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View Full Version : Replacement NSR Launch / New NS Port Security Launches



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BIRDDOG
21st January 2003, 20:14
Do any of the naval members here believe that there could be a requirement for Fast Patrol Boats. The type of vessel I would have in mind is the Intermarine MV85.

This vessel has the following performance:

Dash Speed: 42 Kts
Cruise: 18 Kts
Range: 850Nm at 18 Kts
Crew: 13
Weapons: Up to 30mm cannon.

More info at;

WWW.intermarine.it/mine/mv85.htm

These vessels could be used for coastal protection, anti drugs and general smuggeling, inshore fisheries, SAR, harbour patrols, crew training before moving to larger offshore vessels. Possibily a fleet of four could be split in two. Two vessels based in Cork and two based at a constructed pier at Renmore Bks in Galway. This would give coverage to the NW coast without wasting fuel and time steaming from Cork.

Whats everybodies opinion?

Silver
21st January 2003, 20:41
Sounds like a great idea to me !
Such vessels could be "shared" with the NSR also.

Unfortunetly the "powers-that-be" seem to have mental block when it comes to expanding the NS :mad:

Turkey
21st January 2003, 21:06
Definitly a good idea, during the second world temper tantrum the Yanks could build up to 9 of their PT boats, for the price of one destroyer.
With modern methods, such boats could be developed and built here in Ireland.IMHO. Probally the wepons, nav gear and engins would have to be imported.

Goldie fish
21st January 2003, 23:58
http://www.rodriquez.it/intermarine/img/mv85.jpg
MV85

http://www.rodriquez.it/intermarine/img/MV115DiBartolo.jpg
MV115

This has been a pet topic of mine for some time.NSR boats are fine,tho far from ideal for their percieved purpose. Also the inshore areas are being used for smuggling of drugs etc and a suitable vessel to patrol these areas is always a requirment,if even something smaller than the Peacocks.
There is a company in Carrigaline,Cork,Caramarine (http://www.vtplc.com/halmatic/product.asp?itemID=703&catid=246),who specialise in High speed launches,and have built Pilot launches and Luxury Yachts. They are a Part of the VT group,who make the Sentinel Launches for the HM Customs. No doubt if required they could construct a craft suitable for Irish waters. Ireland has a history of successful Boatbuilding,though few companies still exist.
http://www.vtplc.com/images/original/1769.JPG
Cara Marine Fisheries Patrol Boat

However :rolleyes: Irish waters,particularly the west coast would not be completely suitable for Fast Patrol Boats for the majority of the year. The fuel used ploughing through the rough seas could be better used on a more seaworthy,if slower conventially powered vessel.The east coast and the many large Harbours may be more acceptable for this type of boat,but the whole package is required. My personal favourite for the whole Inshore patrol, NSR role has always been that used By the HM Customs Service Made by the same Company who brought you the River class Patrol Vessel(see the other post)
http://www.vtplc.com/images/original/927.jpg
http://www.vtplc.com/images/original/928.jpg
It has everything we need really,and is already in use in the irish sea.More information here. (http://www.vtplc.com/shipbuilding/product.asp?ItemID=356&s=&catid=198)

Goldie fish
27th July 2003, 23:51
Here is the Current craft in use by the Cork Coy ASM. Draw your own conclusions.

paul g
28th July 2003, 20:23
Does the Cork ASM really have something that sophisticated?

Come-quickly
5th August 2003, 14:24
He means the orange thing in the bottom left

Vice Admiral
5th August 2003, 23:28
As already stated, the west coast of Ireland is far from ideal to be operating these vessels, don't get me wrong, i'd love such a toy but thats what it would be.

All the current drug interdiction work is intelligence based, it mostly involves observation and if a boarding is to be done they usually have been observing for half a day or more, to observe for these lengths requires endurance both distance and weather which is better provided by larger craft.

Opportunistic boarding from small craft would destroy a tourist industry before it would solve europe's drug problem.

Farel'
7th August 2003, 15:39
What about for other areas such as the shannon estuary and the relatively sheltered waters of the irish sea? The PVs,limited as they may be are more suitable for the exposed atlantic waters of the west coast,while a smaller boat would be more practical.
Consider also the seakeeping qualities of the RNLI boats based along the west coast that have often assisted the NS in rescues beyond 100 miles off the west and southwest coast. Dont write off small boats straight away...however it must be said that most fast patrol boats are based in sheltered waters such as the med,carribean, persian gulf, and northern european waters.

hptmurphy
7th August 2003, 17:11
Scuse me for being thick but was this fast boat thing tried about sixty years ago and was deemed a failure.......remember the MTBS.......The Peacocks are fine for inshore work and if it gets too inshore drop the RIBs ....thats what they are there for..The only problem with the Peacocks is that we didn't buy more of them.

FPBs are not the way to go because of the structure of the NS vessels have to have a livability factor due to nature of patrolling.....the home for tea syndrome has long been banished.Operational vessels will never be based out side of haukbowline due to security concerns.If you tie a FPB up in galway...where does the crew live ....where are the weapons stored.....maintaince......service and support.

Its complete fantasy to think that each backwater in the country will have its own mini naval base and those from The NSR who want there own cabin cruisers ....get with the programme ......up to recently your only assets were BP 18s...stop ****ing whinging.......if you want to get seasick go to sea.....the days of messing about on the river are gone for ever.....These overated pleasure craft are of no significant benefit to the DF. This pleasure craft are fine for some towel head prince cruising around the gulf but off the west coast of Ireland....... c'mon!.....If the NSR want to partake in the big picture be happy with going to sea with the rest of the Navy.This illusion of your own private cabin cruiser fleet is balderdash.

The portal protection fantasy died years ago....you are now relief crews for naval vessels and be proud of it......I remember a Time when ships captains proactively pursued a policy of NO Sluggies .....and that was only along side......Perish the thought of ever going to sea.

Sluggie
7th August 2003, 18:07
HPT- the only contribution to this thread by a serving NSR member was anti-FPB. Just because someone makes unsolicited suggestions about the future direction to be taken by the NSR does not make them a member.

I recently returned from a two week patrol more convinced than ever that this is our future. I have never experienced anything but friendship and encouragement on any of the eight ships I have served on since 1992. The yacht club mentality is all but dead in the NSR and good riddance.

The greatest factor which will determine the level of competency a reservist can achieve is the number of man-weeks provided for him to train. the Idea that the Slua could ever have been an effective reserve with only one week's training a year is maddness.

I know that in general NS members appreciate our efforts. Many of them are ex FCA members who understand reserve service. There is no doubt that the NSR has its fair share of muppets. Let he whos unit is without muppets cast the first stone.

hptmurphy
7th August 2003, 22:38
You misinterpret what I post.

I believe that The NSR has risen to a level which it could never have envisaged during the 70s and 80s and rightly so.I 'm glad to hear that there is an improved attitude towards the NSR amongnst the Navy now on the subject of your two weeks service I'm glad you enjoyed it and of your service on eight ships over 11 years ...congrats as this was unheard of in the past....sadly my own service was confined to two ships ....for three years, two and a half years on one particular vessel that is twenty four seven twelve three sixfive.....You could get off after your two weeks holiday.......you could even select when you could go.

I've deleted the rest of what I was about to post as it would cause offence.

Sluggie
8th August 2003, 02:37
HPT - Don't censor your thoughts on my behalf, I'm a big boy. I'm only pointing out that this FPB fantasy thread is not an NSR venture.

I realise that that in the eyes of professional seamen I'm just a wannabe and that its only their good manners that (usually) keeps them from telling me. But what are all volunteer reservists? Do FCA members not constantly listen to the derision of the PDF. Having being a member of the PDF and RDF you have the best perspective to judge whether or not we are wasting our time.

I can never invest enough time to aquire all the skils of a regular, while holding down a job and a relationship. All I can do is train for certain tasks and seek to releave some of the ship's workload. I envy our O/S's and AB's. They are getting more training in a year than I had access to in five. This new generation will soon make their officers and NCO's look even more out of our depth. I know that the skills defict gets worse as you go up through the ranks.

I'm not claiming to be salty Murph, I'm just pointing out that I always tried to improve myself. Don't worry about pointing out our failings, or the idiots who let us down. You won't be telling me what I don't already know.

So give me your best shot, you'll feel better!!

hptmurphy
10th August 2003, 14:04
As I said the NSR are to be applauded in the transition from fantasy sailors to actual ships crews and it should be remembered that when they are partaking in these duties they are on of the few units in the DF who warrant the staus of being operational.

NS vessels do not carry passengers and do not go on pleasure rides....All ships crew have a role to play and all patrols are operational.These roles are not intended lightly as a ships crew are unaware of the full nature of a patrol until they actually are at sea...Anything could happen.....rescues......boardings ....ATCP......disasters.

I only get a bit miffed when I believe that people don't take the role of ships crew seriously but anybody who goes to sea fully understanding their obligations to their fellow crewmen be they reserve or fulltimers is entitled to the heigth of respect.

While the Army reserve partake in training roles with the Army they are rarely called upon to act operationally and as a result are not always fully aware of the implications of their actions.Its one thing to act the part....but its another to be the part!

Goldie fish
10th August 2003, 14:11
Originally posted by hptmurphy
.

NS vessels do not carry passengers and do not go on pleasure rides....

I beg to differ on this point:D

I got a spin down river on Niamh recently,as did the crews families,and a crowd of schoolgirls:eek:and most of the "crew" who went with Eithne to St Petersberg were passengers along for the sightseeing. Many have not been "to sea" since eithne went to NY for the first time all those years ago

hptmurphy
10th August 2003, 14:18
yeah okaybut these are not operational patrols ....merely jollies...trust you to nit pick.ALL overseas visits are inhabited by people who shouldn't be there.....as for the harbour jollies mere PR.....what were you doing on it?......did they require extra ballast!

Goldie fish
10th August 2003, 14:21
They needed someone to keep an eye on the schoolgirls...

Vice Admiral
25th August 2003, 11:51
Dug this out and cleaned it up, photo taken by Lt. Kennedy SM (Retd.)

Goldie fish
8th October 2005, 16:56
Reading an Cosantoir recently, I was very interested in some of the comments of the Flag officer, firstly of Praise for the Naval Service Reserve, and secondly a possible replacement of the Motor training Launches.


At able seaman and leading seaman level it is going very well. Their (The NSR)standards of basic seamanship and Turn-out have improved greatly and it is a credit to the hard work they have put it. On Inspections now I have difficulty picking out Naval Reserve personnel from the rest.

In the past many of our personnel used to be quite condescending about the "Sluggies", as they were called, but now out Coxn's and executive officers are ringing Reserve units looking for personnel.
In the longer term we have to find a similar role for the NCOs and Officers, who, unless they are full time mariners, are bound to lack the experience of their NS counterparts.
One thing that I think would help would be the replacment of the MTLs with Larger and more up to date boats that could deliver a wider range of services. If they had more capable work boats it would allow the reserve to obtain a more defined role in the ports where they operate. It would also allow the reserve to provide support for the regular Naval service in a range of tasks. Typical examples would be providing a platform for the NS Diving Section or for NS sections providing maritime security.

Stinger
8th October 2005, 20:44
I get the impression that the integration between reserve and permanent units has been more successful in the Navy as opposed to the Army

Goldie fish
8th October 2005, 20:53
That seems to be the case.

The Blue Max
9th October 2005, 13:58
What Shape And Size Would these vessels most likely be and if the are to allow the NSR to provide the likes of ''Maritime Security'' what type of armanents would they carry 12.7/25/30mm???

