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John
13th October 2005, 08:56
The Irish Times

Ireland Thu, Oct 13, 05

Naval Service denies its patrols prefer to pursue Irish vessels
By Joe Humphreys

The Naval Service has denied claims it is unfairly targeting Irish fishermen in sea patrols because they are "easier to catch" than foreign-registered vessels.

Commodore Frank Lynch, Naval Service commanding flag officer, told an Oireachtas committee yesterday that it performed its sea fishery protection role "without fear or favour or affection".

He was responding to suggestions from some members of the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources that Irish fishermen were being victimised in policing operations.

Denis O'Donovan TD (FF) said fishermen felt they were "soft targets", while Senator Brendan Kenneally (FF) argued the Naval Service should concentrate on "chasing bigger boats" rather than boarding small vessels, which could be monitored by regional fishery officers. "The laws are not being applied fairly," the Senator remarked.

But Cmdr Lynch said "the figures show quite clearly we do not have a bias against Irish vessels." Of 1,780 boardings this year, 42.5 per cent were of Irish vessels and the remainder other nationalities.

Of 94 warnings issued, however, 68 related to Irish vessels. Domestically registered boats also accounted for the majority of this year's 33 detentions by the Naval Service.

Cmdr Lynch said a lot of Irish vessels were penalised for quota offences, and this could explain why they accounted for the majority of warnings and detentions. The Naval Service did not have the means to police other countries' quotas, he pointed out, adding, "we do not engage in a partisan approach."

However, Senator Kenneally replied: "We will have to agree to disagree on that point."

Cmdr Lynch also revealed to the committee that an attempt had been made by a Spanish trawler to sink one of the Naval Service vessels. He said the vessel refused to stop and tried to ram the naval boat, missing it by just 20 feet.

He said the Naval Service was told to break off the chase and the vessel continued back to Spain, where he understood it was subjected to various sanctions.

© The Irish Times

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2005/1013/245065109HM8FISHINGCOMMITTEE.html

moggy
13th October 2005, 19:23
This has been on-going since the salmon patrol's back in the 80's not to be believed

moggy
13th October 2005, 19:23
This has been on-going since the salmon patrol's back in the 80's not to be believed

hptmurphy
13th October 2005, 21:16
same old bollocks.....

gaff85
13th October 2005, 22:49
Cmdr Lynch also revealed to the committee that an attempt had been made by a Spanish trawler to sink one of the Naval Service vessels. He said the vessel refused to stop and tried to ram the naval boat, missing it by just 20 feet.

He said the Naval Service was told to break off the chase and the vessel continued back to Spain, where he understood it was subjected to various sanctions

Does this happen often? Are the patrol boats not allowed to "Shoot" warning shots in this instance.

This is a bit os a no brainer, if the NS is there to patrol and monitor only to be told to break off if a trawler attempts to break off.

Or am I totally off the ball here, as this trawler/crew will no the next time and the time after that that if they stand up tot he NS the NS will break off.

hptmurphy
13th October 2005, 23:52
hee hee..how things have changed..look up what happened to the Sonya when she tried to cut and run...banged off a few rounds in my time at errant Spaniards...now perhaps we are more politically correct...but it just doesn't have the same impact..pardon the pun ... as 20mm...yes shots have been fired in the past often in large quanataties..wonder who the ships captian was who let his ship come that close to danger without showing his cards..deserves a good kick in the stones..as a trawler at any speed ..steel hulled... would cut a PV in half.....

Goldie fish
14th October 2005, 03:53
I remember this case. The trawler tried to ram one of the RIBS(Not a PV) and when it failed headed for international waters when it realised what it was up against, and like it or not we can't chase them all home.

sledger
14th October 2005, 11:05
Fishermen and Fianna Fáil backbenchers have expressed outrage at a new fisheries bill that would allow the naval service to shoot at trawlers that fail to stop when requested.

Section 18 of the Sea Fisheries and Maritime Jurisdiction Bill states that fisheries protection officers may shoot at or into a boat, that ignores warning shots and refuses to heave-to, or fails to comply with an order to head to port.

sledger
14th October 2005, 11:21
Section 18 of proposed bill from www.irlgov.ie

(4) A sea-fisheries protection officer when exercising any powers
under this section may be accompanied by other persons and may
take with him or her, or those persons may take with them, any
equipment or materials (including firearms or other weapons (where
he or she or any of those other persons is a member of the Defence
Forces or the Garda Sıochana)) to assist the officer in the exercise
of those powers.

