

A fresh attempt is being made this morning to move two Aran Island ferries that have been at the centre of a series of incidents in Galway Harbour.


A fresh attempt is being made this morning to move two Aran Island ferries that have been at the centre of a series of incidents in Galway Harbour.

The boats are to be transported to Mauritius on board the 7,000-tonne Danish registered cargo ship, the Thor Gitta.

Two attempts to load them onto the deck of the ship have been unsuccessful.

On the first attempt three men were injured when a sling broke as one of the ferries was being hoisted. It fell 12m back into the sea.

The second attempt to lift the ferries was abandoned when an alarm on the Thor Gitta's lifting crane went off.

A previous attempt to transport the ferries to Mauritius had to be abandoned when another freighter, the Pantanal, ran aground and was holed during a storm at Rossaveal.

This morning, the two ferries were brought alongside the Thor Gitta.

Galway Harbour Master Brian Sheridan said the latest attempt to load them will get under way about 11am.

from rte.ie

easyrider
20th April 2011, 12:36
Sounds like those ferries are heavier than expected?

Goldie fish
20th April 2011, 12:55
When the crane screams and beeps at you that it can't lift the weight, that usually a sign to cancel the lift, and not just silence the alarm....

Brian McGrath
20th April 2011, 13:22
Check out Galway Ships website I uploaded a lot of pictures including some from today of the lift, they are in the new gallery.

Link: http://galwayships.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=11

Latus
27th April 2011, 02:20
Those are links to photos and info from Icelandic coast guard homepage about the various stages of Iceland’s new OPV “Thor” building process, delivery is estimated late August this year. Iceland has one of its OPV patrolling the Mediterranean and will send another vessel when Thor is delivered

http://www.lhg.is/starfsemi/adgerdasvid/nyttvardskipogflugvel/Vardskip/

A video from the launching ceremony:

http://kvikmynd.is/mynd/?v=8479

Goldie fish
27th April 2011, 19:03
Great clip Latus, thank you for sharing.
Has the delivery been delayed much by the Chilean Earthquake?

Latus
27th April 2011, 20:20
Great clip Latus, thank you for sharing.
Has the delivery been delayed much by the Chilean Earthquake?

First delivery was estimated in beginning of 2010 now they set the date to 31 August this year, so the delays could be close to 2 years, electrical motors wirings and even pumps had to be replaced,probably it took the Norwegians time to manufacture new equipment, the hull itself suffered no damage...
a tow ship is much needed in Icelandic waters, oil tanker traffic from Murmansk to America has increased enormously and they seam to be in a lot of hurry...they often take the route close to Iceland’s North-West corner.. theistic forecast there is notorious unreliable.. fresh visual inspection from a flyover is the only info to be really trusted.

This newsclip is since Thor’s sister ship Harstad came for celebration and tow practice instead of tow training they where involved in real strand,,...must click “Horfa á myndskeyð með frétt” to watch


http://www.visir.is/article/20090604/FRETTIR01/372499084/1265

Rhodes
27th April 2011, 21:00
Iceland has one of its OPV patrolling the Mediterranean and will send another vessel when Thor is delivered

What are they doing in the Mediterranean?

Latus
27th April 2011, 21:52
What are they doing in the Mediterranean?

When the unrest in Libya began they got a request to monitor parts of the Shengen southern border, they have a “spy plaine”there as well, a Dash 8 full of Swedish cutting edge technology on the inside this is a PDF with some technical info in Icelandic and English about that plaine:
http://www.lhg.is/media/arsskyrslur/LHG_TFSIF_baeklingur.pdf
This is are specification about the new ship.Thor.... but only in Icelandic :


http://www.lhg.is/media/arsskyrslur/Glaerukynning_f_skip.pdf

Goldie fish
27th April 2011, 22:23
I heard the trip was cancelled.

Latus
27th April 2011, 22:51
I heard the trip was cancelled.

It may have been canceled, but then it must have been a last minute cancellation..they painted the EU flag on Týr about 10 days ago...They will patrol the area on behalf of Frontex a European border institute
http://www.mbl.is/frettir/innlent/2011/04/16/fani_esb_a_vardskipinu/

Latus
28th April 2011, 09:57
I heard the trip was cancelled.

You are rigth the trip was canceled ..
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2011/03/23/icelandic-patrol-ship-will-not-go-to-mediterranean-this-summer/
they will do fishing inspection for the EU.. this is how Týr looks now :
http://kryppa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Esb-tyr-var%C3%B0skip.jpg

Latus
29th April 2011, 06:36
The Norwegian Coast Guard have a number of ships that mostly do fishery protection but can also do emergency towing - how do they man/train their crews?

After the Bourbon Dolphin accident the Norwegian reorganized the coast guard.

Tugs from he oil fields are called in for heavy and difficult tows
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b38woxy6IRc

Goldie fish
29th April 2011, 13:57
Is this the same operation?

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/showthread.php?p=334169#post334169

Latus
10th May 2011, 04:25
Is this the same operation?

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/showthread.php?p=334169#post334169

I guess it is,It looks like the ship has been contracted.There are no reliable news about this, Captain and crew aperantly do not have police power while the ship is on this mission the coat of arm has been removed also the gun and (whatever a state flag is called in English).... I guess they will stay in N-Atlantic,as far as I know only Ægir has been equipped with extra cooling to operate in warm se

Latus
16th June 2011, 11:29
I heard the trip was cancelled.

It only became common knowledge in Iceland about 10 days ago that Ægir is patrolling in  the Mediterranean because they saved 100 people in trouble on the way from Egypt to Italy,., the news came from the Greece naval authorities.. they found them 85 miles south of the island of Krit.. this are local news about this,,,

so Iceland has two ships there Týr as civilia and Ægir as patrol ship

http://www.mbl.is/frettir/erlent/2011/06/11/vs_aegir_bjargadi_um_100_manns/

Dogwatch
22nd June 2011, 13:29
It only became common knowledge in Iceland about 10 days ago that Ægir is patrolling in  the Mediterranean because they saved 100 people in trouble on the way from Egypt to Italy,., the news came from the Greece naval authorities.. they found them 85 miles south of the island of Krit.. this are local news about this,,,

so Iceland has two ships there Týr as civilia and Ægir as patrol ship

http://www.mbl.is/frettir/erlent/2011/06/11/vs_aegir_bjargadi_um_100_manns/

Varðskipið Aegir, who now attends the European border security, delivered today by about 100 people vélarvana sail boat near the island of Crete in the Mediterranean. People wanted to fly from Egypt to Italy, according to Greek strandgæslunnar.

AFP news agency the spokesman for the Greek strandgæslunnar ítölskum authorities in Rome had received a distress. "Originally, the search near Malta until the Icelandic cost guard ship from Frontex (European Border creation), they found near Crete," said the spokeswoman.

According to sources mbl.is was varðskipið Ægir people who found and took it on board. Aegir is a service Frontex but varðskipið Tyr performs monitoring of tuna fisheries in the Mediterranean for the EU Fisheries Surveillance. This is the biggest rescue of the Icelandic cost guard ship to date, which was rescued nearly 100 people.

Seglskipið stand was about 85 nautical miles (160 km) from the town on the southern tip of Paleohora Crete varðskipið already found it. It was said that 95 people were aboard the boat, but in an emergency the call was not the exact number. Nationality of the people was not known.

A spokesman said the Greek strandgæslunnar though unknown to most bátsverjar were men, but also that women and children on board. "Now they are being transferred to a vessel Frontex and the authorities have not decided where people will be moved to a medical check," said the spokeswoman.

Weather will be good in this area. Greece secured the help of Frontex last year to stem the heavy flow of refugees from Africa and Asia to the country.

http://www.mbl.is/frimg/5/60/560791.jpg

Priceless! A Non EU country involved in Frontex Missions & the Irish not involved. Bloody typical of this nation & the powers.

Latus
25th June 2011, 10:03
Varðskipið Aegir, who now attends the European border security, delivered today by about 100 people vélarvana sail boat near the island of Crete in the Mediterranean. People wanted to fly from Egypt to Italy, according to Greek strandgæslunnar.

AFP news agency the spokesman for the Greek strandgæslunnar ítölskum authorities in Rome had received a distress. "Originally, the search near Malta until the Icelandic cost guard ship from Frontex (European Border creation), they found near Crete," said the spokeswoman.

According to sources mbl.is was varðskipið Ægir people who found and took it on board. Aegir is a service Frontex but varðskipið Tyr performs monitoring of tuna fisheries in the Mediterranean for the EU Fisheries Surveillance. This is the biggest rescue of the Icelandic cost guard ship to date, which was rescued nearly 100 people.

Seglskipið stand was about 85 nautical miles (160 km) from the town on the southern tip of Paleohora Crete varðskipið already found it. It was said that 95 people were aboard the boat, but in an emergency the call was not the exact number. Nationality of the people was not known.

A spokesman said the Greek strandgæslunnar though unknown to most bátsverjar were men, but also that women and children on board. "Now they are being transferred to a vessel Frontex and the authorities have not decided where people will be moved to a medical check," said the spokeswoman.