Bitter Boy
9th October 2005, 14:19
They need to get something at least 20m if it is to be seaworthy enough.

For any maritime security role you would need at least a GPMG to be credible.

Cosantor
9th October 2005, 21:05
I'd imagine that they would be something of the lines of the Patrol craft used by the Royal Navy , University Royal Navy Units (URNU). (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.00h001001008008)


http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/upload/img_400/988797439f.jpg (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.00h001001008008)

The Sultan
10th October 2005, 12:12
So in other words, the regulars/enlisted ranks can do their jobs, but the officers cant?

DeV
10th October 2005, 14:19
So in other words, the regulars/enlisted ranks can do their jobs, but the officers cant?

Unless they have the qualifications, in short no.

Goldie fish
10th October 2005, 20:24
So in other words, the regulars/enlisted ranks can do their jobs, but the officers cant?

They can't because they are not allowed.

To do a seamans job, such as for example,steering the ship, you need 10 hours supervised steering before you qualify. To become a RIB Coxn, its something like 20 hours under instruction, before you are considered competent.
To qualify as a Watchkeeping officer, you must do understudy to the watchkeeping officer for between 6 and 9 months, as well as have a multitude of navigation qualifications. The Normal civilian qualifications which is considered the minimum acceptable qualification for watchkeeping officers,(Class 4) is a course of 3 years duration(including seatime). Combine with this the vast amount of legislation the Watchkeeping officer must be aware of if he is to replicate the Job of the Naval service non reserve officer. There are no Passengers on Naval vessels. You are there to fill an appointment. An Obvious solution to this shortfall would be to recruit Civilian Qualified watchkeepers to the Naval service reserve, But there are very few with the spare time, and the last thing they want to do on their scarce time off is go away for a 4 week patrol in the Atlantic in winter.

PTE bog
25th October 2005, 01:42
"What Shape And Size Would these vessels most likely be and if the are to allow the NSR to provide the likes of ''Maritime Security'' what type of armanents would they carry 12.7/25/30mm???"
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________

Ship- shaped and boat sized i think would be the way to go. And if a Naval Service Reservist can carry a 30mm weapon, Im not going to tell him he cant

spider
30th October 2005, 15:26
Heres another type of fast patrol vessel, might suit the NSR. For inshore use only, but would facilitate crews for sea training and be a useful military asset if required.

http://commercial.appolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=21364.

If that link does'nt work, it can be seen at www.appolloduck.co.uk by clicking on the military vessels section.

spider
30th October 2005, 15:47
That did'nt work !!! Try typing "ships for sale uk" and it should bring you into that site. Sorry !!!

Goldie fish
30th October 2005, 16:26
Mo?

Bam Bam
30th October 2005, 16:37
medical officer

Goldie fish
30th October 2005, 23:39
In the NS? I thought that this was a medical Corps speciality.

Stinger
31st October 2005, 21:41
sure why not

Stinger
31st October 2005, 21:42
just outta curiosity what rank are these new officers. Will the day ever come when one of these officers will command a naval service ship

Bitter Boy
1st November 2005, 21:16
These new watch Officers will be ex NS Officers or Merchant Marine Officers. Therefore there would be no reason why they could not command a NS ship. It would probably take several years before the NS would cross that threshold.

The problem would be as follows: The captain of a NS ship is traditionally a Lt Commader. There are only 4 Lt Commander positions available in the NSR. They are the COs of the 4 units.

I think that there would be real resentment amongst NSR Officers if 'blow ins' got the CO appointment. Imagine if you spent 30 years slogging it up the ranks to get to LT and then just as you are about to get the top spot, some Technical Support Officer swans in and takes it with only a couple of years service in the NSR :mad:

I think the NS are aware of this concern. I would like to think this Technical Support Unit is more use to the NS than the NSR.

Ideally, I would say, let the Technical Support Unit Officers provide the relief for NS watch keeping Officers onboard the ships and let the NSR off to operate the smaller inshore boats.

Everyone's a winner.

DeV
1st November 2005, 22:44
As Kermit has said the Technical Support Unit is not part of the 4 Coys, so a Tech Support Officer won't command one (unless they transfer to one).

I may of missed something but is the whole point of the reorg not to make use more useful to the PDF?

Goldie fish
13th November 2005, 12:28
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b345/Africatwin/S4300468.jpg

These are 3 of the 5 boats currently in regular use by the NSR. The Yacht is Tailte, and inside, painted grey are Aine Laoi and Freya.

I.T
13th November 2005, 13:00
The Aine Laoi is an Offshore 105 if i remeber correctly, that style of vessel is well suited and the Aine laoi was a great investment.... unfortunately it was such a great investment, the higher ups decided to shag it up right quick by putting a restrictor on her engines. She could barely make planeing speed :mad:

Still an improvement over the "Nancy" tho :tongue: although those were some good ole times

ODIN
10th January 2006, 20:03
For the NSR, taken from Goldies site, I hope he doesnt mind

http://myhome.iolfree.ie/~goldiefish/blazer1.JPG

spider
11th January 2006, 18:56
http://www.navynews.co.uk/articles/2006/0601/0006011101.asp

How about half a dozen of these ?

Turkey
12th January 2006, 00:24
http://www.navynews.co.uk/articles/.../0006011101.asp


I do not know if they would be generaly useful, it would depend on what mission is given to the NSR.

The Blue Max
12th January 2006, 00:49
They would be in line to serve with Army Engineer Corps/Army Diving Section (Army Engineers Have Experience operating Similiar Craft) Than the NSR as they would be more apporate to see them getting vessel that beneifit them first and then the NS and then possibly the Army as a platform for Divers etc..

*oh and i say that new form of Fast assault Craft Vessel is probably a modern derifitive of the British Rigid Raider which seen many years of service with HM Forces

spider
12th January 2006, 12:30
Again, depending on training needs, what about something like the stormforce 11 ?

http://www.redbayboats.com/

Those RM boats are very exposed looking, though I see the article talks about operating 30nm offshore. Rather them than me.

Something like the stormforce might give the NSR the capability for excellent navigational training. I've been to Scotland and back on one, excellent piece of kit. Reasonably afordable, around £150000 a throw.

The Blue Max
12th January 2006, 15:37
Personally i would think if the NSR/NS were to recieve something suggested by Goldie at the begining of this Thread would add imensly as a whole to the Naval service As a whole they would prime training vessl as well as very suitable to are needs they be also very useful to the Key Partners of the Defence Forces

They Could be a excellent platform for Army Divers to utilize and also could patrol maritime exclusion zone that are imposed during Naval And Air Corp Shoots Annually or when Foreign Naval Visit ports etc.. Here another image i aquired from Goldies Link to the VT Website..

ODIN
12th January 2006, 15:49
That looks pretty cool. Any details on size of this vessle or a possible amrorment

The Blue Max
12th January 2006, 16:19
Go to the previous page of this thread and look at post number "4" posted by Goldie it will answer all your above quetions the link is wrote as "Click Here For More Information" on his post.

spider
12th January 2006, 16:22
Blue max, I agree, those look like they would be ideal. Are they a potential replacement for the Peacocks one day in the inshore role ?

The RNR units used to each have their own minesweepers, but defence cuts in the early 90's put paid to that. Most of them went to Brazil. Is it likely that the NSR would be budgeted for a vessel like this ?

I take it that anything operated by the NSR would be for training purposes, to keep seamens skills alive for when they are attached to a regular navy unit ?

Something along the lines ofthe Stormforce 11 would allow them to conduct overnight passages, navigational training and be lightly armed if required.

The Blue Max
12th January 2006, 16:53
I wouldnt say replacement more inline with a attitions to the fleet. Theses vessels could form the basis for the new vessel the Comodore Kavanagh has been recently been talkin about they could preform numourous task such as Maritime Security Operations,Training And ATCP Co-op etc..

These vessel could form part of a small dedicated NS/NSR CO-OP Fleet/unit crewed by both Full Time/Part Time it could form the basis for bring not alone NSR Enlisted Personnel to higher standard but could also bring NCO/Officers to higher standard by achieveing there certain amount of Hours At Brigdekeeping etc.. under-supervision an the like.. (As Mentioned Previously On This Thread)

The NSR spend a large proportion of time training as a large proportion of man days are spent on call up to Navy For Full Time Service this will be hopefully increased for them when new legislation come into play from the Goverment..

ODIN
12th January 2006, 17:12
It would be a big boost to both the NS and NSR to get something along these lines. But what is the possible cost per unit here and would 4 units be enough to handle in shore duties?!?

Big Al
12th January 2006, 17:22
They'd never buy new for the NSR..put (keep) them on the PV's and dont waste money on smaller dinghies

Goldie fish
14th January 2006, 06:18
On a slightly connected note, a type of craft I have always been keen to see used by the NSR is shortly to replace the older vessel on station. The Cork Pilot Launches, Failte and Sonia will soon be joined by a new Locally built 42' boat.
http://www.safehavenmarine.com/PILOT_BOATsept_2005.jpg
http://www.safehavenmarine.com/PILOT%20BOAT.htm
These type of boats are fast, have excellent seakeeping qualities and with its twin 450hp caterpillar engines, reliability shouldn't be a problem either. Considering that these boats are designed to regularly crash into larger vessels in a controlled manner, they are built tough.
This boat would normally have a crew of 2 and have the ability to carry 6 pilots. Seated, wearing harnesses.

Goldie fish
16th March 2006, 19:16
Has there been any move on this? I am hearing rumblings about new Naval reserve craft for a while...

Bitter Boy
19th March 2006, 22:06
In a word........no.:mad:

Bitter Boy
20th March 2006, 10:28
Well there has been a good bit of talk about it, but has an order actually been placed?

When the said vessel is tied up alongside in the basin then I will believe!

Then again I'm just bitter.

ODIN
20th March 2006, 10:50
Well has a vessel be proposed for the role?!?

Dogwatch
24th October 2006, 20:23
Examples of some the types of craft available for port security /nsr roles, when looking to change the NSR launches. Supposedly being looked at, at the moment!

http://www.damen.nl/Upload/Resized/Products/_thumbs/thn4_mID_6347_cID_5358_AIP-SPa-1204-1.jpg

DAMEN STAN PATROL 1204
Length o.a.
11.85 m
Beam o.a.
3.80 m
Depth at sides
1.70 m
Power range
450 - 750 bkW
Speed range
25.0 - 35.0 knots
Hull construction
Aluminium
Superstructure construction
GRP

http://www.damen.nl/Upload/Resized/Products/_thumbs/thn4_mID_6347_cID_5358_AIP-SPa-1605-2.jpg

DAMEN STAN PATROL 1605
Length o.a.
16.20 m
Beam o.a.
4.65 m
Depth at sides
2.30 m
Power range
1000 - 2000 bkW
Speed range
20.0 - 35.0 knots
Construction
Aluminium

http://www.damen.nl/Upload/Resized/Products/_thumbs/thn4_mID_6347_cID_5358_AIP-SPa-2005-1.jpg
DAMEN STAN PATROL 2005

http://www.damen.nl/Upload/Resized/Products/_thumbs/thn4_mID_6347_cID_5358_AIP-SPa-2305-1.jpg
DAMEN STAN PATROL 2305

http://www.damen.nl/Upload/Resized/Products/_thumbs/thn4_mID_6347_cID_5358_AIP-SPa-2606-1.jpg
DAMEN STAN PATROL 2606
Length o.a.
26.50 m
Beam o.a.
5.90 m
Depth at sides
3.05 m
Power range
2500 - 3500 bkW
Speed range
25.0 - 35.0 knots
Construction
Aluminium

Steamy Window
24th October 2006, 20:38
How long of a life do the NSR launches have left?

