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  1. #1051
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    How far is DF Cav doctrine/practice away from the UK BRF system?

    what - broadly - is the doctrine and force composition that its supposed to work within: is it granular/scalable so you could have a Cav Troop working in an Inf Coy Group right up to a Cav Regiment/Bn working within an All Arms Bde formation, or is it all a bit more clunky than that?

    is one of the problems that the Cav is supposed to be both creepy Forward Reece and Heavy Metal Fire Support, but with neither the people nor the gear for either?

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  3. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    How far is DF Cav doctrine/practice away from the UK BRF system?

    what - broadly - is the doctrine and force composition that its supposed to work within: is it granular/scalable so you could have a Cav Troop working in an Inf Coy Group right up to a Cav Regiment/Bn working within an All Arms Bde formation, or is it all a bit more clunky than that?

    is one of the problems that the Cav is supposed to be both creepy Forward Reece and Heavy Metal Fire Support, but with neither the people nor the gear for either?
    There is only 1 x Sqn per Inf Bde so we tend to have 1 x Tp per Bn for recce / screen type tasks
    Last edited by Fantasia; 2nd March 2018 at 09:34.

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  5. #1053
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    Also it is part of a light inf all arms Bde, although the doctrine is there for it to be a Mech Inf Bde

  6. #1054
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    is one of the problems that the Cav is supposed to be both creepy Forward Reece and Heavy Metal Fire Support, but with neither the people nor the gear for either?
    Just about hit nail on head
    Time for another break I think......

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  8. #1055
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    I think people here are mixing up the difference between armoured cav and mechanised cav.

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  10. #1056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    I think people here are mixing up the difference between armoured cav and mechanised cav.
    Blank sheet of paper surely?

    Firstly you need to decide what do you want to achieve - then you decide how you're going to achieve it.

    It looks to me like theirs lots of titles and different concepts of operations, but all using the same assets at the same time and not a huge amount of 'big picture' what-am-i-here-for? thinking...

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  12. #1057
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    We dont have armoured cav, we have mechanised cav so there cannot be any confusion

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  14. #1058
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    We had one squadron of armoured cav. With the demise of the Scorpions, not sure what became of that.
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  15. #1059
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    We have a Sqn that is or was called Armoured Cav but in reality they were not real armoured vehicles. In my mind at least, you need MBTs to be classed as real armoured recce. Both provide you with 4 key charcteristics and they are all a play off on each other: protection, firepower, mobility, communications.

    Armoured cav had advantages but also drawbacks over mech cav: speed is compromised for off road mobility, armour is bloody heavy and needs routes capable of carrying 50T vs 18T, a 120mm cannon provides a lot of firepower against hard targets but is useless against infantry in the open, MBTs are vulnerable and need a lot of protection from infantry.

    For our purposes and doctrine, Mech Cav is more than sufficient

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  17. #1060
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    Ok a MBT isn’t armoured recce it is heavy armour (found in a UK Armoured Regt or a US Armoured Bn (although they do a combined Armour/Armd Inf Bn). It can be used for recce yes (as can a Nissan Patrol).

    In the UK, a Armd Recce Regt is equipped with Scimitar (Ajax in the future), in the US they are equipped with Styker (not 100% sure some may have Bradley).

    The UK also have Light Cav Regts equipped with Jackal (there maybe some US ones with HUMVVS).

    The armour on our MOWAGs is not in the public domain but it would be at least similar to the CRV(T).

    1ACS have MRVs (and I think CRVs and LTAVs).

    due to our light infantry ORBAT (with some Mech Inf capability), the Cav (with their firepower, protection, etc capabilities) can be used to “beef up” an operation if necessary as a kind of mobile FSG, fire brigade, Bde reserve..... but that isn’t by design or intent
    Last edited by DeV; 3rd March 2018 at 12:16.

  18. #1061
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    1 ACS doesn't "HAVE" MRVs. Every cav unit has them, as required. We have 6. (Per Wiki). We also have 18 CRVs. Sometimes they are in Cork, sometimes they are in Dublin, sometimes they are in DFTC.
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  19. #1062
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    Any idiot that puts their cav in the reserve has absolutely no idea what they are talking about!

    I will go out on a limb here and say that most people here are completely unaware of DF doctine beyond Pl level. Some of us do. Interpret that as you will

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  21. #1063
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    Any idiot that puts their cav in the reserve has absolutely no idea what they are talking about!

    I will go out on a limb here and say that most people here are completely unaware of DF doctine beyond Pl level. Some of us do. Interpret that as you will
    Did I say it was doctrine

  22. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Did I say it was doctrine
    no, instead you again highlighted that you just make this stuff up as you go along.

    I wont be responding again as I will not be able to restrain myself from getting personal

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  24. #1065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    no, instead you again highlighted that you just make this stuff up as you go along.

    I wont be responding again as I will not be able to restrain myself from getting personal
    Made up like MBTs being Armd Recce

    You also ignored the last part of my post
    Last edited by DeV; 3rd March 2018 at 21:38.

  25. #1066
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    Last one ....

    You have assumed recce to be an offensive posture. There is defensive recce which comes in the form of Bn Screens, Bde Guards and Division Covering Forces. A guard and a covering force are pretty large, made up of Coy (+) and Bn (+) sized forces respectively with armour being essential in both. For a covering force they also often require their own indirect fire support. A Div CF is usually at least a full Inf Bn supported with 1 x Armd Coy, 1 x Cav Sqn and Div Arty support and / or their own arty support depending on how far ahead they are operating.

    So yes, MBTs form an essential element in Armd Recce.

    Now I will not be responding again to someone that has zero concept of DF doctrine beyond possible infantry section level

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  27. #1067
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    the Cav (with their firepower, protection, etc capabilities) can be used to “beef up” an operation if necessary as a kind of mobile FSG, fire brigade, Bde reserve..... but that isn’t by design or intent
    You'll need to refer to the 'secondary taskings 'page in the book before committing them to reserve.

    Now I will not be responding again to someone that has zero concept of DF doctrine beyond possible infantry section leve
    But some of us do....given we wore the required head gear to do the job!
    Time for another break I think......

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  29. #1068
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    https://www.otokar.com/en-us/product...ents/cobra.pdf

    there ya go.. nice alternative LTAV with a four passenger capacity..
    Time for another break I think......

  30. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    https://www.otokar.com/en-us/product...ents/cobra.pdf

    there ya go.. nice alternative LTAV with a four passenger capacity..
    It is bloody ugly, though
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
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  32. #1070
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    Looks a bit like the offspring of a mating between a Timoney and a Unimog

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  34. #1071
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    This one may be more aesthetically pleasing https://www.otokar.com/en-us/product...s/cobra-ii.pdf

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  36. #1072
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    That looks a bit better! (I see it's an automatic - that means my missus could drive it!) Seriously, does an automatic gearbox give any advantages in vehicles of this type?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  37. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    That looks a bit better! (I see it's an automatic - that means my missus could drive it!) Seriously, does an automatic gearbox give any advantages in vehicles of this type?
    Not being mechanically minded enough to see how performance might be affected , the only plus I could see would be the reduction in drivers workload
    Time for another break I think......

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  39. #1074
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    Mowag is also automatic, allows the vehicle to creep forward at about 5km/h when required. Try that on a manual (without losing a clutch).
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  41. #1075
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