Weather will be good in this area. Greece secured the help of Frontex last year to stem the heavy flow of refugees from Africa and Asia to the country.

http://www.mbl.is/frimg/5/60/560791.jpg

Priceless! A Non EU country involved in Frontex Missions & the Irish not involved. Bloody typical of this nation & the powers.
Iceland is actually a member of the Shengen border system and therefore also in Frontex.. the news says its the biggest rescue of people in history of the coast guard,, there where bigger ones during ww2

the trawler Skallagrímur picked 350 or more British sailors from the sea after a German submarine sunk a British warship .. cant find any details about that now..the grounding of Skeena the pride of Canadian army was also huge, and is little known as it was top secret... if Hitler had known Skeena was lost he might have changed plans, it was forbidden to even mention it in public

I only know about it from old people that lived the war and then from this memorandum a fisherman Einar Sigurðsson took charge of the situation..must be rather special .. a fisherman became a navy commander even multi national naval commander ...I found this about it.. its first in Icelandic.. if you scroll down a little there is a summary in English
http://www.sjavarutvegsraduneyti.is/radherra/Raedur_EKG/nr/1262

Dogwatch
3rd July 2011, 14:53
http://www.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/3/6/5/1343563.jpg
In her new colours for FRONTEX patrol!

Stinger
3rd July 2011, 22:55
Are the naval service planning on doing this on our ships? Seems a bit over the top. surely a flag would suffice?

Dogwatch
4th July 2011, 19:56
Are the naval service planning on doing this on our ships? Seems a bit over the top. surely a flag would suffice?

have to start doing frontex patrols first!

Dogwatch
28th July 2011, 00:41
http://cdn2.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/9/7/0/1359079.jpg
What the country needs!

easyrider
28th July 2011, 12:27
http://cdn2.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/9/7/0/1359079.jpg
What the country needs!

Well it'll have to be operated by the Coast Guard, cos the NS wouldn't have it unless it had a big gun on the front :n:)

Goldie fish
28th July 2011, 13:09
Well it'll have to be operated by the Coast Guard, cos the NS wouldn't have it unless it had a big gun on the front :n:)

Why say you so? The NS operated numerous craft without big guns up front, the most famous being Ferdia and Setanta.
If it does what it says on the tin, armament is not an issue.
In any case, there is plenty of space for a Bofors 40 or larger there.

hptmurphy
28th July 2011, 13:56
Plenty of space for a 25mm bushmaster on the top of the superstructure in from of the bridge,

No problems tacking on a couple of .5s mid ships.

Why not lease some for say three years and see how it works out to establih the requirement and show it works..then build one to your own spec or purchase the one you have lease if it proves adequate.

Turkey
28th July 2011, 18:49
The issue of weapons onboard is imaterial,what is wanted is a ocean going salvage tug, before, not after, we have a supertanker pile up on our coastline.
But if weapons are desierable for a supplementry role as a patrol vessel, then it could be as simple as 2 crwmen with a javalin, up to a 40mm Bofers, which are going to become surplus as the P20's are withdrawn.

DeV
28th July 2011, 18:56
How often is it going to be required? Go VFM means multi-role!

Turkey
28th July 2011, 19:18
How often is it going to be required? Go VFM means multi-role!


In which role? hopfully never, but a major maritime incident, could be enough to finish the country off altogether, particularly in the current economic climate.
But, if it also doubles as a patrol vessel, whats the problem?

Question: are there and pourpose built military tugs out there? I have my doubts.

easyrider
28th July 2011, 22:19
Well there's the Norwegian Coastguard vessel KV Harstad - a tug with a Bofors!

http://www.regjeringen.no/upload/FD/Temabilder/Kystvakt/harstad2.JPG

Dogwatch
29th July 2011, 00:14
How often is it going to be required? Go VFM means multi-role!

How more multirole can you get than the basic spec as per the attached link. Check out the pdf document attached to it.
http://www.damen.nl/index.aspx?mId=8573&rId=382

To paraphrase the multiroles:
Fishery protection,
environmental protection,
traffic control,
towing,
fire fighting,
oil recovering,
rescue/salvage operations,
ROV support

All taskings required by the NS in support of the CG in the current Service Level Agreement between the two organisations (exclude FP as it has nothing to do with the CG).

hptmurphy
29th July 2011, 03:00
drawn.But if weapons are desierable for a supplementry role as a patrol vessel, then it could be as simple as 2 crwmen with a javalin, up to a 40mm Bofers, which are going to become surplus as the P20's are with
__________________

As will a spell check!

Turkey
29th July 2011, 04:48
As will a spell check!

'that the best answer you can come up with? :biggrin:

DeV
29th July 2011, 07:57
In which role? hopfully never, but a major maritime incident, could be enough to finish the country off altogether, particularly in the current economic climate.
But, if it also doubles as a patrol vessel, whats the problem?

Question: are there and pourpose built military tugs out there? I have my doubts.


How more multirole can you get than the basic spec as per the attached link. Check out the pdf document attached to it.
http://www.damen.nl/index.aspx?mId=8573&rId=382

To paraphrase the multiroles:
Fishery protection,
environmental protection,
traffic control,
towing,
fire fighting,
oil recovering,
rescue/salvage operations,
ROV support

All taskings required by the NS in support of the CG in the current Service Level Agreement between the two organisations (exclude FP as it has nothing to do with the CG).

To be cost effective the primary tasking would need to be fishery protection (obviously it would be the first call where one of the other roles is required).

However, does the speed (16 knots) not limit it?

Goldie fish
29th July 2011, 11:08
For inshore work, no. Few trawlers operate at more than 12 knots. Once you have powerful RIBs for boarding it matters not.

hptmurphy
29th July 2011, 20:40
that the best answer you can come up with?

No !


However, does the speed (16 knots) not limit it?

Thats the cruising speed of a P.V. so its not really an issue.So I would suggest the cruising speed of this vessel to be about 12 kts.

Trawlers at fishing speed are very slow..2 or 3 knots...so as Goldie says once you have a couple of Rhibs no major problem.

Funnily enough we haven't had too many disasters in the past couple of years so I wonder is interest dwindling?

Goldie fish
24th September 2011, 14:58
Icelands newest Patrol vessel, ICGV Thor(thats not how they spell it) was Delivered yesterday.

http://www.lhg.is/media/skip/thor/large/THOR8.jpg

http://www.lhg.is/frettirogutgafa/frettir/nr/2039
https://picasaweb.google.com/114437244499836150161/Thorafhmyndir?authkey=Gv1sRgCMmU7r7LtLe-MA#
Thanks to Latus for the links

easyrider
24th September 2011, 18:37
I thought that had been seriously damaged in the ASMAR shipyard during the earthquake in Chile last year? Either the damage wasn't as bad as first thought, or they've done a great job of fixing and finishing the ship.

That design - the Rolls-Royce UT512 - seems to be the de facto standard for coast guard emergency towing vessels.

danno
25th September 2011, 10:59
Trend appears to be for an armed ETV for patrol purposes,more useful over a wider range of roles.

Goldie fish
3rd October 2011, 17:23
Another clip(thank you Latus) of the delivery of "ÞÓR" to the Icelandic Coastguard last week.

http://www.visir.is/thor-vaentanlegur-eftir-manud/article/2011110928995

http://www.asmar.cl/download/VIKINGO.pdf

jack nastyface
3rd October 2011, 18:23
Given the straightend financial times the CIL finds itself in could not some arrangment be reached with the state to use the Granuaile in this role? If shes not suitable, would it take much to convert her for it?

Goldie fish
10th October 2011, 09:54
Oil from stuck ship reaches beach
http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2011/10/09/1226162/118708-rena.jpg
Monday, October 10, 2011 - 07:09 AM


Small amounts of oil from a container ship stuck on a reef has started washing up at a popular New Zealand beach today, while work to extract oil from the vessel was called off because of weather concerns.

The Liberia-flagged Rena struck the Astrolabe Reef about 14 miles from Tauranga Harbour early on Wednesday, and has been foundering there since.

The 775ft ship has been leaking fuel, leading to fears it could cause an environmental disaster if it falls apart.

After beginning an operation yesterday to extract up to 1,700 tons of oil from the stricken ship, marine crews halted the pumping today after managing to remove just 10 tons.

Fist-sized clumps of oil were found at Mount Maunganui beach, a favourite spot for surfers, according to Maritime New Zealand, the agency responsible for shipping in the region.

The agency believes the ship has about 1,700 tons of oil and 200 tons of diesel on board. So far, an estimated 30 tons have leaked into the Bay of Plenty, a spot noted for its fishing, diving and aquatic wildlife.

Heavy swells and gale-force winds were forecast to hit the area today and last for a few days.

The agency said that a barge, the Awanuia, had begun pumping fuel from the stricken ship, but that work was called off in order to keep crews safe. The operation is expected to last at least two more days once it resumes.

“The weather is expected to deteriorate in the coming days, so we are working around the clock to remove the oil,” the agency said in a statement.

