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Cessna Replacement - The Options

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  • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
    If the DoD is known for anything, quick decisions is not one of them.
    Not if it saves money
    Eg barracks closures

    Comment


    • That was not a quick decision. Everyone knew they were coming for years before.
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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      • I'm talking about the last 2 rounds where everyone found out on the news

        They weren't earmarked or anything but would have been vunerable

        Comment


        • I know what you are talking about. These were earmarked for years. The Announcement was sudden.
          In the South, Either Sarsfields, Kickham or Stephens barracks were going to go. They were small barracks that forced a unit to split.
          In the west, Castlebar had struggled to justify its existence for years, being nowhere near the border, and too far from the other permanently occupied posts.
          Cavan was the last remainder of a barracks whose sole purpose was to support troops on the border. The Border no longer required these troops and if it did, Finner and Dundalk were still there, with full compliment units.
          As for Mullingar.. Located between Dublin and Athlone, and much too close to athlone.
          The only thing that surprised me was that Tralee remained.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

          Comment


          • To be honest I do not know how much impact the ending of CIT work will effect the replacement of the Cessanas, if at all, the Cessanas having being bought before CIT became a factor, it does leave an opening for the bean counters to remove more money being used for defence so it can be wasted elsewhere..
            "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
            Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
            Illegitimi non carborundum

            Comment


            • More significantly then any discussion about Cessna replacement, if the Cessna hours plummet rapidly, are AC going to have to have a re-think on cadet career progress? And pilot numbers? Where are new pilots going to build some hours?

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              • I'm not sure they will be replaced.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                • Either Sarsfields
                  Thats SARSFIELD not Sarsfields Bks. Almost as bad as how all the 4 BN exers refer to it as "Limerick Bks".
                  "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                  Comment


                  • To be fair, Collins barracks is forever known in cork as "Collins's.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                    • AC Annual Report 2013:

                      CIT Escorts (not necessarily all Cessna's)
                      314 missions
                      936 hrs

                      ATCA
                      42 missions
                      129 hrs

                      Air Ambulance/SAR/Maritime Patrol/MATS
                      N/a

                      Don't think that will justify replacement

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                      • Perhaps the money could be spent on more helicopters for additional airlift for the Army.
                        What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ODIN View Post
                          Perhaps the money could be spent on more helicopters for additional airlift for the Army.
                          The existing fleet should be able to take up the slack in fairness

                          Spend the money on training and retaining pilots and increasing flying hours (and probably changing work practices)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            The existing fleet should be able to take up the slack in fairness

                            Spend the money on training and retaining pilots and increasing flying hours (and probably changing work practices)
                            1. How many of the 779 in the Air Corps are pilots?
                            2. There are 18 air frames, once the Cessnas are excluded, and if I remember correctly, either the Learjet or Gulfstream are due to go too, leaving 17. It looks like the Cessnas are among the busiest, with them gone, is there enough time for all those pilots to stay current?
                            3. In total, we have 15 Squadrons, and 18(17) aircraft, seems a bit mad, what savings could be made there I wonder?
                            What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                            Comment


                            • There are 112 Lt/Capt/Comdts in the AC (strength), not all of them are in flying appointments (or even qualified pilots).

                              The GIV could be taken out of service at next unscheduled maintenance (I think was the phrased used).

                              Maybe/maybe not, I think I may have seen in a Voxpop in An Cosantoir that there are something like 10 pilots in the Cessna squadron. With the aircraft gone, the squadron would be effectively gone, therefore type train them on Learjet/GIV/CASA and you have a larger pool of pilots for air ambulance & SAR topcover. Alternatively, retrain some as rotary wing and you have a larger pool for EAS/air ambulance etc on the 135/139.

                              I was actually talking about how they do things etc but a reorganise would be required of at least 1 squadron.

                              But it does take a lot of personnel to run and secure an aerodrome 24/7/365, fly and maintain aircraft 24/7/365, on call/unscheduled 24/7/365. Plus the military side.

                              Safety, Police, maintenance (1st, 2nd and in some cases 3rd line), fuel, spares, avionics maintenance, CIS/Comms, security, normal admin/logs, transport, medics, ATC, crash rescue, ground training (flying-, tech- or military- related)

                              And that is before you put an aircraft in the air

                              Don't forget you running a small quiet airport (but it's 24/7), a small quiet airline (but it's unscheduled flying with 24/7 availability (some ops being immediate availability)) and a small college.


                              Are there efficiencies to be found? I have no doubt but...

                              Comment


                              • Even with CIT's suspended there is still a need for fixed wing light utility aircraft for the other Army support, escort, ground surveillance, surveying, target towing, ATCP and ATCA roles currently carried out by the Cessna's.
                                Replacement multi-role and modular aircraft capable of 24 hour flight in all weathers could be used in more roles such as personnel and equipment transport, air ambulance, MATS, parachuting, maritime patrol, SAR etc and take some of the workload of the heli fleet.
                                Many of the tasking's that are normally carried out by the Cessna's have been taken on by the heli's over this last two years as the Cessna's workload has rapidly increased as a result of barrack closers.
                                Any replacement is still going to be years away and the future of the GIV is going to priority.

                                Comment

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