(5) If an order given by a sea-fisheries protection officer under
this section to the master of a sea-fishing boat or to a fishing boat to
stop, or to go directly to a specified port or to manoeuvre as directed,
is disobeyed or disregarded, the officer may, after causing a gun to
be fired as a signal, fire at or into the boat.

(6) (a) A gun may only be fired for the purposes of subsection (5)
by a member of the Permanent Defence Forces or the
Garda Sıochana.
(b) The Minister for Defence, after consultation with the
Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces and the Commissioner
of the Garda Sıochana, may give directions in
writing in relation to procedures to be followed for the
purposes of subsection (5).

The Blue Max
14th October 2005, 15:41
This will give more respect to Naval Service around the general maritime commmunity especially for vessels that frequent the irish box and irish waters and reguarly break irish and EU laws on fishing conservation etc... Im not the biggest maritime head out there so I would love to here what would be the general reaction that members of the the Naval Service give to this new bill and think whether it will benefit the Naval Service??

Bitter Boy
14th October 2005, 18:08
(6) (a) A gun may only be fired for the purposes of subsection (5)
by a member of the Permanent Defence Forces or the
Garda Sıochana.


Note the specific reference to 'Permanent' Defence Forces. So much for integration!

Don't get me wrong, as a reservist I have no desire to go shooting at poor fishermen who are trying to make a living in a harsh industry.

It just seems that the NS is still terrified by the prospects of NSR being let out on the high seas with weaponary. This would also mean that NSR personnel could not be trained in any of the GPMGs or 20mm as we would not be legally entitled to actually discharge that weapon in any thing circumstances other than training.

Anyway ... I'm just bitter!

Goldie fish
14th October 2005, 18:19
As far as I can remember, there are no NSR Seamen Gunners.

moggy
14th October 2005, 18:34
goldie as we move forward there will be - as far as the shooting at fisherman boats goes on, foreign governments have caused uproar at being shot at by irish naval vsl's too much hassle for the dail - too many questions ???

Lordinajamjar
18th October 2005, 02:31
So what would the Irish government have the Naval Service do in a situation like this?


Barents chase over Russia trawler


Norway's coast guard is pursuing a Russian trawler on which two Norwegian fishing inspectors have been taken hostage, officials say.
The inspectors are said to have stopped the trawler, the Elektron, on Saturday on suspicion of illegal fishing in the Barents Sea.

The ship was directed to head to Norway - but unexpectedly changed course.

Norwegian navy spokesman John Espen Lien said the trawler is now "going back and forth" with no real course.

He said the Elektron was stopped in the Svalbard archipelago in the Arctic, in waters claimed by Norway.

"The ship was transporting various types of illegal equipment, including nets which pick up just about everything, including small fish and fry," he told the AFP news agency.

'Dramatic' event

The two inspectors boarded the trawler, which then began to head towards Norway's mainland.

However, it suddenly changed course and was said to be heading towards Russian waters, with Norway's coast guard in hot pursuit.

Norwegian naval commander, Rear-Admiral Trond Grytting, described as "dramatic" the Elektron's attempt "to evade capture".

He said Norway was in contact with both Russian diplomats and coast guard, but was unsure how long it make take to resolve the situation.

"I cannot rule out that it may take a while," he was quoted by the website of the Norwegian broadcaster NRK as saying.

Lordinajamjar
18th October 2005, 18:50
Nobody answered my question. :frown:

So what option does the Naval Service have in a situation like this one?



Fleeing trawler heads for Russia

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40919000/jpg/_40919278_elektron203afp.jpgThe Elektron is expected to reach Russian waters in 10-15 hours

Norwegian ships are chasing a Russian trawler across the Arctic Ocean after it fled an inspection with two fisheries inspectors on board.

The Norwegian ships have been trying without success to stop the Russian vessel by snagging its propeller.

The Russian boat, the Elektron, was intercepted by Norwegian inspectors on Saturday for suspected illegal fishing.

It was told to go to Norway, but unexpectedly changed its course and headed for Russian waters instead.

Norway has complained that it is getting little help from Russia to resolve the incident. The Elektron was stopped in the Svalbard archipelago in the Arctic, in waters claimed by Norway.