Dogwatch
24th October 2006, 23:43
Supposedly quite a few years, but the ability to expand these vessels roles is somewhat hampered by the different designs and varying capabilities. A board has supposedly sat to decide on where to go with these boats (i.e. replacements for them) and how to expand their roles (along the line of port security, etc), like USCG boats.

http://www.uscg.mil/datasheet/images/UTB-41.jpg

or USN versions

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_061013-N-0593C-001.jpg

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_060830-N-9818V-174.jpg

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_060830-N-9818V-191.jpg

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_060824-N-0888R-100.jpg

mutter nutter
24th October 2006, 23:50
how to expand their roles (along the line of port security, etc), like USCG boats.
good idea IMO.

ODIN
25th October 2006, 00:42
Can picture the NSR going up the Shannon, Apocolypse Now style

yooklid
25th October 2006, 04:51
Can picture the NSR going up the Shannon, Apocolypse Now style

Too easy to imagine it. Certainly you'd be passing some counties that have a few restless "natives"

Goldie fish
25th October 2006, 05:00
There is plenty of charlie in Moyross. I once done Fisheries Patrol on the shannon with the ESB in what must have been a 5 foot punt. How I wished we had a proper Boat then...

Dogwatch
25th October 2006, 10:24
This is the next step up in the line of Damen products... just out of range for the NSR launch / NS Port Security vessels!!!:rolleyes:

http://www.damen.nl/Upload/Resized/Products/_thumbs/thn4_mID_6347_cID_5358_AIP-SPa-3407.jpg

DAMEN STAN PATROL 3407
Length o.a.
34.00 m
Beam o.a.
6.80 m
Depth at sides
3.30 m
Daughter craft
7 m RIB, inboard/diesel waterjet
Power range (bkW)
3000 - 4000
Speed range
25.0 - 30.0 knots
Hull construction
Aluminium
Superstructure construction
Aluminium

Steamy Window
25th October 2006, 14:58
Maybe this needs another thread but...

there is a photo earlier in the thread of three vessels which I presume are NSR, each with a P2XX number. Is there are logical numbering system for these vessels?

ELVIS
25th October 2006, 16:14
Mo?

They pretty much made up the appointment because a doctor was looking to join the NSR.
he's not taking over MONS job yet!

Goldie fish
25th October 2006, 18:56
Maybe this needs another thread but...

there is a photo earlier in the thread of three vessels which I presume are NSR, each with a P2XX number. Is there are logical numbering system for these vessels?

I'd imagine that they would be something of the lines of the Patrol craft used by the Royal Navy , University Royal Navy Units (URNU). (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.00h001001008008)


http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/upload/img_400/988797439f.jpg (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.00h001001008008)

They are RN vessels, used by the University Naval units in the past, but these days finding new life as Port Control boats in Gibralter and other areas.

Pod
26th October 2006, 09:38
They are RN vessels, used by the University Naval units in the past, but these days finding new life as Port Control boats in Gibralter and other areas.

They are still in use with the University units.

Dogwatch
28th October 2006, 01:13
http://www.fmv.se/ImageVault/Images/id_622/conversionFormat_4/scope_1/ImageVaultHandler.aspx

Principal data:
Length 25.9 m
Beam 6.0 m
Displacement 80 tonnes
Speed Approx. 24 knots
Engine Power 2x1000 kW
Propulsion 2x fixed pitch propellers
Material Aluminium
Complement 4 regular crew and 6 cadets

Goldie fish
28th October 2006, 01:16
Looks like one of the Fisheries Boards launches seen earlier.

http://www.vtplc.com/images/original/1769.JPG

By Cara Marine(Of Carrigaline)

Dogwatch
28th October 2006, 01:45
http://www.marinelog.com/IMAGESMMIV/ecuador.jpg

PRINCIPAL PARTICULARS
Length overall: 45.02 m
Length waterline: 40.98 m
Beam: 9.80 m
Draft: 2.5 m
Displacement: 300 t

Bit big maybe!

Goldie fish
28th October 2006, 02:05
Unless you are talking about a Peacock replacement, which is not on the cards for a while yet, yes, way too big.

Keep it real, please.

spider
28th October 2006, 14:07
Maybe this is an option (painted grey of course)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_class_lifeboat

The RNLI site has a slide show showing exterior/interior shots.

spider
14th December 2006, 21:26
Or one of these (not P2000 Class, ex Lough Neagh Patrol Boat)

http://www.navynews.co.uk/articles/2006/0612/0612_images/0006121201ax.jpg

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.2204

Dogwatch
2nd February 2007, 21:20
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Pressebilleder/A543.jpg

Type:Standard Vessel Mk I (Surveying, training and guard vessel)
Number of Units: 6
Built: 2005-2007

Dimensions:
Length: 28.9 m
Beam: 6.4 m
Draught: 2.0 m

Displacement: 98 tons
Complement: 3 men (crew) Capacity for 10
Speed: Min. 13 knots
Range: 600 nm at 10 knots


The upcoming six new Mk II Surveillance Vessels are to replace the more than 40 years old naval cutters of the BARS&#216; Class from 2007-2008.
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Pressebilleder/StdMKII/MkIIA_Kockums_midi.jpg
Type: Surveillance Vessels
Units in Class: 6
Built: 2005-2008

Dimensions:
Length: 43.0 m
Beam: 8.2 m
Draugth: 2.0 m

Displacement: 186 tons
Complement: 9 men (crew)Lodging for 15
Armament: 2 - 12.7 mm Machine Guns
Speed: Min. 18 knots
Range: 1,000 nm at 16 knots
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Pressebilleder/MkII.jpg

Goldie fish
8th March 2007, 22:15
Maybe this is an option (painted grey of course)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_class_lifeboat

The RNLI site has a slide show showing exterior/interior shots.


Nice craft indeed, however they are designed specifically(and built to order) for Rescue. When the RNLI finish with them, they are usually passed on to smaller local rescue bodies. Also much of the accomodation in them is designed to get the crew safely to scene in safety,through horrendous seas i.e strapped to a seat. Below there is an area for casualties to be carried back to safety whether able bodied, or on a stretcher. Much of the loitering that patrol boats would do would make things uncomfortable for its crew if a boat of this type were used. Also these boats lack open deck space. Such space would be an advantage should the Air corps require a craft to train pers. in fastroping to the deck of a small vessel or something..

ZULU
8th March 2007, 22:36
The upcoming six new Mk II Surveillance Vessels are to replace the more than 40 years old naval cutters of the BARSØ Class from 2007-2008.


That's a fine looking ship. Imagine what the NS could do with a couple of these

thebig C
9th March 2007, 12:04
Would it be a good idea to expand the Naval Service by acquiring a number of smaller multi-role coastal vessels that could fulfil functions such as coastal patrol, training and mine countermeasures, among others?

The vessels could be crewed mainly by members of the Naval Reserve, with a small cadre of three or four permanent Naval Service crew.

A ship in the 30m to 35m range, built to commercial standards on the basis of an existing design, would have a price tag in the region of €5m to €10m.

Goldie fish
9th March 2007, 19:33
Would it be a good idea to expand the Naval Service by acquiring a number of smaller multi-role coastal vessels that could fulfil functions such as coastal patrol, training and mine countermeasures, among others?

The vessels could be crewed mainly by members of the Naval Reserve, with a small cadre of three or four permanent Naval Service crew.

A ship in the 30m to 35m range, built to commercial standards on the basis of an existing design, would have a price tag in the region of €5m to €10m.

Firstly, if the vessel is between 30 to 35m its a boat, not a ship. A ship is over 50m in length.

Who would crew it? Do you know anything about safe manning levels, watchkeeping qualifications or do you just have a copy of "My big book of ships, guns and tanks". Naval reservists are part time, who have almost full commitments already acting as backup crews for the Naval service. There are about 400 of them in the country, if even that. Nations that operate Auxiliary vessels by reserve crews have a tradition of seafaring, and a large skill base to draw from, for example the crews civilian job is in seafaring. This is not the case in Ireland, where the majority of seafarers are fishermen. You cannot expect a fisherman to crew a fisheries protection vessel in his spare time.

Look out the coast sometime. See how trawlers get thrown about in our current seas. You don't even have to go there. Read elsewhere on this site the very long threads about ship replacement where we are told by experts that the seas are getting rougher and ships need to be bigger, not smaller, to operate effectively.

I Urge you to please use the search function, use the search function and use the search function, before you begin a new thread. I have merged your post with a similar thread that already existed.

thebig C
9th March 2007, 21:46
Is it such a big deal whether you call it a ship or a boat?

I’ve been sailing for 15 years, so I know a bit about the sea. I’ve also been reading military and naval history for 30 years, so I also know something about armies and navies and how they work.

If more reservists are needed, (i) make it attractive to people, and (ii) launch a recruitment campaign, so people will know there are vacancies.

There are some precedents for my proposal: take a look at the Canadian Navy’s Kingston class, for example, crewed almost entirely by reservists. And they’re not all fishermen: according to the Canadian Naval Reserve website “Naval Reservists are individuals engaged in their civilian lives while pursuing a military career. They work selective evenings, weekends, and during the summer period in a trade of their choice. They can be students, teachers, lawyers, secretaries, etc.”

On the question of vessel size, bear in mind that I specified ‘coastal’ vessels. For example, this French minsweeper is just under 30 metres in length and operates off the west coast of France, where you will find some serious seas at times.

http://www.netmarine.net/g/bat/antares/photo04.htm

Finally, I’ve seen a lot of stuff on this site about the New Zealand Defence Forces, so you probably know that the first line in the New Zealand Military Doctrine states that “The development of sound military doctrine is as much to do with challenging received wisdom as it is with codifying established practice.”

Goldie fish
9th March 2007, 22:33
There are no Vacancies as such in the NSR. The strength is set at the figure it is at.

Look at the Current requirements of the NS before you go creating some of your own. Coastal Patrol is not one of them, Neither is minesweeping. Sure they are roles, but not priorities.
We need an adequate deep sea fleet before we go investing in a reserve coastal, second line fleet. If the NSR are to operate any vessels, then they should operate one of the type currently required. Ocean going Tug for example. Dive support Vessel is another.

If you know as much about maritime matters as you suggest, you will know that the terminology is very important. Knowing the difference between a boat and a ship is very important. If you were minister for Defence and the navy want a new ship and you arrive with a boat, they will not be impressed. Likewise, you arrive at Zulus marina, having informed him in advance that you will be arriving in your boat. You can imagine his annoyance when your Cruise ship crushes the other boats at the marina.

As for Antares. Yes it operates on the west coast, but how does the discomfort of Crews working in those conditions affect their efficiency?

ZULU
9th March 2007, 22:51
Haha. I'd love to see the expression on some of the skippers faces when you call their "ship" a boat.

I love watching new money people buy the biggest thing they can afford, thinking it's best in show, when out from the med comes a 110ft tender-to and berths alongside. LOL.

To date, we've had a few >50m vessels stay. Biggest by far was Taurus II. 195ft!!!

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

If only we had the powers that be willing to get the ratio right. Large ships for co-ordination and off-shore patrol coupled with smaller faster coastal vessels for interception

Goldie fish
9th March 2007, 22:55
Much of the inshore work that used to be done by the NS is now the responsibility of the Dept of Marine/ Fisheries or customs. All have taken over this area of responsibility with a similar peacemeal approach.

