PDA

View Full Version : British tank names



turbocalves
22nd October 2006, 22:40
Hi all was out ploddin about the country side today, and as i'd no music with me i was thinkin bout random stuff, and it occurred to me any british made MBT i ever heard of had a name beginning with the letter "C", Centaur, Comet, Churchill, Cromwell, Centurion, Chieftain, Challenger 1&2 etc etc.

Does this hold some significance or is it pure co- inkydink, any input as usual is greatfully appreciated.

Thanks TC.

Groundhog
23rd October 2006, 00:03
I wondered about that too. But in WW2 they had Matilda and Vickers Tanks. And one called a Whippet in WW1.

But I have a theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruiser_tank

Perhaps the C is just a carry on from the Cruiser concept.

Goldie fish
23rd October 2006, 00:21
Probably down to the manufacturer more than anything. Same people(Vickers Defence Systems)) have been building Tanks in the UK for years. However those vehicles that look like tanks but are not, Made by Alvis, begin with S.
Scorpion, Scimitar,Sabre etc.
Vickers still do tanks.

turbocalves
23rd October 2006, 00:29
S.
Scorpion, Scimitar,Sabre etc.
.

are these not recce vehicles as opposed to MBT's?

but you could be right about it being manufacturer related

Goldie fish
23rd October 2006, 00:56
Read the line before where i mentioned them.....

turbocalves
23rd October 2006, 01:04
Read the line before where i mentioned them.....

i did my question was about mbt's not recce vehicles.

anywho didnt alvis do a whole series of light vehicles beginning wih the letter "S" scorpion, saladin, scimitar, and cos they were fast they did an APC/AFV which was tracked so it could kep up with these vehicles, called spartan?

California Tanker
23rd October 2006, 05:47
From the Bovington Website FAQs:

Why do the names of British tanks all begin with C?

Well in fact they don't; one only has to think of Matilda, Tetrarch or Valentine for instance. However the practice began in 1940 and it is attributed to the Prime Minister, Winston Churchill. He felt that tanks should have names, just like aircraft, so that they would sound more glamorous, although the first tank to be named under this system was the Covenanter, a name hardly anyone had ever heard of. Apart from the Churchill tank itself, which was a coincidence, all wartime tanks that had names starting with C were Cruisers, and that may well be the original explanation. Since the war it has been adopted for virtually all tanks, including some experimental prototypes, and has now gone about as far as it can go with suitably martial words starting with C.


Yes, all the CVR(T)s begin with 'S'. Scorpion, Scimitar, Sabre, Shielder, Stormer, Samson, Smaritan, Sultan, Spartan, Striker, Sturgeon, Salamander, Streaker (Prototype only).

Things get a bit quirky with the wheels though. Ferret, Fox, and Saracen, Saladin, Saxon, Stalwart, now Panther. Tracked APCs are another matter, FV-432 was sometimes known as 'Trojan', and of course "Warrior" is the only 'W' Artillery had a brief flirtation with religion: Priest, Sexton, Bishop, Abbot.

NTM

Pod
23rd October 2006, 20:10
Dont forget insects: "Firelfly"

turbocalves
23rd October 2006, 20:35
From the Bovington Website FAQs:


Yes, all the CVR(T)s begin with 'S'. Scorpion, Scimitar, Sabre, Shielder, Stormer, Samson, Smaritan, Sultan, Spartan, Striker, Sturgeon, Salamander, Streaker (Prototype only).



fook me theres a hell of a lot more of them than i figured:eek: :eek: are they all alvis?

Ps thanks for the info Cal tanker i can see i'm being put in my place rught and proper!!

Orion
23rd October 2006, 21:03
Vickers still do tanks.[/QUOTE]

They are now called Alvis Vickers or so says the branding outside their plant on Tyneside. Mind you the gate guardian is a Challanger I.

GoneToTheCanner
23rd October 2006, 22:10
Hi all
A Chally 1 as a gate guard?! Effin' hell. The standards of gate guards has gone up. Beats a mouldy oul Comet any day?...remember also, that British units traditionally named individual tanks, ie; each Troop had a letter and each tank was named by the crew but it used to get a bit out of hand; Phartarce (genuine!!), Phlatulence,etc. The French often name their tanks after places, especially places associated with French battles. Can't wait to see a Mowag with "Newtownmountkennedy" or "Skeheenarinky" or "Mweenreenacliste " on it. Although, the Kerry PDFers might have a bit of a thing about "Dingle-Daingean"....American tanks, sadly, look like New York subway cars during the baddest graffitti days.
regards
GttC

California Tanker
23rd October 2006, 22:13
fook me theres a hell of a lot more of them than i figured:eek: :eek: are they all alvis?

Yes, they're all on the same chassis, slight exception of Stormer.

In detail:
Scorpion: Large bore gun. 76mm, 90mm
Scimitar: 30mm cannon.
Sabre: Scorpion with turret replaced with that of the Fox CVR(W)s.
Shielder: Minelaying vehicle.
Stormer: APC based on a slightly elongated chassis (One extra roadwheel). Current production variant.
Samson: Recovery Vehicle. One went to the Falklands with the Scorps and Scims.
Samaritan: Ambulance Variant.
Sultan: Command Variant. (High roofline)
Spartan: APC version. (Also can be equipped with Starstreak SAMs)
Striker: ATGM version, with Swingfires. Only vehicle with missiles currently in British service.
Sturgeon, Salamander: Opfor variants in use in Canada. One based off Scorpion, one off Scimitar.
Streaker: Never entered service, some form of high-speed Spartan variant, I believe. (But would need to look it up)


A Chally 1 as a gate guard?!
There's one out front of Bovvy camp as well. Remember, they're all out of British service.