Salvage experts and naval architects are on board to monitor the ship, and sensors should indicate if the ship is in danger of breaking apart, the agency said.

“The top priority is to first remove the oil, then lighten the vessel by removing the containers, and finally move the ship off the reef,” it said.

A navy vessel, the Endeavour, will be used as a command platform for the operation. About 200 people are working on the operation, and New Zealand’s defence force has about 300 people standing by in case major beach clean-ups are needed.

So far, at least eight sea birds – six blue penguins and two shags – have been rescued from an oil slick that extends about three miles from the boat.

Yesterday, New Zealand Prime Minister John Key visited the area and demanded answers.

“This is a ship that’s ploughed into a well-documented reef in calm waters in the middle of the night at 17 knots. So, somebody needs to tell us why that’s happened,” he told reporters.

In a statement, the owners of the ship, Greece-based Costamare, said they were “cooperating fully with local authorities” and were making every effort to “control and minimise the environmental consequences of this incident”.

The company did not offer any explanation for the grounding.

Environmental agency Greenpeace denounced the spill and what it claims is a slow response.

“This is an unfortunate illustration of just how difficult it is to deal with oil spills at sea,” said Greenpeace spokesman Steve Abel. “Even a slow, and relatively accessible oil spill like this one has clearly stretched New Zealand’s response capability to its limits.”

“It is also a potential disaster for the blue whales and dolphins presently calving in the area, as well as numerous other marine species,” he said.

The Rena was built in 1990 and was carrying 1,351 containers of goods when it ran aground, according to the owners.

In addition to the oil, authorities are also concerned about some potentially dangerous goods on board, including four containers of ferrosilicon. Authorities said they would make it a priority to remove those goods as part of their operation.


Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/world/oil-from-stuck-ship-reaches-beach-523722.html#ixzz1aMa7TI90

Goldie fish
10th October 2011, 09:55
Given the straightend financial times the CIL finds itself in could not some arrangment be reached with the state to use the Granuaile in this role? If shes not suitable, would it take much to convert her for it?

It would take a total redesign. All the equipment on her work deck makes towing very dangerous for all, however the same equipment is vital for her normal role.

Dogwatch
13th October 2011, 01:06
http://cdn2.wn.com/ph/img/a5/06/791417d8dbb0722062a62d6c6d89-grande.jpg
1 day ago
http://storyful.s3.amazonaws.com/production/ci_images/1864654/Screen_shot_2011-10-12_at_09.42.57-large.png

http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss102/OMBugge/Rena1.jpg

http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss102/OMBugge/Rena3.jpg

http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss102/OMBugge/Rena5.jpg

Goldie fish
21st December 2011, 18:59
STX Finland and the Finnish Border Guard sign an agreement on offshore patrol vessel

http://www.skipsrevyen.no/thumbnail.php?file=0001/UVL_final_588063682.jpg&size=article_large


On 21 December 2011, STX Finland Oy and the Finnish Border Guard signed an agreement on construction of a next generation offshore patrol vessel.

The vessel will be built at the STX Rauma ship*yard and delivered to the customer in November 2013. The highly advanced vessel will be 96 metres long and 17 metres wide and will be capable of serving a large variety of functions. Construc*tion of the vessel will bring over 400 man-years of labour to STX Rauma shipyard person*nel and its supplier network. The domestic content of the project is estimated to be 90%.
The main duty of the offshore patrol vessel is to operate in open sea patrol. In addition to ensuring border safety and serving defence purposes, the vessel will be used for other functions such as preven*tion of environmental damage, search and rescue, and different underwater assignments.

The vessel will use the latest technologies and environmentally friendly innovations. She is equipped with machinery using liquefied natural gas (LNG) and marine diesel as fuel. The vessel is capable of operating in Baltic Sea ice conditions. The requirements of energy efficiency and safe operation of the vessel in different acci*dent situations have been taken extensively into account in the design of this environmentally friendly ves*sel.

"This order is very important for STX Finland and the Rauma shipyard. "The building of this ship offers us excellent opportunities for implementation and further development of environmentally friendly technolo*gies," says Timo Suistio, EVP & COO of STX Finland Oy and Director of STX Rauma Shipyard. "Ships built for the Finnish Border Guard and Navy are an important part of STX Finland's continuous develop*ment and introduction of new technologies," Suistio adds.

http://www.skipsrevyen.no/nyheter/136238.html

chrisr
2nd January 2012, 13:44
STX Finland and the Finnish Border Guard sign an agreement on offshore patrol vessel

http://www.skipsrevyen.no/thumbnail.php?file=0001/UVL_final_588063682.jpg&size=article_large


On 21 December 2011, STX Finland Oy and the Finnish Border Guard signed an agreement on construction of a next generation offshore patrol vessel.

The vessel will be built at the STX Rauma ship*yard and delivered to the customer in November 2013. The highly advanced vessel will be 96 metres long and 17 metres wide and will be capable of serving a large variety of functions. Construc*tion of the vessel will bring over 400 man-years of labour to STX Rauma shipyard person*nel and its supplier network. The domestic content of the project is estimated to be 90%.
The main duty of the offshore patrol vessel is to operate in open sea patrol. In addition to ensuring border safety and serving defence purposes, the vessel will be used for other functions such as preven*tion of environmental damage, search and rescue, and different underwater assignments.

The vessel will use the latest technologies and environmentally friendly innovations. She is equipped with machinery using liquefied natural gas (LNG) and marine diesel as fuel. The vessel is capable of operating in Baltic Sea ice conditions. The requirements of energy efficiency and safe operation of the vessel in different acci*dent situations have been taken extensively into account in the design of this environmentally friendly ves*sel.

"This order is very important for STX Finland and the Rauma shipyard. "The building of this ship offers us excellent opportunities for implementation and further development of environmentally friendly technolo*gies," says Timo Suistio, EVP & COO of STX Finland Oy and Director of STX Rauma Shipyard. "Ships built for the Finnish Border Guard and Navy are an important part of STX Finland's continuous develop*ment and introduction of new technologies," Suistio adds.

http://www.skipsrevyen.no/nyheter/136238.html

Off there to see the build next week

Goldie fish
2nd January 2012, 14:06
Off there to see the build next week

The IT reported the Coast Guard were to get new vessels next year.....what "vessels" exactly?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1231/breaking6.html

Tadpole
2nd January 2012, 16:21
Taken in the context of the article where they talk about ' the Coast Guard's aging fleet' I imagine its replacement RIBS.

What I find more interesting is this: 'Mr Varadkar also confirmed that he has given the Office of Public Works the go-ahead to tender for a new Coast Guard Volunteer and Pollution Response Centre in Killybegs, Co Donegal'
Is this a tender to build a new CG Unit / Pollution Response building? If so who operates the pollution response equipment or is this also part of the tender? I thought Sinbad Marine were the pollution response in the Killybegs area.

danno
2nd January 2012, 19:16
The CG have a pollution ship on the Shannon,about the size of a crabber,I think this is its biggest craft and as its policy is not to put in boats where there is already a RNLI unit to avoid duplication of assets/effort unlikely any offshore rescue units are being acquired
Most likely the article is a regurgitation of the press release last Oct on main CG site to buy 7 new ribs @ 1.5M.

jack nastyface
2nd January 2012, 19:35
Given the size of the country, would it not make sense to put the NS vessels,and the Casa maritime patrol aircraft under coastguard control? They could then revert to DOD control in time of war, much the same as the USCG.

DeV
2nd January 2012, 21:19
Or just maintain as is and save an expensive rebranding exercise?

danno
2nd January 2012, 21:42
If anything op control would best lie with the SFPA which accounts for 90% of NS/CASA ops.

Goldie fish
2nd January 2012, 21:58
Given the size of the country, would it not make sense to put the NS vessels,and the Casa maritime patrol aircraft under coastguard control? They could then revert to DOD control in time of war, much the same as the USCG.

Would it not be easier to put the Coast Guard, and the Air Corps maritime assets under the control of the Naval service, who already have almost 70 years expertise in the area, compared to a Coast Guard who as yet have no ships, no aircraft and management made up of former members of the Naval service?

Your suggestion means little more than repainting the grey ships red and white.

jack nastyface
2nd January 2012, 22:04
The CG have a pollution ship on the Shannon,about the size of a crabber,I think this is its biggest craft and as its policy is not to put in boats where there is already a RNLI unit to avoid duplication of assets/effort unlikely any offshore rescue units are being acquired
Most likely the article is a regurgitation of the press release last Oct on main CG site to buy 7 new ribs @ 1.5M.
I think a couple of the fisher tankers that regularly run to the shannon and Galway, are equiped, and contracted by EMSA for polloution control/reaction on the Irish coast.

jack nastyface
2nd January 2012, 22:18
:n:)
Would it not be easier to put the Coast Guard, and the Air Corps maritime assets under the control of the Naval service, who already have almost 70 years expertise in the area, compared to a Coast Guard who as yet have no ships, no aircraft and management made up of former members of the Naval service?