ZULU
9th March 2007, 23:00
I can see it now. ERU / ARW / SB rocketing towards a spanish drug running trawler on board An Cosantoir Bradan

ROFL

Goldie fish
9th March 2007, 23:16
Bradán Beatha?

It happened before.

ZULU
9th March 2007, 23:24
It has? Only in Ireland, anywhere else and they'd have a warning flag in the form of a .50cal pointed at them

hptmurphy
9th March 2007, 23:32
Is it such a big deal whether you call it a ship or a boat?

"actually yes......!...Ships carry boats but boats cannot carry ships..simple as....

"There are some precedents for my proposal: take a look at the Canadian Navy’s Kingston class, for example, crewed almost entirely by reservists. And they’re not all fishermen: according to the Canadian Naval Reserve website “Naval Reservists are individuals engaged in their civilian lives while pursuing a military career. They work selective evenings, weekends, and during the summer period in a trade of their choice. They can be students, teachers, lawyers, secretaries, etc.”

Totally different concept in how our reservists work...even the RNR and RNVR had to move away from reservist crewed ships dues operational costs and crewing.I get the feeeling you might be leaning toward a purist coastguard fleet as opposed to naval patrol vessels with permant crews and secondary roles.Was considered converting the NS to this role but move them out from being a branch of the DF...and would there fore remove the Naval option from overseas deployments etc.

Please be clear in what you see as being the differences in roles as in the laymans view there is only a very blurred dividing line.

Bit of sailing is fine and some reading great as well should help to uncloud any misconceptions to what The Irish Naval service actually does as opposed tow hat larger..or smaller navies do..and what the specific roles and requirements are for our vessels as opposed to ..lets say NATO aligned fleets...

I think the comparisons between The NS here and the New Zealand or RNZN are totally out of alignment..taking ship size weapons fits etc into consideration and I for one have never given too much credence to it.No comparrison..as with the rest of their armed forces and still bothers me why some people keep up the comparrison.....

Goldie fish
9th March 2007, 23:34
It has? Only in Ireland, anywhere else and they'd have a warning flag in the form of a .50cal pointed at them

When the last of the Corvettes was confined to the Basin, a Naval officer was sent out in a Fisheried Board boat, the Cú Feasa, to exercise the nations right to protect its soveriegnity. He was armed with a pistol.

He was the Sole representative of the Irish Naval service at sea at the time.

ZULU
9th March 2007, 23:35
Agreed. Prefer for the DF to be standard setters rather than trend followers

thebig C
10th March 2007, 12:28
The Naval Service website says that "At present there is a 600 plus establishment for An Slua Muirí." If there are only 400 reservists at the moment and no vacancies, is the website out-of-date?

Marius
10th March 2007, 17:21
IMHO something fishy 'bout Carrington.:mad:

Sluggie
11th March 2007, 22:13
The establishment of An Slua Muiri was 675. Since the re-organisation of the RDF the new establishment of the NSR is 400.

thebig C
11th March 2007, 22:18
The establishment of An Slua Muiri was 675. Since the re-organisation of the RDF the new establishment of the NSR is 400.

Thanks... I guess they haven't got around to updating the website yet.

Goldie fish
11th March 2007, 22:24
Due to be Updated late in 2005/2006/2007....

hptmurphy
11th March 2007, 23:50
Spanish Drug Running trawler...hmm... bit of a misconception here as none of the Drug interdictions have been aimed at Spanish fishing boats...most tend to be at yachts or other vessels which do not exepect to be routinely boarded..I think even the druggies have copped on to that one.

Any you don't need firepower to board trawlers as it is actually the wearing of the FP pennant gives you the right to do so.

Guns, trawlers and degrees of force has been dealt with before.

ZULU
12th March 2007, 00:27
Apologies. Trying to be humorous. Me Cupla

hedgehog
12th March 2007, 00:47
is the skipper of the NS launch a sailor or a civvy

and how many times do they have to cross over each day

Goldie fish
12th March 2007, 07:42
Which one?

hptmurphy
12th March 2007, 13:29
The launches used the harbour are manned by suitably qualified civilian personal with the launches owned and managed by Cork harbour Transport.

Tugs owned by NS but manned by civvies.
The launches are subject to fixed time tables...don't have one to hand.

The only one which was naval owned and operated by NS personal was Colleen 2 which was the OCNBAD launch..haven't seen her in years.

thebig C
12th March 2007, 14:47
IMHO something fishy 'bout Carrington.:mad:

Why do you say that?

Goldie fish
12th March 2007, 18:52
The only one which was naval owned and operated by NS personal was Colleen 2 which was the OCNBAD launch..haven't seen her in years.


The "small officers boat". But was it the boat or the officer that was small...

Test Pilot
19th March 2007, 11:40
Hi Bird dog,

Just saw your post on the inshore patrol vessels for the NSR. Has anyone considered the Safehaven Marine vessels? They are building pilot vessels that far exceed the hull build of any other pilot vessel in service, in that they have a reinforced hull and scantlings that would put a larger vessel to shame. They must be doing something right as they are building for export to the UK and France and have attracted the attention of not just the commercial fishermen, but also the main port authorities, police and customs. I read also that they are building a 55 ft hull. Have a look at the site http://www.safehavenmarine.com and in particular the section ‘The best of the best’ for some superb heavy weather photos! They are also a local Irish Company making waves on the international market! By the way VT Halmatic have pulled out of the small craft building !

Goldie fish
19th March 2007, 13:35
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/showpost.php?p=111622&postcount=55

Having seen the New Pilot boat in Cork in action I agree.

ZULU
19th March 2007, 14:52
Wreck Hunter II is on our marina. She's a fantastic boat. But here's the downside. She is bloody expensive! Without the electronics Joe fitted, she came in around 350K:eek:

Goldie fish
19th March 2007, 15:11
Nice twin hull layout though. Lots of clear space aft.

The real Jack
19th March 2007, 15:18
The maker of "wreck hunter II" has some pics on his site of some pretty hairy weather: http://www.safehavenmarine.com/BEST%20OF%20THE%20BEST%20PHOTOS.htm

Mad bastard!

Goldie fish
19th March 2007, 15:24
Yep. That'll do nicely thank you.
And those photos were only taken at the mouth of Cork Harbour!

ZULU
19th March 2007, 16:03
Ya tell me about it. 1997 Laser II world championships were held in that very area. They sent them out and then when the committee boat saw what they were in canceled the days racing.

Only thing though: the crazy laser II sailors thought it was fun cruising down 10-15ft rollers!! I was in one of the rescue boats. We had to try and herd them in like sheep. Fell overboard twice that day from the RIB. Bloody hairy!!!!

With a Southerly Gale and the Tide coming out against it; it's like a washing machine!

Some of those shots are only 400-500m off the shore at Churchbay.

Test Pilot
19th March 2007, 17:22
Nice twin hull layout though. Lots of clear space aft.

It would make a nice dive boat, stable platform, and plenty of room for side scan equipment. Perhaps with a Hiab, a platform for ROV also!

Test Pilot
20th March 2007, 22:15
Wreck Hunter II is on our marina. She's a fantastic boat. But here's the downside. She is bloody expensive! Without the electronics Joe fitted, she came in around 350K:eek:

eh! 250k actually, without the electronics. Nevermind, whats a 100k amongst Joe's friends!

popeye
21st March 2007, 16:46
The NSR will get a new harbour launch, the specs are still being drawn up at the moment and the NSR are already running courses in the NMCI to qualify Officers and Senior NCOs to operate the launch, I think that the standard the NS are looking at is the Coastal yacht masters ticket. I think this is what theCustoms operate with.

Test Pilot
21st March 2007, 21:31
When are they hoping to have the boats?

popeye
22nd March 2007, 10:40
When are they hoping to have the boats?

1 to 2 yeares min, there is only one planned at the moment which will operate out of the Naval Base , but will be avaible for all the NSR Units.

thebig C
8th April 2007, 17:43
They can't because they are not allowed.

To do a seamans job, such as for example,steering the ship, you need 10 hours supervised steering before you qualify. To become a RIB Coxn, its something like 20 hours under instruction, before you are considered competent.
To qualify as a Watchkeeping officer, you must do understudy to the watchkeeping officer for between 6 and 9 months, as well as have a multitude of navigation qualifications. The Normal civilian qualifications which is considered the minimum acceptable qualification for watchkeeping officers,(Class 4) is a course of 3 years duration(including seatime). Combine with this the vast amount of legislation the Watchkeeping officer must be aware of if he is to replicate the Job of the Naval service non reserve officer. There are no Passengers on Naval vessels. You are there to fill an appointment. An Obvious solution to this shortfall would be to recruit Civilian Qualified watchkeepers to the Naval service reserve, But there are very few with the spare time, and the last thing they want to do on their scarce time off is go away for a 4 week patrol in the Atlantic in winter.

These are the training and experience requirements for skippers and mates of fishing vessels.
http://www.bim.ie/uploads/text_content/docs/Careers%20at%20Sea%20-%20Skippers%20brochure.pdf

Maybe they could be adapted for Naval Service reserve NCOs and officers?

Dogwatch
7th August 2007, 00:22
http://www.naval-technology.com/contractor_images/rodman-polyships/4-rodman.jpg
The Rodman 101 fast patrol boat for naval applications is 30m in length and can travel at up to 30 knots.

http://www.naval-technology.com/contractor_images/rodman-polyships/2-rodman.jpg
The Rodman 58 general-purpose fast patrol boat for police, coastguard and other applications is 18m in length and can travel at up to 35 knots.

http://www.naval-technology.com/contractor_images/rodman-polyships/3-rodman.jpg
The Rodman 101 fast patrol boat is 30m long, can achieve speeds of 35 knots and is ideal for customs applications and other activities at sea.

http://www.austal.com/images/delivery/kuwait-4.jpg
Austal Patrol Craft built for the Kuwaiti Ministry of the Interior, can carry up to 41 extra personnel, has a range of 300+nm

http://www.safehavenmarine.com/CUSTOM4.gif
The Interceptor 55 has been designed to be our new flagship, with a length overall of 55ft, and a wide beam of 15ft, she will meet the demands of owners requiring the maximum accommodation, deck area and seakeeping.. The hull form closely follows designer ‘Frank Kowalski’s’ established Deep V, hard chine design with 22 degrees deadrise amidships, 17 at the transom and a fine waterline entry forward of 49 degrees which will ensure excellent head sea performance with little tendency to slam. The design incorporates the 42’s secondary defection rail, which has been modified to form a second chine, giving benefits in rough weather performance and overall dryness of the craft. A raked stem and bow flare ensures she has plenty of buoyancy to prevent ‘burying’ when running down wind, and her wide beam will ensure a high GM, providing excellent dynamic stability, very important when running with the sea on your quarter when heel and yaw can cause broaching. A deep full length keel is incorporated which will allow a 32” propeller to run fully protected in a specially developed tunnel used in single engine craft this will facilitate the latest trend amongst commercial operators of fitting large capacity, slow revving engines, turning a large diameter propeller to provide the most economical, fuel efficient cruising speed combined with maximum engine longevity. The depth of keel also allows the vessel to take the ground and give full protection to the stern gear. Of secondary importance from a practical standpoint, but very important nevertheless, is that the hull has the same graceful sheerline as in other Interceptors, which will ensure she’s a fine, seaworthy looking vessel.
http://www.safehavenmarine.com/CUSTOM%20VESSEL%20DIVISION.htm

Goldie fish
7th August 2007, 21:34
Those people built the new Pilot boat in Cork. An excellent craft. Slightly odd looking, appears to hit the waves "bow down" as opposed to Failte and Sonia who were very much a "Nose up" design, but those who operate are delighted with its ability in the nasty stuff.