NTM

Orion
23rd October 2006, 22:34
Yes, they're all on the same chassis, slight exception of Stormer.

In detail:
Scorpion: Large bore gun. 76mm, 90mm
Scimitar: 30mm cannon.
Sabre: Scorpion with turret replaced with that of the Fox CVR(W)s.
Shielder: Minelaying vehicle.
Stormer: APC based on a slightly elongated chassis (One extra roadwheel). Current production variant.
Samson: Recovery Vehicle. One went to the Falklands with the Scorps and Scims.
Samaritan: Ambulance Variant.
Sultan: Command Variant. (High roofline)
Spartan: APC version. (Also can be equipped with Starstreak SAMs)
Striker: ATGM version, with Swingfires. Only vehicle with missiles currently in British service.
Sturgeon, Salamander: Opfor variants in use in Canada. One based off Scorpion, one off Scimitar.
Streaker: Never entered service, some form of high-speed Spartan variant, I believe. (But would need to look it up)


There's one out front of Bovvy camp as well. Remember, they're all out of British service.

NTM

This one is outside the factory.

California Tanker
24th October 2006, 01:36
And the other one is outside Bovvy Camp.

The problem being?

NTM

strummer
24th October 2006, 04:17
Wasn't there a WW2 era British tank called the Valentine? And there was the Grant, the British version of the US Lee. Some more non "C" ones !!!

Sometimes I even amaze myself with some of the useless crap I can come up with !!!


Later.

Groundhog
24th October 2006, 13:21
Dont forget insects: "Firelfly"

Firefly was an upgunned Sherman.

trellheim
24th October 2006, 13:27
there was an airfield defence vehicle called a Beaverette

http://www.standardmotorclub.org.uk/cars/military/features/beaverette.htm

Orion
24th October 2006, 15:06
The problem being?

NTM

Eh??????

Smithy
24th October 2006, 16:52
[quote=trellheim;139555]there was an airfield defence vehicle called a Beaverette
QUOTE]


Yes, we had them. Are there any left in Cav Wksps?
________
The Apprentice Forum (http://www.tv-gossip.com/apprentice/)

hptmurphy
24th October 2006, 22:35
yup one still driving.....btw way the churchill was classed as an infantry tank so that knackers the c thing about cruisers.

California Tanker
24th October 2006, 23:09
Well, if you look at the quote from the Bovvy site, they say it was just a coincidence.

NTM

hptmurphy
25th October 2006, 16:37
I read an article recently why the churchill was named after the man himself..nothing to do with classifications....justa coincidence as you say!

GoneToTheCanner
25th October 2006, 23:06
Hi strummer
The Valentine was a good idea that turned out to be shite in the end. It was meant to overcome the faults of the Matildas and the Cruiser/Crusaders, yet it ended up with the near-useless 2-pdr gun and an equally useless engine. It was marginally better in terms of speed, protection and mobility but against a Mk III Special or a Mk IV, it was just a moving target. Many were shipped to the Russians, who rapidly realised how shite they were and used them as training tanks.
The Beaverette was quite unloved, in British or Irish service.
regards
GttC

turbocalves
25th October 2006, 23:09
i did my question was about mbt's not recce vehicles.

anywho didnt alvis do a whole series of light vehicles beginning wih the letter "S" scorpion, saladin, scimitar, and cos they were fast they did an APC/AFV which was tracked so it could kep up with these vehicles, called spartan?

i was wrong stormer was the APC i was thinking of ...

heard a rumor that the DF flirted with the idea of gettin a few when they got the scorps but cant remember why it never happened...

Goldie fish
25th October 2006, 23:10
It looked like a Mini with armour.

I have a Janes from many moons ago that says Ireland got 14 scorpions and 2 Sultan

turbocalves
26th October 2006, 00:01
sultan? interesting did anyone ever see this? was it on trial or something?

Groundhog
26th October 2006, 00:55
I read an article recently why the churchill was named after the man himself..nothing to do with classifications....justa coincidence as you say!

They could have named it after his ancestor John C, the Duke of Marlborough.

hptmurphy
26th October 2006, 01:06
yeah must have the same janes goldie..never happened..just updated my janes collection...still out of date...maybe we should have a murphys instead...

The brits classified tanks as they classified everything..infantry...cruisers and heavy tanks..unfortunetly war came along and all the paper work exercises were ****ed up...matildas and churchills were infantry tanks..heavy armour..moved at infantrys oace..cruisers were allegedly fast and well armed but pathetic armour and heavy tanks were closer to artllery with armour....

enetr the panzers ..and the whole british concept felll apart..interestigly enough the french thought along the same lines....concepts derived from the first world war.

GoneToTheCanner
26th October 2006, 23:08
Hi all
If you ever want to read about the actual reasons for the failure of British tanks in WW II, read "Rude Mechanicals" by A.J. Smithers. The motor industry had a lot to do with it, as quality control was haphazard, to say the least. AJS quotes 1500 trucks being withheld from service because of faulty pistons.The relief expressed by british tankmen when the American armour came into service was understandable.
regards
GttC