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Light Tactical Armoured Vehicle: Second attempt.

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  • well, you will be pleased to hear that the DF is not unique in this regard. The LUAS has French and Spanish built carriages that have wiring looms in different places so that when a tram is made up for daily use, it has to be all-French or all-Spanish or some of the wiring connections will not be able to be joined between carriages. For the LTAVs, you'd probably have to strip them right out at overhaul and set a baseline for the fleet so that they are all at Mod State 01, otherwise you are condemned to a cranky, ill-matched set up that annoys people.

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    • We should look at the Foxhound that the Royal Irish and other British light infantry regiments are using. They've bough hundreds of them and they've been designed based on lessons learned in Afghanistan. Who knows, PESCO could produce a new European MRAP we could get for cheap.

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      • For the LTAVs, you'd probably have to strip them right out at overhaul and set a baseline for the fleet so that they are all at Mod State 01, otherwise you are condemned to a cranky, ill-matched set up that annoys people.
        How the hell were they accepted in that condition and who is responsible?

        Full refurb has to be cheaper than replacement?
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          How the hell were they accepted in that condition and who is responsible?

          Full refurb has to be cheaper than replacement?
          27 Cars for the RDF Cav so :P
          What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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          • Originally posted by fmc96 View Post
            We should look at the Foxhound that the Royal Irish and other British light infantry regiments are using. They've bough hundreds of them and they've been designed based on lessons learned in Afghanistan. Who knows, PESCO could produce a new European MRAP we could get for cheap.
            Foxhound is a protected APC we need recce type vehicles.

            Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
            How the hell were they accepted in that condition and who is responsible?

            Full refurb has to be cheaper than replacement?
            New design or be it based on a successful one. The tender was very particular as to the requirements as well, probably bespoke to us

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            • We still have RDF Cav??????
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • Dont you know no-one is held accountable in the DF anymore, no matter how grave the offence or incompetence.

                Just look at all the recently released court-martials outcomes.

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                • Originally posted by ODIN View Post
                  27 Cars for the RDF Cav so :P
                  Are they cav vehicles? Thought some were for the drop shorts?
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                    Are they cav vehicles? Thought some were for the drop shorts?
                    Standard (infantry?)
                    ISR (Cav?)
                    STA (Arty)
                    CIS

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                    • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                      Are they cav vehicles? Thought some were for the drop shorts?
                      One for every one in the audience

                      The concept was originally to have a vehicle that would do the inserts for recce teams ( CTR) and to surplant the AML 60 in the recce role but every one else had an idea wanted a piece of the pie as well so they went looking for a compromise between an APC and a Light recce vehicle and came up with something that couldn't do what it was intended to do originally because it had the capacity as a light vehicle to carry what was a CTR group...and then someone said sure everyone needs something...and we can put it to some use........but.... the complement of crew etc was too small... and what should have been a light tactical vehicle turned into an over sized SUV...which never really did what anyone wanted!!

                      The original budget was for something between an AML 90 and a MOWAG APC... but someone blew it on Mowags...and the cav for a time had nothing other than AMLS....which were no use for the CTR role and the MOWAG was to big!
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • jack of all trades and master of none/one size fits all,etc,etc

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                        • Of course if the old D cav hadn't poached an Infantry tasking (Light role RECCE) in order have a role in the old PSO Bn organisation then none of this would be happening.
                          LTAV's were meant for the CS in a Mech Inf Coy. The Infantry RECCE Plns wanted something similar to the Wings SRV's and if Cav had stayed in their lane and stuck to MOUNTED medium RECCE then they probably would have had a better chance of getting a platform more suited to that role.

                          Now we have the current LTAV the biggest garage queen in the DF fleet. Only brought overseas because of MOU's with the UN(and the associated payments) and they never leave the camp.Unless they have a week of pre maintenance.
                          Last edited by apod; 21 February 2018, 20:18.
                          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                          • perhaps the maintenance system needs looking at, if they are so shit that they need that level of attention?! manpower? spares supply? new blood not being trained up? poor crew training?

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                            • Nothing wrong with the guys working on them. The cars are muck

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                              • and if Cav had stayed in their lane and stuck to MOUNTED medium RECCE then they probably would have had a better chance of getting a platform more suited to that role.
                                They couldn't as the AMLs were nearing end of life and some gravel agitator blew the budget allocated for a replacement on MOWAGS.( not a bad thing in hindsight.... but going back to the start MOWAG wasn't perfect either)

                                Without being able to diversify the Cavalry would have gone the way of the Dodo. The millions wasted on upgrading the AMLs with new engines and turrets and guns was just that...wasted. Even with the upgrades the performance and extras added by MOWAGs meant they were 20 years behind the curve.

                                So were were left with a corps with a task they couldn't couldn't provide the organic equipment for and some one had the brain wave of looking what was going on else where and decided...LTAV.. mine protected all singing and dancing.....but unproven and too small over weight, under powered, overpriced....but gucci looking on paper....hey presto.. give them to the cav and shut them up!!!

                                10 years earlier the Cav had looked at the VBL and said no... too small ...three man crew ..poor mans armoured car!......

                                But at this point the market focussed on Iraq and Afghanistan and what the Brits and Yanks were buying in things like Dingo , Mastiff etc... oh shit! we've just bought a shit load of MOWAGs, we can't be looking for big patrol vehicles..hey BAE have a mini one.... looks the part, well have some of that....

                                But its all ancient history and we've been discussing this for more than 10 years on this site alone.....

                                Don't go down the bespoke LTAV line... dare I say it remove the Corps from the equation and buy something simple that can be used by everyone ... but it must carry at least a 4 man compliment..plus crew. $ man vehicles inclusive of crew are too limited.
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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