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  • Off base heli ops?

    As mentioned every now and then in the past, off base heli ops in the field (in terms of flying, maintenance and support) are something the AC should be looking towards. Since the last time this was mentioned - not sure when that was - has this happened or are there any plans for such?

    (If this goes into the realms of OpSec, my apologies, but any info would be appreciated.)

  • #2
    Yes, up and running with a nice new shiny hanger for Athlone ops..... With all the bells and whistles required to keep a 139 operational I believe .

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    • #3
      Would this be a more fruitful and useful direction for the AC,it seems to get more practical usage and return from R/Ws,maybe its time to discard F/ws and concentrate on helis both on/off base as required.

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      • #4
        While rotary wing are more flexible in some ways there are trade offs, they are more complex and maintenance intense.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by danno View Post
          Would this be a more fruitful and useful direction for the AC,it seems to get more practical usage and return from R/Ws,maybe its time to discard F/ws and concentrate on helis both on/off base as required.
          Like an Army AC??

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          • #6
            Actual field deployments are very rare. I don't think deployment on a long term basis to another military installation really counts.
            I would be interested to hear the last time a heli actually spent the night 'on the ground' with the troops. If nothing else this kind of training provides proof of concept and identifies deficiencies in doctrine and the logistics chain before it is actually required for real.

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            • #7
              Genuine off-base deployments, ie, out on a grass field, depending on local support, has not been carried out to any meaningful level nor has it ever been trained (or equipped for) for. When you have an Air Arm that hasn't voluntarily operated off grass or earth, for more than a couple of days, since 1945, there's a lot of catching up to do. If an air arm operates with the garrison mentality that it will always return to home base every evening, then it is not mentally or physically ready to deploy for even a short local detachment. A well-known air show pilot in this country, a good friend of mine, did such deployments with Harriers in the RAF and he graphically illustrated to me and others the sheer level of hard work and effort and planning it took to deploy a flight of combat aircraft, to engage in simulated warfare, on a grass strip in the UK, not to mind being in an actual hot zone. The Don is well, well short of that ability right now.

              regards
              GttC

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              • #8
                That was part of the Harriers role in fairness

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                • #9
                  The AC should wake up to the fact that their biggest "customer" is the Army. In order to integrate into their mode of operation they must get out in the field and exercise together. It's already been stated that the support, logistics and dare I say it even the will is lacking from the upper ranks of AC management. If Army Co Op is such a big chunk of their mission statement as such, esp for the helis then get out and Co Op with them in a meaningful way, not just a tick the box exercise and a photo op.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for the replies on this. Hopefully in the future, they'll get this one sorted out.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by meridian View Post
                      Thanks for the replies on this. Hopefully in the future, they'll get this one sorted out.
                      Would be great if as an organisation they did but its hard to see it. I mean where's the incentive? Nobody is twisting their arms. The army to their credit are plugging away, doing what armies do. The AC are not functioning to the extent that their resources and manpower could allow them to. The ingredients are there, someone just needs to take charge and mix them the in the right way.

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                      • #12
                        should they of got there blue uniforms when they did??
                        they are or were just a corp of the army the gap is now to wide (and they fly alone)

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                        • #13
                          To be honest, I consider their lack of ability to preform deployments like this to be the biggest reason why the Air Corps may well become extinct...[and I have been, and remain a supporter of this branch of our armed forces.]
                          "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                          Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                          Illegitimi non carborundum

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                          • #14
                            Well tbh the RDF do more 'on the ground' exercises annually than the average AC member. I don't mean that in a smart way what so ever.
                            We have these debates here, sometimes quite heated but at the end of the day the organisation as a whole needs to stop and take a look at where it is going before its too late to change direction.
                            There could be a real neat Army AC TYPE of setup if it was done in the right way.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by kaiser View Post
                              should they of got there blue uniforms when they did??
                              they are or were just a corp of the army the gap is now to wide (and they fly alone)
                              The blue uniforms were a vanity project and no more. There was neither substance, nor military reason behind the fashion project. If it were "necessary" the uniform changes would have happened when the Army went to DPM.
                              The Loss of SAR has woken up their (retired) top brass to the lie of the land. They exist to provide a means of flight to the rest of the Defence forces. They do not exist to serve their own interests.

                              If I were to play devils advocate, I could see a quick way to get back the 35m the state needs in savings from the DF this year. Ground all non Operational flying by the AC for a year. No more fancy notions about being interceptor pilots, or using the Helis to film footage for operation transformation. No more slinging guns from one field to the next when a perfectly good road exists, and the shots being fired are for ceremonial only.

                              DEPLOY! If it is one heli doing Casevac with UNIFIL then just do it.

                              The Army did not learn to deploy overseas by reading books about the UN in Korea. They went to the Congo, and learnt the hard way.
                              The Navy did not learn about anti Drug operations from watching it on Discovery Channel. They saw the intel, made the first move, and started landing boats of smugglers in the courts.
                              The Air Corpse has not learnt the hard way, even though it has sat through the very hard lessons. They did not jump back into Waterford SAR after Dh248 and say "Lets try it again, but do it right this time". Instead they put their hands up and as good as said "the Civvies can do it better. Lets go buy a new ministers taxi instead".


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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