Dogwatch
8th August 2007, 00:37
http://www.tyovene.com/images/esittelykuvat/patrol,military_and_coastguard_vessels/watchful.jpg
Length o.a 18,35 m
Beam 5,20 m
Depth 3,00 m
Draft 1,50 m
Displacement 35 T
DWT 10 T
Speed 23 knots
Engine power 2 x 597 kW
Fuel tank 8 500 l
Crew 4 persons
Transport capacity 6 persons

http://www.tyovene.com/images/esittelykuvat/patrol,military_and_coastguard_vessels/usedom.jpg
Length o.a 23,65 m
Beam 5,60 m
Draft 1,40 m
Displacement 45 T
DWT 8 T
Speed + 22 knots
Engine power 2 x 788 HP
Fuel tank 2 x 3 800 l
Crew 6 persons

Test Pilot
8th August 2007, 22:07
Those people built the new Pilot boat in Cork. An excellent craft. Slightly odd looking, appears to hit the waves "bow down" as opposed to Failte and Sonia who were very much a "Nose up" design, but those who operate are delighted with its ability in the nasty stuff.

I can assure you they don't hit the waves bow down. The fwd section of the deck dips slightly as in a Trent clsss life boat, which may give the appearance of the hull being nose down, but in reality this is not the case.

Goldie fish
8th August 2007, 22:52
So I said "appears" nose down.
I'm sure its a massive aid to visibility.

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2988&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2985&g2_serialNumber=2

Dogwatch
9th August 2007, 22:58
http://cgvi.uscg.mil/media/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=154768&g2_serialNumber=2

http://cgvi.uscg.mil/media/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=154762&g2_serialNumber=2

Dogwatch
4th September 2007, 19:36
http://www.marinelog.com/IMAGESMMIV/ecuador.jpg

PRINCIPAL PARTICULARS
Length overall: 45.02 m
Length waterline: 40.98 m
Beam: 9.80 m
Draft: 2.5 m
Displacement: 300 t

Bit big maybe!

Here's a photo of the Ecuadorian Navy Patrol Vessel, maybe it could be worthwhile to think this big for an NSR launch replacement!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/more/more/fresh/070902-N-7029R-004.jpg

Test Pilot
4th September 2007, 19:55
Here's a photo of the Ecuadorian Navy Patrol Vessel, maybe it could be worthwhile to think this big for an NSR launch replacement!!!!



Nice ship, Dogwatch! But I think too much technically for the NSR. This ship would take a full time crew in terms of maintenance. Take for example the Custome cutter, Suirbheir. Not a big one by any means, but the maintenance has the crew pinned to the collar. You would be lucky to have the NSR check the oil and water. Any thing else would be beyond their remit.

Goldie fish
4th September 2007, 20:14
You'd need a major rejig of NSR training before taking that type of vessel out. Until you have watchkeeping qualified officers in the NSR with something at least akin to a yachtsmasters navigation qualification, that craft would be going nowhere other than the quay wall.

Goldie fish
6th September 2007, 21:57
Fisheries Board currently operating this type of rib, equipped with 2 Inboard engines. Looks better on the move.

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3189&g2_serialNumber=2

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3192&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3195&g2_serialNumber=1

hptmurphy
6th September 2007, 23:07
Hmm we have three agencies that can do about the same job...customs, fisheries and the NSR...all with three different types of vessel.

Ok so they don't officially interoperate or share resources...they are funded from three different departments..but its like having three diferent navies..to put a point on it..five if you count the naval service and the coast guard...six if counting the RNLI

Ireland deficent in maritime forces ..never..at this rate we must be a world leader!

DeV
7th September 2007, 16:40
Customs - prevention & interception of smuggled goods
Fisheries - Inshore fishery protection
NSR - Port Control, personnel for NS (PDF)
Coast Guard - SAR, salvage, comms, etc
RNLI - SAR
Inshore Community Lifeboats - SAR

Is the one Customs boat enough to patrol the whole of Ireland's coastline?
Are the assets available for SAR enough? Look at the number missing/dead off the Irish coast.

IMO the NSR should have RIBs or something similar (like the one above and the type without the cab) for training & port control. The major role (which they undertake at the minute) is providing personnel to the NS (PDF). Would be wise to spend millions on a mini PV for the NSR, just to have it tide up in Haulbowline? Or dedicate a PV to the NSR for 2 weeks a year for training & do a patrol at the same time.

As an aside with the Fisheries Board vessels remove the requirement for a NS CPV to do 50 days Salmon Fisheries patrols annually?

hptmurphy
7th September 2007, 18:18
Customs - prevention & interception of smuggled goods
Fisheries - Inshore fishery protection
NSR - Port Control, personnel for NS (PDF)
Coast Guard - SAR, salvage, comms, etc
RNLI - SAR
Inshore Community Lifeboats - SAR


and all these roles are backed up by the naval service.


IMO the NSR should have RIBs or something similar (like the one above and the type without the cab) for training & port control. The major role (which they undertake at the minute) is providing personnel to the NS (PDF). Would be wise to spend millions on a mini PV for the NSR, just to have it tide up in Haulbowline? Or dedicate a PV to the NSR for 2 weeks a year for training & do a patrol at the same time.


Not really feasible to have a ship tied up just to provide training as ships run all the time..waste of resources.If you have ships capable of the job they should be in active comission The cost involved in having primary units dedicated to training especially when you operate a small fleet eats into budgets..dedicated training vessels that also operate as PV's yes but not tied up.

DeV
7th September 2007, 19:00
What I was suggesting was that a PV could be designated as a NSR training vessel for 2 week camp (which would also be a patrol), during which the NSR would provide the crew (within training limitations) with NSR & NS (PDF) instructors/specialist crew.

Test Pilot
7th September 2007, 19:15
What I was suggesting was that a PV could be designated as a NSR training vessel for 2 week camp (which would also be a patrol), during which the NSR would provide the crew (within training limitations) with NSR & NS (PDF) instructors/specialist crew.

Thats a much more sensible and practical suggestion, Dev, for a variety of reasons.

hptmurphy
8th September 2007, 13:49
Yup I could go with that idea.....with extra class room and accomadation space in order to be able to carry greater numbers for a training role..

Right propasal convert Aisling to such a role now and still have it in service for the rest of its days while still being able to operate as a PV.

Ok so it would be a major rebuild but its not beyond the abilties of the NS to at least draught it.

I can't see there being funding for a pure training vessel unless the was a proposal from the maritime college that would operate such a vessel on a shaed footing.

Goldie fish
8th September 2007, 15:08
I don't think the maritime college has use for a real ship any more, given the simulators they have in Ringaskiddy. Though there is no substitute for seamanship training than the salty air...

golden rivet
8th September 2007, 23:08
I don't think the maritime college has use for a real ship any more, given the simulators they have in Ringaskiddy. Though there is no substitute for seamanship training than the salty air...:mad: oh yes and the sausages on the bridge at two in the morning,,, great ideas for training but the so called brains would be very confused:smile: and annoyed that they did not think of it... :smile:

Test Pilot
11th September 2007, 21:15
I don't think the maritime college has use for a real ship any more, given the simulators they have in Ringaskiddy. Though there is no substitute for seamanship training than the salty air...

Now there's a thought! How about sea time in the simulator - and sea going allowance too! And home every evening at 4.30. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!:cool:

thebig C
11th September 2007, 21:39
Now there's a thought! How about sea time in the simulator - and sea going allowance too! And home every evening at 4.30. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!:cool:

Might as well join the Army....

Bitter Boy
11th September 2007, 22:06
You'd need a major rejig of NSR training before taking that type of vessel out. Until you have watchkeeping qualified officers in the NSR with something at least akin to a yachtsmasters navigation qualification, that craft would be going nowhere other than the quay wall.

Sorry. Just back from holiers.

I must point out that a fair few NSR Officers and NCOs already have Coastal and Off shore yachtmasters.

RYA Coastal yachtmaster is the standadrd that the RNVR train their people to, so that they can skipper their university boats, which will be the same sort of size and capability of any new NSR launch.

hptmurphy
12th September 2007, 00:06
Simulated sausages.....hmm could be good for cohlestoral....its all Minnie carrols fault..I never had a fry up with cips etc at four in the morning prior to my first night on QM when he delivered it to me.....tastiest meal I ever had..God Rest him!

Test Pilot
12th September 2007, 22:08
Sorry. Just back from holiers.

I must point out that a fair few NSR Officers and NCOs already have Coastal and Off shore yachtmasters.

RYA Coastal yachtmaster is the standadrd that the RNVR train their people to, so that they can skipper their university boats, which will be the same sort of size and capability of any new NSR launch.

Sorry Bitter Boy, but while the guys on the top deck might be qualified, who is qualified in the NSR to RUN the ship? i.e. the technicians and engineers. My appologies for being the 'damp squid' again!

Test Pilot
12th September 2007, 22:11
Simulated sausages.....hmm could be good for cohlestoral....its all Minnie carrols fault..I never had a fry up with cips etc at four in the morning prior to my first night on QM when he delivered it to me.....tastiest meal I ever had..God Rest him!

Yeh Murph, Minnie was a gent! A cool one at that.:cool:

popeye
13th September 2007, 22:51
The RN ARCHER CLASS are manned by a regular RN crew and are crewed by the RNR. The R is now gone in the RNR and they have no R on their uniforms edither.
The NSR is getting a launch and this is still all up in air the NS have a full Captain and Eng Commander looking at it. The vessek will be a hugh leap forward for the NSR and its senior pers. Only NSR Officers will be skippers, not NCOs, I don't agree with this bit this is the Flags decision

techman1
14th September 2007, 13:56
Only NSR Officers will be skippers, not NCOs, I don't agree with this bit this is the Flags decision............

your not there 'to agree,' if you don't like the rank stucture you can resign your commission.

Goldie fish
14th September 2007, 19:57
Most small craft don't have commanders, but Coxwains. I have yet to see a Cox'n who is an officer, However I have seen Plenty of NCOs who were Coxwains.

popeye
14th September 2007, 23:19
Techman wrote
Only NSR Officers will be skippers, not NCOs, I don't agree with this bit this is the Flags decision............

your not there 'to agree,' if you don't like the rank stucture you can resign your commission

I think after 20 odd years service I realise this, please don't tell me how to obey the chain of command, I just belive that some NCOs would make better skippers than some Officers. I will as always do as I am told, but I am entilted to my point of view!!!!!

The new launch will have an OiC as well as a Ccx, I belive. Again nothing is set in stone.

golden rivet
15th September 2007, 11:42
Techman wrote
Only NSR Officers will be skippers, not NCOs, I don't agree with this bit this is the Flags decision............

your not there 'to agree,' if you don't like the rank stucture you can resign your commission

I think after 20 odd years service I realise this, please don't tell me how to obey the chain of command, I just belive that some NCOs would make better skippers than some Officers. I will as always do as I am told, but I am entilted to my point of view!!!!!

The new launch will have an OiC as well as a Ccx, I belive. Again nothing is set in stone.:biggrin: a good coxn and a good cook everything else is on the lower level of priorities...

popeye
15th September 2007, 19:01
Goplden Rivet at at last the voice of reason

hptmurphy
17th September 2007, 05:33
What do the NSR need launches for. On inception the defence of ports required "Darbys" or in spection launches to carry out stop and board operations on vessels entering harbours..this role is no longer required as the service doses not hold a mandate to carry out this type of operation anymore an specialist boarding teams are available to carry out stop and search missions.