Your suggestion means little more than repainting the grey ships red and white.
That would work too. Just consoladate the operation somehow. Though i could see problems with empires destroyed/built, and various noses put out of joint, and egos bruised. It would take a pragmatism from all concerned. And just dont paint anything.:n:)

DeV
2nd January 2012, 22:49
:n:)
That would work too. Just consoladate the operation somehow. Though i could see problems with empires destroyed/built, and various noses put out of joint, and egos bruised. It would take a pragmatism from all concerned. And just dont paint anything.:n:)

It may consolidate the mission but not the cost.

chrisr
3rd January 2012, 16:56
days of chasing trawlers is gone.


For inshore work, no. Few trawlers operate at more than 12 knots. Once you have powerful RIBs for boarding it matters not.

chrisr
3rd January 2012, 16:58
Times & Indo are calling our new RiB order as 'ships'. Classic error from landlubbers. However the PfG requires us to reconsider Irelands ETV needs and report in 2012.


The IT reported the Coast Guard were to get new vessels next year.....what "vessels" exactly?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1231/breaking6.html

chrisr
3rd January 2012, 17:00
We have national stockpiles in Killybegs, CTB and Dub to provide a higher level of response that is available to a single LA or HM.

Taken in the context of the article where they talk about ' the Coast Guard's aging fleet' I imagine its replacement RIBS.

What I find more interesting is this: 'Mr Varadkar also confirmed that he has given the Office of Public Works the go-ahead to tender for a new Coast Guard Volunteer and Pollution Response Centre in Killybegs, Co Donegal'
Is this a tender to build a new CG Unit / Pollution Response building? If so who operates the pollution response equipment or is this also part of the tender? I thought Sinbad Marine were the pollution response in the Killybegs area.

chrisr
3rd January 2012, 17:04
all the options would work but none of the services mentioned could not escape dramatic change and some pain in the national interest. However I cant see it happening anytime soon. IRCG has some re-organising to do internally anyway and will be staying with DTTAS and not going to Ag.

Dogwatch
4th January 2012, 16:15
We have national stockpiles in Killybegs, CTB and Dub to provide a higher level of response that is available to a single LA or HM.

NS have recently bought some oil pollution gear & booms aswell, for their own use.

Dogwatch
4th January 2012, 16:17
Times & Indo are calling our new RiB order as 'ships'. Classic error from landlubbers. However the PfG requires us to reconsider Irelands ETV needs and report in 2012.
How would CG man this? Bareboat charter with own crew or have a contractor provide everything? How about CG vessel with NS crew?

Dogwatch
4th January 2012, 17:49
Would it not be easier to put the Coast Guard, and the Air Corps maritime assets under the control of the Naval service, who already have almost 70 years expertise in the area, compared to a Coast Guard who as yet have no ships, no aircraft and management made up of former members of the Naval service?

Your suggestion means little more than repainting the grey ships red and white.

Would have to agree with Goldie. They are the only agency in the maritime sphere in Ireland with the support & maintenance infrastructure to maintain a fleet. All other services contract in the maintenance & support. That's where the long term cost is.



It may consolidate the mission but not the cost.As per Dev's comment ref costs, it would of course consolidate costs, you would be merging numerous command & control structures, along with the contracted maintenance by the smallers orgs & the maintenance facility & staff of the dockyard in the NS under one aegis. That is exactly what VFM should be to a country.
Christ, take it a step further, re-instigate the drydock in the basin, & drydock all govt vessels there. Cork Dockyard doesn't look like it has long left!!

Goldie fish
4th January 2012, 18:06
Christ, take it a step further, re-instigate the drydock in the basin, & drydock all govt vessels there. Cork Dockyard doesn't look like it has long left!!

I heard €15m and a PPP could get it operating. Cork dockyard is finished. The cranes are being scrapped one by one, only 2 left now, and neither are near the drydock. The floating dock was scrapped before it sunk on the spot. Since the electrical fire in the paint shop a few years ago, the owners have put no investment into its upgrade. The owners just want to clear the site so Port of Cork will buy it from them for a downstream cargo port.

DeV
4th January 2012, 19:20
Would have to agree with Goldie. They are the only agency in the maritime sphere in Ireland with the support & maintenance infrastructure to maintain a fleet. All other services contract in the maintenance & support. That's where the long term cost is.


As per Dev's comment ref costs, it would of course consolidate costs, you would be merging numerous command & control structures, along with the contracted maintenance by the smallers orgs & the maintenance facility & staff of the dockyard in the NS under one aegis. That is exactly what VFM should be to a country.
Christ, take it a step further, re-instigate the drydock in the basin, & drydock all govt vessels there. Cork Dockyard doesn't look like it has long left!!

Absolutely..... but the same argument says the AC should keep the CASAs.

Dogwatch
4th January 2012, 19:35
Absolutely..... but the same argument says the AC should keep the CASAs.

Very valid point & would contend that the experts there should be in charge of the maint of same. The location & positioning of MPAs is an argument going back a long while, don't think we'll solve it here also.

Laners
4th January 2012, 19:40
How would CG man this? Bareboat charter with own crew or have a contractor provide everything? How about CG vessel with NS crew?

Maybe the same as the two reserch vessels owned by the State, but operated and managed by P&O Marine Services , kinda like the coast guard chopper service .

jack nastyface
4th January 2012, 23:00
Very valid point & would contend that the experts there should be in charge of the maint of same. The location & positioning of MPAs is an argument going back a long while, don't think we'll solve it here also.

Valid points all round. But mine is, the country is really too small for a Navy, but we have the ideal beginnings of a very efficent Coastguard.If everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet.And put in a (dark) blue suit. There was a state of flux in the early 20th century in the UK when the RFC, RNAS, were merging into the RAF and Fleet Air Arm respectivly. There were cases of Flight Sgts RFC, serving for years on the old carrier Argus. As i said before it would take a bit of work, but IMHO it would eventually be for the best. Incidently. You have heard the definition of an 'expert'? EX as in has been, and SPURT, as in under pressure:n:)

Goldie fish
4th January 2012, 23:07
Valid points all round. But mine is, the country is really too small for a Navy, but we have the ideal beginnings of a very efficent Coastguard.If everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet.And put in a (dark) blue suit.

The country is not too small for ONE navy. It is too small for all the navies we have here. Everything Government owned on water should be managed from Haulbowline. The economies of scale should make it a no-brainer. Instead we have the different organisations with often common purposes are all fighting for the small budget that is available each year. That is not to say the people in the organisations are not able to do their job, but the management structures often replicate that in other agencies.

jack nastyface
4th January 2012, 23:19
The country is not too small for ONE navy. It is too small for all the navies we have here. Everything Government owned on water should be managed from Haulbowline. The economies of scale should make it a no-brainer. Instead we have the different organisations with often common purposes are all fighting for the small budget that is available each year. That is not to say the people in the organisations are not able to do their job, but the management structures often replicate that in other agencies.

Thats basically what im saying. call it what you want, base it where you want, but get it all under the one umbrella, and moving forward together.

danno
8th January 2012, 21:14
Times & Indo are calling our new RiB order as 'ships'. Classic error from landlubbers. However the PfG requires us to reconsider Irelands ETV needs and report in 2012.

Quite remarkable given that in the 2011 annual report of the UK Coastguard confirming that it can no longer justify the cost of ETV cover and will save £10M annually by discontinuing it.If the UK which has much more traffic in its waters cannot justify such a service then waste of time reconsidering it here.

Goldie fish
8th January 2012, 21:45
Quite remarkable given that in the 2011 annual report of the UK Coastguard confirming that it can no longer justify the cost of ETV cover and will save £10M annually by discontinuing it.If the UK which has much more traffic in its waters cannot justify such a service then waste of time reconsidering it here.

I think that is short sightedness on the part of the HM Coastguard. Do they not remember the ferry that ran aground on the West Coast, the MSC Napoli? See also in NZ that container ship has now broken in two. Not to mention closer to home,the Cargo ship that sunk before christmas with the loss of most of the crew off wales, the tanker that is waiting to be repaired in Belfast.
What price do you put on maritime safety? How much does the environmental cleanup cost when a car ferry collides with a tanker adrift in the Dover straits?

danno
8th January 2012, 23:43
Fair enough but the MCA have probably done an in depth risk/return study which allowed its decision.It may well be that there are plenty of tugs/anchor crankers in the UK that can be deployed and it may well be that the stricken ship is in a irretreivable situation regardless of the availability of help.The whiff of a Lloyds open contract may well be the best type of support needed.
Over here a full time ETV managed by whoever would not be affordable,the CIL ship is as good as it gets,nothing stopping the NS getting a ETV,arming it and using for general patrols with the towing/salvage contingency capability being there when needed.

Goldie fish
8th January 2012, 23:57
The CIL ship has too much gantry aft to be a useful tug.
As a contingency it is ideal though. A naval ETV, armed for normal duties, with the crew trained to operate it in the towing role, when necessary.

True Blue
9th January 2012, 02:37
With the capability to take a stern anchor from the towing wire aft & deckspace for one/two containers and a LARS skid aft.

Dogwatch
15th January 2012, 23:27
http://cdn2.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/9/1/0/1471019.jpg
Currently alongside Faslane, Scotland.

