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Irish Naval Infantry/Marines?

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  • #46
    Epv???

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    • #47
      Originally posted by ropebag View Post
      it was expensive, it was potentially very dangerous indeed (and full credit to the units involved - they did a bloody good job at the arse end of nowhere in grim conditions), and it was politically controversal because it was portrayed by some as 'propping-up' a fairly unpleasent government who'se survival was an element of French African policy.
      Nicely put dude, you managed to make that sound like you were pitching your screenplay.

      Comment


      • #48
        Can some explain to an ignorant sod like me why Chad "scared the crap out of" the political class in Ireland
        Wasn't a UN mandate initially plus we had to pay the initial proportion. There was the possibilty of the neighbours getting involved and escalating to an all out war with Irelands finest sitting in the middle.Another Congo type situation with the potential for a lot of body bags.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Steamy Window View Post
          Can some explain to an ignorant sod like me why Chad "scared the crap out of" the political class in Ireland??
          All of a sudden they realised that the best goodwill in the world won't get 400 troops and their equipment accross sub-saharan africa without a tiny bit of logistical support. And that stuff costs money.
          In the past, we could display our good nature by hanging on the Logistical coat tails of other nations that have invested heavily in their military. It was proof, if it were needed, that even for pure peace enforcement roles, you need to invest in your military.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
            All of a sudden they realised that the best goodwill in the world won't get 400 troops and their equipment accross sub-saharan africa without a tiny bit of logistical support. And that stuff costs money.
            In the past, we could display our good nature by hanging on the Logistical coat tails of other nations that have invested heavily in their military. It was proof, if it were needed, that even for pure peace enforcement roles, you need to invest in your military.
            And this launched the famed helicopter debate
            I knew a simple soldier boy.....
            Who grinned at life in empty joy,
            Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
            And whistled early with the lark.

            In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
            With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
            He put a bullet through his brain.
            And no one spoke of him again.

            You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
            Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
            Sneak home and pray you'll never know
            The hell where youth and laughter go.

            Comment


            • #51
              On the question of whether or not ireland needs marines, given the size of the defence forces there is on need for a seprate service.

              As for the future role of the DF, there is a green paper going to be published later this year that will redefine the role of all three branches of the defence forces, which , I believe, will make a lot of changes to the role of the defence forces, restructuring the army more towards an overseas role.

              As for Chad, FG are very different from FF when it comes to involvement in Defence on a European level, so I'd expect changes, and the German battlegroup this year and its possible deployment if Syria or Libya get worse will pose intresting questions.

              Personally i think the DF will end up with an EPV and will be capable of carrying out Non combatant evacuations and other missions in places like west africa.
              Last edited by paul g; 25 April 2012, 15:00.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by paul g View Post
                ...FG are very different from FF...
                while i accept that this is entirely true with regards to what their 'gut' position is, they are in coalition with Labour - and when Labour appeared on the horizon, FG's election promise of scrapping the Triple lock got dropped like hot dogsh1t.

                if Labour have influence over the white paper, as well as influence over the budget/procurements and on deployments, then i don't see how the situation will change.
                Last edited by ropebag; 25 April 2012, 15:10.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                  as an island nation i do find it lacking that there are no dedicated Marines.

                  ireland can harness it's maritime history and develop a niche force to be reckoned with - even if only in defence.

                  who'd wanna fcuk with a load of big hairy irishmen well trained and armed to the teeth guarding vessels transiting through the Indian Ocean?

                  you could blaze a trail here and get on loads of exchanges with other Marines.

                  No women then?

                  I don't know if having extra capability isn't such a bad idea for defence, but neutrality is the best policy. The Swiss do it very well. I deplore conscription. UN missions are not necessary.
                  "Not merely peace for Americans but for peace for all men and women, not merely peace in our time but in all time." ~ John Kennedy World peace speech June 1963.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Notasoldier View Post
                    ...The Swiss do it very well...
                    they also have a defence budget around four times that of Irelands while being surrounded by the Alps, not having any natural resources and not having an internal (and external?) security problem.

                    if Ireland followed their model you'd probably have a defence budget of around €10bn...

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                      while i accept that this is entirely true with regards to what their 'gut' position is, they are in coalition with Labour - and when Labour appeared on the horizon, FG's election promise of scrapping the Triple lock got dropped like hot dogsh1t.

                      if Labour have influence over the white paper, as well as influence over the budget/procurements and on deployments, then i don't see how the situation will change.
                      .

                      Actually Europe will probably have more influence on the green and white paper processes, the state is still richer than at any point in its history, and we owe the Europeans.

                      As for missions like Liberia being less important, I'd disagree, West Africa and places like Libiera are actually very important to Ireland and Europe, most of Europe's cocaine comes via there, as do most of our asylum seekers, Nigeria ia an accident waiting to happen with Boko haram and i can think of a few other Naroc/Failed States there.

                      I think you'll find that the Green paper will be based around restructuring the DF to adapt to future threats by becoming more expeditionary with the EPV being key to the future development of the DF, and that it will be dressed up to placate the labour party.

                      Sacred cows like the reserve and unneeded barracks will go, New Zealand has only 1200 reservists and I'd say the same will happen here.
                      Last edited by paul g; 25 April 2012, 19:06.

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                      • #56
                        The same guff about too many bods tied up having unneeded barracks will be trotted out to kill off RDF cadre and other corps/units deemed unwanted in the new order.

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                        • #57
                          MOD: AHEM, this thread is about whether or not we should have marines. There are plenty of threads about the future of the RDF, DF, white paper etc. if you want to comment on that please use those threads

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                          • #58
                            Cheers for the replies lads
                            "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

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                            • #59
                              Is it a marine expeditionary unit you are looking for or a commando role/capability?

                              Canada did several cost benefit analysis on the creation and need for marines, starting out at a very modest 250 personnel but the project was canned for numerous reasons. There was quite a good literature review and comparison study included. A search of the library/google scholar should bring you to it.
                              "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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                              • #60
                                In Ireland though, would the cry from those damn crusties not drown out reasonable debate?
                                I knew a simple soldier boy.....
                                Who grinned at life in empty joy,
                                Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
                                And whistled early with the lark.

                                In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
                                With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
                                He put a bullet through his brain.
                                And no one spoke of him again.

                                You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
                                Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
                                Sneak home and pray you'll never know
                                The hell where youth and laughter go.

                                Comment

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