Small boat handling in estuaries and rivers does not have a place aborad ships so what exactly now is the function of these riverine vessels..and more to the point what is the actual role of the NSR or those who can't fulfill appointment abord ship.

There is only one qualified watch keeping officer in the NSR that I am aware of by virtue of the fact he is a retire N.S. Lieutenant..and a diving officer to boot.

So would some one please enlighten me to what the NSR does that the NS can't already do its self given that we have agreed that the useful ness of NSR people on ships is severly restricted.

Bitter Boy
17th September 2007, 15:07
I think we are are crossing over to the other thread now but....

As the NS ambitions drive it further off shore with bigger ships and more international military and humanitarian missions in mind, it would seem logical that the NSR/ NS launch could occupy a role for in shore patroling.

An NSR launch, crewed by both NS and NSR personnel, which went on 2 week patrols would serve to both carry out an operational role and to bring training levels up in the NSR.

Operational roles which the launches could carry out are : Port security, Security for visiting ships, in-shore patrolling and fisheries patrol, NS diver support, Air Corp support operations (range security boat, sea survival training), Search and recovery.

Then there is the general role of NSR training, Raising public awareness, etc.

As previously discussed, NSR role on NS ships is limited, so a launch which could be skippered and operated by NSR personnel would appear to be the way forward. Certainly FOCNS and the NS have decided that it is the way forward for the NSR.

Now all they have to do is to get on with it and nip out and buy some before the economy downturns.

hptmurphy
17th September 2007, 23:05
Operational roles which the launches could carry out are : Port security, Security for visiting ships, in-shore patrolling and fisheries patrol, NS diver support, Air Corp support operations (range security boat, sea survival training), Search and recovery

Ok can go with most of that..but its a while away yet..but true there are tasks there that would release the Naval service from minor roles.

Are these proposals being considered at any level or are they just your opinions..would be interested to hear if the NS wants the NSR purely as a reserve for ships or is this role of coastal operation and inland harbours etc being seriously being considered?

Bitter Boy
19th September 2007, 21:04
There is plenty of talk. But you would have to ask the NS as to what their plan is.

If indeed there really is a plan.

Or is the plan they are talking about the real plan, while secretly they have developed a different plan?

Paranoid as well as bitter. I need therapy!
:eek:

DeV
23rd September 2007, 17:20
There is a requirement for 50 days of salmon fisheries patrols a year, such a launch (with NS& NSR personnel) could maybe do that?!

Bitter Boy
23rd September 2007, 18:01
Yes. Particularly when the Peacocks are replaced by OPVs.

Goldie fish
23rd September 2007, 19:57
The fisheries boards are better equipped to do this job now than when the Peacoks were introduced. Let them have inshore fisheries. Its as far from a proper naval tasking as one can get.

Pod
23rd September 2007, 21:42
Define"proper naval tasks" please

Goldie fish
24th September 2007, 01:11
I'll put it this way. Fisheries protection is a task given to us that is rarely carried out by other naval forces. Inshore fisheries protection, to my knowledge, is not carried out by any other naval force.

hptmurphy
24th September 2007, 02:39
Not forgetting that fishery protection is actually an ATCP role.
So its quite acceptable that its carried out by the NS.

Unless you want to go down the SFA road..Scottish Fishery Protection agencey and have a dedicated Offshore Fishery protection agencey without Naval capabilities.

Dogwatch
27th September 2007, 00:06
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3232&g2_serialNumber=1

German Navy Range Safety Craft in Kiel. Also used for other patrolling duties. Would seem like a suitable hull for NSR.

Dogwatch
28th September 2007, 12:07
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3238&g2_serialNumber=2

How about this as a suitable replacement? Danish navy use them for a multitude of tasks, between SAR, surveying and training.

Length 27,2 m
Beam 5,7 m
Depth 2,5 m
Displacement 95 t
Complement 10

Goldie fish
28th September 2007, 19:30
Touch of a Rope boat about it too?

Dogwatch
29th September 2007, 15:11
The larger enclosed RIBs would be excellent for long range ops.

Goldie fish
29th September 2007, 16:00
Agreed.

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3189&g2_serialNumber=2
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3192&g2_serialNumber=2

As used by fisheries board.

Dogwatch
29th September 2007, 16:03
Would prefer the cabin a bit further aft like the Spanish version & have a working / open area for'd.

Goldie fish
29th September 2007, 16:05
Its all down to your engine location. Inboard engines move the console either right aft or further forward. However on the boat pictured, I have to wonder about the usefulness of the outdoor helm position, aft of the wheelhouse...

thebig C
29th September 2007, 20:15
Its all down to your engine location. Inboard engines move the console either right aft or further forward. However on the boat pictured, I have to wonder about the usefulness of the outdoor helm position, aft of the wheelhouse...

Is it a secondary helm position, with the main one in the cabin? The exterior position could be used when coming alongside, or maybe just when it's a nice day....

Goldie fish
29th September 2007, 21:12
Is it a secondary helm position, with the main one in the cabin? The exterior position could be used when coming alongside, or maybe just when it's a nice day....


http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3192& g2_serialNumber=2

Ist a secondary position, but jammed in next to the power block with limited visibility thru from right forward to port. Normally such a position would be elevated, to allow some view over the salon.

Spotted a Redbay Stormforce 11m in use in cork last week for whalewatching, very impressive craft indeed, with a full cabin.

http://redbayboats.com/news/newbuilds/mischief.htm

Looks quite sinister too.
http://redbayboats.com/images/sf11/mischief/DSCN4874.jpg

Dogwatch
30th September 2007, 11:13
Ist a secondary position, but jammed in next to the power block with limited visibility thru from right forward to port. Normally such a position would be elevated, to allow some view over the salon.


It a secondary position next to the hauler so that the Coxswain has good position when they are hauling nets, i.e. can see exactly what small engine movements are required to ensure a net does not come near the prop(s).

Test Pilot
2nd October 2007, 22:27
[quote=Goldie fish;180350]http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3192& g2_serialNumber=2


http://redbayboats.com/news/newbuilds/mischief.htm


Have a look at her radar reflector. It is a requirement for a passanger carrier (P5) to have one fitted as part of the safety equipment and is inspected by a surveyor. This Osculati type of reflector only works in the VERTICAL position, + or - 3.5 deg before the reflected signal begins to deminish, and does NOT have a 360 deg. coverage as it is presently fitted. It seems to be a feature of Redbay boats of having them fitted on the horizontal, where they are totaly useless as a reflector. It appears that Redbay are unaware of it's unsuitability and more importantly, the DOT surveyors are not aware either! Come on DOT surveyors, wake up!

Goldie fish
3rd October 2007, 01:42
I don't see any radar reflector....

hptmurphy
3rd October 2007, 10:20
Maybe thats just the point!!!

Test Pilot
3rd October 2007, 11:30
Maybe thats just the point!!!
Just below the radar!

hptmurphy
3rd October 2007, 12:44
Seen...

Goldie fish
3rd October 2007, 21:42
Aha.
Not the best location at all.
Saw the usual arrangement for the current foreign visit in Cobh this evening, and I thought it would be far easier and more comfortable for those involved if they had a craft more like one seen above to do their task.

Goldie fish
9th October 2007, 04:57
The Orca Class recently introduced into Canadian service

http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/cms_images/MARPAC_images/gallery_images/large/ORCA.jpg

Dimensions: 33.0 m long x 8.34 m beam x 2.0 m draught
Displacement: 210 tonnes ( full load )
Powerplant:
2 x Caterpillar 3516B diesels 1,860kW ( 2,500 hp )
2 x shafts driving twin propellers (120cm diameter)
Complement: 4 crew plus 16 trainees (+ 4 spare berths)
Max. Speed: 18 knots ( km/h), 15 knots ( km/h) cruising speed
Armament: Optional 12.7mm (.50-cal.) M2HB machinegun(s)

Stinger
10th October 2007, 21:17
nice!! kinda looks like an MTB

thebig C
17th October 2007, 13:44
The Orca Class recently introduced into Canadian service

......

Dimensions: 33.0 m long x 8.34 m beam x 2.0 m draught
Displacement: 210 tonnes ( full load )
Powerplant:
2 x Caterpillar 3516B diesels 1,860kW ( 2,500 hp )
2 x shafts driving twin propellers (120cm diameter)
Complement: 4 crew plus 16 trainees (+ 4 spare berths)
Max. Speed: 18 knots ( km/h), 15 knots ( km/h) cruising speed
Armament: Optional 12.7mm (.50-cal.) M2HB machinegun(s)


Something along these lines would be very desirable for the NS/NSR. Given that they cost approx. €10 million each, a flotilla of 4 ships - built up by buying one each year for four successive years? - would provide an affordable, cost-effective training facility.

But perhaps they could be improved upon, and thus provide greater effectiveness? They have a very limited range/endurance - only a few days at most. Fine if they were to be used exclusively for training, but if the training could be combined with a coastal patrol function, they would be much more useful to the nation. However they would then need at least double their current endurance.

IMHO, a flotilla of coastal patrol/training vessels would be even more useful if they also had a Mine Counter Measures (MCM) capability, thus filling a gap in the nation's defences and the Naval Service's capabilities.

Bitter Boy
19th October 2007, 07:38
Lads,

Owing to the reduced public finances and general economic out look , the NSR can forget about any Launches for years if not forever.

We have just come through a massive boom period and the Goverment have effectively refused to spend less than €2 million on any sort of new boat programme for the NSR.

With a total capital budget of a paltry €30 million for the entire DF year in and year out, there is no way the DF is going to go out and spend €1 million a boat for the Sluggies.

Only when there is a radical increase in DF spending will the NSR get a launch and that is not going to happen any decade soon.

I suggest that this thread be closed as it annoys me intensly.:mad:

hptmurphy
19th October 2007, 09:47
I wouldn't be too sure about that BB.....The NSR are going to get one vessel...may not be the best of situations but one is better than nil.

Has been put forward where such a vessel could be interoperated by both the NS and the NSR and under the proposed circumsatnces there is an actual requirement.....its going to happen soon enough...could be even part of some package involving the new OPV's

thebig C
19th October 2007, 11:25
Lads,

Owing to the reduced public finances and general economic out look , the NSR can forget about any Launches for years if not forever.

We have just come through a massive boom period and the Goverment have effectively refused to spend less than €2 million on any sort of new boat programme for the NSR.

With a total capital budget of a paltry €30 million for the entire DF year in and year out, there is no way the DF is going to go out and spend €1 million a boat for the Sluggies.

Only when there is a radical increase in DF spending will the NSR get a launch and that is not going to happen any decade soon.

I suggest that this thread be closed as it annoys me intensly.:mad:


Just a comment: there are two ways to increase the capital budget:
1. The Government allocates more money.
2. The €1 billion+ annual Defence budget is rebalanced between current and capital expenditure. (If the capital budget is only €30 million, or 3% of the total, that is seriously imbalanced. It should be 70:30 or better.) Reduce day-to-day spending on the understanding that the savings will be used for the acquisition of new equipment. Of course the principal component of current expediture is salaries and other personnel-related costs, so if you want to generate serious funding for new equipment within the current budgetary limits, it probably means reducing personnel numbers.

Come-quickly
19th October 2007, 13:10
Lads,

Owing to the reduced public finances and general economic out look , the NSR can forget about any Launches for years if not forever.

We have just come through a massive boom period and the Goverment have effectively refused to spend less than €2 million on any sort of new boat programme for the NSR.

With a total capital budget of a paltry €30 million for the entire DF year in and year out, there is no way the DF is going to go out and spend €1 million a boat for the Sluggies.

