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  1. #1201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey View Post
    Hate to say I told you do, I feel an opportunity was lost here, but at least it's done..
    Care to explain why? What opportunity was lost?

    The AC appear to have secured 3 very capable aircraft with a fairly serious investment which is double what was originally proposed?

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  3. #1202
    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    I would be interested where they got the figure of 416m for capital spending between 2018 and 2021

  4. #1203
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Not unless we get about 40 more aircraft in the meantime. I think we are still in the 270s.
    Great news, finally bringing the Air Corps 100% in to the turbine age.
    Look at the photo, it is what they put on the model, it could be that it is because we are ordering 3 aircraft, and it would be a gap of 55 (most likely F35s).

  5. #1204
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    First for delivery early 2019, 2nd later in 2019 and 3rd in 2020

  6. #1205
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  8. #1206
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    I would be interested where they got the figure of 416m for capital spending between 2018 and 2021
    Thought that was announced round budget time for the projected funds coming available (which the Casa's and EPV will use up)?

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  10. #1207
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    First for delivery early 2019, 2nd later in 2019 and 3rd in 2020
    The usual urgency, I see....
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

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  12. #1208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Care to explain why? What opportunity was lost?

    The AC appear to have secured 3 very capable aircraft with a fairly serious investment which is double what was originally proposed?
    Capable of what exactly? anything expensive or ''warry'' for them won't be bought, and they will never be allowed out of gliding range of land, because the sniveling serpents would have a fit if their paint gets scratched, much less end up with a dip in the ditch, they don't facilitate twin training, about the only thing they add is a slightly more reasonable parachute capability, which could have been got buying a old Anatov, for about €25000.... Apart from that, their fine.
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

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  14. #1209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey View Post
    The usual urgency, I see....
    its not bad - theres no point having them, and paying the interest on their purchace, if your people, infrastructure and doctrine aren't ready for them - it will also depend on what fit you're going to get them in and what the lead times are for specific bits of gear and how long it will take your people to get trained up.

    i still think its an utterly demented purchace...

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  16. #1210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey View Post
    The usual urgency, I see....
    Was in the tender documents. I doubt these type of aircraft are make to stock

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey View Post
    Capable of what exactly? anything expensive or ''warry'' for them won't be bought, and they will never be allowed out of gliding range of land, because the sniveling serpents would have a fit if their paint gets scratched, much less end up with a dip in the ditch, they don't facilitate twin training, about the only thing they add is a slightly more reasonable parachute capability, which could have been got buying a old Anatov, for about €25000.... Apart from that, their fine.
    Each will be a hell of a lot more capable that 2 Cessnas carry a pair of Binos and max 3 pax

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  18. #1211
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    the fit is probably cream leather and sound proofing with an on board toilet and fridge.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  19. #1212
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    na grohmiti, there was more structural and engine damage done carrying out all the Cash Escort missions over the years, high engine power settings, low airspeeds with flaps extended caused a lot of vibration and wear and tear, not the use Cessna's were designed for. The target towing wasnt that bad, other than possible bad shooting by the ADR's

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  21. #1213
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    Nice overview of the aircraft. Pilots seem to like it.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  23. #1214
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    JM Kheogh on newstalk breakfast just now trying to enlighten the masses on the pc12 and other hardware. the guy is an embarrassment to his position and an insult to the people who serve in ONH

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  25. #1215
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    As for Paul Williams - he asked were the 3 new aircraft also proposed to be used for maritime surveillance - and were they a replacement for the cessna AND the casa also - i think (and hope) that the minister missed that bit about the casa as he replied "yes absolutely"

    Also he mentioned 24 new armoured light vehicles will be procured???

    When asked is there a personnel shortage and business knowledge drain crisis, he also stated that the GOCAC and COS had reassured him that there are no problems, therefore he believes that there are no problems, he has increased the cadet class sizes etc. yet there's a requirement for around 106 pilots (Open to correction) and only 70 odd pilots serving? 8 ATC's needed, 4 serving? 100 technician places open (is what ive heard said) and the GOCAC thinks that this isn't a problem?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  27. #1216
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    Also he mentioned 24 new armoured light vehicles will be procured???
    That would be the 4x4 Armoured Utility Vehicles to fill the gap between soft skin Pajero and LTAV.
    The contract was awarded but that company went bankrupt or something.

