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  1. #1
    Philomath Itchy's Avatar
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    Tuskar Rock crash caused by collision - RAF man

    A retired British air force flying instructor claims that the 1968 Tuskar Rock Aer Lingus Viscount plane crash was caused by a collision with a French-built military aircraft which was training with the Air Corps.
    The aircraft struck each other accidentally while the Fouga Magister trainer was responding to a request to check the Viscount's undercarriage, RAF Squadron Leader Eric Evers maintains.
    All 61 people, including the four crew, on board the Aer Lingus Viscount Cork-London Heathrow flight died in the subsequent crash off Tuskar Rock, but the two pilots in the trainer survived by ejecting and parachuting to safety, he claims. Both the French and Irish authorities colluded in a subsequent cover-up, he says, and the Fouga Magister wreckage may still be on the seabed off Co Wexford.
    Squadron Leader Evers, who was chief flying instructor with the British military in Little Rissington, intends to present his evidence at a conference held by relatives of those who died in the air crash in Cobh, Co Cork, tomorrow. His claims will be disputed by Capt Mike Reynolds, retired sea captain and aviator and author of Tragedy at Tuskar Rock, published in 2003.
    Capt Reynolds upholds the findings of the 2002 official report by French and Australian experts which ruled out the possibility that the Viscount was hit by another aircraft or missile. The international study, on which he worked as Irish assistant, concluded that the cause may have been as a result of structural failure of the aircraft, corrosion, metal fatigue, "flutter" or bird strike.
    The study paid tribute to the two pilots, Capt Bernard O'Beirne and First Officer Paul Heffernan, for keeping the aircraft flying for 30 minutes after the "initial triggering factor".
    Speaking to The Irish Times yesterday, Squadron Leader Evers said the captain of the Viscount was faced with a minor and common problem - three red lights on his control panel indicating that the plane's undercarriage was unlocked.
    In the military, the problem was solved by slowing down, lowering the undercarriage and fully locking it again.
    Another option used in the military, which applied only if flying in formation, was to ask a pilot of an accompanying aircraft to drop down and check.
    Capt O'Beirne would have been aware that the Air Corps would have been flying on a Sunday morning from Baldonnel in west Dublin. A Fouga Magister model equipped with ejection seats - the only such model - was being used to train pilots at Baldonnel at the time, Squadron Leader Evers says.
    A Defence Forces spokesman described the claims as "spurious" and said there was no evidence that an Air Corps plane was in the vicinity at the time.
    The spokesman said that Fouga Magisters did not "come into service" with the Air Corps until 1976. He could not comment on why a Fouga Magister was listed as one of the Air Corps aircraft in service in 1968, as stated in appendix 5.2.g of the 2002 report.
    © 2007 The Irish Times

    http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ire...528406125.html
    Sex - Breakfast of Champions!

  2. #2
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Viscount

    Given that the Aer Corps actaully began operating CM 170s in 1975 and not 1976 ..I really doubt this mans claims......in that time the T.55 vampires were still in service with no intended replacement.

    The only possible airborne vehicle that the Viscount could have hit was the target vehicle..a Jindivik..but seeing as the only only anti aircraft Frigate in the area HMS Penelope...admittedly on AA trials in the area at the time but was actually tied up on the day of the incident...hardly likely.

    There were reports of a dayglo marked aircraft seen in the vicinity...but unfortuneately no wreckage was ever found to prove this.

    I was always a subscriber to the second aircraft theory...but it certainly wasn't a CM170...nor a Jindivik..the only other possibility was a Gloster Meteor trials Aircraft...and all in service at the time available for trials were accounted for.

    I'm am now a firm beliver that the goverenmant at the time ....because of Naval and avaiation inadequacies at the the time added fuel to the rumour that..forces from the" ould enemy" might be involved and contrived to a cover up..to divert attention from what could be seen as criminal negliegence on behalf of state bodies.
    Time for another break I think......

  3. #3
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I thought No Fouga was ever fitted with Ejector seats.

  4. #4
    Brigadier General
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    I don't know for sure myself, but I believe the Fouga is too small to carry ejector seats, the proposed, but never built Fouga 90 was supposed to be fitted with ejector seats as far as I can remember.
    Perhaps Tony Kearns, can shed some light on this mystery Fouga......


    I think this RAF ossifer is talking through his exhaust pipe.....
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

  5. #5
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    The important part about the Fouga is the statement "equipped with ejection seats - the only such model".

    The Germans did experiment with putting Ejection seats in the Magister, I'm not sure if the French did until at least the Fouga 90, which was basically a new aircraft.

    I find the Defense Forces response odd because the way I read the claims of this man, it was a French Magister involved in the collision, not an Irish Air Corps one. So, what we have is the Defence Forces appearing to answer a question, but in actuality avoiding it.