Only when there is a radical increase in DF spending will the NSR get a launch and that is not going to happen any decade soon.

I suggest that this thread be closed as it annoys me intensly.:mad:

Then don't read it 'o' font of wisdom.

Bitter Boy
19th October 2007, 18:04
Then don't read it 'o' font of wisdom.

Fair enough.

You all continue to engage the fantasy and I shall avert my eyes!:biggrin:

golden rivet
19th October 2007, 21:25
I wouldn't be too sure about that BB.....The NSR are going to get one vessel...may not be the best of situations but one is better than nil.

Has been put forward where such a vessel could be interoperated by both the NS and the NSR and under the proposed circumsatnces there is an actual requirement.....its going to happen soon enough...could be even part of some package involving the new OPV's eithne in dry dock in verlome.. will that be the last ship there as we hear the dockyard is for sale any one got info on this and if this is true where will our ( warships) i love that word,, go to drydock now

Goldie fish
19th October 2007, 21:42
I have not heard it is for sale, however I can see it ending its life as a dockyard if the Container port isn't moved to Ringaskiddy. That site would be one of the alternatives.
The large crane next to the drydock is currently out of action. If its not maintained it will go the same as the other inactive cranes down there. Scrap.

Laners
19th October 2007, 23:42
It's back to pulling whalers < not rowing > for the reserve ,at least it was something they where better at than the regulars at the Naval Regatta , and I agree that this thread has become annoying .

Test Pilot
20th October 2007, 14:50
I have not heard it is for sale, however I can see it ending its life as a dockyard if the Container port isn't moved to Ringaskiddy. That site would be one of the alternatives.
The large crane next to the drydock is currently out of action. If its not maintained it will go the same as the other inactive cranes down there. Scrap.

It is going for scrap shortly as insurance is an issue with it. Pity though, it's some feat of engineering.

thebig C
21st October 2007, 18:29
This has probably been said before somewhere, but if the Government/Defence Forces/Naval Service are serious about maritime defence and the contribution of the Naval Service Reserve, one option would be to follow the example of New Zealand:


"The Inshore Patrol Vessels will provide a platform for vital reserve training in seamanship, navigation and Multi Agency Operations and Taskings. They will have a valuable role in local search and rescue operations and in resource protection duties when required.

Named after New Zealand lakes and previous RNZN ships, The IPV’s will provide a training and service opportunity to all four RNZNVR Divisions.

Inshore Patrol Vessel
http://www.navy.mil.nz/nr/rdonlyres/8c58ce92-f3e3-45fb-8b49-660fec4feb01/0/ipvmod.jpg

techman1
22nd October 2007, 16:29
Any idea what certification the RNZR have to command these vessels?

thebig C
22nd October 2007, 23:17
Any idea what certification the RNZR have to command these vessels?

I think it's a Regular Navy job, Lieutenant with 5-6 years experience. Exec. is a Sub-Lieutenant.

Dogwatch
24th October 2007, 22:37
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b0/Orca55gulfislands.jpg/800px-Orca55gulfislands.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca_Class_patrol_vessels

A $70m Canadian Dollars contract (€55.7m) for 8 boats, that's just under €7m per boat. Somehow I don't think this would be financially viable for the NS, for use as NSR boats.

spider
31st October 2007, 22:52
http://commercial.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=64493

spider
31st October 2007, 22:55
http://commercial.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=21364

Goldie fish
31st October 2007, 23:22
Where's me chequebook?

thebig C
1st November 2007, 00:56
http://www.austal.com/images/delivery/yemen-6.jpg

The Australian shipbuilder Austal built 10 of these 38 metre patrol boats for the Yemen. (They are export versions of the Bay class vessels built for the Australian Customs Service.) They cost less than €4 million each.

http://www.austal.com/files/delivery/DS_YeminiPB.pdf

thebig C
1st November 2007, 12:50
This is one of the original Pacific class patrol boats, the basis for subsequent Australian designs, and also for the Canadian 'Orca' class (www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-orca-origins-9.jpg).

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/patrouil/moqueuse/photo13.jpg

Goldie fish
2nd November 2007, 01:16
To repeat what Dogwatch said, please keep in mind.....




A $70m Canadian Dollars contract (€55.7m) for 8 boats, that's just under €7m per boat. Somehow I don't think this would be financially viable for the NS, for use as NSR boats.

thebig C
4th November 2007, 15:05
So what is the budget limit for an NS boat?

Goldie fish
4th November 2007, 16:21
So what is the budget limit for an NS boat?

Given that the purchase of their current craft was low enough to not even register as spending, I'd say less than a million.

You can get a lot of boat for under a million.

thebig C
5th November 2007, 14:58
Given that the purchase of their current craft was low enough to not even register as spending, I'd say less than a million.

You can get a lot of boat for under a million.


How many boats are they looking for? Aren't there four NSR units, in Dublin, Waterford, Cork and Limerick? Do they get one (or more) each?

New or secondhand? If the usage level is going to be relatively low, secondhand might be adequate, and you could get a lot more boat for your buck.

To handle existing roles, or will there be (should there be?) any change in role? Perhaps the next White paper should include an extension of the roles of the NSR, along the lines of the Canadian or New Zealand navies?

DaveOB
5th November 2007, 18:20
The official word is that the NSR will get new "boats" in 2008.

Test Pilot
6th November 2007, 22:40
The official word is that the NSR will get new "boats" in 2008.
Not if the tender has not already gone out. The lead time can be up to two years before a decision is made.:frown:

popeye
8th November 2007, 02:47
For the last time!!!
The NSR will be getting ONE launch approx 60 feet. I t will cost approx euro 800,000. The Army want this figure cut back. The specs are still not decided. Mod could you now please close this thread as the above is how it is.

thebig C
8th November 2007, 12:00
For the last time!!!
The NSR will be getting ONE launch approx 60 feet. I t will cost approx euro 800,000. The Army want this figure cut back. The specs are still not decided. Mod could you now please close this thread as the above is how it is.


The Army! What's it got to do with the Army?

Test Pilot
8th November 2007, 19:41
For the last time!!!
The NSR will be getting ONE launch approx 60 feet. I t will cost approx euro 800,000. The Army want this figure cut back. The specs are still not decided. Mod could you now please close this thread as the above is how it is.

Have the tenders gone out????????????????????:cool: Has it been anounced in the public domain, that the Navy will acquire a 60 ft vessel ?
Why would you suggest that the MOD should close the thread?

Bitter Boy
8th November 2007, 21:33
The Army! What's it got to do with the Army?


The Naval Service is still technically a section of the Army. FOCNS answers to the COS. In the final analysis the COS still has to ok Naval spending, including 60 ft boats for the sluggies which still haven't gone out to tender in accordance with European Union rules.

hptmurphy
8th November 2007, 23:07
The Army! What's it got to do with the Army?

For one so learned the ignorance of the facts amazes me

There is nothing technical about it...its fact the naval service is under command of the COS ...look at the break down of the command structure and the fact that the FOCNS is junior in rank to the COS

Same applies for the air corps

they are all under the same chain of command

thebig C
8th November 2007, 23:48
http://www.cfb.ie/Images/VES2.jpg

This is a State-owned fishery protection vessel that's about 60 feet long and won't be doing anything until next May. It's the 'Cosantóir Bradán', owned by the Central Fisheries Board, currently in Malahide Marina. (The CFB has another similar vessel, the 'Bradán Beatha', also laid up for the winter.)

Maybe the NS could come to an arrangement with the CFB, to have the use of one or both of these vessels until the salmon season starts again next May? Looks like a suitable vessel for the NSR. And perhaps by then the new launch will have been bought.

Goldie fish
9th November 2007, 03:37
And what would the point of that exercise be?

golden rivet
9th November 2007, 15:26
For one so learned the ignorance of the facts amazes me

There is nothing technical about it...its fact the naval service is under command of the COS ...look at the break down of the command structure and the fact that the FOCNS is junior in rank to the COS

Same applies for the air corps

they are all under the same chain of command:smile: nice one murph now the real question to make the thread lively how much of a bonus are each of them paid is this available under freedom of information:smile:

Te Kaha
10th November 2007, 02:44
The NZ Maritime Police Unit and the NZ Customs Service will be introducing their new inshore and harbour patrol vessels over the next 12 months. Locally built by Q-West Ship Building the contract for the four vessels was NZ$12 million. The first of four vessels ordered so far, the Deodar III will be in service in Auckland this summer. The vessels have a base cost of NZ $2.8 million and are a twin-hulled aluminium craft of 18.5m, 32 tonne design and have an intercept speed of 25 knots. They will be powered by twin 810 kw deisel engines using Hamilton jet thrust units rather than propellors. This is expected to give it a high degree of manoeuvrability. Each of the vessels has a hydraulic ramp on the stern to retrieve the vessels 4.5m rigid-hulled inflatable (RIB).

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff139/mlkac7rnzaf_photo/NZPoliceCustomsPatrolVessel.jpg
The new NZ Maritime Police and NZ Customs Service patrol vessels.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff139/mlkac7rnzaf_photo/Deodarlll.jpg
The first vessel due for launch next month will be the Deodar III.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff139/mlkac7rnzaf_photo/Deodarlllrear.jpg
Another CGI of the Deodar (rear view showing the RIB)

I understand that a tender is been currently considered for the NSR harbour and inshore patrol role. I wonder if a similar vessel to this might be considered.

thebig C
10th November 2007, 02:54
Looks good. Certainly should be considered. MAybe get the company to contact the DoD and see how this could be done.

hedgehog
10th November 2007, 14:06
:smile: nice one murph now the real question to make the thread lively how much of a bonus are each of them paid is this available under freedom of information:smile:

Part of the bonus criteria for the FOCNS was to maintain and increase the sea man hours

(person hours if you wish)

so for all you Sailors - if you had to do a few days more at sea from your family

at least you know that it was all in a good cause.

Test Pilot
12th November 2007, 18:52
Looks good. Certainly should be considered. MAybe get the company to contact the DoD and see how this could be done.

Could be built locally in Cork. A new 55ft vessel is about to be launched.
http://www.safehavenmarine.com/INTERCEPTOR%2055%20FIRST%20HULL%20PAGE.htm

Dogwatch
8th December 2007, 21:36
Could be built locally in Cork. A new 55ft vessel is about to be launched.
http://www.safehavenmarine.com/INTERCEPTOR%2055%20FIRST%20HULL%20PAGE.htm

The attached link is a video of the newly launched 'Patrol' vessel!


http://safehavenmarine.phanfare.com/album/207279#imageID=33107116

spider
29th December 2007, 21:33
http://www.nelsonsboats.co.uk/boatdescription.html?BoatID=121

Amazing what they've done with the available space.

Strathclyde Police use one as their launch.

The real Jack
30th December 2007, 00:49
http://www.nelsonsboats.co.uk/boatdescription.html?BoatID=121

Amazing what they've done with the available space.

Strathclyde Police use one as their launch.

Is that the lifeboat that was damaged when it had a close encounter with the ferry?

easyrider
21st January 2008, 23:10
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/77FD9397-A527-4844-BF01-8668496B9451/0/MODPoliceBoat1.JPG

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/D12BF294-5560-4656-AFD1-47B07FB4165F/0/MODPoliceBoat2.JPG

First of new 15 metre launches for UK MoD police, "....provide armed policing security and anti-terrorism patrols for the UK's three naval bases as well as escort duties for military vessels (UK and visiting forces) in the wider territorial waters. They also carry out other policing and marine safety duties in consultation with the Queen's Harbour Master and Naval Base Commander at each base."

