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  1. #26
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    Last used during the civil war

  2. #27
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    But we have no need for an offensive role RGJ...I do agree with humanitarian ops though I don't think the benefits would be worth the cost (landing craft, adapted ships, adapted vehicles...)
    as an island nation i do find it lacking that there are no dedicated Marines.

    ireland can harness it's maritime history and develop a niche force to be reckoned with - even if only in defence.

    who'd wanna fcuk with a load of big hairy irishmen well trained and armed to the teeth guarding vessels transiting through the Indian Ocean?

    you could blaze a trail here and get on loads of exchanges with other Marines.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  4. #28
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    As I said, I agree to a point but for us the major factor is the €€€€€€€€'s
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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  6. #29
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    Sadly, I should add
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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  8. #30
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    We would need to have a Navy first. Rather than having a Navy with armed soldiers called marines we have an Army with a naval force called the Naval Service

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  10. #31
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    as an island nation i do find it lacking that there are no dedicated Marines.

    ireland can harness it's maritime history and develop a niche force to be reckoned with - even if only in defence.

    who'd wanna fcuk with a load of big hairy irishmen well trained and armed to the teeth guarding vessels transiting through the Indian Ocean?

    you could blaze a trail here and get on loads of exchanges with other Marines.
    Do you even think when you are typing any more? Do you have a clue what marines do? You, dear chap, are turning into a plastic paddy. All that last post was short was a few shilleleaghs.

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  12. #32
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Wheres the reality button!

    We have around 1100 people in the NS, 8 ships and one base, we are primarily engaged in fishery potection drug interdiction overseas support occassionaly SAR and are the Naval Arm of the Defence forces .

    We have several units including special forces even some reserve units that train in boat landing techniques, we have no naval air assets let alone platforms able to operate helos, ships with very little ability to accomadate 'marines' and no where to deploy them.

    I know Royal Naval vessels of a similar size have a limited capacity to embark marines, and have had occasion to do so in the past.

    Simply unless we intend on taking Rockall by force we have no requirement as there a various groupings in what I have mention that can already carry out both on ship and shore recce parties work.

    Welcome to the board!



    who'd wanna fcuk with a load of big hairy irishmen well trained and armed to the teeth guarding vessels transiting through the Indian Ocean?
    Seemingly a lot of people do as there are quite a few ex navy guys out there doing the job for quite some time now!
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 23rd April 2012 at 22:43.
    Just visiting

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  14. #33
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Do you even think when you are typing any more? Do you have a clue what marines do? You, dear chap, are turning into a plastic paddy. All that last post was short was a few shilleleaghs.
    to be fair, i was listening to Irish Pub FM at the time.

    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 23rd April 2012 at 22:47.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  15. #34
    L/SEA damo de muff diver's Avatar
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    The Irish Naval Service did take on a Marine corp in the 1980's

    His name was Connie and he hailed from Skibbereen......Legend.......
    What do you mean abandon ship
    Are they taking requests?

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  17. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomh903 View Post
    Do you think that the Irish Defence Force should have a specialy desighned unit to carry out combat at sea...
    no, because the DF neither has a hole in its doctrine thats got 'amphibious warfare' written all over it, or the assets (or potential assets) to carry out such operations. moreover, the government, and wider body politic, have no apparent wish to be able to conduct such operations.

    its exactly the same as the parachute capability - no Irish government would touch an operation that needed such forms of entry with a 300ft bargepole.

    thats not the same as having no cross training: given how short-handed the NS are it would make sense to have a designated Coy-sized Army infantry unit providing individual reinforcemets for boarding parties and weapons mounts in NS vessels, as well as to form an Amphibious Group - a unit used to operating within the NS and maritime environment as well as being used to operating with small boats. this could provide not a traditional Raiding Sqn, but an Inf/Sigs/Logs 'bridge' between the NS and the Army when the NS is supporting the Army on OS operations in the way it did in Liberia.

  18. #36
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    I don't think we need a Marine unit exactly, but we should have a Bn sized SFSG that could cross train with other army's SFSG units so that it has the experience in Maritime, Airborne, Mountainous, Arctic operations. That way we'd have a capability to support SF ops while able to interoperate with foreign SF on ops overseas. It'll also add an additional air of prestige within the DF as well as introducing an intermediate tier between line units and the ARW.

  19. #37
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Lets discuss this when we own an EPV.

    that is all.

    carry on.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  21. #38
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    I'm not saying we should have the kit like Chinooks, Hercs, landing craft etc, that's the point of making cross training arrangements, we'd use other armies' kit for that, as we probably would on Ops. The Irish Government don't have the balls to deploy somewhere alone, so we can always expect to work with someone else who'll no doubt have the kit we can't afford.

  22. #39
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    S&S, i think, sadly, that you've both hit the nail on the head and missed the crux completely - the IG is not going to go for potentially 'kinetic' operations within the forseeable future, and without the chance of it being a bit 'sporty' you just don't need either a parachute/airmobile capability, or an Amphibious capability, purely because you could arrive bus!

    the proof of this is Afghanistan - Northern and Western Afghanistan in 2001/02/03/04/05 represented the most open goal opportunity possible of what the Govt said it wanted, and the DF was moving towards. peacekeeping/PE, lots of development work, all Irelands EU partners there as well as its other friends - the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand - to help with the logs support that Ireland needs, as well as a smattering of the 'Neutrals', particularly the UN and Sweden, there to provide the political cover, all in joint cause against the very devil himself.

    what did Ireland do when presented with this heaven sent opportunity where every single military and political box was ticked with a massive Gold pen? it sent 7 blokes there and everyone else went to Liberia.

    the Irish political class has no interest in anything more militarily or politically challenging than UNFIL - Chad scared the crap out of them - there will be no development of capability, there will be no EPV/MRV, there will be no 'strategic airlift', infact there will almost certainly not be any overseas tactical airlft either. no parachute role, no amphibious role, no high-readiness role, no SFSG role - just, and only, the minimum, cheapest, least controversial PK operation possible to keep the population feeling warm about themselves, CIT, shovelling snow, filling sandbags when it rains, and Easter Parades.

    which is sad, but none the less true.
    Last edited by ropebag; 24th April 2012 at 13:34.