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  29. #1217
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post

    When asked is there a personnel shortage and business knowledge drain crisis, he also stated that the GOCAC and COS had reassured him that there are no problems, therefore he believes that there are no problems, he has increased the cadet class sizes etc. yet there's a requirement for around 106 pilots (Open to correction) and only 70 odd pilots serving? 8 ATC's needed, 4 serving? 100 technician places open (is what ive heard said) and the GOCAC thinks that this isn't a problem?
    Hence the complete an utter disconnect between troops and anyone above LtCol

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  31. #1218
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    Hence the complete an utter disconnect between troops and anyone above LtCol

    Colonels are well aware

  32. #1219
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    Hence the complete an utter disconnect between troops and anyone above LtCol
    i promise you that there is a very marked difference between what people know to be true, and what they are ordered to say, or ordered to not contradict someone else who reports that they have made particular remarks.

    of course, what the Irish military lacks - to its unending suffering - is a leaks culture. over the water its considered a career foul to have not seriously embarrassed a minister by leaking/unautherised briefing something that completely contradicts something a minister has said, preferably in parliament...

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  34. #1220
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    But the difference, ropebag, is that in the UK, in political and military life, the tradition of falling upon one's sword exists, whereas in Ireland, no-one is to blame for anything. Ministers can piss away money on vanity projects and will not be expected to resign or lose their pensions/office/parliamentary seat. In the UK, every man and woman who enters politics or the military knows that his or her career has the potential to end in disgrace, whereas over here, you can get away with quite a lot.....pissing a few bob away on Defence never hurt anyone.

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  36. #1221
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    But the difference, ropebag, is that in the UK, in political and military life, the tradition of falling upon one's sword exists, whereas in Ireland, no-one is to blame for anything. Ministers can piss away money on vanity projects and will not be expected to resign or lose their pensions/office/parliamentary seat. In the UK, every man and woman who enters politics or the military knows that his or her career has the potential to end in disgrace, whereas over here, you can get away with quite a lot.....pissing a few bob away on Defence never hurt anyone.
    You could be right because according to kheogh, the p64 is only costing 40m he thinks, but he doesnt really know for sure!!!!

  37. #1222
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    Heard the interview. Keogh reminded me of someone after being on the lash the night before and was trying to remember the details of how they got home. Fair play to Williams he asked him awkward if not fully understood questions.

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  39. #1223
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    But the difference, ropebag, is that in the UK, in political and military life, the tradition of falling upon one's sword exists, whereas in Ireland, no-one is to blame for anything. Ministers can piss away money on vanity projects and will not be expected to resign or lose their pensions/office/parliamentary seat. In the UK, every man and woman who enters politics or the military knows that his or her career has the potential to end in disgrace, whereas over here, you can get away with quite a lot.....pissing a few bob away on Defence never hurt anyone.
    We get what we deserve!

    How often was Haughey re-elected ?

    How often was Bertie re-elected ?

    The connection - the grey vote

    Will only ever vote Fianna Fail and won’t vote for any other party. Rewarded with old age pension increases

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  41. #1224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    That would be the 4x4 Armoured Utility Vehicles to fill the gap between soft skin Pajero and LTAV.
    The contract was awarded but that company went bankrupt or something.
    Toyota landcruisers. New company selected to fit them out.First 6 already delivered.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  43. #1225
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    i promise you that there is a very marked difference between what people know to be true, and what they are ordered to say, or ordered to not contradict someone else who reports that they have made particular remarks.

    of course, what the Irish military lacks - to its unending suffering - is a leaks culture. over the water its considered a career foul to have not seriously embarrassed a minister by leaking/unautherised briefing something that completely contradicts something a minister has said, preferably in parliament...
    Whistleblowers and people who leak info have not been treated very well by the political establishment in Ireland. Just look at Air Corps. Not even people dying with serious illness caused by chemicals is phasing government ministers

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