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Cessna Replacement - The Options

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  • Thanks Jetjock, your correct, my oops!

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    • C252, wash your mouth out with Army soap. I managed to claw my way up to 11,000 feet in a tatty old 182, to throw meatbombs out,so FLs on 1013 were routine.

      regards
      GttC

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      • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
        C252, wash your mouth out with Army soap. I managed to claw my way up to 11,000 feet in a tatty old 182, to throw meatbombs out,so FLs on 1013 were routine.

        regards
        GttC
        Routine might be an exaggeration, where I live the Trans Alt is 13000ft so you can forgive my scepticism..

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        • Originally posted by Charlie252 View Post
          Routine might be an exaggeration, where I live the Trans Alt is 13000ft so you can forgive my scepticism..
          Where the IAC Cessnas live it's usually around 6000' so routine might just be the most accurate word there is.

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          • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
            I managed to claw my way up to 11,000 feet in a tatty old 182, to throw meatbombs out..

            regards
            GttC
            I once took that tatty old 182 to Waterford for a 50 hour check where it was described as "agricultural"!

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            • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
              Where the IAC Cessnas live it's usually around 6000' so routine might just be the most accurate word there is.
              I Know its all OPSEC, but, I don't think 6000ft is the routine alt for most C-172 ops, except for Para ops most flights are around 1000ft.. I know its splitting hairs but these machines aren't cruising around in the flight levels for any practical purposes..

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              • Originally posted by Charlie252 View Post
                I Know its all OPSEC, but, I don't think 6000ft is the routine alt for most C-172 ops, except for Para ops most flights are around 1000ft.. I know its splitting hairs but these machines aren't cruising around in the flight levels for any practical purposes..
                I certainly wouldnt be taking even an IFR equipped 172 to anything like 6000ft in Ireland except on the clearest of days given the freezing level is usually quite low for much of the year. But 6000ft plus in a 172 would not be a most preposterous proposition as you implied in your response to Goldie and as you correctly say, for most roles that type of profile would not fit the mission. Even the para ops have gone over to rotary these days.

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                • Well the low freezing level will affect the 139's also. Don't imagine there is too much parachuting this time of the year tho.
                  Overland at night must be sporty having to stay clear of cloud, guess that's where the NVG's earn their keep.

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                  • Ah, JJ, don't you know that Irish dropzones have year-round magical blue holes over them at all times??..........most days are VFR in Ireland but it depends on how far you are prepared to push it........How do NVGs give an advantage with regard to weather?
                    regards
                    GttC

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                    • The reference to the freezing level was not made in relation to parachute ops, more in relation to en route transit on other mission types. God knows I've done enough diver driving through the gaps to keep the self offloading freight happy to do me a lifetime. I'd never incriminate myself and admit to doing anything like a GPS spot while VFR on top though!

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                      • So back on topic here's a list of candidates. I have split the list between single and twin engine aircraft. The only criteria I have applied is to provide an enhancement in capability over the legacy FR172 and for fuel type to be Jet A1. I have discounted the PC6 for its tail dragger configuration and also the PC12 and Socata TBM for being pressurised corporate transport with little role flexibility.

                        Single Engine:

                        Quest Kodiak ($1.7m)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_Kodiak

                        Cessna Caravan($2.1m) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_208

                        PAC 750 XL($1.9m)
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAC_750XL

                        Gippsland GA10 (price unknown) http://www.gippsaero.com/aircraft/ga10.aspx

                        Twin Engine

                        DA42/DA42 MPP (price unknown)
                        http://www.diamond-sensing.com/index...a42mppguardian

                        Vulcanair AP68TP (price unknown)
                        http://www.vulcanair.com/userfiles/f...2023-06-11.pdf

                        Defender 4000
                        http://www.army-technology.com/projects/defender-4000/

                        Thoughts?

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                        • JJ, we'll plead the Fifth on that one;-)
                          regards
                          GttC

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                          • The Caravan wins for me, based on being part of the Cessna spares network, being easily available in large numbers, being the most numerous, having the largest load-lifting capacity, having the proven means to fit pylons, having the proven means to fit a load belly pod, being easily changed out for reroling. It also has the greatest corporate knowledge of flying and maintenance, compared to the other contenders; ie, there is no shortage of Caravan-qualified personnel or third-party companies providing support services, such as spares, crew and engineering training. There probably isn't a country in Europe that doesn't have Caravans operating in it, with the possible exception of the Vatican! The Kodiak is next because it is in relatively large scale production and is in this hemisphere, so spares and support are only a short airline flight away. The PAC 750 and Airvan are also good platforms but are in comparatively small scale production and the Airvan has the smallest engine and they are on the other side of the world.

                            regards
                            GttC

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                            • It was mentioned here that the avionics fit of the AW139 was one of the reasons it won against the Blackhawk - the AC wanted a modern glass cockpit.

                              Is it likely to have any bearing on this selection?

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                              • Will be set out in the tender terms.

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