Algeria
In 2010 Algeria has ordered three tug boats of the Bourbon class which is already in use in the French harbours of Brest and Cherbourg. The ships have been built by STX OSV in Norway and STX Tulcea in Romania. A first vessel El Moundjid was ready for delivery in December 2011, the two others are scheduled for delivery in June and September 2012.
With a bollard pull of 200 tons and a speed of 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph), the Algerian ETVs are an improved version of the French Bourbon class. They will be based in Oran and Skikda. By acquiring these three ships, Algeria has become the leading Mediterranean nation in terms of marine salvage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_tow_vessel

chrisr
16th January 2012, 13:04
40 - 50 tonne BP. Better than nothing and possibly our only option in the first 24 hours.


The Government claim that the Irish Lights vessel Grainuaile can be used as such,but she is not capable of such a heavy Bollard pull. She has the Hull of a Tug,but thats where the similarity ends.

She is as capable of towing as any vessel...Not much use in emergencies though.

Dogwatch
16th January 2012, 17:04
40 - 50 tonne BP. Better than nothing and possibly our only option in the first 24 hours.
Prob is the best, but crews need to practice the techniques. Doe she carrying a towing hawser?


How would CG man this? Bareboat charter with own crew or have a contractor provide everything? How about CG vessel with NS crew?
Any opinion on this option for the CG? CG owned, operated by NS crew?

hptmurphy
16th January 2012, 21:54
A naval ETV, armed for normal duties, with the crew trained to operate it in the towing role, when necessary.

Careful ..you're in danger of making sense, someone might pick up on it

Turkey
16th January 2012, 22:31
Careful ..you're in danger of making sense, someone might pick up on it


Not in this damned country....

Goldie fish
16th January 2012, 22:46
Love the first line Lt Cdr Harkin has to say in this interview.(third clip down)

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0116/glandore.html#audio

Goldie fish
8th March 2012, 13:33
Things that go bump in the night.
My former employer, having a big "oops".
Again.

Cargo ship captain arrested after crash
Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 11:44 AM

http://cache.tcm.ie/media/images/u/UnionMoonStenaFerryCrash.jpg

The captain of a cargo ship has been arrested today after his ship and a passenger ferry were in collision on Belfast Lough.

Passengers on the Stena ferry said they feared disaster when they were initially warned they may have to abandon the ship, before it was confirmed they could safely complete their journey.

The 55-year-old captain of the Union Moon cargo ship was detained as the investigation continued into last night’s incident where both vessels suffered damage, but nobody was injured.

The Stena ferry was travelling from Birkenhead to Belfast when the collision occurred at around 7.45pm at the entrance to the Lough.

In daylight the full scale of the damage to the bow of the Union Moon cargo vessel could be seen.

Cahill Loughran, who was on the ferry with his wife and four children, said: “They said we might have to get into lifeboats, they weren’t sure what the damage was, and then the captain came on and said the damage was above the waterline.

“There was a hole, but it was above the waterline.”

Passengers on the ferry told the BBC they felt a “massive bang”, before emergency alarms went off and the captain said lifeboats were being prepared and passengers should put on life belts.

They praised staff for remaining calm and co-ordinating passengers on board.

Police are assisting the Maritime and Coastguard agency in an investigation into the incident.

There were 51 passengers and 47 crew on board the ferry.

A spokesman said there were no reports of injuries and everyone on the ferry had safely disembarked in Belfast.

Ulster Unionist representative Roy Beggs said: “First and foremost there will be a great deal of relief that this incident did not result in casualties as we could have been dealing with a tragedy and there will also be concern as to how this was able to happen in the first place.

“Many people will rightly be asking just how two modern vessels with state-of-the-art navigation equipment can collide in a major shipping lane.

“This question must be answered in order to maintain public confidence and to ensure that the excellent safety record is maintained.”
http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/cargo-ship-captain-arrested-after-crash-542730.html

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/dynamic/00664/PE7479_22_664712s.jpg

Looking forward to seeing the report of this, but knowing how the company operates, I can guess the cause. A miracle that nobody on either vessel was injured.

spider
8th March 2012, 17:41
Usual story - too much drink.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17296113

Nice file for some Harbour Policeman.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/belfast-stena-ferry-collides-with-vessel-in-lough-16128142.html

Theres a video in this report - not very exciting, but Bangor Lifeboat must have a video camera fitted to the boats A-Frame.

Four crew on board for some reason.

Goldie fish
8th March 2012, 18:17
All lifeboats are fitted with cameras these days, and footage appears on their youtube channel soon after a shout.

danno
8th March 2012, 23:20
Appears to be a rule 15 scenario.No pilot prob on Union Moon.Thankfully no casualties.

Goldie fish
8th March 2012, 23:42
Appears to be a rule 15 scenario.No pilot prob on Union Moon.Thankfully no casualties.

Well, while I was on Union mars Back in 1990, after leaving Arklow, heading south towards the St Georges channel, as an eager cadet, I headed for the Bridge. Found the bridge unoccupied, on autopilot. Nothing new there. Checked the chart. We were in the middle of a Traffic Seperation scheme. Consider it like an invisible dual carriageway for ships.
We were in the Northbound lane, heading south, having just ploughed through the central median....
I popped down the stairs to the (alcoholic)Skippers cabin, him having been on watch when we were leaving Arkla. "sir, just wondering if you are aware we are traversing the seperation scheme?"
Him: "Yup"
me: "will I alter?(course)
him: "anything on the radar?"
me: "Nope"
him: "don't worry about it so- its sunday afternoon, and we aren't in the English channel".
And he went back to tidying his cabin.

While I was with Union Transport(also known as Bromley shipping) 8 crewmen died in shipboard accidents over a 4 month period.
Moon, like Mars, was built 30 years ago, and were not well looked after. Their shippers were either over qualified fishermen working up merchant hours for their Near Continental ticket, unemployable arseholes, or alcoholics. As a Flag of Convenience company, it's crew were alsu usually the cheapest, and poorest qualified. I worked with Cabo Verd crewmen, who were well intentioned, but only one spoke the language spoken by the skipper, 1st officer, engineer or anyone on the other end of the radio. In an emergency, you'll find very few european coastguard radio operators speak portugo-creole.

spider
8th March 2012, 23:46
All lifeboats are fitted with cameras these days, and footage appears on their youtube channel soon after a shout.

Didn't know that Goldie - thanks.

Do you ever regret giving up the sea?

Goldie fish
9th March 2012, 00:05
Didn't know that Goldie - thanks.

Do you ever regret giving up the sea?

Yup. However, losing the skin on one's hands from chemical burns does not make for a long career at sea.
Still tryin to get back out there, tho not with UT obviously.

spider
9th March 2012, 00:19
One of my lifes regrets - that I didn't follow my heart and go to sea.

Instead I got caught up in the good old Norn Iron catch 22...

'Theres a war on you know'.

My generation had a very small worldview.

Fair play to you for going for it - and I hope you get back at it soon.

Goldie fish
9th March 2012, 22:13
Happened to come accross on another website yesterday, four times expert groups have been engaged by the government, since 1996, to report on the need for an ETV. Each time the experts say YES, ASAP. Each time the government say "hmm, can you check again?"

Goldie fish
9th March 2012, 22:19
Things that go bump in the night.
My former employer, having a big "oops".
Again.


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/dynamic/00664/PE7479_22_664712s.jpg

Looking forward to seeing the report of this, but knowing how the company operates, I can guess the cause. A miracle that nobody on either vessel was injured.

As I expected.

Cargo ship crash captain admits drink charge

Friday, March 09, 2012 - 12:57 PM


The captain of a cargo ship has pleaded guilty to being over the alcohol limit after his vessel and a ferry were in collision recently.

Miroslaw Pozniak (aged 55) with an address in Poland, spoke through an interpreter at a magistrates’ court in Bangor, Co Down.

He was captaining the Union Moon travelling from Birkenhead to Belfast on Wednesday when the crash occurred.

Both vessels suffered damage, but no one was injured and the ferry was able to safely complete its journey.

Pozniak's solicitor told the court: "It will be a guilty plea in respect of the matter."

The incident happened at 7.45pm on Wednesday and the ferry passengers said they feared disaster when they were initially warned they may have to abandon ship.

Both vessels suffered damage in the collision at the entrance to Belfast Lough, about a mile and a half from shore.

However no-one was injured and the ferry was able to safely complete its journey.

There were 51 passengers and 47 crew on board the ferry and all safely disembarked at Belfast.

Pozniak appeared in the dock wearing a white shirt, dark jumper and jeans and spoke only to confirm that he understood the charge.

The court heard that his record as a captain was clear and that he had fully co-operated with the police during questioning.

His lawyer requested that he be granted bail and suggested his damaged vessel as an address.

But a police constable objected and told district judge Mark Hamill: “We would not see the ship as a suitable address.”

The court heard that the vessel is to be impounded in dry dock to be repaired.

The judge sought a decision from the prosecution on whether the case will be handled by the Magistrates’ Court or a higher court.

