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  1. #101
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    The USMC got tied into Iraq and Afghanistan for over ten years but have now "pivoted" to the pacific region. MEUs out of Australia, Guam, Korea and Japan are doing 6-9 month show of force and amphibious warfare rotations every 18months.

    The USMC MAGTF organisational structure is one of the most innovative military force structures in the world. An entire Bn + has been designated a full time experimental unit in order to incorporate the latest in technology and learn new tactics with it. It is a self contained littoral waters military that can impose itself on any shore in the world in less than 16days. Something the US army, Airforce or Navy cannot do by itself.
    The USMC is far from a light force

  2. #102
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    The USMC is larger and better equipped in every field than our army, air corps and naval service. Let’s not limit options to zero or the Powerball lottery.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by expat01 View Post
    And it’s not even about calling them “marines”. Just designate a unit to train and maintain that capability.
    Naval Infantry.
    You want a small force that is capable of operating from a floating HQ, simple as. After that they need to be relatively self sufficient, with their floating hq gone back over the horizon.
    Don't get bogged down on USMC comparisons.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  4. #104
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  6. #105
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Naval Infantry.
    You want a small force that is capable of operating from a floating HQ, simple as. After that they need to be relatively self sufficient, with their floating hq gone back over the horizon.
    Don't get bogged down on USMC comparisons.
    that means all arms and a coy gp minimum

  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    that means all arms and a coy gp minimum
    Even better - it means you're talking about a dozen blokes from each Corps. They've probably got more than that off sick with cock rot...

  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Both the RM Commando and RM All Arms Commando Cses spend less than 2 weeks on amphibious warfare including exercises.
    While that is somewhat true, keep in mind that training is to get every man to a level capable of fighting and admining themselves in that environment.

    The commando units then train to operate on a platoon / company / regiment level each year and every year, which is the actual operating quantum at which they will operate. That unit level training is supported and enabled by the existence of Commando Logs Regiment, 539 Assault Squadron and 1 Assault Support Group Royal Marines, which need to be in place to get any unit training (and equipment trials) done. No point having men capable of thriving in an amphibious role but with no way to operate at anything bigger than a platoon.

    You can't just transfer men to a shell hierarchy of "naval infantry" without actually providing the enablers for their capability. May as well just **** a ton of LCVT at 7Bn and ask then to practice taking Howth a few times a year.

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    that means all arms and a coy gp minimum
    You say that like it's an impossibility. If we can have a mechanised infantry unit, why not a naval infantry unit? We can do it like we do everything else in the DF, our own unique way. Cavalry units without enough vehicles for everyone in the unit, Artillery regiments with only enough guns for half the batterys, Transport units without drivers.....etc.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  10. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    that means all arms and a coy gp minimum
    That means a reinforced battalion group minimum, including an artillery battery, combat engineers and vehicles.
    If implemented might be the only coherent, functional and deployable unit in the DF since the end of the Emergency.

    However, how about starting with a small-boat trained unit for assault and recce?
    After all, we have an air corps with no aircraft.

  11. #110
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    Remember the last time we tried to shoe horn Army/Air Corps personnel into a naval vessel and how it turned out .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  13. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Remember the last time we tried to shoe horn Army/Air Corps personnel into a naval vessel and how it turned out .
    Indeed. There are plenty of men in Navy uniforms who also make fine soldiers, should the fancy take them. Naval first, Infantry second.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  14. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Remember the last time we tried to shoe horn Army/Air Corps personnel into a naval vessel and how it turned out .
    How is it that pretty much every other western Army can operate quite happily on and from Naval vessels, but the Irish somehow can't?

    What's the problem - some genetic issue with seasickness or what?

  15. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    How is it that pretty much every other western Army can operate quite happily on and from Naval vessels, but the Irish somehow can't?

