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  1. #926
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  2. #927
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    if you keep yanking mission modules out, willy-nilly, then you will break things and affect availability for the mission, so if your customer is the Gardai or the ARW, then they won't be happy, so you will have to achieve a compromise between ISTAR mission needs and basic cargo needs. Imagine if one aircraft is dedicated to the ARW, for example. On Monday, they task it with an ISTAR duty, so it's away on ops all day. For Wednesday, they want to do a four man para drop with full kit. Back it goes to Bal to have everything ripped out, allegedly in four hours but nearer to eight, so by Wed am, it's ready for para work. Mission gets cancelled due weather so ARW want it back in ISTAR fit for Saturday. Back into the shed...you see how it goes and how the customer starts to get very pissed off and starts blaming the Don...The Casas had to do a lot of this to-ing and fro-ing to achieve their mission list, in my time and well after, so you can easily absorb three airframes, especially if you expect it to do every job under the sun.

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  4. #928
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    A short article about Afghanistan uses the PC12 (apologies if it's been posted before)

    https://www.stripes.com/news/small-s...8#.WSBghlA1jqB

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  6. #929
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    how many birds is the tender for? 3?

  7. #930
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    how many birds is the tender for? 3?

    3 plus a possible GASU aircraft

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  9. #931
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    Thanks! GASU?

  10. #932
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Thanks! GASU?
    Garda Air Support Unit (they had a RFI to replace their Defender)

  11. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Garda Air Support Unit (they had a RFI to replace their Defender)
    For that I can actually see a single engine bird. Still not happy about the Air Corps getting a single engine one.

  12. #934
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Whats the bets someone in gov tries to sell these to joe public as a replacement for Cessna AND CASA
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  14. #935
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    Whats the bets someone in gov tries to sell these to joe public as a replacement for Cessna AND CASA

    Doubt it

  15. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Doubt it
    me too - FG seem to be quite keen on defence

  16. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    Whats the bets someone in gov tries to sell these to joe public as a replacement for Cessna AND CASA
    Fortunately that will not be the case, the two Casa's will be replaced by three aircraft at €50 million each.

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  18. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    Fortunately that will not be the case, the two Casa's will be replaced by three aircraft at €50 million each.

  19. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    Fortunately that will not be the case, the two Casa's will be replaced by three aircraft at €50 million each.
    3 MC-27J? In favour :o)

  20. #940
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    For what it's worth, the Canadians selected the C-295W for their long range SAR replacement.

    16 for CAD $2.3 Billion = $143,750,000 per aircraft = €95,097,697 per aircraft.

    Apparently the bare C-295W transport version runs at about €32,000,000 a pop. Stick a radar, FLIR and other systems on board and you'll be nudging €50M at least.

    God knows what the Canadians have stuck on theirs.
    Last edited by pym; 25th May 2017 at 23:07.

  21. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    For what it's worth, the Canadians selected the C-295W for their long range SAR replacement.

    16 for CAD $2.3 Billion = $143,750,000 per aircraft = €95,097,697 per aircraft.

    Apparently the bare C-295W transport version runs at about €32,000,000 a pop. Stick a radar, FLIR and other systems on board and you'll be nudging €50M at least.

    God knows what the Canadians have stuck on theirs.
    Would they need to make any changes for Canadian Winter operations? If not it does seem to be a massive jump in price tags, though I suppose that might include the whole "support/spares" element as well...

  22. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Would they need to make any changes for Canadian Winter operations? If not it does seem to be a massive jump in price tags, though I suppose that might include the whole "support/spares" element as well...
    That's the odd thing...

    The announcement, which includes an option for a 20-year maintenance contract that would increase the price-tag to $4.7 billion, has been a long time coming.
    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...3-billion.html

    Maybe they're integrating some specific, expensive, Canadian equipment. But again, these are SAR birds presumably not going to be wired for six hardpoints like the C-295 Persuader MPA is...