He remanded the defendant in custody to appear again at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court on Monday.

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/cargo-ship-crash-captain-admits-drink-charge-542917.html

Interestingly, this Notice to mariners recently issued is worth reading. Could it be that if the same happened south of the border, our authorities would be powerless to act?
http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=13443&lang=ENG&loc=2659

Helihead
9th March 2012, 22:36
Is this vessel a sister ship of Union Star which was lost many moons ago along with the Penley lifeboat?

Goldie fish
9th March 2012, 22:41
Is this vessel a sister ship of Union Star which was lost many moons ago along with the Penley lifeboat?

One and the same.

DeV
10th March 2012, 01:14
Happened to come accross on another website yesterday, four times expert groups have been engaged by the government, since 1996, to report on the need for an ETV. Each time the experts say YES, ASAP. Each time the government say "hmm, can you check again?"

Ah but sure why do something useful with money when it could be paid to a consultant!

Goldie fish
10th March 2012, 08:04
Ah but sure why do something useful with money when it could be paid to a consultant!

Or four.
The cost of consultations would have the ship built at this stage.

danno
10th March 2012, 21:49
Can somebody list a few instances when a State funded ETV would have made a decisive diff to the outcome of given marine incidents over the last 10 yrs ,there being no other comparable asset available whatsoever.

chrisr
11th March 2012, 12:18
Can somebody list a few instances when a State funded ETV would have made a decisive diff to the outcome of given marine incidents over the last 10 yrs ,there being no other comparable asset available whatsoever.

Kowloon bridge, Yarrowanga, recent tanker place of refuge request off Donegal (dodged the bullit there), and two cargo incidents off Kerry. All close shaves for a major incident. You can drive without a seatbelt all your life and never have an accident; or even have an accident and the wearing of the belt would have made no difference. But would you drive without a seatbelt???

danno
11th March 2012, 21:46
K B and the Y happened over 20 yrs ago.Certainly there have been close shaves since but did the lack of a state funded ETV worsen the scenarios concerned.In most instances the persons concerned either fend for themselves or receive the critical assistance from non state assets.

Goldie fish
11th March 2012, 22:59
K B and the Y happened over 20 yrs ago.Certainly there have been close shaves since but did the lack of a state funded ETV worsen the scenarios concerned.In most instances the persons concerned either fend for themselves or receive the critical assistance from non state assets.

Or get towed by unsuitable merchant or naval vessels, not equipped to combat pollution. We have been Lucky, pure and simple. There have been incidents in neighbouring waters that could easily have been in ours, were the wind blowing another way. Is it better to wait till another Torrey Canyon before we say "you know, maybe an ETV is a good idea?" Or do we learn from others?

danno
11th March 2012, 23:29
The T.C had run aground under its own steam,all the ETVs possible to muster would n ot have mattered.
An ETV is not a bad thing in its own right,the reality is that we cannot afford a stand alone one on station waiting for a supertanker to run aground off our coast.Integrating a ETv into the NS flotilla for general patrolling may poss represent the best compromise.

Goldie fish
12th March 2012, 00:02
The T.C had run aground under its own steam,all the ETVs possible to muster would n ot have mattered.
An ETV is not a bad thing in its own right,the reality is that we cannot afford a stand alone one on station waiting for a supertanker to run aground off our coast.Integrating a ETv into the NS flotilla for general patrolling may poss represent the best compromise.

Definitely. I have always suggested that a CPV replacement would be an EPV, which could continue doing the Inshore work the CPVs do, when not required for towage. The UK model, of a Privately owned ETV on standby at strategic locations, did not prove to be a cost effective option.

Goldie fish
12th March 2012, 11:31
Found this:
www.transport.ie/upload/general/10140-0.doc




Emergency Towing Vessel, (ETV)Costs
For a contract for ETV services to meet value for money, a minimum five-year contract period would be required. For a single ETV contract, costs would be in the region of €3.5m p.a. It may be feasible to share costs under a joint agreement with the UK.

Review of Position
At October, 2006, IRCG is reviewing its position on the question of provision of an ETV facility and will report to senior management in the Department, (of Transport, since 01 Jan., 2006).

Background In 1998, the then Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources decided that the need for ETV capacity to deal with major threats to the Irish coast having regard to the risk of major oil pollution as a result of accidents involving oil tankers or other large vessels should be assessed. The actual assessment carried out the risk of such pollution, ascertained the means by which Ireland might obtain an ETV capacity, the costs involved and the means of financing.

Irish marine and coastal resources, upon which regional economies and communities are largely dependent, are at risk of major (and possibly catastrophic) damage in the event of a major pollution incident.

Study by Nautical Enterprise Centre In 1999, the Department commissioned a study, on the need for an Irish Emergency Towing Vessel, which was published. The Study recommended that:
•an ETV should be deployed to allow Ireland to proactively protect its coastal and marine resources and processes from the consequences of major oil pollution and vessel strandings;
•the Marine Safety Information Services should be extended to incorporate the functions of a Vessel Traffic Management Information Service (VTMIS) as a means of monitoring vessel movements around the coast; and,
•the value of the Irish marine and coastal resource is such that all possible steps must be taken to protect the livelihoods of local people and communities, local unique and special ecosystems and environments from the effects of a major pollution incident, it being estimated that 70% of Europe’s tanker trade passes within 200 miles of Ireland’s South Coast.

In May, 2000, Government:
•accepted in principle the findings of the Study;
•agreed that the Department consult with certain other Departments to assess and identify the most cost effective means by which Ireland would acquire an ETV service and related matters; and,
•agreed that negotiations commence with the UK on the possible sharing of an ETV for the North Channel and the Irish Sea.


Various options have been considered for the acquisition of an ETV, including a Public Private Partnership and a leasing agreement. However, the purchase or leasing of an ETV has not to date proceeded (Jan., 2008), due to, among other issues, budgetary constraints.

spider
12th March 2012, 13:15
The Captain involved in the Ferry incident has had his case passed to the Crown (Higher) Court.

So its looking like he could do time for this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17340481

danno
12th March 2012, 23:04
Are marine captains screened for alcohol regularly as air pass pilots are.

Goldie fish
12th March 2012, 23:32
Are marine captains screened for alcohol regularly as air pass pilots are.

I think Dept of Marine notice 6 of 2012 answers that question.

Limits for blood alcohol level or alcohol in the breath have not yet been implemented in Irish legislation

danno
12th March 2012, 23:39
Thats for where their is n alleged offence etc,what I an referring to is the renewal of ticket whereby the candidates are blood sampled to see if they have been abusing alcohol by reference to raised level of blood enzymes indicitive of high alcohol intake,ie going off the sauce for a few days before test will not suffice to suppress the accumulated evidence.This is std op for pilots.

danno
14th March 2012, 22:02
The
According to the Irish Times website, she dragged her anchor in heavy seas early this morning. Presumably she was waiting for daylight and/or high tide, before entering the port to pick up the ferries.

The mcib report on the Pantanal is up on the mcib site, www.mcib.ie . Incident started and finished very quickly,unlikely the availability of a ETV would have made any diff.

Goldie fish
14th March 2012, 22:53
The

The mcib report on the Pantanal is up on the mcib site, www.mcib.ie . Incident started and finished very quickly,unlikely the availability of a ETV would have made any diff.

That, and what happpened with those boats after is a very very dodgy story, in my opinion.

spider
28th March 2012, 23:42
Another incident...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-17534623

chrisr
5th April 2012, 12:44
Not having emergency rough weather bollard pull capacity in a state is like driving without a seat belt on.

You may never crash!

If you do crash it might only be a fender bender!

If you have a bad crash a seat belt might have made no difference as you either walk away fine or you are dead anyway!

However....if you have that bad crash and a seat belt would have made the difference was wearing it all those years a waste of time and expense? your spouse may get lots of compo but be honest is that what you would want at that point?

And yes - ETV's should be patrol vessels carrying out coast guarding activities along you high risk axises.

Dogwatch
5th April 2012, 22:13
Not having emergency rough weather bollard pull capacity in a state is like driving without a seat belt on.

You may never crash!

If you do crash it might only be a fender bender!

If you have a bad crash a seat belt might have made no difference as you either walk away fine or you are dead anyway!

However....if you have that bad crash and a seat belt would have made the difference was wearing it all those years a waste of time and expense? your spouse may get lots of compo but be honest is that what you would want at that point?

And yes - ETV's should be patrol vessels carrying out coast guarding activities along you high risk axises.

Who would man it Chrisr?

CG, civilian contract crew, NS? Or are there other options?

chrisr
8th April 2012, 17:25
Who would man it Chrisr?

CG, civilian contract crew, NS? Or are there other options?

I would think a mixed crew. you need a towage and salvage master and experience deckhands in these areas so rent in. remainder of crew should be NS for its coastal state enforcement role

danno
8th April 2012, 17:37
Wouild something like the Granuaile with a NS detatchment fit this model,the USCG undertakes the role of Irish Lights,

Goldie fish
8th April 2012, 22:05
The USCG also undertakes the role of the RNLI, Port State control, Naval Service, Customs, Garda Water unit etc etc...

danno
9th April 2012, 00:53
"port state control"?

