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  1. #1001
    C/S EUFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Insert generic comment about parachuting with copious mentions of "the don" to boost your case for a Cessna caravan.
    Can you please let me know what junk you have being Smoking?

  2. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Can you please let me know what junk you have being Smoking?
    No junk. I was referring to some of the conjecture I've read here regarding the debate between the caravan and PC-12.

    I happen to think the PC-12, if chosen, will be a pretty good choice in the long run.

  3. #1003
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    Any news on the completion of the RFT process, or how it's going?

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  5. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    Any news on the completion of the RFT process, or how it's going?
    I doubt those who are privvy to the ongoing tender process are going to be sharing sensitive commercial information in the public domain at this stage.

    The best you'll do is have someone post about a visiting aircraft but seeing as a Caravan/PC-12/TBM have all been in Baldonnel in the last 12-18 months, its unlikely any of them will visit again.

  6. #1005
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    I was told in no uncertain terms [not from Bal'] that it's the PC-12, time will tell....
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

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  8. #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey View Post
    I was told in no uncertain terms [not from Bal'] that it's the PC-12, time will tell....
    Considering the published tender spec it can't be anything else.

  9. #1007
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    Make no mistake, this is a coronation not a competition.

    What damage writing such a tight spec has done to value for money we will never know.

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  11. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    What damage writing such a tight spec has done to value for money we will never know.
    Straight from the sales brochure..

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  13. #1009
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    Not for the first time either
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  15. #1010
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    I have been thinking (dangerous, I know!)

    We currently have

    3 Cessnas
    2 MPA
    1 Learjet

    that are all up for replacement soonish

    Why don't we go for a single type fleeet?

    5 Piaggio MPA that are basically quite capable ISTAR birds
    1 Piaggio Avanti EVO as ministerial transport

    and join EATC for the odd transport and flying ambulance need? Make the Avanati available for it.

    This would give us a versatile fleet of MPA/ISTAR a/c and a single type fleet. Bang per buck would be much increased.
    Last edited by Graylion; 7th September 2017 at 11:59.

  16. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    I have been thinking (dangerous, I know!)
    We currently have
    3 Cessnas
    2 MPA
    1 Learjet
    that are all up for replacement soonish
    Why don't we go for a single type fleeet?
    5 Piaggio MPA that are basically quite capable ISTAR birds
    1 Piaggio Avanti EVO as ministerial transport
    and join EATC for the odd transport and flying ambulance need? Make the Avanati available for it.
    This would give us a versatile fleet of MPA/ISTAR a/c and a single type fleet. Bang per buck would be much increased.
    It's too late for thinking! the white paper will hamstring the AC for the next 20 years..

    The Future is 3 PC-12
    2 MPA(C-295)
    1 LR-45

    Eh thats it...

  17. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie252 View Post
    It's too late for thinking! the white paper will hamstring the AC for the next 20 years..

    The Future is 3 PC-12
    2 MPA(C-295)
    1 LR-45

    Eh thats it...

    Read it again

    The CASA and Cessna replacements will be much more capable

  18. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Read it again

    The CASA and Cessna replacements will be much more capable
    so is a 2017 car vs a 2001 one. It is all very incremental and jumping way too short.

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  20. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    so is a 2017 car vs a 2001 one. It is all very incremental and jumping way too short.
    Not when going from a transit connect to a rigid truck

    Or from 1970 mini to a 2017 transit

    With regard to the Cessna replacement read the specs on this thread.

    Going from a 1970 4 seater (with mark 1 eyeball) to a modern about 11 seater, capable of taking a stretcher and a significant sensor package
    Last edited by DeV; 7th September 2017 at 14:38.

  21. #1015
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    Are they purchasing the significant sensor package??

    Budget would say otherwise

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  23. #1016
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    FFBNW is a byword in all purchases we make these days ... "this is what id like, but heres what I can afford"
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  24. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie252 View Post
    It's too late for thinking! the white paper will hamstring the AC for the next 20 years..

    The Future is 3 PC-12
    2 MPA(C-295)
    1 LR-45

    Eh thats it...
    Think I said it before on here that it is planned to replace the Casa's with three aircraft.
    The DFHQ has long since sent the White Paper to the recycling center. It was obsolete before the ink was dry.

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  26. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    Think I said it before on here that it is planned to replace the Casa's with three aircraft.
    The DFHQ has long since sent the White Paper to the recycling center. It was obsolete before the ink was dry.
    Fingers crossed some new thinking will change trajectory.. my fear, as I have said before, is that is an effort to "replace" the CN-235 and maintain the focus on the Fishery Protection role the new aircraft, whatever the number, will be a "Jack of all trades" but Master of None and in effect only Incrementally improve the capability of the AC.

    These internal discussions with regards to Mission Sets will lead to an Eventual New Aircraft, this decision will likely effect the next 25 years and therefore IMHO more of a leap Forward in capability should be considered.

    The question might be, will conventional airborne fisheries Protection as we currently see it be Valid in 10 or 20 years time.

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  28. #1019
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    You could see more FP done with UAVs/satellites/sensors than with humans flying aircraft, eyeballing at 300 feet. You could also see a future C295 (flavour of the month aircraft) purchase mutating into a pure turbine aircraft purchase, such as a KC 390 Marpat or you could see FP taken entirely out of the AC and devolved into a Coasties function......regarding PC-12s, if they do get them, then I'll bet one will be kept as standard as a Learjet back up and as a nominal "cargo/stretcher/ass and trash" hauler. The Don might get lucky and get to keep one of the blue Casas as a pure hauler/ para dropper/air ambulance, if they tear out the mission kit and keep it as a pure hauler.

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  30. #1020
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    I maintain that the Avanti MPA would be a considerable step up in capability for both MPA and ISTAR.

  31. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    I maintain that the Avanti MPA would be a considerable step up in capability for both MPA and ISTAR.
    There has been some downright idiotic procurement decisions taken over the years but that would have to rank near the very top if it came to fruition.

    You don't happen to work in the DoD do you?

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  33. #1022
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    A drawing on paper is not a step up in capability and it's not a PC12
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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  35. #1023
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    The Kingair is in service with serious air forces in the ISTAR role..
    Also makes a credible Fisheries Protection Aircraft..

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  37. #1024
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    I've mentioned the king air a few time in this thread, it'd be a far better aircraft but it's not swiss
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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  39. #1025
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    I've mentioned the king air a few time in this thread, it'd be a far better aircraft but it's not swiss
    A King Air would be a vastly superior aircraft.

    The only other military operator that places an ISTAR Pc12 in harm's way has CSAR options that can only be dreamed of here.

    Buying single engine aircraft with a view to deploying them overseas is beyond foolhardy. Writing a tender document that favours only one aircraft is just crazy.

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