    On the other hand the idea of this French pilot "training" Irish Air Corps crew, on an aircraft they didn't operate, is quite bizarre. In my eyes it's far more likely that any such Fouga aircraft involved was on a was a simple marketing visit.

    But even if we take such a leap... is the collision likely? I find it very hard to believe, the whole thing sounds quite nonsensical. Leaving the Fouga Magisters tiny range out of the equation - If the pilot was just worried about the undercarriage situation, I would think the normal course of action involves flying over the airport and getting a visual report back from the tower. Simple.

    There are many things I find highly questionable about this mans claims. If he is found to be firmly talking through his buttocks, I'd like to think he'd be open to prosecution for waisting peoples time and adding to the distress of the families involved.

    Also: The dayglow aircraft seen in the vicinity is thought to have been an Air Corps DH Dove which came to the scene an hour or so after the crash, at least in some of the visual sightings.
    Last edited by pym; 24th March 2007 at 11:32.

  6. #6
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    All very relevant and educated opinions..far more it would seem than the man try to muck rake.
    Time for another break I think......

  7. #7
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    Hi all
    The Israelis might have modded their Fougas (Tzikit) with ejection seats as they did a lot of other mods to bring them up to date.There was only one Fouga 90 built.The French naval Fouga, the CM 175 Zephyr, might have had them,too, as it was very much modified to suit naval ops.
    There's bound to be someone out there who'd remember a Fouga visit in the late Sixties.No visitor ever went unphotographed.
    regards
    GttC

  8. #8
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Good letter in todays Times
    from Air investigation crowd

    basically it says the RAF lad hasnt a clue what he is talking about

    No need to read the letter - just paste and cut from a few posts from here

    and its practically word for word

    Well done to the boys who posted the relevant replies
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  9. #9
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Great minds think alike
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  10. #10
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    I think Jurgen Whyte's reply tells all. The first visit by a Fouga Magister to Baldonnel was the French Air Force Magister F-TFTR flown by Col. Perrotte who was Air Attache in London. The date was 21 March 1974. He subsequently made a further nine trips to Baldonnel over the following two years. It did not have an ejector seat. The next Fouga visitor was G-Fuga to one of the Air Shows.
    Another load of useless information!
    Tony K

  11. #11
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Jurgen is a former Air Corps Pilot himself.

  12. #12
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Great name

    are you sure he wasnt Luftwaffe tte
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  13. #13
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Yup..I rememeber him flying dauphins from the L.E Eithne;
    Time for another break I think......

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Jurgen is a former Air Corps Pilot himself.
    And a good one too, DSM.
    Found a slide of the French Magister
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    are they vampires in the background or what
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    are they vampires in the background or what
    Yep, Vampires they are, picture taken at family day 1975.
    Tony K

  17. #17
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    well spotted me
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  18. #18
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    "The Germans installed the Martin-Baker GZ-4 ejection seat in three aircrafts, but abandoned the idea, otherwise the aircraft is without "hot seats".".......I still can't find if the Fouga 90 was equiped witha bang seat..but it doesn't really matter.

    score another one for IMO versus the press.
    Time for another break I think......

  19. #19
    Private 2* romeo43's Avatar
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    the potez 94 prototype was fitted with ejection seats as was the fouga 90 with re designed canopy similar to that of the alpha jet, neither went into production.....

  20. #20
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    Yeah, it was the bit where the departing pilot gets his lower limbs cut off by the instrument panel that mighta done it.that's get your attention.
    regards
    GttC

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Yup..I rememeber him flying dauphins from the L.E Eithne;
    I remember him as a pilot of an Allouette while involved in a Mountain Rescue exercise in Glendalough, around 1980. I was a civilian then, but I do have a photo of him flying!

  22. #22
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    ejector seat Fougas in Ireland?

    ... from the EADS website:

    "In 1963, the model "Super Magister" was constructed. This aircraft, also known as CM.173, had strong engines, a new fuselage and ejector seat. 137 copies were constructed between 1963 and 1968 and flown in France, Ireland and Lebanon."

  23. #23
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carrington View Post
    ... from the EADS website:

    "In 1963, the model "Super Magister" was constructed. This aircraft, also known as CM.173, had strong engines, a new fuselage and ejector seat. 137 copies were constructed between 1963 and 1968 and flown in France, Ireland and Lebanon."

    Link?

  24. #24
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    That wing commander just posted a letter in todays Irish Times

    giving his version

    weeeeoooooooo weeoooooo and such like are the noises he

    must be hearing in his head
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  25. #25
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    link

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Link?
    http://www.eads.net/1024/en/eads/his...ouga_1950.html

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