Goldie fish
9th April 2012, 09:57
Paris MOU.

danno
9th April 2012, 10:14
As things stand here,the NS performs all of the tasks listed by GF in some shape or form but does not do navigation safety measures,the CG here do none of the above directly save for a few coastal ribs and heli ops.The CG is still largely a coordination op .Must be poss only CG to have no seagoing ships ever under its command.

chrisr
10th April 2012, 18:56
Must get you to read up on Coast Guard Functions Danno. You think of CGs as structures when in fact you need to think of them as functional activities i.e.
i. maritime safety, including vessel traffic management;
ii. maritime security;
iii. maritime customs activities;
iv. the prevention and suppression of trafficking and smuggling and connected maritime law enforcement;
v. maritime border control;
vi. maritime surveillance;
vii. maritime environmental protection and response;
viii. search and rescue;
ix. accident and disaster response;
x. fisheries control; and
xi. activities related to the above Coast Guard Functions.

danno
10th April 2012, 22:00
Fair enough,we have a structure we have functions but little or no direct CG surface assets to deal with the above.Other State marine agencies all have assets eg NS,Customs,Garda,Fishery Board,Irish Lights,Port ops,Mar inst etc and all do/can deal with tasks relating to the above,is there any need for CG surface assets.

Laners
10th April 2012, 23:03
I dought if you could consider Irish Lights and it's assets as a State Body.

Goldie fish
11th April 2012, 05:28
I dought if you could consider Irish Lights and it's assets as a State Body.

from cil.ie

The cost of the Service to mariners is met from the General Lighthouse Fund which derives its income mainly from light dues that are charged on commercial shipping calling at UK and Irish ports. The Irish Government contributes to the Fund under the terms of an agreed formula.
State funded?

danno
11th April 2012, 14:39
Apologies to all for going off on a tangent about CG Irish light etc,it is fair to say all agree that an ETV is needed to protect the seas,how is this done,options include


1. A dedicated red/white CG unit leased in ala the CHC heli scheme.
2.A MOU with Irish Lights and other State agencies to make existing tugs etc available.
3.A dedicated NS etv which is primarily a pv.

As things stand ,cost wise.option 2 appears to be the only show in town,its a bit like wanting to have a chauffer driven car at your call 24/7 but you can only afford a hackney.

chrisr
11th April 2012, 18:23
We have that in play already. however the bollard capacity on ILV is very small so its a fingers crossed and wish for good luck and timing. Option 3 is the correct choice

Goldie fish
14th April 2012, 14:05
You need a minimum of 250T to be of any practical use. I think Grainuaile struggles to reach a notional 100T

Tadpole
14th April 2012, 17:24
Just seen this vessel on AIS off the NW coast: http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=235068802

Looks very similar in many ways to the ILV but in the colours of the ex Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service and operated by Serco.

Goldie fish
14th April 2012, 20:32
You must not have seen the ILV in a while, that is a typical support vessel. The ILV has very little, if any useful open deck space, aft.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2697/4135911359_340624708a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/40109241@N03/4135911359/)
Granuaile (http://www.flickr.com/photos/40109241@N03/4135911359/) by Sea Land & Sky (http://www.flickr.com/people/40109241@N03/), on Flickr

Dogwatch
14th April 2012, 22:39
Just seen this vessel on AIS off the NW coast: http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=235068802

Looks very similar in many ways to the ILV but in the colours of the ex Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service and operated by Serco.

Vessel Info
Name
SD Victoria
Class
Damen World Wide Support Vessel
Date Accepted
25th May 2010
Builder
Damen Shipyards, Gorinchem
Country of Build
Romania
Basic Duties
Worldwide training operations of military personnel, transportation of personnel and military equipment and diving
support operations.

http://www.damen.nl/news/deliveries/2010/06/~/media/nl/Images/News/Deliveries/2010%202011/Damen%20Worldwide%20Support%20Ship%208316_062010.a shx?mh=393&mw=790
SD Marine Services in the UK took delivery of 'SD Victoria' on June 8, 2010. At 83 m long with a 16 m beam, 'SD Victoria' was the largest vessel delivered to SD Marine Services within the 'FPMS' contract. The vessel will be used for world wide training operations for military personnel including Special Forces, transportation of personnel and military equipment and for diving suppot operations.
http://www.damen.nl/news/deliveries/2010/06/world-wide-support-ship

Designed as an SOF support & training ship
Link to pics with SOF VSVs embarked on the aft deck.
http://www.fotoalfi.com/skip/sd-victoria.html

chrisr
24th April 2012, 19:15
40 ton


200t BP will handle most things


You need a minimum of 250T to be of any practical use. I think Grainuaile struggles to reach a notional 100T

Dogwatch
24th April 2012, 21:10
40 ton


200t BP will handle most things

Does the ILV carry a towing hawser of any description? Haven't heard of this functionality of hers ever being exercised? Would be very good to see her towing.

spider
25th May 2012, 18:29
This incident was discussed in this thread a while back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18202962

Jail...but only seven months.

danno
27th May 2012, 00:43
This incident was discussed in this thread a while back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18202962

Jail...but only seven months.

Also consider careers/livlehood equally kaput.

Goldie fish
31st May 2012, 13:56
The Captain involved in the Ferry incident has had his case passed to the Crown (Higher) Court.

So its looking like he could do time for this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17340481

Ship's captain had been drinking, court told
Thursday, May 31, 2012 - 12:44 PM



The captain of a ship which collided with a passenger ferry causing thousands of pounds worth of damage had drunk up to seven bottles of beer, a court in the North heard today.

Miroslaw Pozniak (aged 55) admitted crashing his cargo boat while three times over the alcohol limit but said it was because of news of his wife's ill health, his defence barrister at Downpatrick Crown Court said.

He could face up to two years in prison.

Married father-of-two Pozniak was at the helm on March 7 when he crashed into a ferry with 100 passengers and crew on board in Belfast Lough after ignoring warnings from coastguards. He had no look out, despite the darkness.

Defence barrister Sean Doran said: "There is simply no way back from this.

"His career at sea is finished."

The court heard that the Maritime and Coastal Agency had brought its own charges against the Polish man.

They included failing to keep a proper look out, failing to navigate, causing serious damage to his own ship the Union Moon as well as another vessel, the Stena Feronia.

He pleaded guilty to those charges, but he denied he failed to follow the safety rules of his former employers, along with proper watch-keeping arrangements.

The latter two charges will remain on the books and will not be proceeded with.

Mr Doran said the captain had been drinking six or seven bottles of beer in his cabin and that this was most uncharacteristic of him.

This followed a "difficult" conversation with his wife in Poland when he learned that her previous pattern of improvement had changed.

Judge David Smyth QC will pass sentence this afternoon.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ships-captain-had-been-drinking-court-told-553651.html

Goldie fish
31st May 2012, 16:50
Captain jailed for one year after ferry crash
Thursday, May 31, 2012 - 02:38 PM



The captain of a ship which collided with a passenger ferry in the North, causing more than £1m (€1.25m) of damage, has today been jailed for a year.

Miroslaw Pozniak (aged 55) admitted crashing his cargo boat while three times over the alcohol limit but said it was because of news of his wife's ill-health, his defence barrister told Downpatrick Crown Court.

The married father-of-two was at the helm on March 7 when he crashed into a ferry with 100 passengers and crew on board in Belfast Lough after ignoring warnings from coastguards. He had no look-out despite the darkness.

Judge David Smyth QC told Pozniak: "This sentence is to make it clear that the following of the regulations in relation to alcohol and also in relation to the charting and proper adherence to accepted routes is of vital importance.

"The ending of your 30-year career and the sentence effectively demonstrate that."

The defendant dropped his head slightly as sentence was passed.

Pozniak's defence barrister, Sean Doran, said the captain had been drinking six or seven bottles of beer in his cabin and this was most uncharacteristic of him.

It had followed a “difficult” conversation with his wife in Poland when he learned that her seeming health improvement had changed and she had suffered a relapse.

This had been Pozniak’s second exit from the Port of Belfast. The collision happened as his boat, the Union Moon, was leaving Belfast Lough and the Stena Feronia was entering from Birkenhead, near Liverpool.

The judge said the course was clear that the Union Moon should veer away by about 20 degrees but it did not. This caused concern at Belfast harbour control, which reminded Pozniak of the route and alerted the Master of the Stena Feronia.

About six minutes before the collision, the Stena Feronia attempted a manoeuvre which was designed to reduce the impact but it was too late to prevent a collision.

The prow of the Union Moon struck the car deck of the Stena Feronia.

The judge said: “If the route that should have been followed had been followed by the Union Moon this collision would not have occurred.

“The collision occurred because the proper course was not followed and the responsibility was entirely that of Captain Pozniak.”

There was no injury or loss of life and the Lough was quiet.

The court heard that the Maritime and Coastal Agency had brought its own charges against the Pole.

They included failing to keep a proper look-out, failing to navigate, and causing serious damage to his own ship as well as another vessel.

