Cessna Replacement - The Options

[The real Jack]

If it were my decision the tender requirements would just read HH-60 Seahawk..

You could even bundle the sale of the 139s, their tooling, spares and flight sim as a trade in

[danno]

'Has to be twin engines....

Twin engines unavoidable, strict doctrine/practice.

[Turkey]

I would get rid of the 139's and (possibly) the ec 135's in favour of a fleet of HH-60'S, say 10, there would be savings in the future, with a restricted spares list amongst other things, and we would have a proper local airlift capacity.

[DeV]

I raised twin engines as a must on a Cessna replacement many times and was shot down

[GoneToTheCanner]

@graylion, wait until they reach the Mk. 10 ahrlac before letting the Don buy it. The Don suffered before from buying the Mk. 1 of a helicopter and the Don has always suffered from messing with off-the shelf models. The best aircraft they ever had were those that had the least modding done to them, the Alouette, the Cessna and the King Airs...Let them buy an established aircraft, with a good reputation and a good spares back-up and then hang whatever they need out of it. Textron have talked about adding another single-turbine aircraft, bred from Cessna and Beechcraft, to their line up, as a possible King Air and Caravan replacement and to fight off the PC 12. Might be interesting, especially if it has a surveillance ability from day one and it would have an established worldwide network of spares and technical services.

[Graylion]

I would get rid of the 139's and (possibly) the ec 135's in favour of a fleet of HH-60'S, say 10, there would be savings in the future, with a restricted spares list amongst other things, and we would have a proper local airlift capacity.

Hold a tender like the Poles and why HH-60s? Caracal or AW 149 I'd say. But keep the EC135s - flying an 8t helo when you can fly a 2t one is too expensive. Standardisation is not all that important for a small military - economies of scale kick in much later.

[Sparky42]

Hold a tender like the Poles and why HH-60s? Caracal or AW 149 I'd say. But keep the EC135s - flying an 8t helo when you can fly a 2t one is too expensive. Standardisation is not all that important for a small military - economies of scale kick in much later.

Does anyone have the 149 in military service? Do we really want to be a first user if not?

[DeV]

Standardisation is not all that important for a small military - economies of scale kick in much later.

As is we could operate small numbers of multiple aircraft types?

[na grohmiti]

Hold a tender like the Poles and why HH-60s? Caracal or AW 149 I'd say. But keep the EC135s - flying an 8t helo when you can fly a 2t one is too expensive. Standardisation is not all that important for a small military - economies of scale kick in much later.

Been there, done that. Once operated 5 Heli types (Gazelle, AIII, Dauphin, S61, Garda Squirrel)with a total of 16 aircraft. It made no sense and all the experts said we need to standardise. To operate multiple types you need to have all your staff trained to maintain and operate these multiple types too. It is BAD PRACTICE.

[DeV]

Been there, done that. Once operated 5 Heli types (Gazelle, AIII, Dauphin, S61, Garda Squirrel)with a total of 16 aircraft. It made no sense and all the experts said we need to standardise. To operate multiple types you need to have all your staff trained to maintain and operate these multiple types too. It is BAD PRACTICE.

+1

Disliked in error

It makes pilot and tech rostering much harder

It also means lower redundancy and costs more

[Turkey]

Why the HH-60, it's like army toilet paper, it's tough and mean, and takes no shit. But it's also reliable, has a good reputation, and all the work for adoption has already been done, ya just buy the bits and bolt them on, it's a blackhawk only better, the crusty element are too dumb to put two and two together, and remember, most importantly, shortly after the Tramore disaster, one (Blackawk)rolled almost a kilometer down a hill in Colorado and there were no fatalities..

[Turkey]

One other point, sooner or later, we are going to need to put helicopters back on ships, while I believe the NS should get to own and operate their own machines, there should be some kind of common base line, the HH-60 gives that, this mythical mine hunting and submarine detecting will require helicopters I think, as for an EPV, helicopters are a must have, boats are great and have many uses, but they are soooo 19th century.

[Graylion]

I admit to a solid dislike of not buying European. I agree on the ASW issue needing choppers. And I'd say standardise on 2. Light and heavy.

AW 149 is not yet in use, so yes we'd.be pilot. So maybe not. Caracal is a.different kettle of whirlybird though. Puma has been around even longer than *hawk. Buy that, stick the ASW suite of NH90 on it if / when needed. Keep EC 135

[GoneToTheCanner]

this is to replace Cessnas, remember. The nine cadets commissioned the other day will go onto Cessnas to do a bit of growing up and in time, will graduate to bigger aircraft. By the time a Cessna replacement reaches the Don, some of the nine will have gone to the airlines and the techs that graduated in the same year will be doing the same, so their human replacements will need another Cessna to do their growing up on...Buying a helicopter to do the Cessna jobs, including all the dull, boring, unglamourous ones would cost a fortune and would give you less airframes at much higher operational cost. Even a turbine Caravan is cheaper to operate than any helicopter, bar an R44.

[DeV]

Also remember there is still a need for a multi engine trainer.

Therefore in future newly commissioned officers could be hour building as P2s