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Spook
13th April 2003, 16:41
Just reading about Austria's new Herc's.They are ex RAF refurbished by marshall's in U.K.They cost appox E10m for 3 and will be used for EU RRf and humanitarian missions.They should be good for 20 years.This would seem to be a great example to follow,the need is there for an irish airlift capability EU /Un missions.There are a number still stored with marshall's 10+, they would take the transport mission from the casa's.
Just an idea lad's
Comment's please

Silver
13th April 2003, 16:52
€10 million for 3 ?

Sounds like a bargain to me !
I agree, would be an ideal solution for our transport needs.
Put's Bertie's €60million jet in the shade !

EagleEye
13th April 2003, 17:07
Could we not buy 4 and convert one to VIP standard or would this possible with this type of Aircraft..

Come-quickly
13th April 2003, 17:48
We'd need to have a reserve aircraft that means to have one or at best two inb the air one would have to be on the ground at any time for maintenance, beside a VIP herc makes about as much sense as being a neutral country with no self defence capacity

yooklid
13th April 2003, 18:36
Hmmm... could we buy someone else's surplus and have them refitted to our own standard?

Turkey
13th April 2003, 19:20
Converting a C-130 for VIP use, sounds a bit like the bride arriving at the wedding on the back of a tractor.
The truth is that, in reality, we have no use for a co-called VIP aircraft in the Air Corps, by any stretch of the imagination, however we do have need of an aircraft which can be used for what I would call 'speical requirments', as Paul G's example from a while back, the flight of Brian Keenan from leb'.
I see no reason why some kind of a convertion kit can't be made up for this requirment, also for those hospital trips to the UK, and back again, one advantage the C-130 has over fancy ex' jets is it has loads of room.
Also there is the huge ramp, which among other things is ideal for parachute operations, or dropping off political whales like Harney, no parachute required.:D

John
14th April 2003, 10:55
You could get a containerised accomodation system and load it onto the plane as required.

Thorpe
15th April 2003, 16:45
A vip c130would be ideal for Mary Harney:D :D .
I could see nothing relly wrong with surplus c130s for the air corps as long as they are structurally sound.

Gunner Al
15th April 2003, 17:39
i think its a great idea!!

its about time they started spending their money wisely - we need a compromise between price and technology.

paul g
15th April 2003, 17:57
Well we also have a president and commander in chief, do we as a nation expect our head of state to fly Ryanair, and only go on state visits on a tuesday? more important is the need for an air ambulance capable of flying patients to the U.K, sick children often require threatment that is only AVAILABLE IN CENTRES OF EXCELLENCE like great ormond street in london. therefore there is a need for a Beechcraft replacement,distinct from any new transports for service overseas, personally buying a beechcraft replacement is fine, its replacing the Gulfstream is another matter . .

Turkey
15th April 2003, 19:49
Agreed, Paul, totlly agreed, would a Cessana Caravan fit this role? think one was in Bal' monday.Someone is checking for me.

Bud Fox
16th April 2003, 10:14
Pass this on to Bertie...i was gona tell him to call Ken (see bottom) & buy the two C130's on finance... but then I saw this. Me thinks that Shannon is worth at least 4 C130's & a few old jets (F16's)...ahh sure just give us everthing you got!! well even take a some of dem ships...


http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/general/afr-arms.htm

The article says "Since 1996, the US has been providing, on a cost-free basis, large quantities of secondhand surplus weapons from its army, navy and air force inventories. But most of the give-aways have to be refurbished, serviced and maintained by the cash-strapped countries"

"The largest number of giveaways was to Botswana, one of the few African nations whose economy is on the upswing. The US equipment included three C-130 transport planes, 261 towed howitzers, and 100,000 rounds of 20 mm ammunition. Additionally, Botswana also purchased 18 secondhand US-made F-5 fighter planes (some of the them transferred from Canada with US permission) at a total cost of some 28 million dollars".

The US also gave away...

4 Lockheed C-130 military transports to Ethiopia
10 Bell helicopters to Ghana.
2 C-130 transports to Zimbabwe, along with seven torpedo launch control panels and 88,000 rounds of 40 mm ammunition

**

LOCKHEED HERCULES C-130 AIRCRAFT 20,357.8 Hrs TT
These were former U.S. Airforce Weather Planes. They have low hours, good maintenence, and have been upgraded. They have had airframe heavy checks, they are wing compliant, and have instrument upgrades. These are Rare
aircraft, seldom on the market and must be sold to qualified buyers only.
Please call for full 19 page specifications proposal.
We are currently offering (2) of these aircraft for sale.

.: Proline Sales
KEN MICHAELIS
7339 NW 32nd Ave
33142 - Miami
Florida
USA
Phone : 954434 2294 office 954 274 5401 cell

E-Mail : Prolinemarketing@aol.com
Webpage : http://www.PROLINESALES.net

Come-quickly
16th April 2003, 10:51
Don't they need a twin engined replacement to act as a twin trainer for the CASA's?