He pleaded guilty to those charges, but denied that he failed to follow the safety rules of his former employers, along with proper watch-keeping arrangements.

The latter two charges will remain “on the books” and will not be proceeded with.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/captain-jailed-for-one-year-after-ferry-crash-553671.html

Goldie fish
28th June 2012, 00:59
Currently on Etenders.


Specification and Requirements of the RFT for a Study on the following for the Irish Coast Guard 2012


1. Examine the possibilities that may exist for the provision of an operational Emergency Towing Vessel (ETV) or enhanced capacity for Ireland

2. Review Ireland’s current capabilities for casualty intervention, traffic awareness and pollution prevention, preparedness and response


1. Examine the possibilities on the provision of an ETV for Ireland with BP 200, including the purchase or lease price, ongoing running, oversight and maintenance costs and potential funding arrangements. The Eagle Lyon Pope Report of 2008 can be used as a basis for the Study*. Report required by 28th September 2012.

In considering an ETV specific attention should be given to:

a) Arrangements in other European countries that are Atlantic, North Sea or Baltic Sea facing. The report should consider the practical experience of these countries in their use of ETV’s in casualty intervention and pollution and casualty response;

b) The availability, positioning and capability of existing and proposed towing vessels or other vessels periodically or habitually in Irish waters to assist vessels in distress;

c) The availability, in emergencies, of expert salvage crews for the existing towage vessels or as casualty advice;

d) Assess the future requirement for, the value and impact of secondary duties, and the potential for shared roles, for example: fishery protection, vessel traffic management, customs, navigation safety, disaster response, booming, oil recovery and dispersants, SAR, Fire Fighting, commercial salvage, seabed mapping and marine resource investigation and Civil Hydrography activities. Assess the various additional roles for the ETV’s and the implications upon funding and costs, bearing in mind the need for prompt action when required under primary role.

e) Engage with potential third parties identified to access their requirements and implications upon funding.

f) Possible role for an ETV in light of increased oil/gas exploration and exploitation in the Irish exploration region.

g) Any forthcoming or proposed International Maritime Organization or European Commission requirements for ETV provision that will or may affect Ireland over the next 10 to 15 years - with the detailed implications fully explained.

h) Assess the range of costs and the various conditions for providing ETV capacity (private/public, new. Second-hand, conversions, equipment fit, daily running costs, outright purchase, long/medium term charter, Naval Service utility vessel, etc.) and any other strategies identified to improve Coast Guard capacity.

i) Assess the possibility of co-operation with other States for mutual assistance or joint projects including a realistic appraisal of possible UK/Irish joint share in an ETV.


2. Review Ireland’s current capabilities for traffic management, casualty intervention, pollution prevention, preparedness and response by updating the Eagle Lyon Pope Report of 2008* in this regard with particular reference to traffic volumes and a detailed risk and cost benefit analysis. The requirements of the 2008 Study still apply and are set out below. Also some additional requirements will apply that relate to developments in the interim and are included at the end. Report required 28th September 2012.

a) Carry out a full risk assessment/forecast of shipping accident and pollution potential (including danger and key areas) in the Irish EEZ by arriving and passing shipping.

b) Consider current and future traffic movements considering the cargo and bunker profiles and attendant risks and changes in vessel design, size and cargo capacity. This would include HNS, Container, LNG etc.

c) Consider the most up-to date information on the international trend in shipping casualties.

d) Consider powers under existing legislation in relation to dispersants and clean-up and waste disposal operations and highlight any potential deficiencies and possible remedies.

e) Assess the implications of significant clean-up costs together with the long-term environmental, economic and social costs associated with a major incident in producing a detailed cost/benefit analysis of the options proposed.


Having regard to the risks identified above to:

f) Evaluate the current measures in place to mitigate the risks, including the Coast Guard’s vessel management, casualty intervention and response structure, and capacity indicating any changes needed to meet international commitments and continuing national requirements for year round ship casualty intervention and environmental protection cover of the Irish Exclusive Economic Zone. (This should take account primarily of national measures but also consider support provided by EMSA and others)

g) Evaluate Irish position by reference to best international practice, with particular reference to EU and Bonn Agreement States.

h) Produce a Report that identifies, and ranks on a value for money basis, additional primary or secondary measures that should be put in place nationally.

The following additional requirements will also apply;

a) The removal of the United Kingdom’s chain of Emergency Towing Vessels
b) The potential effect of the opening of the Northeast trade route all year round over the next 20 years
c) The increase in offshore energy exploration and production including wave energy
d) Increased wave height in the northeast Atlantic
e) Lessons learnt from the Deepwater Horizon incident in the USA
f) The National Maritime Surveillance project chaired by this Department
g) The implementation of SI 573/2010 concerning the European Communities (Vessel Traffic Monitoring and Information System) Regulations 2010 including Places of Refuge & the EU Directive 2002/59 on VTMIS
h) The creation of a National Maritime Operations Centre (NMOC)
i) Changes in passing shipping traffic
j) Government Value for Money review (Fishers Report)*
k) Taking into account work completed or underway as a result of the ELP
Report 2008*
11) Draft OECD Report 2010 (Ireland’s Environmental Review)



*These Reports can be obtained from the Coast Guard subject to confidentiality requirements being forthcoming from interested tenderers.


So DoT are seeking someone to tell them that we need ETV cover, and how best to go about it.....
Again.

danno
28th June 2012, 01:05
Currently on Etenders.



So DoT are seeking someone to tell them that we need ETV cover, and how best to go about it.....
Again. Sounds like another PCW report scenario.

Goldie fish
19th July 2012, 02:49
Another serious maritime incident ongoing in the Atlantic.
Container Ship MSC Flaminia was abandoned after one of its containers went on fire earlier this week. One crew member died from injuries received while trying to fight the fire, another is unaccounted for and several more are injured The Cargo is still burning, but the flames have not spread to the Accom block as yet. But the ship is still adrift. Where it, and its cargo end up remains to be seen, until at least the on scene firefighting tugs Fairmount expidition and Anglian Sovereign (both Anchor Crankers) have managed to put the fire out, stabilise the ship and get her under tow.
http://www.towingline.com/archives/1466?utm_campaign=&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter
http://www.welt.de/img/bildergalerien/crop108324179/6738726582-ci3x2l-w620/Havariertes-deutsches-Containerschiff-MSC-Flaminia-.jpg

Clacks
12th August 2012, 17:16
Everyone knows Ireland needs at least one vessel in our southern and western approaches with a decent bollard pull. problem is its a very expensive 'air bag' which wont be santioned by Finance until AFTER the event.

danno
12th August 2012, 21:49
Everyone knows Ireland needs at least one vessel in our southern and western approaches with a decent bollard pull. problem is its a very expensive 'air bag' which wont be santioned by Finance until AFTER the event.

What sort of overall structure/set up would be required to have a unit ready to deploy 24/7/365.

Clacks
13th August 2012, 09:05
purchased or leased?

danno
13th August 2012, 21:21
purchased or leased?

Whichever is best value.

danno
13th August 2012, 21:26
[QUOTE=Goldie fish;375367]Another serious maritime incident ongoing in the Atlantic.
Container Ship MSC Flaminia was abandoned after one of its containers went on fire earlier this week. One crew member died from injuries received while trying to fight the fire, another is unaccounted for and several more are injured The Cargo is still burning, but the flames have not spread to the Accom block as yet. But the ship is still adrift. Where it, and its cargo end up remains to be seen, until at least the on scene firefighting tugs Fairmount expidition and Anglian Sovereign (both Anchor Crankers) have managed to put the fire out, stabilise the ship and get her under tow.

The ship is still under tow from 3 tugs in waters off Brest,no coastal state will let her in.

She is reputed to be carrying containers of rare classic cars such as Mustangs etc.

Clacks
13th August 2012, 23:39
it depends on the use of the vessel. If its going to be run as a multi-purpose vessel then it should be run by the Coast Guard with ship riders from the navy. If the navy run it they will hog the use of it for world domination and over man the vessel as always. Buy or lease depends on the governments commitment long term. so I imagine lease

Clacks
13th August 2012, 23:40
navy to be consulted by the consultants iaw the press notice!!!!

hptmurphy
15th August 2012, 01:02
If the navy run it they will hog the use of it for world domination and over man the vessel as alway

Ok put two boarding parties in the water and have to provide cover from the base ship......could end up with up to half your crew carrying out independent operations.

Finger puppets and UAVs can't do multiple boardings........answers on a post card please!

Flintstone
15th August 2012, 17:14
it depends on the use of the vessel. If its going to be run as a multi-purpose vessel then it should be run by the Coast Guard with ship riders from the navy. If the navy run it they will hog the use of it for world domination and over man the vessel as always. Buy or lease depends on the governments commitment long term. so I imagine lease

You might care to back up that outlandish statement in the middle of your post.

Flintstone
15th August 2012, 17:17
navy to be consulted by the consultants iaw the press notice!!!!

Hardly surprising. The navy comprises the largest group of professional mariners from the greatest number of disciplines in the State. Not to consult them would be very negligent.