    What's the problem - some genetic issue with seasickness or what?
    We have and we can. There have been army medics aboard every vessel that went to the med as part of Op Pontus.
    Problem is the Army and Air Corpse brass are afraid that their people might see the Navy is the place to be and apply to transfer.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  17. #114
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    The knights of the sky would never leave the budgie club for a place where there is no chance of knocking off work at the end of the day.
    As for the army, if they saw themselves hitting the disco in white or tassels they'd have joined the cast of HMS Pinafore from the beginning.

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  19. #115
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    i recently saw a Air Corps officer in my local Super Value in his flight suit doing his grocery shopping with his wife , so quaint . Must have been on his way home from work . Kind of sums things up .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  21. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    We have and we can. There have been army medics aboard every vessel that went to the med as part of Op Pontus.
    Problem is the Army and Air Corpse brass are afraid that their people might see the Navy is the place to be and apply to transfer.
    As a Military exigency every National Force surrounded by water must have a capability to put troops ashore from a waterborne craft. It must be a sustained objective to provide that capability. Such a Force must be able to deploy independently and receive top-ups from it's MRV or continue unsupported until objectives are achieved.

  22. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The USMC is far from a light force
    No one said it was but you.

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  24. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post

    Both the RM Commando and RM All Arms Commando Cses spend less than 2 weeks on amphibious warfare including exercises.
    If you check the wide availability of Marine courses provided by RM Schools the Landing Craft Coxswains course is 14 weeks and is certified by examine. The Course is for Junior Officers. Training is much longer than you imply as two weeks on amphipious warfare courses is for those already trained in Marine operations. Junior Officers train for 15 months and recruits for close to a year.

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  26. #119
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    If you check the wide availability of Marine courses provided by RM Schools the Landing Craft Coxswains course is 14 weeks and is certified by examine. The Course is for Junior Officers. Training is much longer than you imply as two weeks on amphipious warfare courses is for those already trained in Marine operations. Junior Officers train for 15 months and recruits for close to a year.
    Your absolutely correct but of the 32 week RM Commando Course - less than 2 weeks is spent teaching & practicing amphibious warfare TTPs

  27. #120
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    I am assuming thereafter when assigned to an operational ship they are exercised frequently in boarding and landing until deemed proficient by ship's and unit's commands. Ship attachment could be as much as 6/9 months depending on circumstances in AOP's

  28. #121
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    As an operational unit would they have exercises. They are taught in basic training and it is built on.

    The teaching of the TTPs for the guys on the boats is as I say less than 2 weeks and that includes their final week long ex which probably totals less than a day of amphibious work. I comparsion the MOWAG Dismounts course is a week I think (maybe less).

    The LC3 Cse (the basic level of crewman is 14 weeks) are obviously longer as they are teaching how to be a crewman on a RHIB, LCVP and LCU, navigation, communications, RYA exams etc. On the 14 week LC2 and LC1, courses they are also teaching them to plan and lead landings etc.

  29. #122
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    I was worried that it was two weeks and finish. I spent nearly four years as a trainee before been let loose as a sole watchkeeper.

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  31. #123
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  32. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    I was worried that it was two weeks and finish. I spent nearly four years as a trainee before been let loose as a sole watchkeeper.
    The less than 2 weeks is teaching recruits and the equivalent of cadets how to embark/disembark, operate etc from RHIBs, LCVPs and LCUs

  33. #125
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    Defence reviews and" Value for money" are a way of reducing budgets and cutting numbers. The latter is a military chore forcing stress on those trying to keep shape and capability within formations and fleets. Discarding ships, closing barracks, moving families,losing jobs, changing schools. The UK galley radio is indicating that out of 6 destroyers and 13 frigates , only 4 are operational due to maintenance, training, crew shortages, lack of money.
    The larger Navy in the Gap is also showing signs of neglect. In WARSHIP magazine there is a picture of a Ticronderoga class cruiser looking unpainted, scruffy, heading out on operations. Her water line is reminiscent of a ship out of drydock for five or more years.

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