Silver
16th April 2003, 18:24
They probably expect pilots to be trained on one of the CASA's !


Ah, sure, a jet for Bertie (Beech replacment) is more important then training pilots don't you know :rolleyes:

John P Hannon
15th May 2003, 08:04
I think the C130 will be here when the Lord returns,we had "A" and "E" models,the "A" models lasted twice the time they were supposed to and the "E" kept flying for more than double their original planned time.The R.A.A.F has more modern C130s now and they are a fantastic,we have used them for sea rescues as in a search plane and then drop rafts and supplies etc.One was once used to chase a plane full of drugs so the pilot reckoned his C130 was an 'interceptor'.
Hanno

Silver
15th May 2003, 18:53
The White Paper on Defence suggested the purchase of a CASA C-235 as the Beechcraft replacement.

Look's like Bertie has other ideas - as in a new jet for himself and his cronies !

hptmurphy
27th May 2005, 17:36
The RAF is currently negotiating the sale or lease of the last of the short body Hercules. the aircraft 5,in total, are to be replaced by the Globemaster 111.

This and the reduction of the jaguar numbers by two squadrons....plus the phasing out of the gazelle in Royal Navy and Royal Marines service is another significant blow to the UKs ability to operate in anything other than minor conflicts.

How about our shower getting off the fence and having alook at some of the C 130 Hercules. If nothing else they'd be able to cope with mary harney's ever increasing girth.

Ruledbyjames
27th May 2005, 22:00
With a defence budget of 674 million euro we would be f*** wits to not jump for a bargain like that. 3 for 10m!! Jesus thats within our budget. If they dont go for it I say we stage a coup. :biggrin:

yooklid
28th May 2005, 01:32
I am curious. Could the DOD just go out and snap them up? Or would they have to go through some horrible tender process??

Rooster
28th May 2005, 17:29
The US also gave away...

4 Lockheed C-130 military transports to Ethiopia
10 Bell helicopters to Ghana.
2 C-130 transports to Zimbabwe, along with seven torpedo launch control panels and 88,000 rounds of 40 mm ammunition

I thought that Zim was a landlocked country, why would they need or want ''torpedo launch control panels''??

pym
29th May 2005, 16:18
Yooklid I think I remember reading on this board that the government doesnt need to go through a tender process on matters of Defence if it doesnt want to.

I think the fact that they would be bought secondhand from a nation would also remove any need for a tender, i.e. it'd be similar to when we got the AA guns of the Dutch a few years back.

Old Redeye
30th May 2005, 00:36
Yes, one or two Hercs similar to those obtained by Austria would be an excellent solution to the IAC's airlift requirement - the #2 priority after tactical support helicopters. However, I submit the quoted price of three for 10M Euro is fanciful - maybe 10M apeice before refurbishment by Marshalls. I seem to recall a delivered price of around US$20M each - you can do the conversion. However Marshalls is probably the best shop Herc shop in world, though they reportedly have no more old Hercs left - the RNLAF is getting th last one in good enough condition to refurbish. To get a Herc equal to the Austrians or the South Africans before them means a refurbishment including a Thales Topdeck two-person glass cockpit, rebuilt wing boxes, zero timed engines and props, all new wiring, hydraulics, cargo handling equipment, APU, etc. This will realistically produce a Herc with another 10-15 years of useful life. But the fact is we're still talking about a significant maintenance burden for what are still very old airplanes without modern technology, including diagnostics and long time between maintenance systems. Old USAF E models such as the the former WC-130E's cited in the link may be an option, but bear in mind the entire E model fleet is beyind their sell-by with serious, probably terminal age problems, principally in the wing spars, but throughoutr the airframe. I doubt if any E's will still be flying in a few years. That's why the USAF will now go ahead with 42+ C-13J's, an excellent aircraft now well byind any early terthing problems, but at about US$55M each for a J-30. Compare that to US$25M each for a new CASA C-295, also an excellent platform. In the end it;s all a crapshoot as we say in the states - finding the blance between purchase cost (low for older 130's and C-295, high for 130J), operting cost (high for older 130 models - low for C-295), and required range and payload capabilites (great for 130J-30, OK for older 130's and not so good for C-295).

Finally, the best replacement for the B200 is another B200. A low time used B200, built since 2000 can be had for US$2M and will serve the IAC's needs for another 15 years at least - multi-engine training, utility, MATS back-up, medical xfer, etc. Caravan is a great airplane but lacks the requisite performance to serve properly in any fo the required roles.

Cheers

Old Redeye
30th May 2005, 00:46
PS. Excuse me, but I forget to mention in my last - don't be taken in by the junk the US gives away because it is junk you would not want to in the IAC. The 130's are "as is" and will probably seldom fly for their new owners without a major refurbishment and continuous maitnenance efforts, and coem with cvery high operating costs. There is no free lunch.