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Cessna Replacement - The Options

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  • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
    You've lost me here!
    Don't know myself!! Deleted

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    • meant to be aerial instead of burial, i suspect.

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      • Cessna replacement was supposed to go to tender early this year.

        Maybe the delay is that they are looking at a single engine instead of twin
        Last edited by DeV; 12 September 2016, 12:13.

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        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
          Cessna replacement was supposed to go to tender early this year.

          Maybe the delay is that they are looking at a single engine instead of twin
          Was a twin mooted anywhere but here?

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          • Originally posted by pym View Post
            Was a twin mooted anywhere but here?
            Well the AC is on the record in publicly available documents that single engine a/c over urban areas is risky

            Then of course there are documents that aren't publicly available which can't be discussed but .....

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            • It isn't really about 2 engines or 1. It's about having two engines, while only needing 1.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                Well the AC is on the record in publicly available documents that single engine a/c over urban areas is risky

                Then of course there are documents that aren't publicly available which can't be discussed but .....
                In the context of planes or helicopters?

                It's just that the only aircraft I'm aware of visiting Bal in relation to this contract are single engined.

                There would be nothing to stop the tender leaving it open to twin or single and giving extra points for twin safety and a deduction for increased maintenance costs.

                You seem to have been the one going on consistently about twins, and it might still wind up being the case, but I've seen nothing else pointing in that direction.

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                • Originally posted by pym View Post
                  In the context of planes or helicopters?

                  It's just that the only aircraft I'm aware of visiting Bal in relation to this contract are single engined.
                  tender hasn't been published so they are probably unsolicited speculative flights

                  There would be nothing to stop the tender leaving it open to twin or single and giving extra points for twin safety and a deduction for increased maintenance costs.
                  depends on the tender

                  You seem to have been the one going on consistently about twins, and it might still wind up being the case, but I've seen nothing else pointing in that direction.
                  notice what I've bolder

                  I'm not saying it is a forgone conclusion but ......

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                  • Sorry Dev, I'm trying to work out what exactly you are saying.

                    Surely not that your previous talk about a twin type was based on restricted, opsec info, which has since changed right?

                    For a guy whos catchphrase is basically "not in the White Paper", the whispers seem a bit odd given that the WP is too vague to even say the number of engines.
                    Last edited by pym; 12 September 2016, 19:25.

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                    • Originally posted by pym View Post
                      Sorry Dev, I'm trying to work out what exactly you are saying.

                      Surely not that your previous talk about a twin type was based on restricted, opsec info, which has since changed right?

                      For a guy whos catchphrase is basically "not in the White Paper", the whispers seem a bit odd given that the WP is too vague to even say the number of engines.
                      I can't say

                      Things could have changed of course

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                      • that phrase about single engines a/c over urban areas is ass-covering, nothing more, so that if a Cessna 172 coughs and falls on Mullingar or Tallaght, they can say "I told you so...shudda bought us a King Air". You will notice that they have had no problem operating the PC-9 over urban areas, such as the four-ship over Donnybrook lately, when it suits them , and like they did with the Marchettis for many years. Years ago, when they wanted to replace the Vampires, they bet themselves into a corner on the two-engined thing and ended up with Fougas, when what they really wanted was Alpha Jets or 326s. I'll bet there's lots of infighting going on about what the DoD is willing to fund versus what the Don would like, with a nod on costs to the DoF. You'll also have the Heli types wanting more rotary airframes for Army co-op/EMS/runabout/Garda/ISTAR versus the fixed wing people wanting a twin trainer/ISTAR platform/cargo boat/para dropper/jack of all trades and all the while, the clock is ticking on the Casas, which will suck up funds like a Hoover, so I'll bet the Don is anxious to get these hulls confirmed on paper, before advancing to contact on the Casa replacement.

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                        • GTTC,

                          Have you got any more definite info on how the fougas came to be chosen? Was there any tender/expressions of interest/selection board procedure? I know Alpha jets and Macchis visited the Don at the time, was a costed offer ever made by the manufacturers? Presumably even if there was, and then Aerospatiale made an offer of refurbished fougas at a fraction of the price of the other two, the £££ was the only criteria that was going to matter?

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                          • Radu Brinzan's book about the Fouga has a lot of detail about the actual purchasing and subsequent introduction to service of them. Suffice to say, they were bought for what seemed like small money and were subsequently modded by Lingus for the addition of VOR and ILS recievers, which were not fitted to standard Fougas. The cost of Alphas and 326s were considered by DoD to be too expensive, despite them being much more capable aircraft and not obsolescent, like the Fouga was.

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                            • Originally posted by Tempest View Post
                              Have you got any more definite info on how the fougas came to be chosen? Was there any tender/expressions of interest/selection board procedure? I know Alpha jets and Macchis visited the Don at the time, was a costed offer ever made by the manufacturers? Presumably even if there was, and then Aerospatiale made an offer of refurbished fougas at a fraction of the price of the other two, the £££ was the only criteria that was going to matter?

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                              • I see over in the nautical section that steel has been laid on yet another NS replacement vessel. While this is great in itself maybe it's impacting on the DoD's ability to replace the Cessna fleet in that there's simply no money available and it's not just sheer incompetence after all.....?

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