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Cessna Replacement - The Options

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  • Originally posted by pym View Post
    I still think the EU wielding a big stick and demanding baseline capabilities from all member states is the best hope of an adequately equipped DF.
    Not gonna happen - the Irish Neutrality(TM) opt out to Art.42 strikes ehre sadly.

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    • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
      Not gonna happen - the Irish Neutrality(TM) opt out to Art.42 strikes ehre sadly.
      An opt out of mutual defense is one thing; not being allowed opt in to certain programs, groups, etc. in the first place, because we're unable or unwilling to provide the equipment necessary.... that's something else entirely.

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      • Having been in the Don, working on the King Air and Casas, including going on air ambulance missions in both types, I'd have a certain amount of direct experience. For a start, the Casa's pressurisation system is a low-pressure one because of the ramp so it can't fly as high as an aircraft like an ATR (it's cabin altitude won't go as high) so air ambulances were carried out as lower levels than even a King Air would fly to. Also, in two of the cases that I flew on, both patients were respiratory patients, so we didn't get very high at all. I doubt if we even got above 14,000 feet and that was direct to Heathrow, after 2 am...apart from that, the Don has routinely used helicopters to fly AA missions all the way to the UK, much lower and slower than a King Air and not a whiff of pressurisation...... Both aircraft spent huge amounts of time on VIP flights and the King Air was eventually taken off all other duties and did VIP for virtually all of it's final years, despite being formally tasked for utility after the Casas arrived. We are all well aware of the Casas being used for such VIP acts as transporting a Minister to open an off-license.......as for surveillance, a significant amount of that requires that the human or camera or thermal eye to see the target and given the vagaries of Irish weather, that will demand a lot of low altitude flight under the cloudbase. That's going to be sporty for the aircrew. I've flown in enough bad weather to understand. I certainly appreciate the provision of good crew comfort, be it pressurisation and decent seats and anything else they might reasonably fit in, given how spartan the Defender and Cessnas are. I'm quite sure the Defender crews would give a testicle for a better aircraft to fly in. What gets me is that it appears that the arrow is being pointed at the PC-12, from what I've heard, unofficially and that the Cessna was the token other candidate and has been for a long time.

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        • Originally posted by Charlie252 View Post
          Total fantasy Land if you really believe the Pressurisation system requirement is for anything to do with ManPads.
          Could not agree more, if MANPADS are an issue then the aircraft needs MWR and flares much more than it needs pressurisation.
          As for tactics it is usually better to fly low and fast if it is only MANPAD'S and no AA guns. Reaction time does not allow a lock.

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          • The problem with the AC trying to do civil roles is that often the public see it different. Ministers using AC aircraft to fly around does not improve the public image. The AC once had a high standing when it was the sole provider of SAR and air ambulance. But since the Coast Guard got their helis people are confuse as too why we need the two organisations doing similar things. I know the difference but most people not on here do not.
            When we look at where the DF have the highest level of public support it is overseas either on Peacekeeping or rescue missions. Thus it should be for these missions the AC should be getting new equipment not for a high speed Sportscar for use on our small island.

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            • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
              Could not agree more, if MANPADS are an issue then the aircraft needs MWR and flares much more than it needs pressurisation.
              As for tactics it is usually better to fly low and fast if it is only MANPAD'S and no AA guns. Reaction time does not allow a lock.
              You don't need either if you fly above the range of them.They can't hit the target.
              To get to southern Mali(where EUTM are based)you need to overfly Northern Mali(Where the bad guys are).These people may or may not have MANPADS.They may or may not use them.They DON'T have F-16's or Migs. So you fly higher than anything they can hit you with.Logical no?
              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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              • Originally posted by apod View Post
                You don't need either if you fly above the range of them.They can't hit the target.
                To get to southern Mali(where EUTM are based)you need to overfly Northern Mali(Where the bad guys are).These people may or may not have MANPADS.They may or may not use them.They DON'T have F-16's or Migs. So you fly higher than anything they can hit you with.Logical no?
                If its a Cessna "replacement" then the C-206 is the most logical choice, if its an ISTAR aircraft then the Caravan is the most Logical Choice, if it is for Medevac from Africa then the LR-45 is the most Logical Choice.

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                • Just seen that Pilatus have a new brochure on their PC12 Spectre variant for ISTSR/utility etc.
                  I may be warming to the option especially when you see the costs they quote.
                  http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/00-d...12-Spectre.pdf

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                  • The PC-12 is a great aircraft and is provided sterling service to the Royal Flying Doctor Service. They are one of the most savvy operators out there with a fleet of 66 aircraft and do solid due diligence on what they buy. The Flying Doctors have ordered the new bigger brother the PC-24 to replace some of their older KingAirs. The PC-24 will I believe make inroads into the Beechcraft B350-CER and light-medium business jet market.



                    When it comes time for the Air Corps to replace the Lear 45 the PC-24 should offer a compelling capability. With the IAC operating the PC-9M and PC-12 – 2 or 3 PC-24’s in the fleet could leverage the support relationship between the IAC and Pilatus to each others advantage per single supplier efficiency and cost control. Pilatus has plans to cross-deck the Sceptre NG mission suite into the PC-24. This would enable the Air Corp to swing roles between MATS and provide depth to the CASA capabilities and offer Medevac and small light tactical loads even onto low CBR runways such as grass strips.

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                    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                      Just seen that Pilatus have a new brochure on their PC12 Spectre variant for ISTSR/utility etc.
                      I may be warming to the option especially when you see the costs they quote.
                      http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/00-d...12-Spectre.pdf
                      Insert generic comment about parachuting with copious mentions of "the don" to boost your case for a Cessna caravan.

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                      • Originally posted by Chuck View Post
                        Insert generic comment about parachuting with copious mentions of "the don" to boost your case for a Cessna caravan.
                        Can you please let me know what junk you have being Smoking?

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                        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                          Can you please let me know what junk you have being Smoking?
                          No junk. I was referring to some of the conjecture I've read here regarding the debate between the caravan and PC-12.

                          I happen to think the PC-12, if chosen, will be a pretty good choice in the long run.

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                          • Any news on the completion of the RFT process, or how it's going?

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                            • Originally posted by meridian View Post
                              Any news on the completion of the RFT process, or how it's going?
                              I doubt those who are privvy to the ongoing tender process are going to be sharing sensitive commercial information in the public domain at this stage.

                              The best you'll do is have someone post about a visiting aircraft but seeing as a Caravan/PC-12/TBM have all been in Baldonnel in the last 12-18 months, its unlikely any of them will visit again.

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                              • I was told in no uncertain terms [not from Bal'] that it's the PC-12, time will tell....
                                "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                                Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                                Illegitimi non carborundum

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