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  24. #40
    Nijmegen Neanderthal Eddie Dillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    S&S, i think, sadly, that you've both hit the nail on the head and missed the crux completely - the IG is not going to go for potentially 'kinetic' operations within the forseeable future, and without the chance of it being a bit 'sporty' you just don't need either a parachute/airmobile capability, or an Amphibious capability, purely because you could arrive bus!

    the proof of this is Afghanistan - Northern and Western Afghanistan in 2001/02/03/04/05 represented the most open goal opportunity possible of what the Govt said it wanted, and the DF was moving towards. peacekeeping/PE, lots of development work, all Irelands EU partners there as well as its other friends - the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand - to help with the logs support that Ireland needs, as well as a smattering of the 'Neutrals', particularly the UN and Sweden, there to provide the political cover, all in joint cause against the very devil himself.

    what did Ireland do when presented with this heaven sent opportunity where every single military and political box was ticked with a massive Gold pen? it sent 7 blokes there and everyone else went to Liberia.

    the Irish political class has no interest in anything more militarily or politically challenging than UNFIL - Chad scared the crap out of them - there will be no development of capability, there will be no EPV/MRV, there will be no 'strategic airlift', infact there will almost certainly not be any overseas tactical airlft either. no parachute role, no amphibious role, no high-readiness role, no SFSG role - just, and only, the minimum, cheapest, least controversial PK operation possible to keep the population feeling warm about themselves, CIT, shovelling snow, filling sandbags when it rains, and Easter Parades.

    which is sad, but none the less true.
    You have it bang on there lad unfortunately.
    "Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."

    Otto Von Bismark

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  26. #41
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    RB,

    Ahem- I think it might be something to do with the fact that the vast majority of the decent people of Britain and Ireland did not then, and certainly do not now, support military adventurism in Afghanistan.
    And, much as you might not like it, THE PEOPLE ARE SOVEREIGN, and we are not stupid enough to think that all threats are external.

  27. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    The Irish Government don't have the balls to deploy somewhere alone, so we can always expect to work with someone else who'll no doubt have the kit we can't afford.
    1) Who do you think we should go to war with then, and why?

    2) Kit is not a problem really - the only possibility of Ireland getting involved in a major war would be in the highly-unlikely event of being invaded and our SOP historically in that scenario is that we take the kit off the enemy. This is actually just second nature to us - and the only reason we have a PDF and RDF is to hold the ground initially, delay the enemy a bit, die for their country even so that the rest of us who abhor war would have a bit of time to teach the enemy no end of a lesson in ruthlessness and viciousness.

    In the meantime, we prefer to listen to Nora Jones and dream of humping Andrea Corr over a whole weekend rather than humping 25kg. of kit around the Gen of Imaal.

  28. #43
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    Can some explain to an ignorant sod like me why Chad "scared the crap out of" the political class in Ireland??
    "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

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  30. #44
    Retired sapper smegers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamy Window View Post
    Can some explain to an ignorant sod like me why Chad "scared the crap out of" the political class in Ireland??
    it was a non UN mission.

  31. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamy Window View Post
    Can some explain to an ignorant sod like me why Chad "scared the crap out of" the political class in Ireland??
    it was expensive, it was potentially very dangerous indeed (and full credit to the units involved - they did a bloody good job at the arse end of nowhere in grim conditions), and it was politically controversal because it was portrayed by some as 'propping-up' a fairly unpleasent government who'se survival was an element of French African policy.

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  33. #46
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    Epv???

  34. #47
    C/S Tango_Charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    it was expensive, it was potentially very dangerous indeed (and full credit to the units involved - they did a bloody good job at the arse end of nowhere in grim conditions), and it was politically controversal because it was portrayed by some as 'propping-up' a fairly unpleasent government who'se survival was an element of French African policy.
    Nicely put dude, you managed to make that sound like you were pitching your screenplay.

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  36. #48
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Can some explain to an ignorant sod like me why Chad "scared the crap out of" the political class in Ireland
    Wasn't a UN mandate initially plus we had to pay the initial proportion. There was the possibilty of the neighbours getting involved and escalating to an all out war with Irelands finest sitting in the middle.Another Congo type situation with the potential for a lot of body bags.
    Just visiting

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  38. #49
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamy Window View Post
    Can some explain to an ignorant sod like me why Chad "scared the crap out of" the political class in Ireland??
    All of a sudden they realised that the best goodwill in the world won't get 400 troops and their equipment accross sub-saharan africa without a tiny bit of logistical support. And that stuff costs money.
    In the past, we could display our good nature by hanging on the Logistical coat tails of other nations that have invested heavily in their military. It was proof, if it were needed, that even for pure peace enforcement roles, you need to invest in your military.

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  40. #50
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    All of a sudden they realised that the best goodwill in the world won't get 400 troops and their equipment accross sub-saharan africa without a tiny bit of logistical support. And that stuff costs money.
    In the past, we could display our good nature by hanging on the Logistical coat tails of other nations that have invested heavily in their military. It was proof, if it were needed, that even for pure peace enforcement roles, you need to invest in your military.
    And this launched the famed helicopter debate
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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