Don't take anything the Canadians do as a procurement benchmark. They have form when it comes to buying one-off orphan variants. For example the one of a kind EH101 Cormorant for SAR or the hugely troubled H92 that was selected over the widely produced Seahawk Romeo. Both the Canadian and Irish DoD could write a book on how not to do it.
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Cessna Replacement - The Options
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Originally posted by Jetjock View PostDon't take anything the Canadians do as a procurement benchmark. They have form when it comes to buying one-off orphan variants. For example the one of a kind EH101 Cormorant for SAR or the hugely troubled H92 that was selected over the widely produced Seahawk Romeo. Both the Canadian and Irish DoD could write a book on how not to do it.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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Originally posted by na grohmità View PostIt is amazing that in replacing a single older type in service, the CH124 Sea King, both of its replacements, the Cormorant and Cyclone, have become huge debacles. How is that possible? Given that the standard variants of both types have replaced the S61 around the world without issue.
Having dragged more years out f the Sea King fleet they then proceeded to run a competition for an ASW heli replacement. You would be forgiven for rightly thinking that for commonality alone the EH101 would have been a shoe-in. The Canucks had other ideas. They decided to order a ship-borne ASW variant of a helicopter(S92) that while established in production, had never before been ordered for either Ship-borne or ASW roles anywhere or by anyone. Various delays and design flaws ensued. It took 7 years from first flight to delivery of a watered down interim fleet one quarter the size of the total order. Sikorsky will never make a profit from the sale. Problems are still being uncovered-the latest fleet grounding was in March and as we approach 10 years after the first delivery was scheduled to take place full operational capacity still seems like a pipe dream.
The Candaian Bell 412 fleet are also known to be lemons. Under-powered and useless above 20 degrees Celcius and 3000' pressure altitude.
A lot of their problems stem from the insistence on direct local manufacturing involvement. Whether that be components or assembly. You end up with too many alterations that prioritize industry over capability. You can see a similar trend in the UK at the moment.
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Originally posted by Jetjock View PostA lot of their problems stem from the insistence on direct local manufacturing involvement. Whether that be components or assembly. You end up with too many alterations that prioritize industry over capability. You can see a similar trend in the UK at the moment.
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Too true. Never buy the Mark 1 of anything, be it a boot or a boat or a complex aircraft and do not ever, ever customise it unless your changes improve the breed. The most successful aircraft the Don ever had were the ones they did the least tampering with. Also, don't do a "Dauphin" or a "Casa" and let a small air arm become the unofficial test house for a wealthy manufacturer, so that you have chronic unserviceability as a given. Wait until bigger militaries, based on big economies, have done the hard yards with new types of anything.
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We are talking about replaced a Cessna with Mark 1 dual eye sensors and all for a budget of 15m. Given that we are not going to deploy them to a shooting war, even a Peacekeeping mission is unlikely we need not worry about MANPAD's. Despite what the rfp might say I would go for the Diamond DA62MPP, at just over 1m for the aircraft we could get a few with decent kit for our money.http://www.diamond-air.at/en/special...raft/da62-mpp/
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostWe are talking about replaced a Cessna with Mark 1 dual eye sensors and all for a budget of 15m. Given that we are not going to deploy them to a shooting war, even a Peacekeeping mission is unlikely we need not worry about MANPAD's. Despite what the rfp might say I would go for the Diamond DA62MPP, at just over 1m for the aircraft we could get a few with decent kit for our money.http://www.diamond-air.at/en/special...raft/da62-mpp/
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Forget the hope about multiple a/c they rarely can do what a dedicated plane can do. And how was the Cessna multirole? We should stop trying to play in the big league when we have no budget to match. We could replace the Cessna's with 4 DA62's and still have money over to buy a decent secondhand utility for air Ambulance etc.
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostForget the hope about multiple a/c they rarely can do what a dedicated plane can do. And how was the Cessna multirole? We should stop trying to play in the big league when we have no budget to match. We could replace the Cessna's with 4 DA62's and still have money over to buy a decent secondhand utility for air Ambulance etc.
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The Cessnas did every task the Alouette did, apart from the obvious rotary stuff like SAR and infantry dropping; surveillance, ATCP (bird counting, fish counting, aerial survey, Garda co-op), parachuting, air displays, light transport of humans and spare parts, pilot currency and target towing. As a utility aircraft, it has been invaluable. Me and my spare parts and/or toolbox went on several runs in it, to get parts up to Finner or Sligo or down to Cork or Kerry and considerably cheaper than an Alouette. I certainly wasn't the only one to do runs like that in them. That's one cheap function that a PC-12 can't do, unless the runway is a good one. A Cessna can get into places that even those turbine aircraft can't or won't, for a fraction of the cost of using a turbine helicopter....as an aside, they really should have had a 182 or a 206, as well. They are real haulers and even better parachuting aircraft.
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What will replace the initial pilot trainer? surely every pilot currently serving pilot began their wings journey in a cessna.... civilian contracting possibly for initial training?Last edited by morpheus; 29 May 2017, 12:20."He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
"No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."
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