Bitter Boy
16th February 2008, 14:39
I see that the customs are getting a second boat now at a cost of €2.3 M.

So customs, civil defence and the coastguard have no problem getting money for small boats and kit.

The only organisation that the government won't give money to for boats is the Naval Reserve. What a fantastic country!

theseaghost
18th February 2008, 15:42
I see that the customs are getting a second boat now at a cost of €2.3 M.

So customs, civil defence and the coastguard have no problem getting money for small boats and kit.

The only organisation that the government won't give money to for boats is the Naval Reserve. What a fantastic country!

I for one agree, i think that it is a disgrace how the government takes a very small interest in the NSR, and that the Army reserve are given a better budget even though they don't do anything, whereas NSR go on patrols and carry out the same jobs as NS personell.

Dogwatch
13th April 2008, 23:42
Suitable as NSR Replacement Craft??!!!

http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Pressebilleder/StdMKII/MkIIsoe3.jpg

http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Pressebilleder/StdMKII/MkIIsoe2.jpg

hptmurphy
13th April 2008, 23:58
Dunno about the NSR but would be certainly suitable as a customs PV

Goldie fish
14th April 2008, 06:55
Stop teasing the Poor NSR lads with ideas that they'll get a real Naval vessel...

Test Pilot
14th April 2008, 09:20
Stop teasing the Poor NSR lads with ideas that they'll get a real Naval vessel...

Is there still a proposal for a NSR vessel in the pipeline, or has it died a death?

Dogwatch
23rd April 2008, 01:10
http://media.shipspotting.com/uploads/thumbs/Ship+Photo+CARIBOU/625707_800.jpg
The Canadian Navy training vessel CARIBOU (PCT 57).
She is the third of the eight-vessel Orca-class being constructed at Victoria Shipyards.
Launched: May 2, 2007
Length: 33.0 m
Beam: 8.34 m
Displacement: 210 tons
Speed: 20+ knots

Goldie fish
23rd April 2008, 22:05
Reminds me of the John Jerwood that the UK sea Cadets use....Only painted grey.

Goldie fish
29th April 2008, 21:24
Saw this Boat in action over the weekend. Very nice, great seakeeping.
http://safehavenmarine.phanfare.com/album/207279#imageID=39409907

http://www.safehavenmarine.com/SF5Y2438.jpgk.jpg

Imagine if it was grey...
Two 500hp engines. Top Speed 24.5kts so far. Can potter about at 2kts also if you want to save fuel.
Most importantly.

MADE IN CORK

easyrider
9th May 2008, 21:59
The Department of Defence is considering a proposal for one "workboat" for the NSR at the moment.

Goldie fish
9th May 2008, 22:26
The Department of Defence is considering a proposal for one "workboat" for the NSR at the moment.

Source?

easyrider
10th May 2008, 11:25
Source?

Willie

Goldie fish
10th May 2008, 13:41
He'll do.
Did he have any more to say about it?

easyrider
10th May 2008, 20:53
From what I heard, the NSR won't be getting anything else unless they can provide personnel to operate them throughout the year. The voluntary nature of the NSR seems to be the problem: people can't be depended on, or at least that's how it's seen from the top.

popeye
10th May 2008, 22:22
Again I must repeat myself. The NSR WILL be getting ONE 60feet launch. No tender gone out yet. The Flag wants the TWO new ships agreed and signed off. I agree the NSR is hard pressed to operate what we have at the moment and it is of concern for all senior per on the NSR.

Goldie fish
10th May 2008, 23:21
Doesn't the flag also want to have the Launch/workboat available for use by the NS? For example instead of using the RIBs to provide port security during the visit of certain foreign warships, and to act as a target craft during fleet exercises(instead of having to borrow some civvy tug).

60foot is a lot of boat.

hptmurphy
10th May 2008, 23:31
So by that decree the NS is no longer interested in having reserve crews for PVs

Goldie fish
10th May 2008, 23:40
I heard the NSR is eager to regain some of the small boat skills they used to have when most of their training craft was sail powered, and move away from just being "spare bods" for the NS. This is eating into training time, and providing senior rates and officers with nothing to achieve. If they are to be replacements, they should be able to replace everyone on th eship with a reservist, not just the A/seas.
The BPs are fine but have no military use. Converted angling boats have less usefulness. If you intend using engines, it needs to be with a planing craft of some sort.

easyrider
11th May 2008, 01:22
I heard the NSR is eager to regain some of the small boat skills they used to have when most of their training craft was sail powered, and move away from just being "spare bods" for the NS. This is eating into training time, and providing senior rates and officers with nothing to achieve. If they are to be replacements, they should be able to replace everyone on th eship with a reservist, not just the A/seas.
The BPs are fine but have no military use. Converted angling boats have less usefulness. If you intend using engines, it needs to be with a planing craft of some sort.

I think you're right that the NSR is just seen as providing cover for NS leave during the summer, and doing minimal training otherwise.

It's a chicken-and-egg situation: the reserve isn't taken seriously because it doesn't do very much, but it isn't given much to do because it's not taken seriously.

The solution - IMHO - is to give the reserve a task or tasks that is additional to existing NS capabilities, and then to provide the necessary resources, which in turn would attract people who were interested and motivate them to turn up on a regular basis and develop their skills and provide career progression. Some examples of the sort of roles the NSR could undertake have been mentioned in earlier discussions: force protection for NS and visiting ships in Irish ports, mine counter-measures, and inshore fishery protection. I'm sure other members can come up with other ideas.

Goldie fish
20th May 2008, 01:08
I had the Pleasure of being out in one of Safehaven Marines 42 foot Catmaran workboats earlier. Perfect in my opinion, for the Naval Service Reserve's intended use for such a boat.

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4035&g2_serialNumber=2

The owner of Safehaven would be particularly keen to build a Grey Boat, should those intending to make a decision make their minds up. The Cat has fantastic handling, able to turn on her own length, and is immensely stable. Both engines are easily accessed for maintenance, and the roomy salon also can be fitted out with a galley and cabin below deck if required.
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4041&g2_serialNumber=2

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4044&g2_serialNumber=2

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YReatlc4dUI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YReatlc4dUI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Goldie fish
31st May 2008, 12:56
More photos of the above boat.( "Dark Star" Wildcat 40)

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jr3UBKq-ft8&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jr3UBKq-ft8&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4089&g2_serialNumber=1
Flying Bridge controls.

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4092&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4095&g2_serialNumber=1
Size Comparison with Interceptor 42" Pilot boat.

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4101&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4104&g2_serialNumber=1
Large open work area aft.

Support Irish Industry.:wink:

Galway hooker11
1st June 2008, 01:44
class boat, looks the part, where were the photos taken?? I thought it looked like the marina at East ferry with all the trees, til I saw the pilot boat.

Dogwatch
4th June 2008, 20:28
class boat, looks the part, where were the photos taken?? I thought it looked like the marina at East ferry with all the trees, til I saw the pilot boat.

It is East ferry, that's a new pilot boat that has just been built for St Malo, I think.

Goldie fish
4th June 2008, 20:57
Cork Harbour is masquerading as St Malo at the moment. Its the Marina at East Ferry/Marlog in Cobh.

Safehaven are building Pilot Boats for other european ports at the moment, so the Confusion will continue.

Imagine the liner passengers waking up to be greeted on their Atlantic cruise by a boat bearing the title "Port of Sines" on the side, when they were only expected to visit Cork.

pym
9th June 2008, 02:55
Just wondering; would it be nuts for the NSR to operate a landing craft like the Jurmo Class:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurmo_class_landing_craft

Or is it a bit of a stretch to give them a role like that

Truck Driver
9th June 2008, 09:08
Just wondering; would it be nuts for the NSR to operate a landing craft like the Jurmo Class:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurmo_class_landing_craft

Or is it a bit of a stretch to give them a role like that

"It has excellent maneuverability and can come to a full stop in
only one ship length from top speed"




That's quite impressive, considering the top speed of this craft is listed as 37 knots !!!

pym
9th June 2008, 18:11
"It has excellent maneuverability and can come to a full stop in
only one ship length from top speed"




That's quite impressive, considering the top speed of this craft is listed as 3 knots !!!

Yeah it seems impressive, but I'm sure it comes at a cost. I was just thinking something like it could possibly be useful for the EPV - and some of the computer generated images of the EPV had a landing craft tucked aboard.

As to the wisdom of giving the NSR a role such as that, I'll leave it to the navy lads to decide :smile:

Goldie fish
24th June 2008, 20:32
More photos of the above boat.( "Dark Star" Wildcat 40)

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jr3UBKq-ft8&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jr3UBKq-ft8&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4101&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4104&g2_serialNumber=1
Large open work area aft.

Support Irish Industry.:wink:

The Above boat was completed recently, fitted with an inflatable tender behind the fly bridge.

http://www.safehavenmarine.com/IMG_9377.JPG

Tadpole
24th June 2008, 21:33
Goldie Fish,
Any idea of the final cost of this vessel?

Also that appears to be a diver lift on the stern and it looks to have had some mid deck bench seats fitted since the last photos.
Any idea of its final destination?

Tad.

Goldie fish
24th June 2008, 21:43
Going to a Guy by the name of Mark Dixon. I'm not sure of Price, but I can say that Safehaven are much cheaper than what I expected.

TP may know more than me.....

Goldie fish
29th June 2008, 16:10
Goldie Fish,
Any idea of the final cost of this vessel?

Also that appears to be a diver lift on the stern and it looks to have had some mid deck bench seats fitted since the last photos.
Any idea of its final destination?

Tad.


I met the new owner yesterday(and a very Pleased man he is too). He'll be operating it from North Sheilds, and around Newcastle as a Dive boat. He told me it cost in the region of €400,000. Not a bad price considering the High spec interior.

Goldie fish
7th September 2008, 17:13
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4546&g2_serialNumber=2

Anyone good with Photoshop? What would this look like in Grey?
Interceptor 55, By Safehaven Marine in cork, Following Launch Yesterday.

Have heard little about anything in Naval circles regarding procurement of anything recently.

popeye
7th September 2008, 18:53
With the way the economy is going I would not hold out much hope for a new NSR Craft anytime soon. Hope I am proved wrong.

Goldie fish
8th September 2008, 21:16
With the way the economy is going I would not hold out much hope for a new NSR Craft anytime soon. Hope I am proved wrong.

I hope so too.

The Above Launch, being, er.. launched.
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xvk5f9PVP9I"> </param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xvk5f9PVP9I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"> </embed> </object>

Goldie fish
13th January 2009, 21:32
With the way the economy is going I would not hold out much hope for a new NSR Craft anytime soon. Hope I am proved wrong.

I heard an alternative rumour today, and it involves sharing assets with other agencies.
That's all I'll say for now. Nevertheless, in these times of tight budgets etc, anyone with any sort of capital asset needs to be using it effectively, failing that, allow others to make use of it.
You heard it here first.:cool:

Someone once said to me, "A small Island doesnt need more than one Navy- We have at least 5".

hptmurphy
13th January 2009, 21:59
Reading from what Goldie is inferring the Customs service and the NSR could end up sharing boats.

The Civil defence could end up sharing their inflatables.

I'l go with the firts option although I can see huge problems in it and in the current economic climate I would say the NSR can say good bye to ever having craft of their own.

easyrider
14th January 2009, 02:12
It makes sense. In New Zealand for example, the Navy's Project Protector Inshore Vessels are tasked with supporting Government agencies such as Customs and Fisheries.

Apart from the Customs Cutter, there are a couple of large Inshore Fisheries Protection launches and Fisheries also operate a fleet of RHIBS.