Unusual situation

On Tuesday, Russia said the situation would be resolved through diplomacy.

It said its forces were waiting to intercept the ship when it entered their waters, when it would release the Norwegian inspectors and accompany the trawler to the Russian port of Murmansk.


A Norwegian military spokesman told the AFP news agency that the Elektron was off the Norwegian and Russian coasts in international waters.

"They're still not co-operating," John Espen said. "They are currently heading towards Russian waters."

Mr Espen said the Norwegian navy had held back from intervening because of bad weather.

He said Norway was not worried about the two inspectors, "but you have to admit that the situation is unusual".

A spokesman for the trawler's owner, the Union of the Fish Industry of the North, told the Interfax news agency that he believed a conflict over fishing quotas was behind the incident.

Norway and Russia have land and sea borders in the Arctic, and disputes over fishing rights have become increasngly common.

moggy
18th October 2005, 19:31
a situation like this would be dealt with proberly armed boarding parties by ns vessels or if failed by the dail, it depends or what naval hq would decide.

DeV
18th October 2005, 20:12
Wing?

moggy
18th October 2005, 20:25
Don't think the wing will make it out in 8- 10 hrs. How would they get out, unless another ns vessel shipped them out earlier?

DeV
18th October 2005, 20:46
Well if it was Irish fisheries officers they would be a lot further away from Russia than Norway is.

hptmurphy
18th October 2005, 22:53
Read up on the Sonia incident from 1984...thast what the NS have done in the past...fired everything but the kitchen sink at it!

FMolloy
18th October 2005, 23:45
fired everything but the kitchen sink at it!

Galley sink? :biggrin:

hptmurphy
19th October 2005, 15:18
Nope that got fired..when the cooks took there turn on the weapons..it was a bit like aships range practise...at sea with a moving target!

Lordinajamjar
20th October 2005, 19:27
The rest of the story.



Norway fish officials handed over
Elektron


Two Norwegian fisheries inspectors who were held against their will on a Russian trawler for five days have been handed over to Norwegian authorities.

A Russian rescue ship delivered the two inspectors to a Norwegian vessel anchored in the Barents Sea.

The incident started when the trawler, the Elektron, fled while the two men were inspecting it for suspected illegal fishing on Saturday.

It was chased by Norwegian coastguards until it reached Russian waters.

Norwegian authorities claim the Elektron had been using illegal fishing equipment which violated quota rules on fishing catches.

Both Russian and Norwegian authorities say they aim to investigate the captain and crew of the trawler, which was led back to its home port of Murmansk.

Lieutenant Colonel John Lien, of the Norwegian military's northern command, said the inspectors were handed over at approximately 0850 GMT on Thursday.

"I can imagine that they are very happy to be back on board their own ship with their own colleagues," he said.

Old dispute

The trawler was stopped on Saturday in the Svalbard archipelago in the Arctic, in waters claimed by Norway.

The boat was intercepted and told to go to Norway, but it unexpectedly changed its course towards Russia.

Although both sides have sought to play down the incident, the BBC's Lars Bevanger, in Oslo, says it has rekindled an ongoing dispute between the two countries over fishing rights in the Barents Sea.

Norway claims sovereignty over the waters where the Elektron was apprehended but Russia and other fishing nations disagree. They argue Norway has no right to detain foreign vessels in that area even if they are breaking fishing regulations.

Norwegian forces have detained Russian vessels before, but the most dramatic event so far involved an Icelandic trawler in 1994 which was forced to stop when a Norwegian coastguard vessel fired live shots at it.

moggy
20th October 2005, 19:50
nice one, should be nice court case

hptmurphy
26th October 2005, 22:50
the sonia sank on its trip home due toinclement weather and the amount of lead she had inside her...crew picked up by a box boat going to waterford.

Goldie fish
26th October 2005, 22:52
Lead ballast I assume?

Bosco
26th October 2005, 23:08
Murf where can someone read up on this sonia incident!
Seeing as thats the year I was born I know nothing about it.

Goldie fish
26th October 2005, 23:13
There were a couple of books written some years ago about the History of the NS. They detailed the event pretty well, though if you do a search, I think it was discussed here some time back.

Bosco
26th October 2005, 23:48
Cheers Goldie.
Question, how much 20mm ammo would the Aisling carry?