  23. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    That's the odd thing...


    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...3-billion.html

    Maybe they're integrating some specific, expensive, Canadian equipment. But again, these are SAR birds presumably not going to be wired for six hardpoints like the C-295 Persuader MPA is...
    If their first delivery is 2 years away, wouldnt we want to be ordering ours now....

  24. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by restless View Post
    If their first delivery is 2 years away, wouldnt we want to be ordering ours now....
    Could that have anything to do with they setting up offsets in Canada?

  25. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Could that have anything to do with they setting up offsets in Canada?
    I doubt if building a simulator or two and a few more bits and pieces would create that many canadian jobs, its just political fudge to keep voters happy

  26. #946
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    Don't take anything the Canadians do as a procurement benchmark. They have form when it comes to buying one-off orphan variants. For example the one of a kind EH101 Cormorant for SAR or the hugely troubled H92 that was selected over the widely produced Seahawk Romeo. Both the Canadian and Irish DoD could write a book on how not to do it.

  27. #947
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    ...and those submarines that had a fire problem...

  28. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    ...and those submarines that had a fire problem...
    That's only the start of the issues those subs had, along with the debacle of their surface replacement program.

  29. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    Don't take anything the Canadians do as a procurement benchmark. They have form when it comes to buying one-off orphan variants. For example the one of a kind EH101 Cormorant for SAR or the hugely troubled H92 that was selected over the widely produced Seahawk Romeo. Both the Canadian and Irish DoD could write a book on how not to do it.
    It is amazing that in replacing a single older type in service, the CH124 Sea King, both of its replacements, the Cormorant and Cyclone, have become huge debacles. How is that possible? Given that the standard variants of both types have replaced the S61 around the world without issue.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  31. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    It is amazing that in replacing a single older type in service, the CH124 Sea King, both of its replacements, the Cormorant and Cyclone, have become huge debacles. How is that possible? Given that the standard variants of both types have replaced the S61 around the world without issue.
    The original plan in Canada was to manufacture 100 or so EH101's in-country to replace the Sea King and Labrador(Boeing Vertol) fleet. An order was placed in the 80's but was subsequently cancelled. In the late 90's 15 basic de-militarized EH101 models with COTS avionics were procured to cover the SAR role. There were rumours of various teething problems including fuel lines leaking and more worryingly the also suffered from chronic tail rotor hub cracking leading to a withdrawal from the SAR role temporarily. The hubs were replaced and the replacements cracked in a different location. The problem was solved using a rotor hub derived from the AW139. They are very unique in their role, fit out and operating environment and will inevitably have high lifetime costs, irrespective of whether or not they perform well a their role. Undeterred, the Canadians have acquired the VH models from the US that were built as Marine One replacements and cancelled due to cost overrun-there are rumours of converting some to airworthy status and cannibalizing the rest.

    Having dragged more years out f the Sea King fleet they then proceeded to run a competition for an ASW heli replacement. You would be forgiven for rightly thinking that for commonality alone the EH101 would have been a shoe-in. The Canucks had other ideas. They decided to order a ship-borne ASW variant of a helicopter(S92) that while established in production, had never before been ordered for either Ship-borne or ASW roles anywhere or by anyone. Various delays and design flaws ensued. It took 7 years from first flight to delivery of a watered down interim fleet one quarter the size of the total order. Sikorsky will never make a profit from the sale. Problems are still being uncovered-the latest fleet grounding was in March and as we approach 10 years after the first delivery was scheduled to take place full operational capacity still seems like a pipe dream.

    The Candaian Bell 412 fleet are also known to be lemons. Under-powered and useless above 20 degrees Celcius and 3000' pressure altitude.

    A lot of their problems stem from the insistence on direct local manufacturing involvement. Whether that be components or assembly. You end up with too many alterations that prioritize industry over capability. You can see a similar trend in the UK at the moment.

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